ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

No. Thanks, but no. If there's anything I'd ask TJ out of this entire argument, it would be for better privacy for scrolls.

People can already entirely hide their scrolls and their username on their dragons, dunno how you can get much more privacy than that. <;;

[Pokemonfan13]

I can guarantee that a newbie who was bored with dragcave even before they got the prize and leaves a month after they win doesn't appreciate it... I know that not EVERY member who doesn't have a bronze trophy isn't like that, but among users who don't have the trophy the chances of hitting someone like that are infinitely higher.

 

It is a given that DC is a game that appeals to a rather low percentage of the population. It isn't "exciting", it doesn't have minigames, it doesn't have lots of activities to do with your "pets", so there is a high turnover rate of people who join thinking the site might be cool, and then realize how "boring" it is. So why not do something to keep those transients from taking something that is extremely valuable to the rest of us out of the breeding pool for good?

[Lythiaren]

QFT.

 

To the point people on the forums of are keeping lists of who has and hasn't bred their tinsels, so they can develop a profile of a well-behaved prize winner to support their argument that prizes should be restricted to <x> group.

 

No. Thanks, but no. If there's anything I'd ask TJ out of this entire argument, it would be for better privacy for scrolls.

Pretty much. You're a "good", "appreciative" owner (ie. well-behaved breeding slave) if you only breed your CB tinsel for "reasonable" (ie. extremely high value) trades or gifting to "deserving" (requirement: will not overbreed and dilute the value of the low generation) recipients.

 

It's kind of really disgusting. If I ever win a prize I'm just going to name it some variation of "lol trollin" and not breed it just to spite people who expect CB owners to be their servants.

 

It's my dragon

my scroll

my breeding rules

 

Suck it up and deal or cry moar.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Rally Vincent]

Ditto Angelic.  Apart from trading between other winners at first to collect some 2nd gens, if I won I would gift pretty much ALL of the offspring.  Why?  There's nothing I need any more except for new release IOUs.  And yet I support restricting the list of possible winners to those who have shown enough dedication to the site to get a bronze trophy.

A player who got 51 dragons over a span of three years (Bronze Trophy, halleluja) is more dedicated then a new player who got 49 dragons in 40 days sincehe joined (no Bronze Trophy, go to hell), then? Because his trophy says so?

Edited December 29, 2012 by Rally Vincent

[LadyLyzar]

Guys, guys, guys! There's no need to be snippy with each other.

 

The fact of the matter is everyone is going to like different things about the holiday events. I'm just happy that we even HAVE prize dragons.

 

However, for any dragon, from the rarest CB Prize to the most common egg on the site, the following is always true:

 

It belongs to the scroll owner.

 

As such, it is their business what they do with their dragon. No one is entitled to any offspring from it, regardless of how much you would like to have it. If they choose to never breed it, that is entirely their decision.

 

In the case of the CB prize raffle. they won it fair and square. They had the same chance as anyone else. There is no risk of favoritism, etc.

 

I will be very honest - keeping breeding lists for my alts is a giant pain in the butt. I cannot imagine how much of a pain it must be for a CB Prize.

 

If the nastiness in this thread continues, it will be closed.

Edited December 29, 2012 by LadyLyzar

[Sturmschwinge]

Pretty much. You're a "good", "appreciative" owner (ie. well-behaved breeding slave) if you only breed your CB tinsel for "reasonable" (ie. extremely high value) trades or gifting to "deserving" (requirement: will not overbreed and dilute the value of the low generation) recipients.

 

It's kind of really disgusting. If I ever win a prize I'm just going to name it some variation of "lol trollin" and not breed it just to spite people who expect CB owners to be their servants. Screw that it's my dragon, my scroll, my breeding rules.

If I win (which I doubt) I will do one trade (for a holly) and then breed as often I can and release every egg to the AP.

[schmupti]

if someone shows up on your local sports, say tennis club, to play a round.

would you consider him a member or not? If he then goes with you to the xmas-party afterwards and demands to be in the members-only raffle, what would happen?

 

most clubs have tryouts or trial phases, i see bronze trophy on dc as the same, since you just cannot say, "paid an entry fee" on a free site.

 

admission has to be earned to almost every club or community in the world, with the exception being really public places, that are not common at all. Or you have to pay entry fees to get in.

DC is not an exclusive club. Prizes are not being offered to an exclusive club within DC.

 

As comparisons go, this is more like showing up to a streetfair and part of paying for your admission bracelet is that your name is entered into the raffle. Sure, you can get grumpy that you showed up at 9am and stayed all day and made the most of your admission, while this guy bought a bracelet at 4:45pm just to come in and look for his friend and yet he won, but he bought his bracelet same as you.

[Coronaviridae]

So why not do something to keep those transients from taking something that is extremely valuable to the rest of us out of the breeding pool for good?

 

Because that "something" doesn't belong to you and never did in the first place. Dragons a user catches or receives are theirs to do with what they wish once those dragons are on their scroll. They are not held in trust for the community to be baby-machines so everyone gets one.

 

Just because I have a (CB black, a silver, a gold, a holiday dragon) and you want its offspring does not obligate me to give you those offspring. It is not any different for a prize dragon. You may place a high value on them, but that doesn't mean they're yours. You may determine you'll give away any things that you breed, but that doesn't mean I or anyone else needs to do the same thing.

 

To construct an analogous scenario: Suppose that you could click a button to have your dragons automatically breed, based on rarity, whenever your scroll had open slots. Any uncommon or rare thus produced would automatically be abandoned so everyone else on the site had "more of a chance" at that dragon.

 

Suppose once you click that button, you can't turn it off. Would you be okay with that?

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Lythiaren]

If I win (which I doubt) I will do one trade (for a holly) and then breed as often I can and release every egg to the AP.

And the best part is we'd be able to coexist happily.

[Psykotika]

I am definitely not for excluding people from raffles based on how new they are, how many dragons they have, how many eggs they've killed, etc. It's a Christmas raffle after all and that's not really in the Christmas spirit.

 

What I would be all for, however, is an opportunity for people (anyone who wants to) to up their chances of winning by earning more raffle tickets for themselves. Other than the events and things that would subsequently exclude certain people (eg. length of membership, total number of dragons) I don't really know what to suggest, but if anyone else had any suggestions I'd definitely like to hear them. I think a raffle is still fair if some people have a different chance than others, so long as everyone has the opportunity to put in the work to earn the increased chance. That way it's not actively excluding anyone, if that makes sense. It would be up to the individual to analyze how much they wanted it and whether the extra chance was worth the extra effort on their part.

 

The other thing I don't support is giving a prize dragon to everyone. I wouldn't mind an increased number of CB prize dragons awarded (if the prize dragons kept changing every year or two so they don't get too over populated). Like PF13 said, even if there were 100 given out, they'd still be very rare for quite a while.

 

But again, I wouldn't like to see any changes made that would exclude people for whatever reason from participating and having a chance to win as well.

Gaiz. Gaiz. Hey. hey gaiz. I'm advocating this. No one gets excluded. No one who wants a chance is denied a chance. Anyone who gets a chance has earned a chance. Why u all ignore?

[Pokemonfan13]

A player who got 51 dragons over a span of three years (Bronze Trophy, halleluja) is more dedicated then a new player who got 49 dragons in 40 days sincehe joined (no Bronze Trophy, go to hell), then? Because his trophy says so?

I know that it isn't fair to people who happen to join right before xmas but will become a dedicated member of the site [i've said so at least 3 times now], but what is the chance that that member would have won over the greater number of newbies who join, stay long enough to get the raffle tickets [with the more "fun" event game keeping there interest!] and then vanish?. And I honestly don't think your first example is very likely unless the person is extremely picky, since anyone who raises dragons that slowly is someone who DC is not holding their interest very well. x3

[Coronaviridae]

Gaiz. Gaiz. Hey. hey gaiz. I'm advocating this. No one gets excluded. No one who wants a chance is denied a chance. Anyone who gets a chance has earned a chance. Why u all ignore?

Because it's a reasonable suggestion and I'm more concerned with the people who are advocating prize dragons are somehow held in trust to make babies for the entire community.

 

NEWSFLASH: If everyone who won a prize dragon this year killed it, left the site, or refused to breed it, and TJ decided that he wanted more of them out there, he could award more. Maybe to people who ardently pledged they would breed them.

[Pokemonfan13]

Oh, but apparently it's really super easy despite that to figure out who an egg belongs to just by seeing it on a click site!

 

/sarc

Only if their scroll name is visible. If the scroll name is not visible and their scroll is hidden they are anonymous.

[Starscream]

my two credits. If, and its a fat chance, If I were to get a price I would love it to death.

 

If a player chooses to leave or not breed an egg is not anyone business but their own. Don't like it? too bad.

 

I would not breed it for just anyone. I sure as the day is long, not breed it for someone who PMs me. I may breed it for a trade, if I saw one I was interested in, or breed it as gifts to people who are special to me.

 

It would not be that I don't appreciate it. I just would not want the offspring going to just anyone. I sure as slag would not want to give out special dragons to people who would whine or judge others on their breeding habits.

 

 

As for Stormwizard's "eggs they killed" comment. People think eggs killed should reduce their chances?

 

I'm a vampire breeder. I kill hundreds of eggs in attempts to getting vampires. I do hope people do not think that because of this I do not deserve an equal chance at a raffle.

 

As I see it. the raffle is done as fair as it could be. roll over tickets would be unfair advantage. The wreath draw was a bit disappointing because those who lack artistic talent got the bad end of the stick As far as the raffle is concerned. this is good, it does not need fixing.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Starscream

[TheGrox]

My god, what have I started here? The amount of accusing and flaming at other players that the raffle (and this thread itself o.o) has caused is astonishing. I am surprised at how we can't even have a decent discussion without it turning into simply arguing and throwing accusations around.

 

I left for an hour and 5 extra pages of posts appeared o.O

 

I would firstly like to say that I would support a reasonable increase in the amount if prizes given out.

 

I would also like to point out that I am in no way in this for personal gain. Do not assume that I am. Are the people who support an increase in holiday limits doing it because they want a Holly hoard all to themselves? I think not. If I ever did win, I would gift most of the offspring of my prize to people who I thought should get it. I have everything I want and need, so why would I trade them for CB Metals?

 

Also, about the argument that it excludes newbies: this is why I suggested EXTRA entries for older players, such as bonus entries based on trophy level. It seems most people have either ignored my OP entirely or completely discounted that sort of idea. This would NOT stop newer players earning a certain number if entries, but would allow older players to earn more. Of course, I still prefer the idea of needing a Bronze Trophy to participate, but this idea works too.

[Lythiaren]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Oh, but apparently it's really super easy despite that to figure out who an egg belongs to just by seeing it on a click site!

 

/sarc

Wat? I use 6 different hatcheries (Silvi's, DDF, AoND, EDS, Jameia's, EATW) and on none of them can I click on a dragon where the user's name is hidden and figure out who it belongs to. The only way would be to go around inputting every single username in existence into the site and seeing if one turns up a growing CB Prize but, uh, good luck finding anything that way.

 

Ahem. Hey, during the last two raffles, didn't it take TJ over a month before he handed out the prizes? So what if everyone could enter, but only if you stayed active for a month would you actually be eligible to win when TJ did the actual drawing?*

 

Then ANY new player would be able to win, so long as they stayed active. While those who join at Christmas and quit a week later would not.

 

*I'm assuming a few things here (like that the drawing isn't done immediately and that the prizes aren't just postponed in the giving out, and that it'll always take over a month for TJ to do this), but if my assumptions are wrong I'm sure things could be changed to work that way.

 

 

 

 

[Coronaviridae]

I have not ever for a moment said people want to restrict entries for personal gain.

 

I am simply pointing out that the idea people who receive certain dragons are therefore obligated to breed them and we should somehow weed out people who won't is a really nasty idea.

 

Because it says, implicitly or explicitly, you believe that you--or "the community"--is entitled to other people's stuff. And that is never how DC has worked.

[Fuzzbucket]

A player who got 51 dragons over a span of three years (Bronze Trophy, halleluja) is more dedicated then a new player who got 49 dragons in 40 days sincehe joined (no Bronze Trophy, go to hell), then? Because his trophy says so?

Well, yeah (I was on my way to bed, honest... then SO wanted me to look up something else...) My grandson got his bronze over a few months and then got hooked on Minecraft instead. I cannot see him as more deserving of a prize that someone who played for two years and only wanted to collect - say - ridgewings, which can take a while - and only managed 37 of them in that time...

[Rally Vincent]

And I honestly don't think your first example is very likely unless the person is extremely picky, since anyone who raises dragons that slowly is someone who DC is not holding their interest very well. x3

It is justr as unlikely that I name one player and that person wins the raffle. Thing is - it is improbable, not impossible. As long it is technically possible, please give me a - valid - reason why my examplary player should have higher chances then the high-spirited new player. The trophy level says nothing about the "dedication" a player has for DC.

 

 

 

 

[Snowytoshi]

If people's concern is that the prizes won't be bred or be appreciated, then my question is: how do we know that they won't be appreciated? Plenty of older users view their dragons only as trade fodder creators, while some younger users may be eager to breed/gift.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[fainewebbe]

A raffle, by nature, is a lottery based on chance/luck. Everyone who enters the raffle has an equal chance of winning a prize, regardless of anything else. If you start changing that, it's not a raffle anymore. It's a contest.

 

As for the prizes, it's no one's business save the winners what they do with them. They are under no obligation to share by breeding, though many very kind ones do so. IMHO, to expect winners to do so begins to mar the whole idea with an ugly sense of entitlement.

 

So...in other words, I say leave as is, please.

[sheppardkid]

Both sides have very good arguments going for them. No matter what we think, there is never going to be a real winner. Someone is always going to find the problem with the current system. I applaud TheGrox for acknowledging the fairness that the raffle system gives, and I applaud wanting to make things as fair as possible.

 

However, I honestly don't think that things can get much more fair than they are. Any way you spin it, adding tweaks to the system will more than likely leave someone out in one way or another. At least with the raffle system everyone has a fair enough chance at winning. I'm not going to lie and say that I don't want my time and dedication to playing this game to go unnoticed. It would be nice if there was some sort of recognition for older players. BUT I don't want that recognition at the cost of fairness to newer players. I'm not entitled to anything on this game. The best suggestion I've seen so far is the one about adding an extra step for players who wanted to up their chances, something that would require extra effort.

 

As for past CB prize winners, it's unfair to them to think they MUST breed their prizes. It's theirs to enjoy and we have no entitlement to share in that. I personally believe that jealousy (no matter how minuscule it may be) plays a big part here. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm not naming names, but I am saying that there have been numerous reports of prize winners being harassed to breed their Tinsels. Heck, even some people who own 2nd gen Tinsels have been harassed at times. That's not in the spirit of the game, in my opinion. We all have our own playing styles it's true. But harassment shouldn't be a part of it (again, not pointing fingers at anyone, just voicing an opinion).

 

These events are done by TJ and the artists in order to give the players something fun to do and to showcase talent. The prizes are an added bonus that should be enjoyed and appreciated, WIN OR LOSE, and not argued or fussed over because luck just wasn't in the cards.

Edited December 29, 2012 by sheppardkid

[sparkle10184]

The raffle is fine the way it is.

 

It would be completely unfair to exclude certain players from any special event! I am especially against the idea of only allowing forum users to participate and win in the raffle. Just because someone doesn't use the forums doesn't mean they're stupid and have no idea how to raise their dragons!

 

Yes, some non-forum users might accidently kill their CB prize dragon (Has anyone ever killed their CB tinsel on purpouse?), but the same can be said of users who go on the forums. So we can't exclude users just because they aren't on the forums.

 

And the idea of having to have been on DC for X amount of time? NO. Just... no. The raffle should be open to ANY user, regardless of their experience, time on DC, etc.

 

Do not think I don't care about where the prize dragons go, I want them to be on an active, experienced scroll. But if doing so means excluding certain members I have to say I'm against it.

 

Also, it is the owner's choice wether to breed their dragons. No one should force them.

[Lythiaren]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler