ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[DaniBoo]

Did I even mention "sharing" at all? Did I mention that that the owner must SHARE THE 2ND GENS? Hell no. I'm talking about the possibility of a normal player (that doesn't have the luck of Vriska Serket) getting an offspring somewhere down the line as long as it's the same breed. Spread The Love for sure didn't say they're gifting 2nd gen tinsels, or even good lineages for the matter.

The only way to obtain prizes that aren't CB is to share. Giving is sharing. Trading is also some-what sharing (because then the person who received the prize will most likely breed and pass those on, and so on). It doesn't matter if it's a second gen prize or tenth gen, there is no requirement for spreading prizes throughout DC. It'd be nice for other people to obtain prizes, but then again, there is a lot of drama already about the prize dragon that hasn't even been given out to winners, imagine the drama when if and when they'll be able to breed. If they were unbreedable, no drama starts and it's fair for everyone.

[CNR4806]

They would be prizes, for their owner to do with as they wish - breed or not, if they can breed, just worship if not. If winners breed - that's nice. But every player who wants one doesn't have any RIGHTS here. Sharing would be done by breeding - and the winner doesn't have to.

Please understand the nature of the word possibility. Perhaps the term straw man as well.

 

I never said that the owners have to share or breeding in this matter. It is that the suggestion to make the prizes unbreedable kills off the possibility of it to even happen.

 

Just by the way, the owners (of a CB prize or its offsprings) can do anything they want with the breeding feature. Breed an offspring for themselves, breed to bite/neglect/whatever "evil" deed, breed to trade, breed to abandon (which by extension can be sharing) and of course breed to share. I have no idea why you keep insisting that I am suggesting that the owners have to share.

 

And last but not least, I voted to nuke the raffle as explained a few pages earlier.

 

The only way to obtain prizes that aren't CB is to share. Giving is sharing. Trading is also some-what sharing (because then the person who received the prize will most likely breed and pass those on, and so on). It doesn't matter if it's a second gen prize or tenth gen, there is no requirement for spreading prizes throughout DC. It'd be nice for other people to obtain prizes, but then again, there is a lot of drama already about the prize dragon that hasn't even been given out to winners, imagine the drama when if and when they'll be able to breed. If they were unbreedable, no drama starts and it's fair for everyone.

 

Ditto. Doesn't nuking the raffle get us less drama? Breedable or not there will be drama, and with the tinsels being breedable, please be realistic about the estimation of drama sparked by the new prize being unbreedable.

 

And for trading being somewhat sharing, yes. But you can't put an equation mark between "trading" and "sharing", which the first one is, strictly speaking, an act to get something else by giving away what you have in return, and sharing is about, well, giving. Trading 2nd gen prize is simply spreading the new prize breed out and increasing the possibility of sharing to actually happen.

Edited January 10, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[KageSora]

What exactly do you 'define' as active? The definition of an active user will most likely vary per person.

Personally, I'd define "active" as having logged in to the site in the last 30 days. You don't have to DO anything, since you may have logged in and simply not seen any eggs you wanted to take or anything, but the act of logging in would make you count as "active" in my book.

 

 

I mean, I myself have gone stretches of time without doing much more than logging in because I didn't feel like working on my lineages/other personal projects and there were no dragons I needed/wanted/couldn't find the ones I needed/wanted. Mostly I lurked on the forums during such times, but you don't have to come to the forums to be active, after all.

 

 

If it comes to the event.... I'd define "active", for the purposes of giving a % of the

"active" population prizes, as "people who earned at least one entry in the event".

 

Since people who don't enter aren't eligible to win anyway.

 

I would argue that even if Skauble's idea were implemented, they would have to earn at least one entry through the use of the event to qualify for the raffle--or, at the very least, to have claimed the December bonus ticket.

 

Why do prize winners have to share? After all, they won the prize? Do you want lotto winners to be obligated to share their prizes as well?

They don't have to--but they shouldn't be denied the option to share, either, IMO.

 

That's like saying "You won the lotto--you are not, under any circumstances, allowed to spend a penny of it nor give it away. You may only hoard it."

 

If they don't want to share, they don't have to. But if they do want to share, they should be allowed to do that, too.

 

maybe to make sure that those who won last year won't win twice. That may sound harsh now, but...

I'd be dead against this--they are not the same dragon as last year, so it's unfair to ban somebody from getting a new dragon because they won a different one, IMO.

 

Now, if they were Tinsels again, I'd be okay with that--they already got their Tinsel. Or if these new prize dragons were allowed again.

 

 

I'd also, personally, argue that they should be allowed to win a different version than they have--so if they won a gold tinsel they could still win a silver or a bronze, but not a gold again.

[MedievalMystic]

If they were unbreedable, no drama starts and it's fair for everyone.

 

Except the people that actually own them, that might want to breed for themselves. Why should that be taken away from them, just because of what the community might want to see happen? I don't get it. The heck with what the community wants when you come right down to the bottom line. Prize owners will do as they please, and all we can do is deal with it. That's pretty much all there is to it. If none of the winners breed, so be it. I can handle that. If they all breed and soon there are prize dragons on every scroll, great. Whatever pleases them. It's their prize. Let them enjoy it however they want to, whether or not it benifits another soul. They do what they want, and I'm good either way.

 

Yes, giving is a good and noble thing, but not if I'm guilted into it. I feel kind of sorry for the prize winners already. Their mailboxes are going to be overflowing...

 

 

I'd be dead against this--they are not the same dragon as last year, so it's unfair to ban somebody from getting a new dragon because they won a different one, IMO.

 

I'm in full agreement.

Edited January 4, 2013 by MedievalMystic

[Fuzzbucket]

Please understand the nature of the word possibility. Perhaps the term straw man as well.

 

I never said that the owners have to share or breeding in this matter. It is that the suggestion to make the prizes unbreedable kills off the possibility of it to even happen.

 

Just by the way, the owners (of a CB prize or its offsprings) can do anything they want with the breeding feature. Breed an offspring for themselves, breed to bite/neglect/whatever "evil" deed, breed to trade, breed to abandon (which by extension can be sharing) and of course breed to share. I have no idea why you keep insisting that I am suggesting that the owners have to share.

 

And last but not least, I voted to nuke the raffle as explained a few pages earlier.

 

But yes - unbreedables would mean no more of that breed unles sthey showed up as prizes again some time.

 

Why would that be in some way the end of the dragon world as we know it, though ?

 

But breeding IS sharing of genes. If winners breed they would be sharing the offspring of their prizes. And those who feel that a winner should breed (and I did not mean to include you in that number BTW... I had seen that you wanted it all to go away ) and that a prize should not be allowed to go to someone who might not want to breed it, shock horror, would HAVE to give up on that idea if it were unbreedable. Which in the present climate might not be a bad idea !

 

 

I have however now got myself all excited about winners getting the facility to breed their papers...

Edited January 10, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[TheGrox]

I never said that the owners have to share [...], or breeding in this matter. It is that the suggestion to make the prizes unbreedable kills off the possibility of it to even happen.

As does giving prizes to players who subsequently quit. But I completely agree with you on unbreedable prizes - prizes should be breedable, in my opinion.

Edited January 4, 2013 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

As does giving prizes to players who subsequently quit.

You can never ever ever know who will later quit or when or why. So that particular issue isn't one that should affect anything, IMHO. A regular player from 2007 might win and decide not to breed; a newbie with a whole 2 adults might win and intend to share the love all over - and be run over by a bus before getting the chance.

 

As I said way up there - at 68, I could win and have a heart attack the moment afterwards (indeed, the shock itself might do it...) And I would immediately be inactive and you would all never know what had happened....

 

Well, Quinney would find out in the end, I imagine, by Other Means - but she might not choose to post...

Edited January 4, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

Yes, but it's more likely newer players wi... actually, what's the point? I've said it all before. /stops flogging the dead horse

 

Does nobody have any thoughts on what the next poll should be btw? I posted a while back but nobody replied ;_;

[BatPopsicle]

I feel kind of sorry for the prize winners already. Their mailboxes are going to be overflowing...

After reading this thread I now know what to expect if I happen to be lucky enough to win. I plan on nailing my mailbox shut... until I breed a few for some friends and for some people here who have been kind enough to help me. Then after I guess I would just lurk in the threads and maybe give out surprise gifts. Stalkers would not be getting an egg from me, meaning people who continually harassed me.

[panic siren]

To the subject of making how many prizes there are unknown, I can't say I'm in favor of it. I don't need to know who has prizes, but I would like to know that someday I might get a distantly related sprite to one of them.

 

I think it's great that there is no list of prizes AND who got them, just 'how many' there are out there. I think it gives the rest of the 'unwashed masses of the unfortunate that didn't win' (like myself) some hope that with a little (or ) of patience, and hard work with catching, breeding, trading, or just plain generosity of gifters that you will likely get some form of the sprite on your scroll one day...even if that day doesn't come for a couple of years.

 

However, if we don't know if 3 or 300 prizes were given out it gives the prize winner an even greater advantage, and thereby create more 'drama and rage' such as if someone comes forward with a 2g or even a 9g inbred six ways to sunday asking for 10+ CB golds and 8 neglected and a 2G offspring from a CB marrow and CB frill - then yes, we're back to the "rich" getting richer with both the prize holder and those with mad clicking skills, the ability to get or make neglected or trading for with with whatever other breeding stock of rares in their possession. Then yes, that would be a little disappointing. *Please Read* disappointing, *not* unfair or 'boo, a pox on the houses of those that have more than I.'

 

However, if I knew that it was possible that I could get my hands on one, someday, it's just like the phone models - you can stand back and chuckle at those that are willing to give up a week of their life to sleep outside the Apple Store to get a new model of the iphone - just to say they're 'the first' which, hey - good for them - but at least you know that after a while, you too can have one of your own that's more "affordable." Even if it's 'used' or in the way of dragons, inbred, crazy lineaged, or high gen.

 

I think the raffle is fine the way it is. The fact that it had to be "worked" for made the odds even better to those that put the time in, but there will always be someone (or many someones) with a problem - after all, you could have worked your butt off to make all the recipes *without* a cheat sheet spending hours or days, or you could have had the cheat sheet - made just *one* 'sandvich' during a class break and get a prize still.

 

But that's how it is. It's a game of chance. In the grand scheme of chance games, I think this is one of the fairer ones (and it was fun) - and I can't imagine even if every suggestion made here was implemented that people who *still* didn't win would throw in the towel and say "but you know, I may not have won - but it was fair, and I can tend to my dragons confidently knowing that."

 

I am sure about one thing though, whether it's intended or not, it's looking like raffles and prizes and what is meant to be a fun event is looking less and less like it's worth the trouble to those that organize it for the future. :/

 

(edited in an or instead of on)

Edited January 4, 2013 by panic siren

[Fuzzbucket]

Yes, but it's more likely newer players wi... actually, what's the point? I've said it all before. /stops flogging the dead horse

 

Does nobody have any thoughts on what the next poll should be btw? I posted a while back but nobody replied ;_;

The only thing - I'd think - is simply HOW MANY prizes - as in an absolute number, proportional to entries or to participants; percentage, etc ?

 

Whether - is up to TJ.

 

WHAT - is up to TJ.

 

I MIGHT like to see how many would prefer the actual NUMBER of winners to remain a secret though.... That would seem to solve so much in one fell swoop.

 

 

[Rally Vincent]

Oh, there would be plenty of owners, but those owners would agree to breed only beautiful lineages, and to only give their offspring to others who will also breed only beautiful lineages.

I've heard something like that quite often, and I wonder who those players are that would subdue their scroll to the wish of others? I sure wouldn't, but I guess there are enough people who wouldn't mind? Do you have experience with this? (Just curious - you can PM me if you think it's off-topic).

[Fuzzbucket]

That's just what THEY said THEY would do with their prize, if they had one. There is no mention of other players or experiences.

Oh but there is - they say ONLY people who would do what THEY want with their offspring will get them. That assumes those people will do as they are told. You can't guarantee that.

 

I often offer up eggs in the even gen thread and I do ask people NOT to kill, release, fail to name. But although I trust a bit - I cannot insist and I can never be sure.

 

A close FRIEND IRL has quit the game and lord knows what will happen to everything I bred for them.... not to mention that in the end all those named I have in my lineages will in the end be nameless, sob weep and stuff. And that was a MAD keen player with a gold trophy and everything.

[TheGrox]

I seem to have misinterpreted what Vincent was asking, fuzz made it clearer. Sorry about that . I understand what you mean now, you can't guarantee what people will do with eggs once they leave your own scroll, nor should you be able to dictate that. By all means ask them, but it's their scroll, their decision.

Edited January 4, 2013 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

Grox - what do you think about us all getting no info about how many prizes there are ?

[Rally Vincent]

Just adding to the 'Give out more prizes' vs. 'Will be overbred too soon' matter: If the Prize Dragons were not reproducing via breeding but similar to Vampires, TJ could give out more Prizes, yet they'd reproduce in a slower rate. so, "breeding" without breeding.

 

So let the Prizes be Werwolves./kidding

[Fuzzbucket]

Just adding to the 'Give out more prizes' vs. 'Will be overbred too soon' matter: If the Prize Dragons were not reproducing via breeding but similar to Vampires, TJ could give out more Prizes, yet they'd reproduce in a slower rate. so, "breeding" without breeding.

 

So let the Prizes be Werwolves./kidding

No kidding ! AWESOME idea

[TheGrox]

Grox - what do you think about us all getting no info about how many prizes there are ?

I wouldn't mind it actually, though then I'd have no statistics on how many prize winners quit or still remain 'unknown' . It would make it more interesting not knowing just how many there are around . I actually think it would be a very clever move for TJ to make.

Edited January 4, 2013 by TheGrox

[Evilminion]

(now THERE would be a good prize - a breedable facility for the winner's papers...)

How about the one-time opportunity to bind all your current papers into a sprite of a tiny, winged book? I'd go for it, even though it would mean losing my gendered papers!

 

book

[siliconrose]

I think we're seeing a work in progress anyways. The first year it was a contest, which was an obvious way of handling the distribution of prize dragons. There were some problems with it, so TJ moved to a raffle. Based on what happened with the raffle last year, he's tuned it further this year, leaving it a raffle but with a bit of basic skill embedded. The way the raffle works this year naturally discourages multiscrollers from participating.

 

You know, if I got a prize dragon, I might distribute offspring based on the completion of requested, custom-built lineages. A competition within the competition.

[Evilminion]

The way the raffle works this year naturally discourages multiscrollers from participating.

I've heard variations of this quite a bit lately, but I'm thinking the "multiscroller threat" isn't quite so prevalent as everyone has been fearing. TJ is quite capable of looking up the IP addresses we use for every action we take in the game, and I sincerely doubt he'd award multiple prizelings to two accounts on the same IP. Heck, he probably wouldn't even award one prizeling to an account that logs in on the same IP as several other accounts, unless it's one of those huge rusting relics of the dial-up Internet industry with a limited and non-dynamic stable of addresses.

 

My husband got his scroll burned a few years ago, because we set up a trade for an egg he wanted with a group of eggs that were on both of our scrolls (this was long before teleport or increased egg limits and, back in those days, you could "bounce" an egg from scroll to scroll to gain time before it had to hatch, IF you coordinated the drop-and-catch well enough to not lose it in transit), and we were verifiably two different people.

 

So it seems to me that the chances of one player with multiple scrolls successfully receiving a prize egg is exceedingly remote, even if it was a straightforward raffle rather than the minigame hybrid that it actually turned out to be.

 

Sort of a tangent here, but whoever called the raffle "the cherry on top" is spot-on. The cooking event was a blast.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Evilminion

[RainDear]

After reading this thread I now know what to expect if I happen to be lucky enough to win. I plan on nailing my mailbox shut... until I breed a few for some friends and for some people here who have been kind enough to help me. Then after I guess I would just lurk in the threads and maybe give out surprise gifts. Stalkers would not be getting an egg from me, meaning people who continually harassed me.

This thread has opened my eyes to something I had never realized before. I had always known that winners would be inundated by requesting, begging, demanding pms, and perhaps emails and thought that I would be able to handle that. This thread has made me aware of the scrutiny that the eggs and then dragons as well as the scroll and member are subject to. I find it creepy if not frightening that the dragons are watched and breedings noted, etc. If I became aware of this type of watching on my scroll, it would certainly change my play behavior-hide my scroll, quit the forums, leave my prize unnamed-if I didn't just quit. At this moment, I am not surprised that so many winners left, I am surprised that any stayed.

[TheGrox]

That's the nature of the raffle I'm afraid. You have a super-rare limited edition CB dragon that everyone wants an egg from, you're going to get stalked and watched.

 

Thing is, newer players probably couldn't handle that as well as more experienced players could.

[siliconrose]

I've heard variations of this quite a bit lately, but I'm thinking the "multiscroller threat" isn't quite so prevalent as everyone has been fearing. TJ is quite capable of looking up the IP addresses we use for every action we take in the game, and I sincerely doubt he'd award multiple prizelings to two accounts on the same IP. Heck, he probably wouldn't even award one prizeling to an account that logs in on the same IP as several other accounts, unless it's one of those huge rusting relics of the dial-up Internet industry with a limited and non-dynamic stable of addresses.

 

My husband got his scroll burned a few years ago, because we set up a trade for an egg he wanted with a group of eggs that were on both of our scrolls (this was long before teleport or increased egg limits and, back in those days, you could "bounce" an egg from scroll to scroll to gain time before it had to hatch, IF you coordinated the drop-and-catch well enough to not lose it in transit), and we were verifiably two different people.

 

So it seems to me that the chances of one player with multiple scrolls successfully receiving a prize egg is exceedingly remote, even if it was a straightforward raffle rather than the minigame hybrid that it actually turned out to be.

I'm fairly sure that at least two prize winners subsequently had their scrolls burned due to multiscrolling. Clearly, since they were burned, they were not able to benefit longterm from their rulebreaking, but it's still possible.

[Fuzzbucket]

This thread has opened my eyes to something I had never realized before. I had always known that winners would be inundated by requesting, begging, demanding pms, and perhaps emails and thought that I would be able to handle that. This thread has made me aware of the scrutiny that the eggs and then dragons as well as the scroll and member are subject to. I find it creepy if not frightening that the dragons are watched and breedings noted, etc. If I became aware of this type of watching on my scroll, it would certainly change my play behavior-hide my scroll, quit the forums, leave my prize unnamed-if I didn't just quit. At this moment, I am not surprised that so many winners left, I am surprised that any stayed.

 

Mercifully you cannot see when a dragon was last bred if it didn't succeed. That at least is private. Sounds like not a lot - but when someone thinks you owe them something (in this case NOT - they just felt I did because I had dragons they didn't and so I was TOLD to breed them !!! no I did NOT...) and says you aren't even TRYING....

 

Yuk.

Edited January 4, 2013 by fuzzbucket