Cave Feedback

[Whitefire]

I didn't even turn it off for the whole site, just that page. Besides the column thing [which isnt super horrible, if you think about it] i actually dont really mind this one.

 

The actions page now loads when i click 'open link in new tab' instead of giving me an 'invalid referrer' page first, which is nice.

 

 

TBH i'm a neutral positive on this one.

[natli]

I'm among the few people who like the 'two column' action page. Now 'breed' is the last on the left, I don't have to look for it anymore.

 

As for the adblock issue, I'm a bit calmer then I was yestarday, since the solution CNR4806 posted on the previous page worked for me. I have my adblock, and my default skin - thank you!

 

That being said, I would prefer that the staff quit pretending it's the adblock's fault and that the recent changes *accidentally* force/encourage people to disable adblock. I'm not twelve to believe such an obvious lie.

 

The issue of money and adds can be discussed openly. I want DC to remain a free site, and I understand that ads cover some of the expenses. But I will not disable adblock till I'm 100% sure that my laptop will not be infected.

[Fuzzbucket]

That being said, I would prefer that the staff quit pretending it's the adblock's fault and that the recent changes *accidentally* force/encourage people to disable adblock. I'm not twelve to believe such an obvious lie.

 

The issue of money and adds can be discussed openly. I want DC to remain a free site, and I understand that ads cover some of the expenses. But I will not disable adblock till I'm 100% sure that my laptop will not be infected.

This. I recall a couple of years ago when there was an ad here that did badly infect several people (I was already using adblock so I was lucky, but...) Sure, TJ blocked the ad after he heard about it - but stable doors after horses bolt...

 

And as an aside, the MAIN reason I use adblock on the FORUM is infected SIGNATURES.

[Obscure_Trash]

Guys, this was not some spiteful update to make people pay for adfree or anything. If it was, everybody with adblock would be experiencing trouble. It is just some weird, random incompatibility with adblock. It isn't intentional. It's fine if you don't like the change, if you want more changes to the change, or if you want it switched back, but please stop posting like this was some evil conspiracy.

[FortyTwo]

It is just some weird, random incompatibility with adblock. It isn't intentional.

As much as I like to see changes (always good to see a website looking to advance itself)...

 

But... this could easily be fixed by changing the footer styling to "clear:both".

 

See, the list items (1 item per action) are set to float. And the footer is also set to float. So they stack left to right. But the footer has a huge size, so it just ends up overlaying the actions.

 

This isn't a problem with adblock or anything. It's a problem with the site's styling and it only needs one statement to fix it.

[Wymsical]

To the people who have issues with Flash ads, you should consider specifically getting something that automatically blocks Flash elements on a page until you give it the go ahead to load or just outright getting rid of Flash if you never actually need it for anything you do. Doing the latter will make only regular image and text ads load for you. I haven't tested out the former in a while, but it probably still just leaves a space the size of the ad that signifies a blocked Flash element.

 

DC's ads appear to be serviced by Google ads from what I can tell (if you happen upon this post TJ, feel free to correct me if my assumption is wrong), and Google generally does a good job of screening their ads. There are times where a Google ad may cause what's called a "false positive" which are when safety measures of browsers, anti-virus programs, etc. wrongly detect a security issue. These events are pretty rare though, and I myself haven't had one happen to me in a while nor have I been seeing people freak out (as they always do, which I can understand if you're uninformed on the subject) about one. But as the name would tell you, when that happens nothing bad is actually happening and there's no real danger... it's just an unfortunate accident. I'm not saying to disregard every warning you get for stuff like this. I'm telling you that if you get such an issue on one or more sites that use only Google ads that there's a pretty decent chance there's no actual threat. Those issues usually get taken care of pretty quickly anyway.

 

The thing about ads on sites is that they generate revenue based upon not just clicks, but also by virtue of the ad being loaded in the first place. By blocking an ad, you do take away some amount of revenue the site would be getting just because those ads are not being loaded. DC's ads are in no way intrusive. My personal opinion is that sites should be working towards putting up ads that aren't intrusive. You know... no things popping up in your face, things making noise, stuff appearing after hovering over certain words, ads being serviced by sketchy places, or the page being quite literally loaded to the brim with ads. I don't fault people for blocking intrusive ads at all, because they are a nuisance and they are what actually give you things like viruses.

 

If a site doesn't have intrusive ads, you should really consider disabling your adblocker and taking whatever other additional methods you need for a pleasant browsing experiencing (like blocking Flash elements as I mentioned earlier). This goes doubly so for places where it's clear that the site is not being run by some corporation or individual with lots of money. A lot of people blocking ads adds up way more than you think it does, and I've personally had to deal with this and it sucks. So please, all I ask is that you explore other options instead of just condemning all ads ever because not all ads are dangerous and it still saddens me that this mindset continues to permeate everything. Do some research, you might be surprised to find out what you learn and just how many options out there you have.

 

---

 

I only have two gripes with the Actions page. The first is the lack of a space between the main content of the page and the ad itself. This space is present on most if not all other pages on the site but appears to be missing on the Actions page. Here are some screenshots I took to show what I'm talking about (I like obnoxiously green things, I know I'm weird).

 

My other gripe, which is much larger than the first one, is that the order the actual actions are presented in make little sense. It would be much better if they were ordered in a way according to how commonly those actions are used/needed. I don't see why "Kill" is the first action listed and why "Hide" is the last action listed. If anything, those two specifically would do better off being switched with one another. The rest of the ordering can also be slightly altered in a few different ways that would work out much better than how it is now. I'm not going to bother giving any specific suggestions for that since Actions do vary slightly depending on the state of the dragon, and also the fact that really this is such a simple thing that it shouldn't take longer than a few minutes of thinking to make it better. It really doesn't need a lot of input from other people as to what the order should exactly be, it just needs actual thought put into it (which given by the current order that really hasn't been considered much).

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I use AdBlock AND FlashBlock. Why? Because animated ads annoy me. I don't like flashing colors and I don't like seeing movement when I'm trying to concentrate on a fixed point. Plus, I have been the victim of viruses that came from ads and my computer is too old to be dealing with avoidable problems.

[Fuzzbucket]

With great respect - I DO block ALL flash and I have even completely disabled Java (no NOT javascript; I do know the difference). I still get warnings from my AV on some pages with neither one operating. I'm NOT disabling adblock. I value it.

 

Some google ads in this very forum have infected people in the past. And some are - gross, p-graphic, sexist and the rest. I don't want to see them thank you very much. I do sometimes chip in randomly, to help keep the site going - I would rather do that - but I don't have the cash every month, so....

 

As to the two column thing - it is a very short page; why could it not stay as it was ? I am told that people using on mobiles can't even SEE all the actions. It wasn't broken; why "fix it" ?

 

And yes - the order of actions is nuts, to put it mildly. OK the guy was careless, but someone has already frozen a hatchie he meant to name snd is very upset.

[Rhowyn]

Gonna chime in here and say I'm also displeased about this. I find the new page extremely messy and would really like to see it changed back. It's just so much easier to navigate for me that way.

 

As for the adblock. I'm not paying $5 a month to block ads on the site when my adblocker addon does it for free. I have no qualms donating to pet sites, but I won't throw money at a site for something I don't need or don't want.

 

In addition, I am less inclined to financially support a website that won't fix (from what FortyTwo said) a simple issue to make their site more accessible to EVERYONE. I shouldn't have to bend over backwards to play here (not that I can play with my adblock turned off because of lag issues from ads) just because there's some work around. I'm not using another skin (no offense, but I find the other skins to be undesirable, I prefer the default) and I'm not turning off my adblock permanently for DC.

 

Anyway, just wanted to add my voice to those speaking out.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Snowqueen

[Kovia]

Agree with what has been said: Not liking the new actions page. I get used to buttons being in specific places and don't like changing the layout on sites I play. I keep hitting hide instead of abandon now, and the skin I'm used to doesn't work so I'm forced to use Blackout which covers up part of lineages on large even-gens (grr!).

Not even sure what this update was for, if it was supposed to make it look better or what but it's causing way more trouble than it's worth. I don't think anyone has ever said they didn't like how the actions page was laid out.

 

Also, with the whole adblock thing, everything everyone has said. I use my dad's computer and he hates anyone messing with the settings so I can't turn off adblock even if I wanted too.

Another thing, turning off adblock puts people at a disadvantage. Whenever people are hunting in the biomes for CB stuff, that extra lag caused by ads can and will make them miss out on eggs. If you want CB rares or new releases, you can't afford ad lag.

[Beldarius]

...Like other people before me, I'm actually pretty sure it's the footer doing all this. I blocked the footer with the instructions from the "help" thread and everything is working fine with the default skin now.

 

I gather that thing is too large for the site and it blocks everything but the two top actions - kinda like a sheet of glass that stops you from touching things.

 

PS. I don't have a problem with the two-column layout. I can get used to things like this pretty easily, I only had a problem with the unclickable links but now that blocking the footer fixed it... *shrug*

Edited September 28, 2014 by Beldarius

[Herk]

Simple solution - Block the footer.

 

If you don't have the Element Hiding Helper, just add this to your AdBlock rule list manually:

dragcave.net###footer

 

Until TJ fixes the problem, this is probably the best band-aid fix.

Just a reminder

[Fuzzbucket]

I would like to know WHY the change was made. Is there actually any benefit to it - for anyone ?

[Jazeki]

I prefer the initial action page layout to be honest. The differing length of the action descriptions gives an illusion of uneven spacing.

 

Also, I don't believe that people are having a problem just with flash ads. It seems to be with the content of a lot of the ads. Yes, users can click the little 'x' box to tell Google that they don't want any more similar ads, but it is easier to disable the ads entirely instead of constantly adjusting ad settings. I paid for a year long subscription to eliminate the problem, but some people cannot afford or are not allowed to pay money to turn ads off. There are also others who don't want to pay. They shouldn't have to.

 

If TJ wants to continue to supplement expenses for this site, I encourage him to consider using a different ad revenue provider other than Google Ads on the main site. For example, he could use Project Wonderful and change the advertising settings so that DC would only display static or text-based ads that are suitable for all audiences.

 

But the spiels about the necessity of ad revenue aren't going to suddenly change wary users' minds against using Adblock or any other blocking add-ons because users will more often consider the safety of their systems over the financial benefits for the site.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Jazeki

[maylin]

I'm not having any problems actions work find for me,I do have adblocker but i never use it for sites I support it how you guys make yalls money, so that we can be here. Does everyone expect TJ to pay out of pocket for us to collect dragons? I don't even pay any attention to the ads my mind blocks them for me so that I don't really have too lol I did not even realize there were ads on dragcave until I was browsing Account settings and saw the Advertisement Removal Subscription thing and I was like "what there are ads?" *looks around* "oh there are never noticed them"

 

 

I did like the other look better with all the actions on one side though.

[Rhowyn]

Does everyone expect TJ to pay out of pocket for us to collect dragons?

That isn't the issue here at all. Just because you're capable of ignoring the ads or have a system that isn't affected negatively by them, doesn't mean everyone else should have to suffer or pay money to be equal to you. Or more importantly than that, open their systems to malware and viruses to play an online game! None of the pet sites I frequent make me go out of my way to use basic features of their site and DC, if it values its member base, shouldn't either!

[pinkgothic]

I am less inclined to financially support a website that won't fix (from what FortyTwo said) a simple issue to make their site more accessible to EVERYONE.

 

I'm confused. Where did FortyTwo say TJ isn't doing anything? Did I miss it? (Honest question.) I know he posted how it can be fixed, but I don't think anyone claimed TJ is deliberately not doing anything... and if that was someone's opinion, unless they know the site admin, that's all it is. Their opinion.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Give it some time. I'm sure it'll be fixed. TJ isn't here 24/7.

 

Relax.

 

----

 

Another thing I'm confused about is people who assume this is some spiel to get people to buy an ad-free subscription. Surely that wouldn't fix the issue? I was having the same issue with Portal 2 before it was fixed there - I don't use adblock, I just have the subscription. That was enough to make the footer cover most of the actions. So that being the result of some push to get people to stop using adblock wouldn't make a lot of sense - if anything, it's currently a reason not to make that payment. (Unless the adblock and the subscription cause the page to style differently on the default skin. I can't really verify that, myself.)

[Melisande]

I don't use an add blocker and I have no problem with the adds. I do not use a custom layout. I do have the site zoomed in because of a medical problem that effects my vision.

 

That being said, I again state that I hate the new layout!

 

- It looks messy

- We do not have a lot of actions, so there really is no need for 2 columns

- It's hard to find actions you want to use that have been in one place for years.

- The position of the actions on the list is not consistent between egg - hatchling - frozen hatchling - and adult for similar / same actions.

- Actions seem to have no logical order in which they are placed in.

- Not all the custom skins work with the new page layout

- Not all the actions are clickable when using a different page size view (like having it zoomed in for those with a medical problem)

- Not able to click on links on Mobile App

- Footer keeps moving up into the action list

- Nothing on the page actually changed other than a more confusing layout, nothing was added or taken away, so it feels like this change had no real purpose.

- People are saying they will leave the game because of the changes, which makes a visual "tweak" a huge problem.

- Things that are not broken do not need to be fixed. The actions page was not broken before, but it is now.

 

These are the reasons I do not like this and why I would like it fixed please. A lot of people who have been playing this game for years are unhappy with this change that really was not necessary.

 

Please, Please, Please, Please, Please x 100 TJ. Please put the page back to normal. A lot of users can't use their actions at all because of this, or have to do work arounds with page coding and such.

 

It's really unfair to the players to have such a negative change that does not impact game play in any positive way. There was no need for this change, and seeing as it has been such a stress point for so many people I am asking for it to please be reversed to the former layout for the page which worked properly, was easy to use, and looked nice.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Melisande

[Rhowyn]

I'm confused. Where did FortyTwo say TJ isn't doing anything? Did I miss it? (Honest question.) I know he posted how it can be fixed, but I don't think anyone claimed TJ is deliberately not doing anything... and if that was someone's opinion, unless they know the site admin, that's all it is. Their opinion.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Give it some time. I'm sure it'll be fixed. TJ isn't here 24/7.

 

Relax.

I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. Just the general vibe I got is that they don't care about those of us whose adblock is "the culprit".

 

There was no purposeful change to spite people with certain addons. But if the site doesn't work with a certain addon, that's the fault of the addon, not the site.

 

If you have disabled all of your addons - including adblock, noscript, etc. - or anything else you have which affects the way sites are displayed or your interaction with them and see no change, try clearing your cookies and restarting your computer and seeing if that prompts the actions to work.

 

I understand wanting to use adblock. If you don't want to disable it, you have a few options: use a different skin (at least when doing actions - Blackout seems to be working for people the most reliably), disable adblock when you want to use actions and enable it after you've used the actions, or purchase DC's adfree option which is not too expensive.

 

Since the posts in here are getting too mixed - people with issues with the site and people who are giving feedback on the site - I'm going to go ahead and close this topic. If you've followed my above advice (second paragraph) and still have problems, please PM me. I will start a new thread with specific guidelines so we can try and solve your problem!

 

Guys, I closed the last thread because actual bugs were getting hidden by feedback messages. This thread is if you have disabled all addons, cleared your cache, and are still having problems. Please keep feedback to the Suggestions/Section. If I have to, I will begin giving out warns for derailing in this thread so we can easily find the folk who have disabled addons, cleared their cache, and still can't use addons. I am not saying you all have to be happy with this problem, but this is not the thread for it.

 

If you are having this problem, please post a screenshot.

 

What I take from that is that the staff are blaming the adblock, not the site's layout and therefore don't intend to fix that. They don't even want to hear from people who can turn off adblock (or change skins) to get the links to work and that seems wrong to me.

 

If they DO fix the problem, then obviously my statement would be invalid. But if they don't, then why should I feel inclined to pay money for a fix when others don't have to?

Edited September 28, 2014 by Snowqueen

[Jazeki]

 

Another thing I'm confused about is people who assume this is some spiel to get people to buy an ad-free subscription. Surely that wouldn't fix the issue? I was having the same issue with Portal 2 before it was fixed there - I don't use adblock, I just have the subscription. That was enough to make the footer cover most of the actions. So that being the result of some push to get people to stop using adblock wouldn't make a lot of sense - if anything, it's currently a reason not to make that payment. (Unless the adblock and the subscription cause the page to style differently on the default skin. I can't really verify that, myself.)

I was referring to the use of advertisements in general (or the purchase of ad block subscriptions) to get extra revenue for the site, not whether or not it has anything to do with the current site issues.

[whitebaron]

I find it really pathetic that people think this change is about getting them to disable adblock.

 

Layouting webpages is a complex matter, and even if a fix for such a thing is easily implemented, it might not have occured to the author at all that this would even BE a problem.

 

 

That said: Adblock messes with the html, and thus - don't expect sites to support adblock at all. After all, it ruins their page, and their revenue, and you want them to HELP YOU?

 

BIG PFFFT.

[Obscure_Trash]

I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. Just the general vibe I got is that they don't care about those of us whose adblock is "the culprit".

 

 

 

 

 

What I take from that is that the staff are blaming the adblock, not the site's layout and therefore don't intend to fix that. They don't even want to hear from people who can turn off adblock (or change skins) to get the links to work and that seems wrong to me.

TJ already knows about the problem with adblock. What we're looking for in Help threads is what the problem is for people who have it disabled (or plain don't have it) and still having the problem so that can be solved. If we really wanted to shut down all discussion on user thoughts on adblock and the fact that you all are having issues with it, this thread would have been cleaned/closed as well. However, hoards of posts about "I am not disabling adblock" are not helpful in the help topic. They are burying the issues of folks who are having a problem that we don't know the cause of.

[Moranna]

I do not like the new layout for the Actions page. It is very hard to read and too easy to click the wrong thing. There was nothing that knew of that was broken in the original layout. Change for change's sake isn't always for the best.

[blah]

I don't mind having two columns at all, I'll get used to that. I do think the order of the actions could be improved though, like "hide" should be first, then "abandon" etc. Sorted by the frequency people are probably using it.

 

About the adblock thing - I did actually disable adblock just to try it out. Clicking on the action links on the actions page took me to spam/ad sites. I do NOT mean clicking on the ads did this, just regular playing caused it.

 

I don't care why this happened to me, whether it is my fault, DC's fault, googleads fault, whatever. Adblock is switched back on.

[Fuzzbucket]

TJ already knows about the problem with adblock. What we're looking for in Help threads is what the problem is for people who have it disabled (or plain don't have it) and still having the problem so that can be solved. If we really wanted to shut down all discussion on user thoughts on adblock and the fact that you all are having issues with it, this thread would have been cleaned/closed as well. However, hoards of posts about "I am not disabling adblock" are not helpful in the help topic. They are burying the issues of folks who are having a problem that we don't know the cause of.

TJ could always put it back the way it was. We all - including him - know that that worked just fine.

 

And leaving all the issues aside - the new layout is neither user friendly nor attractive to look at.