Egg Multiclutches

[Princess Artemis]

If it were a BSA, so people could opt in/out of multi-clutch chances, I could be ok with that. I wouldn't want it to replace fertility, though. Make it something separate, so we can still have our chance of getting any eggs, as well.

My vote was other, and for this reason. A multi-clutch BSA that isn't Fertility would be fun, but I don't think multiclutches should return for regular play.

[RainDear]

Since breeding is so difficult over all right now, I see two negatives coming from the return of multiples (outside of holidays):

 

1. If I get 2 eggs, someone else gets another failed breeding.

2. More unwanted eggs in the AP.

 

The way things are now, all successful breedings are spread out over the whole breeding population, and we all have an equal, if slight, chance of success, but any multis would inevitably mean someone else would get nothing, I prefer things stay the way they are.

 

 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I wouldn't want clutches to become common again, for a simple reason--the vast majority of breedings are of things that people don't really want. The AP is filled with tons of commons already. Making multi-clutches would only make it worse. And while it would increase the chances of rares multi-clutching too, as others have said the breeder can still only keep the one egg, so it wouldn't be of much benefit for the user. So basically you'd be greatly increasing the amount of commons in the AP in exchange for the rare, rare chance that every once in a while a person gets a rare multiclutch and some AP stalker gets a nice surprise off of it... which seems like a bad trade off to me.

 

However, that being said, I would like it if multi clutches were still THERE, just with a small percent of happening. Hearing that they've been turned off entirely is sad--back in the old days it was always fun to get the occasional multi clutch and squeal because you either got eggs from both breeds and thus could pick which one you had been hoping for, or simply the fun of looking at the different egg's codes and picking one you liked best.

Edited January 21, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[TurboSilver]

I'm not going to vote on this one, but I think that clutches should remain as holiday only, simply because it would allow users who are missing the holiday or don't have an 'equal' trade for the holiday's value in the AP, to get one.

 

Although, a multi clutch was is one of the few reasons I have a pair of twin silvers (regular). /o/

 

As for commons, if you end up getting the breed you didn't want, it might end up clogging the AP (as I do remember seeing the AP filled with Mints at one point... not that I'm saying they were from a multi clutch, but still...)

[Natayah]

Summary of my Novella: Generally I would vote No. I can understand why people want clutches to create a more fun roleplay setting. Examples of population control in nature & how clutches would generally not exist. Propose BSA options for other dragons & Roleplay with mother based on real life animals & nature.

 

My feeling for Multi Clutch is mostly NO based on all the previous reasons with Overpopulation, Cave / AP Blocks , overabundance of commons, etc.

 

But I understand for the sense of realism and Roleplay or game flavor, people would like to have multi clutches. So "siblings" aren't just the same parents who bred 5 years apart. They were actually born together. So for the "roleplay world" enhancement of such, I can understand why people want them. But, this isn't (just for example) Dragonriders of Pern. I know a lot of Dragon Worlds feature this, but ... lets look at it from an actual nature perspective.

 

In nature, if there is an abundance of a creature, the litters usually decline in size. This is to prevent overpopulation and thus death due to lack of resources. Our dragons aren't "rare." They are pretty common. And they also aren't the size of a house or bigger like a lot of other Dragon worlds have. Having a clutch of more than 1 egg may just be physically impossible for our dragons. Yes, I already know chickens produce bunches of small eggs. But our dragons generally aren't much bigger than ... a dog or a horse? And there are mints and pygmies. Our dragon eggs, at least to me, have always seemed like they are a good size bigger than a chicken egg.

 

When there is an abundance, or overabundance, of species, the females have different ways to deal with this. Rabbits bodies will reasorb the some of the fertilized eggs, thus reducing size of the litter. Some animals eat their young or some of their young (like hamsters). Some breeds lay multiple eggs, but whichever hatches first is the one who gets to live, and the others get pushed out of the nest to crash and die when they hit the ground (like eagles). If we are going to add this aspect to our world, we do have to make a bit realistic in order to make it work.

 

If this idea were to be used, I would suggest a toggle on off in participation since its more of a roleplay enhancement and some people would be very very upset to actually have this option because it involves death.

 

I would make clutching rather rare, but possible. I would flat out ban it with certain breeds (ie pygmies and mints or something - yeah I know with holidays thats a bit of an issue if we have more holiday themed pygmies in the future) based on dragon size. Since our world is overpopulated, a litter of more than 1 is likely to also have runts or more sickly siblings. If a clutch is produced, I would have the mother dragon worry over her babies and would choose which egg to give preference for her care, leaving the other one to be nudged out to die. Not in the AP, but abandoned so the other can live and it will die. But not in a way that it negatively impacts the egg / scroll slots. It could be notated in the Dragon View page if someone wants to have it listed as a life changing event.

 

But while the mother cannot save more than 1 egg, perhaps some other dragons in the Cave could help out. White Dragons Can help to heal and monitor the sickly egg(s) so there is less of a chance of death. Guardian Dragons watch over and protect (some one had this listed as a BSA possiblity in another thread which is the only reason I suggest it since its been brought up before) the egg for a set amount of time to allow for the Human to try and free up the egg slot to allow it to hatch. Or the human gets to choose another egg to abandon to allow the sibling from the same clutch to be focused upon. Or maybe not a single dragon BSA but various breeds perform various functions within the cave to assist the mother with raising more than one egg, especially since its likely at least one egg is less healthy than the other(s).

 

This could be a multi step BSA and it keeps them so busy that their cooldowns for breeding and/or other BSAs are "frozen" and will not resume until the care of the extra egg(s) pass. White Dragon to monitor the Health and heal. Guardian Dragon to protect the egg against the elements (caves just aren't as cozy as a cottage) as it would make sense that a less healthy egg may have bigger issues with soft shell and/or to keep away predators looking for less healthy eggs to steal to eat. I think there were some other proposed dragon breeds where they take other eggs and inject them with something or lay their eggs amongst a clutch so the mother does not realize (sorta like a mocking bird). Perhaps these dragons, if they were ever used, would only be able to lay their egg in a clutch so the mother would be too frantic to notice the difference. DayDream Dragons to rest / hide the egg gently in floating clouds to make sure the baby egg gets plenty of rest (kinda like the baby incubators for newborn premies and such). Storm Dragons to create a "fog" around the egg so no one realizes there is an extra egg around and since it is fogged with an element, no other elements can harm it. I don't know, but there is a lot of potential that if the mother is going to make the decision to not let any eggs, or less eggs, die from her clutch, she would need to seek out the aid of other dragons in the Cave. When moms get the news they aren't having just 1 but multiple babies, you better believe they are looking for as much help as they can. Of course, there should be a possiblity the dragon she makes the request to may decline. Bad Hair day or Something. And limit the amount of times the mother can request for that BSA assist from that particular breed. If the mother can't get a White Dragon to agree to help her in 3-5 requests, the egg will die because its missing a piece of the puzzle, even if the other breeds are happy to help. Multi Breed BSA - like Summon! And no GoN Summon Clutches unfortunately.

 

So if there was going to be a decision to have or not have clutches, or to make it optional if you consider your dragons things you like to pretend you actually interact with instead of pixels on a computer monitor, then I would look at those reasons. But if we are going to allow it, it would really need to be an option that is more of a Roleplay thing rather than a kill eggs thing. It would need to be optional because .... some people just can't stand the thought of being responsible for the death of an egg, even if it has no negative consequences for it. They just can't deal with it. But if its possible, on the siblings that successfully grow up, there should be something in their view page to notate they are a Twin and who is there Power Twin Buddy.

 

Didn't mean to be so long, but I tried to look a both sides, and find a way where both sides could have their cake and eat it too.

Edited January 21, 2012 by natayah

[Princess Kiara]

I think what I'd be most interested in is either seeing clutches come back or seeing dragons being able to breed more often.  When it takes half a year to have a dragon pop out one egg, that's a bit much.  I'd like to see breeding go smoother, whether that means more eggs in a clutch or eggs more often.

YES! OMG multiclutches! Maybe the likelihood of real blockers being multi'd could be tweaked a bit, so we don't have to bother with 'em? Or maybe the clutches could be tweaked to be max two eggs per breeding? I kept breeding my Silver to a whole bunch of mates for over a year and a half, and all I got was one Silver egg when I bred it to my Geode. Now I finally have holidays, and the bugger won't produce! I have two Silver IOUs to fulfill, and it sure would be nice if I could fill both in one fell swoop...or their owners might have to wait for one year each! Fertility matters dirt to my Silver... The fact that I only have one (very messy) Silver doesn't help either...

And natayah: Dragon eggs are three times the size of chicken eggs...What I don't get is, why are all the eggs (except pygmies) the same size! I'd love to see a giant egg or something...

Edited January 21, 2012 by Princess Kiara

[linkx7]

i say that if two dragons of the same breed breed u get 1 egg but if they are different you should get one of each

[Obscure_Trash]

i say that if two dragons of the same breed breed u get 1 egg but if they are different you should get one of each

Multiclutches (in the past) had the chance of being a mix of the two parents and you could get up to four eggs.

[skauble]

YES! OMG multiclutches! Maybe the likelihood of real blockers being multi'd could be tweaked a bit, so we don't have to bother with 'em? Or maybe the clutches could be tweaked to be max two eggs per breeding? I kept breeding my Silver to a whole bunch of mates for over a year and a half, and all I got was one Silver egg when I bred it to my Geode. Now I finally have holidays, and the bugger won't produce! I have two Silver IOUs to fulfill, and it sure would be nice if I could fill both in one fell swoop...or their owners might have to wait for one year each! Fertility matters dirt to my Silver... The fact that I only have one (very messy) Silver doesn't help either...

And natayah: Dragon eggs are three times the size of chicken eggs...What I don't get is, why are all the eggs (except pygmies) the same size! I'd love to see a giant egg or something...

It should probably be mentioned that multi-clutches with multiple rares in them happened mainly in the period when there was a metallic imbalance that over produced them. Now, having the ratios corrected, it would most likely be extremely, extremely rare that people would get them.

 

Also, sadly, you wouldn't be able to fill those IOUs at once. You can only keep one egg from a multi-clutch; the others drop to the AP. So you wouldn't be able to give two people their eggs and the double silvers would mean that another Silver breeding won't be successful.

 

But I definitely share your pain on getting Silvers to produce. I remember, a few years ago, you sometimes couldn't even find someone to gift a Silver to on TGT. Now I'd almost pay to see them breed.

[Fullmetal_Angyl]

I didn't read this whole thing. I found it searching "clutch".

 

There's something I thought up and I don't know if it has been mentioned elsewhere on the site before. When breeding certain reptiles often young females will produce a smaller clutch, like a leopard gecko laying one egg her first time.

 

So I was wondering about a slight rise (within limits) in the chance of producing a multi-clutch with older or longer bred dragons. The older or more times a female dragon has been successfully bred maybe the more likely she is to consistently produce eggs and lay the occasional multi-clutch.

 

A seasoned breeder having higher success rates while younger or never bred dragons have the current success rates. I say females because they are the egg layers and it just makes sense to me personally.

[DarkVioletCloud]

I didn't read this whole thing. I found it searching "clutch".

 

There's something I thought up and I don't know if it has been mentioned elsewhere on the site before. When breeding certain reptiles often young females will produce a smaller clutch, like a leopard gecko laying one egg her first time.

 

So I was wondering about a slight rise (within limits) in the chance of producing a multi-clutch with older or longer bred dragons. The older or more times a female dragon has been successfully bred maybe the more likely she is to consistently produce eggs and lay the occasional multi-clutch.

 

A seasoned breeder having higher success rates while younger or never bred dragons have the current success rates. I say females because they are the egg layers and it just makes sense to me personally.

If multi-clutches would work like this, then I'd like that, since it's working realistically.

[Pokemonfan13]

Multiclutches were removed for a reason. Mainly the AP is overcrowded as it is, imagine how bad it would be when dragons produce 2+ eggs relatively frequently, where the extra eggs must go to the AP. They were in place when people were breeding all their dragons just to send eggs to an empty AP so people would have dragons to raise. Things have changed since then.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I wouldn't want clutches to become common again, for a simple reason--the vast majority of breedings are of things that people don't really want. The AP is filled with tons of commons already. Making multi-clutches would only make it worse. And while it would increase the chances of rares multi-clutching too, as others have said the breeder can still only keep the one egg, so it wouldn't be of much benefit for the user. So basically you'd be greatly increasing the amount of commons in the AP in exchange for the rare, rare chance that every once in a while a person gets a rare multiclutch and some AP stalker gets a nice surprise off of it... which seems like a bad trade off to me.

 

However, that being said, I would like it if multi clutches were still THERE, just with a small percent of happening. Hearing that they've been turned off entirely is sad--back in the old days it was always fun to get the occasional multi clutch and squeal because you either got eggs from both breeds and thus could pick which one you had been hoping for, or simply the fun of looking at the different egg's codes and picking one you liked best.

Requoting because this is still what I think. I agree with everyone else that common multiclutching would be a disaster, but--even just having a 1-5% chance of getting two eggs would be awesome, and unlikely to significantly increase AP clutter. Then people could get excited and just have a little fun on the rare occassions it happened.

 

I'd also like to point out that the breed action still declares "Breed this dragon with a X/Y, producing up to four eggs." I don't think multiclutching on holidays only is justification for that description, so either reinstall multiclutching (albeit very limited multiclutching) or dump the description, as right now it gives a really skewed picture of how breeding works.

Edited May 10, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fullmetal_Angyl]

Multiclutches were removed for a reason.  Mainly the AP is overcrowded as it is, imagine how bad it would be when dragons produce 2+ eggs relatively frequently, where the extra eggs must go to the AP.  They were in place when people were breeding all their dragons just to send eggs to an empty AP so people would have dragons to raise.  Things have changed since then.

 

Sorry if I was unclear, but I wasn't implying that dragons should be consistently producing 2+ eggs. I just meant that over time a dragon would be less likely to fail at producing 1 egg and there would be a slight increase in the chance of having the rare multi-clutch, but it would only increase so far like someone using a dragon for 2 years before they can reach the 5-10% chance limit for a multi-cluch. And the smaller the clutch the more likely. Like, say, 10% for 2, 5% for 3, and 2% for 4 or something like that.

 

I only meant consistently laying eggs. Not consistently laying clutches. Guess comparing them to Leo Geckos didn't work out too well...

 

I also think that consistent clutches, even a 25% chance of 2 eggs would be a burden. Just really old, long time layers being less likely to fail at producing 1 egg and having a slightly higher chance than normal at a multi-clutch, which I don't think would be a problem in old dragons.

 

It would mean that the person would have to be playing the game for awhile, like a couple months maybe, before just possibly consistent laying to start rising slightly and a lot longer for the chance of getting a multi-clutch to start rising slightly and much more slowly. None of this would apply to beginners because it all takes so long to take effect.

 

Please don't throw stones.

[Pokemonfan13]

I was talking about the idea of adding back multiclutches in general, not necessarily your post.

 

And with the percentages you just quoted, that's a total of 15% chance of producing multiple eggs, which is relatively frequent. That's a multiclutch on average every 6 to 7 breedings for the well-bred dragons.

 

The idea of an increasing chance of fertility isn't a bad one necessarily, but I'm not sure I like it either. Why should people who breed their dragon every week (and thereby if they breed with a dragon that can produce its own kind produce more eggs that go to the AP because they were the "wrong" breed) have an advantage over newbies or those who only breed their dragons when they need the offspring?

[Ashywolf]

Out of curiosity, why does it still say in the main site that breeding "can produce up to 4 eggs" when multi-clutches are obselete?

 

Is this still in place purely because of the holiday dragons?

[Pixxelation]

Out of curiosity, why does it still say in the main site that breeding "can produce up to 4 eggs" when multi-clutches are obselete?

 

Is this still in place purely because of the holiday dragons?

Yes, for holidays.

 

I WANTZ CLUTCHES BACK. That is all.

[Pokemonfan13]

Either because of holiday dragons or because TJ hasn't changed it yet. It probably isn't at the top of his to-do list.

[White-Sword-Master]

Yes, I do want clutches back, but I would like to choose x amount of eggs I can keep, that would be nice.

[Teez]

I would not want non-holiday multiclutches. If I'm breeding and it's not a holiday, I only want one egg at a time; I'm particular about what I send off of my scroll, especially if I'm working on a personal lineage. It's been a while since the AP has been horribly clogged all the time, too, and I think multiple eggs being kicked off a scroll with common breedings would contribute to that returning.

 

I really don't like the idea of multiclutches being tied to older or longer-bred dragons, either. I'd only be breeding new dragons. :\ If I'm understanding one of the suggestions in this thread, that a BSA could allow the possibility of multiclutches, that would at least be something I could avoid on my own scroll instead of it being the default, even though I still don't think it would be ideal...

Edited May 11, 2012 by god_matter

[Diame]

If they do decide on whether to leave multiple clutches in, could they edit they text so when you actually breed the dragon, it still won't say that it is possible to get multiple eggs. Cause I've gone on for the longest time thinking that it was still possible. Why? Cause it still says so and from what I've read, it no longer exists. It's a bit misleading if this feature has been taken away in the first place.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yes, I do want clutches back, but I would like to choose x amount of eggs I can keep, that would be nice.

CERTAINLY should not apply to holidays. (Oh but wait - there are the breed limits to deal with that !)

 

I don't mind the message, but it does make me giggle a bit. Then again - TJ could at any moment allow them for the odd half hour, and amaze us - so they may be CAPABLE, just not do it a whole lot

[HeatherMarie]

No multi-clutches, not unless it was a VERY small chance.

 

Multi-clutches do absolutely nothing but send eggs to the AP. That's all it does. We can only keep one, so any extra goes to the AP and clogs it up even more.

 

People still fight over "fixing" the AP, and you want *more* out there? No thanks.

[Pokemonfan13]

CERTAINLY should not apply to holidays. (Oh but wait - there are the breed limits to deal with that !)

Ya, except for the fact that even if you're at the limit you can keep an egg and then teleport it before a time limit. So even if you're at the limit you'd be able to keep all the eggs and trade them, with no failure chance.

[Fuzzbucket]

Ya, except for the fact that even if you're at the limit you can keep an egg and then teleport it before a time limit. So even if you're at the limit you'd be able to keep all the eggs and trade them, with no failure chance.

Good point. NO, then