ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[BlitzDrake]

Slightly off topic but how are the winners notified, via e-mail (seeing that not every DC member has a forum account to be contacted on)?

[rayden54]

Obviously winning the raffle is unwelcoming enough for newer players, given that most of last years newer players who won quit. Isn't it unwelcoming when you are a newer player to see your inbox fill up at an alarming rate, with PMs about your new prize, when you are still trying to get to know the game in general? I think this was probably a cause of some players quitting.

 

I'm not even going to argue with you any more. How can I prove you wrong? I think that not just me, but EVERY active player would gain from these changes, by giving EVERY active player a slightly better chance of winning.And, more prizes = more trading and lineage opportunities = more fun. (Of course I'm not saying prize winners shouldn't just breed for themselves, that is their right, but it is more likely that most won't.)

Players can always be ***s. The game should be fair. Either way, you presume far too much about what other people want. Yeah, it sucks if someone's inbox fills up with unsolicited requests, but that's annoying to anyone.

 

Everyone stands to gain EXCEPT the new players. That's the whole point. Only players who meet your standards have a right to win. Why not obligate them to breed 10 dragons a year or restrict the catching of CB Golds and Silvers to Gold Trophy holders while your at it?

 

Frankly I'm stunned this topic even exists. By the title I'd assumed you'd be concerned the raffle isn't fair to the people who don't use the forums (since the recipes are ridiculous).

[Dolphinsong]

Slightly off topic but how are the winners notified, via e-mail (seeing that not every DC member has a forum account to be contacted on)?

Yes, he will email the winners by the email listed on their accounts =)

[Fuzzbucket]

Slightly off topic but how are the winners notified, via e-mail (seeing that not every DC member has a forum account to be contacted on)?

You have to have an email attached to your scroll. That was where you did your cooking etc and that is where you will be emailed.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The gold trophy bit was not a serious suggestion.  I put the "crazy thinking ahead" there for a reason. x3  I know that it would be waaay to unpopular to ever be considered.

 

 

But I do think that bronze trophy is a reasonable limit.

 

According to my math [50 dragons divided by four dragons per batch [12.5 batches rounded up to 13 since it doesn't take less time to raise a half a batch], multiplied by 3 days to hatch each batch] it should take 39 days to get a bronze trophy if all the eggs hatched as soon as they could and were replaced immediately, but with no outside infusion of hatchlings or lower time eggs, assuming the final batch was frozen.  If they needed to get to adulthood 42 days.

 

So that's like a month and a third to get a bronze trophy with maximum raising efficiency without incubate, without any low-time eggs from the AP, and without outside infusions of hatchlings.

 

Since newbies rarely raise their early dragons efficiently [eggs dying through not knowing the ropes, eggs hatching at 1 day left, etc] let's say 3 months as a good time for a newbie without any guidance [ie not told to use fansites, not told that they should hatch right after they hit 4 days, etc] but who likes the site enough to keep trying.

 

Now let's go to the newbie whose attention is barely held by the site.  The kind of newbie who gets on often enough that they'll discover the xmas event [or remembers the site to check to see if it has an xmas event] and be interested enough in it to participate, but is also likely to get bored and quit, even with a shiny, super special dragon on their scroll, or at least not be breeding it every week to produce shiny super special dragon babies for the rest of us.  They are very unlikely to have been attentive enough to get enough views to avoid killing their eggs.  It is also unlikely that they would be getting on frequently enough to replace their eggs right after they hatch/die.  So they would have an extremely low success rate, and would likely not have a bronze trophy in 6 months, perhaps not even in a year.  [and that's if they still are even getting on at that point]  A time frame where an active player could have a silver, or perhaps even a gold trophy.

 

Basically limiting it to bronze trophy people limits it to the people who care enough about dragcave and like dragcave enough to put in the time it takes to get 50 dragons.  Yes, it is a little unfair to those who happen to join too close to the event to have a chance of getting a bronze trophy without a LOT of outside help [hatchling infusions], but the holiday dragon system is already unfair to anyone who doesn't have the maximum possible slots, since, especially with halloween, it limits the number of dragons they can raise.

YesyesyesyesYES.

 

I don't care if you win and don't breed.

I don't care if you win and get bored in a year and leave.

I don't care if you win and hide your prize from the world.

 

But I DO care if you don't care and leave as soon as you win. Up the odds of prizes going to people who'll really care about 'em. I very much doubt that it's coincidence alone that led to a 33% decrease in Tinsel visibility between the skill contest and the lotto contest. It's because they're being handed out to people who don't care about the game after a week.

 

(Actually, now I wonder: did the Tinsels that we never find simply DIE because they went to people who quit/were too new to have any idea what they were doing? ;___; )

Edited December 29, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Reidragon]

The really nice thing about DC is you get to do whatever you want with what's on your scroll, provided it's within the ToU. Adding all kinds of weird rules to who can and can't get a dragon because people feel like things need to be in distribution is stupid.

 

Even acting like there's some kind of social obligation for people with rare dragons to stick around and keep breeding them is sketchy, in my mind.

THIS!

 

Sums up my feelings pretty well.

 

Though PF13 I do see your point and I am not entirely against it.

[Coronaviridae]

Obviously winning the raffle is unwelcoming enough for newer players, given that most of last years newer players who won quit. Isn't it unwelcoming when you are a newer player to see your inbox fill up at an alarming rate, with PMs about your new prize, when you are still trying to get to know the game in general? I think this was probably a cause of some players quitting.

 

If, by your own admission, you were one of the people hassling the newer players for second-gen breedings--whether or not you'd characterize your interactions as "hassling"--then didn't you contribute to this problem?

 

Maybe the simpler solution is TJ sends a politely worded message along with the prize e-mail telling people not to post on the forums about having won a dragon until several months after the event, when everyone who didn't win one has had time to calm down.

 

I've been playing for two+ years and I know suddenly being pressured to breed my dragon BREED IT NOW SO EVERYONE CAN HAVE ONE would make me quit.

 

(Actually, now I wonder: did the Tinsels that we never find simply DIE because they went to people who quit/were too new to have any idea what they were doing? ;___; )

 

Why is it suddenly anybody else's business who received the prizes if they didn't say on the forums "hey I got one"?

 

This is hells of upsetting to me just contemplating it. There's very good reasons why people are allowed to hide their scrolls on DC--and why people have the option to never participate in the forums, ever, if they don't want to. Pretending we have some kind of obligation to go find every prize dragon and keep track of it, potentially against its owner's wishes, is verging on stalking behavior.

 

At this point if I get one of the new prize dragons I may just never breed it. Or deadline all its descendants when I start sending out eggs, so people can't trace it back to me.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Coronaviridae

[Fuzzbucket]

If I got a tin as a prize I would NOT be advertising the fact. I am aware of people who were harassed like mad to breed them.

 

Bad enough the PMs one gets about Hollies - and even metallics

[Reidragon]

If I got a tin as a prize I would NOT be advertising the fact. I am aware of people who were harassed like mad to breed them.

 

Bad enough the PMs one gets about Hollies - and even metallics

There would be a simple solution for that for me. I would put a notice in my sig and in my profile that any pms contacting me about breeding it would result in that person immediately being blacklisted :3

 

But then again I am used to being harassed I work in a place where everyday I get BOMBARDED by every question known to man both friendly and not >>

 

The largest zoo in Arizona LOL

Edited December 29, 2012 by Reidragon

[Pokemonfan13]

I also greatly support having lots more prizes given out. Even if 100 or 200 of the new dragons were given out they would still be massively rare compared to the population. But it would mean that if 1/3 of them are gone after a year it wouldn't matter as much. It also means that there would be less pressure on each of the winners [and fewer nasty PMs if they say "no" because there would be 99 or 199 other people to try instead of two dozen, and people ARE nasty about it]

Edited December 29, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[HeatherMarie]

Basically limiting it to bronze trophy people limits it to the people who care enough about dragcave and like dragcave enough to put in the time it takes to get 50 dragons. Yes, it is a little unfair to those who happen to join too close to the event to have a chance of getting a bronze trophy without a LOT of outside help [hatchling infusions], but the holiday dragon system is already unfair to anyone who doesn't have the maximum possible slots, since, especially with halloween, it limits the number of dragons they can raise.

Okay, so what about people who's scroll-goal is to collect 1 of every (available) species, before they do anything else with their scroll? It's a completely valid goal, and yet, with your "50 dragon limit", and many uncommons that have become close to rare, even a dedicated newbie wouldn't be able to reach your arbitrary limit.

[XiziX]

I don't care if you win and don't breed.

I don't care if you win and get bored in a year and leave.

I don't care if you win and hide your prize from the world.

 

But I DO care if you don't care and leave as soon as you win. Up the odds of prizes going to people who'll really care about 'em. I very much doubt that it's coincidence alone that led to a 33% decrease in Tinsel visibility between the skill contest and the lotto contest. It's because they're being handed out to people who don't care about the game after a week.

This. All of this. I would love for some change and re-thinking to be done.

[Coronaviridae]

I also greatly support having lots more prizes given out. Even if 100 or 200 of the new dragons were given out they would still be massively rare compared to the population. But it would mean that if 1/3 of them are gone after a year it wouldn't matter as much. It also means that there would be less pressure on each of the winners [and fewer nasty PMs if they say "no" because there would be 99 or 199 other people to try instead of two dozen, and people ARE nasty about it]

Honestly, I think this is the best solution if we're concerned about distribution of new dragons. It results in less pressure on individual players to play the way somebody else thinks they "should".

[PolarVortex]

I agree, the raffle should be the raffle the way it is. I don't really like it on the whole, either, but I think it's "fair" the way it is.

 

I'd also like to join the camp of there being more prize dragons! I'm sincerely hoping there will be more than 30 this year, since no number was given (fingers crossed). And frankly I also like the idea of giving them out to everyone who finishes the contest. There would still only be one CB per scroll per person who completed the task... that's still very limited for a dragon. I'm sure second gens would still be in high demand, even to people who already have a CB, to work on lineages and such.

 

I can understand the frustration, though. I've been around since 2008 and I'm still struggling to get some of the rarest rare things. But, while the idea of suddenly having something I could trade for CB metals or NDs etc is thrilling, I can see how it might suddenly make the game more boring. Like winning the lottery and having it actually ruin your life? But anyway.

 

So, yeah, my opinion, everyone should get a prize! Or, at least, a higher percentage of people winning. Even if half the participants won one that would be super! I like the idea of more people "winning" and also at the same time that the resulting prizes wouldn't be AS crazy-rare-valuable.

 

 

[HeatherMarie]

I would totally support an increase in the NUMBER of prize-dragons given out.

 

Frankly, I'm a little amazed that so many people are seriously talking about *excluding newbies* from raffles JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NEW. It's rude. And completely wrong.

[rayden54]

At this point if I get one of the new prize dragons I may just never breed it. Or deadline all its descendants when I start sending out eggs, so people can't trace it back to me.

That seems a bit harsh to the people who get its descendants (and have absolutely no idea who you are).

[Fuzzbucket]

There would be a simple solution for that for me. I would put a notice in my sig and in my profile that any pms contacting me about breeding it would result in that person immediately being blacklisted :3

 

But then again I am used to being harassed I work in a place where everyday I get BOMBARDED by every question known to man both friendly and not >>

 

The largest zoo in Arizona LOL

Why would they CARE ? (I have one person on ignore for persistent PMing even after I said I wouldn't breed for them (because of the way they ordered me to do it.) They then switched to emails and I had to block their address.

 

They are still here and PMing others. I know this

Edited December 29, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Pokemonfan13]

BTW, the ONLY way for a prize winner to keep from being found is to either have a different forum name from their scroll name or to hide their scroll name AND their scroll. I found most of the first tinsel winners by looking for the new eggs in the fansites.

[Coronaviridae]

That seems a bit harsh to the people who get its descendants (and have absolutely no idea who you are).

And having people stalking me or keeping track of what I'm doing with my prize isn't a little harsh to me?

[Pokemonfan13]

With a site like this, I think stalking is a bit inevitable unless you manage to stay completely hidden. [and that would mean no trading the eggs at ALL] And even then they'd stalk the dragon and the kids if they can't stalk you. x3

[Emeraldmay]

Surely newer players would have a disadvantage of winning because they might not even know that it was happening? I signed up on the 19th of December last year, had no clue there was any reason for the wreath icon on my scroll; so surely newer people would be less likely to win as they are less likely to know it's going on, therefore older players who know the game are more likely to win?

[Pokemonfan13]

The event is better announced in the site than it was. I don't think there was text drawing attention to it in the cave before like there is now.

[Reidragon]

Why would they CARE ? (I have one person on ignore for persistent PMing even after I said I wouldn't breed for them (because of the way they ordered me to do it.) They then switched to emails and I had to block their address.

 

They are still here and PMing others. I know this

True but as PF13 said it's almost impossible to stay totally hidden on this site :3

[Fuzzbucket]

Surely newer players would have a disadvantage of winning because they might not even know that it was happening? I signed up on the 19th of December last year, had no clue there was any reason for the wreath icon on my scroll; so surely newer people would be less likely to win as they are less likely to know it's going on, therefore older players who know the game are more likely to win?

More likely in that they may have taken part in the game. But if you had received an email telling you you HAD won, I bet you wouldn't have felt bad about it ? Someone suggested winning frightened new players off....

 

Pokemon - the idea of prevalent stalking is chilling; I would like to think it rarely happens. But if one didn't put one's egg in a fansite... Then again - I think I do have a complete list of them. But I have never PMd any of the owners... that would be SO tacky.

[Psykotika]

I can't help but notice, this point was made by someone arguing against changing the raffle system (I'm not naming any names, I'm not trying to call anyone out, I'd just like to use this common thread of thought to illustrate my point(s)):

A prize is not a prize if EVERYONE gets one. Prizes are supposed to be limited, to be earned. Not handed to everyone on a silver platter.

 

But yet the concept is:

New or old players should have EQUAL chances at any and all raffles every year, it is completly unfair to exempt ANYONE from events, this includes raffles.

 

However last year there was little to "earn", just sign on, click the story and get the raffle ticket, therefore the fundamental belief that anyone who got a prize last year did something to earn it is not really terribly persuasive. This year there was more to it, and I found that to be more satisfactory, the raffle tickets were a bit more "earned" this year.

However then there are the arguments that someone who has gone to the trouble of building up their scroll to bronze, silver, or gold trophy levels should not have any advantage over those who have not. But think about it, someone who has gone to these efforts has spent the time on here to get these trophy levels, are you saying that they haven't done anything to earn a slightly higher chance in the raffle? Any newbie can spend the same amount of time as an older player to get their trophy levels up and also have an increased chance at raffles in the future.

My suggestion then, is that the event be like this year's in the future, so that anyone wanting a chance to get into the raffle actually has to work at it (or, you know, EARN the raffle ticket - like going to the effort of buying a raffle ticket with money you've earned as in any normal raffle).

I would personally also like to see something small, like say, clicking on your trophy during the event gives you one (bronze) two (silver) or three (gold) additional raffle tickets, since, yannow, the player has proven they've that much dedication to the game (however some action would be required to activate it so older players who've abandoned the game don't wind up with tickets). A concept which is not actually unfair at all, since the older players have actually put in the time and effort into the game, which, any newbie can eventually also do (as I do not think these raffles will stop in the future?). Also, there were, as I recall, a fair number of red star recipes, many more than 3, as such, it would be a slight boost and not guarantee anything at all, whilst rewarding those who've stuck around the game so long.

 

(also, I'd gladly give up any claim to additional raffle tickets dependant on my scroll trophy level if this were implemented, so no, I'm not advocating it because I want a better chance)

Edited December 29, 2012 by Psykotika