Question about a trade?

[jumpsnake]

OrcaFreak, I'd see your wishlist and be turned off. Here's why: I can't make the very valuable dragons you want. And anyone with them will not trade for what you have, probably. :/

 

For the CBs- I don't know if you mean you want hatchlings, since you have males and females listed, or if you want eggs-- in which case I'd have to go catch the eggs, then send you a pm that I had them, then we'd have to wait however long until they were off cooldown and I was back online to send them to you.

 

Not a huge amount of trouble, maybe, but enough to turn me off if I was just looking through the trading threads to see what was out there.

 

I'd suggest being more specific: "I'll take 2 or 3 of the CBs on my wishlist for one of these eggs." or "If you are willing to raise 2 gendered CB commons for one of these eggs send me a pm."

[Fuzzbucket]

Funny...when I tried trading a CB Red Copper and a Cheese for one, I never got any offers aside for two whole days, and in the end I ended up having to take four one-day hatchies.

 

What are 2nd-gen Avatars worth now?

Not a lot. I ended up posting mine in the departures thread (It was one I bred by accident - as in it would have been inbred for the line I was making.)

[Ha-Ki]

What can a CB Gold hatchling, CB Ice hatchling, CB Magma egg and Blusang egg get me?  I've had the offer up for a while and I've narrowed it down to a few offers, but I'm still wondering how much it's actually worth.  Is it worth a CB Neglected and/or low gen tinsels and shimmers?

No doubt it's worth any of these (not more than one though), the problem is to find someone to trade with. Neglecteds are not easy to make, and most cb prize owners keep lists, so the challenge is rather to find someone with an open list.

 

I have this up for trade for 24h now. Not one offer so far.

Before this trade, I had a similar copper up, but as a hatchie. The hatchie grow up on my scroll without a single offer.

My wish list is quite long, and there are a lot of easy things on it.

 

So is this only happening to me, or is it overall becoming really hard to trade anything that isn't CB or a prize?

The only well-tradeable egg in your offer is the pb silver imo - coppers breed well and even though cb ones are rare, bred ones are often given away for free. 3rd gen avatars are not worth anything unless they have a really exceptional lineage (which a stair with bluesangs is not).

If I look at your wishlist, it starts with 2nd gen avatars, holidays and 2nd gen prizes. In value, none of these is even close to what you're offering (would you pay a 2nd gen avatar for a 3rd gen one?). Even if I was interested in your trade, I would give up and stop reading your wishlist at that point. You might consider asking for more specific things, like "any x common hatchies from my wishlist".

 

Edit: lol, did something else in between and was totally 'd

Edited August 20, 2014 by Ha-Ki

[Fuzzbucket]

For OrcaFreak, the dragons on your wishlist vary widely in terms of value (from 2G prize dragons to CB commons) so I think giving the person a clearer idea of how much exactly you're looking for would help.

 

Yes indeed. It isn't at all clear if you mean you would accept - say - a single 2 gen avatar for an egg, or whether one has to turn out a full four, for instance. Be specific.

 

Honestly speaking, I don't really see a problem with the current trading system, but I think it'd be interesting to get a second opinion on the general situation

I DO see a problem - people are asking for the moon all the time and it is getting very tedious. For instance the large number of people asking for a 2 gen prize. People with those mostly have huge lists already. Someone the other day was asked for 256 undine hatchlings for a CB gold - and almost went for it... Most trade threads now involve CB or PB metals.... it is sad - it used to be fun trading, but it rarely is now.

[whitebaron]

My main problem with trades is not the people who offer nice stuff, its the entitlement of people who want nice stuff.

 

I sell 3g shimmers for way over a year now. People expect to get 2gs with what is barely enough for a 3g, setting up a problem for trades - because i won't sell a 3g shimmer below whats equal worth for a cb metal to me. And yes, this does not mean you need only cb metals, but people are lazy and dont like to work.

 

So when i do get offers like 2 crimson hatchies, guess what i'll do in the long run? Take those kind of wants off my list.

 

 

---

besides: nice lineages are not what they used to be. Its not that they got less nice, but you have so many more options, that i will NEVER bother to trade for a nice checker that i dont breed myself as a project. What use is a nice line you can neither showcase nor breed?

[lazybug]

I DO see a problem - people are asking for the moon all the time and it is getting very tedious. For instance the large number of people asking for a 2 gen prize. People with those mostly have huge lists already. Someone the other day was asked for 256 undine hatchlings for a CB gold - and almost went for it... Most trade threads now involve CB or PB metals.... it is sad - it used to be fun trading, but it rarely is now.

Woah, the dude asked for how many hatchies?

 

I sell 3g shimmers for way over a year now. People expect to get 2gs with what is barely enough for a 3g, setting up a problem for trades - because i won't sell a 3g shimmer below whats equal worth for a cb metal to me. And yes, this does not mean you need only cb metals, but people are lazy and dont like to work.

 

I think the main problem here is that inexperienced traders seriously over-valuing their catch, but I don't think that's a problem due to our trading system.

 

One thing you can blame on the trading system is the hierarchal system -- 2G prizes and CB metals are some of the rarest, most valuable dragons on the site and everybody seems to be chasing after them. New players see this great demand and too wish to own such desirable dragons. However I feel this problem is inherent in everything where some giving and some taking is happening. It's a natural construction that evolves from our desire to ensure we don't get taken advantage of.

 

That said, if anyone knows what is the problem specific to our system that propagates such behaviour, or flaws in my logic, please point it out I just had exams today and am very taxed so I may have missed an important point.

 

(I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative or anything -- I don't wish to start a catfight, just a healthy debate. I see a lot of simmering dissatisfaction with "the trading system" and wish it wasn't so.

 

(I don't want Dragon Cave to cease to be fun for frustrated people like OrcaFreak or oddsoxdi, leading to a decline in the userbase and the game in general )

 

besides: nice lineages are not what they used to be. Its not that they got less nice, but you have so many more options, that i will NEVER bother to trade for a nice checker that i dont breed myself as a project. What use is a nice line you can neither showcase nor breed?

I totally agree with you, sir. I remember last Christmas I got two good offers on a trade: pretty-lineaged EG Holly and a 4G shimmer from a rare line. I actually preferred the Holly, but in the end picked the 4G shimmer because it had a higher "resale" value -- that is, you can breed it and profit, but I couldn't breed the Holly without messing up the lineage. (Looking back -- and several CB metal catches and ~3 3G prizes later -- I regret my choice T_T I guess pretty lineages still have some kind of value if only to certain groups of people.)

Edited August 20, 2014 by lazybug

[OrcaFreak]

@ Lazybug: I'm not frustrated, just confused sometimes

 

 

 

I guess specifying what you want can solve part of my problem, but on the other hand I find it more annoying.

By specifying what you want, you automatically exclude a lot of people from trading with you.

Just because I still have this very long wish list (with lot's of easy stuff) I always want to give people with few/less valuable dragons a chance to get their hands on a nice 2nd metal. So if someone like that offers me 2/3 common CB's: I rather take that offer instead of the more rare one from someone that already has a large number of similar dragons like the one I'm trading.

The other reason I refer to my wish list like I did, is because I'm never sure what a certain egg/hatchie is worth; and so the one that wants it, can offer me what he/she thinks it's worth.

 

About the overvalued eggs: That's what I call frustrating. When you have a slower internet connection or not that much time to stalk the cave. It's nearly impossible to get your hands on a CB metal. And your chances of ever getting a low gen prize are not that big either.

(Before you ask: the CB metals on my scroll came from being very lucky in the cave, only one came from a trade)

 

Specifically about the things I have up for trade that basically started this, let's call it debate:

Really? A 2nd gen PB copper is worthless. I don't find them easy to breed at all. My pair refuses to come near each other 3/4 of the time I try to breed them.

3th gen avatar, worthless? Seriously? Then I would like to know the trick to breed avatars. The only 2nd gen avatar I have was donated to me by a very friendly member. Half the time it doesn't want to come close to its mate, or breeds me a non-avatar egg. My only GoN refuses to breed 75% of the time; and when it does breed, it produces either no egg or a non-avatar egg. I have to go through a lot of trouble to finally get that 3th gen egg, it's a clean lineage with a semi-rare breed, and nicely named ancestors; and it's worth nothing

 

I have no problem with there being some kind of hierarchy when it comes to valuable trade offers; but someone really should take the time to write it all down, because right now, I don't understand anything of it And I'm absolutely not surprised when new members find it discouraging; not worth the trouble to try and figure it all out; and don't become active because of it.

[pinkgothic]

I guess specifying what you want can solve part of my problem, but on the other hand I find it more annoying.

By specifying what you want, you automatically exclude a lot of people from trading with you.

 

You'll probably exclude more people by not specifying what sort of offer you're expecting, unfortunately, because of the psychological effect. If you expressly want to be as open as possible about it, I'd recommend being specific, but adding something along the lines of 'if you don't have that, don't be shy; PM me and we can work something out', or 'will not be keeping these eggs either way, feel free to gamble a bit'.

 

I wrote up some trading tips a few months ago. Sometimes those are useful. See if that helps you?

Edited August 20, 2014 by pinkgothic

[Myra the Sark]

I DO see a problem - people are asking for the moon all the time and it is getting very tedious. For instance the large number of people asking for a 2 gen prize. People with those mostly have huge lists already. Someone the other day was asked for 256 undine hatchlings for a CB gold - and almost went for it... Most trade threads now involve CB or PB metals.... it is sad - it used to be fun trading, but it rarely is now.

I've noticed that too.

 

Recently I've been considering just not bothering with trades anymore...people are being so unreasonable it's not even funny. Not everyone can get 2nd-gen Prizes and CB Metals every day, yet they ignore that fact. It's just being very unfair.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Myra the Sark

[PolarVortex]

To me the problem is that so many of us have been playing forever and there just isn't anything we need except really rare stuff! In my own case, the only things left on my wishlist are CB metals, CB coppers, neglected, and low-gen prizes... so I'm sorta stuck. Most everything else I can catch or breed for myself (or don't need more of).

 

 

[Suzumiya]

What do I have to have to get 3 more yellow Undines at this point? I have a TON of green 2nd gens, a CB Ice, and a CB pillow. Are people wanting multiple CB metals for these right now? I don't have a single one, so how am I supposed to get a yellow Undine with what I have? I want at least three so badly. Heck, I wouldn't even say no to just one.

 

What do I need to trade for one? If I have to, I will stay up til 4am hunting the caves for CB metals just to get a single yellow undine, but I thought these were like alt vines/alt blacks. And I know I can get one of those for a CB Ice plus many other hatchlings. I'm just so frustrated I don't know what to do. Any help would be appreciated so much.

 

Edit: The yellow undines on my scroll were VERY HARD trades. I had to give up many rares just to get 2.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Yunako

[ZzelaBusya]

What do I have to have to get 3 more yellow Undines at this point? I have a TON of green 2nd gens, a CB Ice, and a CB pillow. Are people wanting multiple CB metals for these right now? I don't have a single one, so how am I supposed to get a yellow Undine with what I have? I want at least three so badly. Heck, I wouldn't even say no to just one.

 

What do I need to trade for one? If I have to, I will stay up til 4am hunting the caves for CB metals just to get a single yellow undine, but I thought these were like alt vines/alt blacks. And I know I can get one of those for a CB Ice plus many other hatchlings. I'm just so frustrated I don't know what to do. Any help would be appreciated so much.

 

Edit: The yellow undines on my scroll were VERY HARD trades. I had to give up many rares just to get 2.

As a matter of fact, you have 14 Yellow Undines already, most 2nd gen - that's more than a lot of people managed to get so far. It might be more difficult to get them now, but from my experience the pricing hasn't changed significantly during the last couple of days. A 4th gen Prize could get you one, a CB Ice I find fair as well, personally, but getting an offer may require some luck because those guys are Alts and people are still actively looking for them.

 

Bred Green Undines wouldn't be a fair trade for a Yellow one, I'd say, same goes with CB Pillow.

 

Constant questions about the same thing during a short time frame create an impression of an attempt to simply obtain more of whatever dragon from generous users around.

 

*shuts up*

Edited August 20, 2014 by ZzelaBusya

[Suzumiya]

As a matter of fact, you have 14 Yellow Undines already, most 2nd gen - that's more than a lot of people managed to get so far. It might be more difficult to get them now, but from my experience the pricing hasn't changed significantly during the last couple of days. A 4th gen Prize could get you one, a CB Ice I find fair as well, personally, but getting an offer may require some luck because those guys are Alts and people are still actively looking for them.

As I said, the Yellows I have were gifts from trading all the rares I'd managed to catch in a week, except for 2 that hatched when people were getting yellows with every egg. These are my favorite types of dragons, and I just can't seem to get anymore. Blacks used to be my favorite (normal blacks) and I have over 50. I know I will never get near that with Yellows, but I at least want to try and equal the amount of greens I have. I hate the green ones and consider them trade fodder or "Take An Egg, Leave an Egg" fodder.

 

I was just wondering HOW to get them now. CB Ice is NOT fair according to a person I just PM'd. She wanted 2 CB silvers for ONE of her yellows. I'm just wondering, is THAT the new price on them? If so, then well, what is equal to two CB silvers? I HAVE NO prizes lower than 5th gen, so I can't do prizes. I have ONE CB silver, but she is an adult and the person wouldn't take a 2nd gen silver.

 

I've seen people with 30+ Yellows and I just wonder how they got them. I'm only shooting for 20, not 50+ like I was with blacks.

 

Edit: I have two GoNs. Are 2nd gen Avatars worth one yellow if I offer them a choice of mate?

 

Also, I'm not begging any one. I seriously want actual ANSWERS instead of people saying "they're alts, it's random".

Edited August 20, 2014 by Yunako

[ZzelaBusya]

As I said, the Yellows I have were gifts from trading all the rares I'd managed to catch in a week, except for 2 that hatched when people were getting yellows with every egg. These are my favorite types of dragons, and I just can't seem to get anymore. Blacks used to be my favorite (normal blacks) and I have over 50. I know I will never get near that with Yellows, but I at least want to try and equal the amount of greens I have. I hate the green ones and consider them trade fodder or "Take An Egg, Leave an Egg" fodder.

 

I was just wondering HOW to get them now. CB Ice is NOT fair according to a person I just PM'd. She wanted 2 CB silvers for ONE of her yellows. I'm just wondering, is THAT the new price on them? If so, then well, what is equal to two CB silvers? I HAVE NO prizes lower than 5th gen, so I can't do prizes. I have ONE CB silver, but she is an adult and the person wouldn't take a 2nd gen silver.

 

I've seen people with 30+ Yellows and I just wonder how they got them. I'm only shooting for 20, not 50+ like I was with blacks.

You don't have to explain yourself, it's just that I don't understand why you'd have reasons to complain - I mean, you've managed to get a very decent collection of those already, it's very impressive. So far I've got four via trading, lol, been offering 2nd gen Metals and 4th gen Prizes, and I'm just hoping that eventually the craze will die down a little and it'll be easier to trade for them.

People who've got tons of them may have been lucky with breeding, or may have possibly given something very rare in exchange, like a 3rd gen Prize or a CB Metal. Doesn't mean it's the only thing that's possible to trade for them, it's just good as a method of getting the desired dragon quicklier if you've got nothing better to do with your uber-rares, lol. Personally I wouldn't let myself trade a CB Metal for new releases, unless those new releases are equal to them in value, which definitely doesn't seem to be the case with Undines.

 

There's no exact method of getting them, mostly about luck at this point as I understand it, because they are 1) rare, as Alts and 2) popular, as a relatively new breed.

Don't get desperate and try to get a CB Metal or something for the purpose of Undine trading - Yellow Undines are no way worth those, unless you'd require multiples for one. It's just that some traders are still trying to get very rare stuff in exchange because of Yellow Undines' popularity at this point. Things will settle. ^^

 

I've managed to get a couple for 4th gen Prizes recently, I'd say it could still be possible. A 2nd gen Metal, a CB Trio or such would be fair, too. Just my opinion of course, so if they've indeed turned into CB-Metal equivalents, please smack me somebody.

 

EDIT: 2nd gen Avatars, their value has decreased. I wouldn't exchange a Yellow Undine for one, but perhaps someone who's looking for a specific pairing would perform that trade? Not sure.

 

About random - makes perfect sense actually, because it *is* quite random...

Edited August 20, 2014 by ZzelaBusya

[Suzumiya]

Thank you for the kind and understanding response, really. It's better than the trolling replies I sometimes get. You know, "ALTS R RARE, U NO!!!". And yes, one yellow was traded for a 2nd gen Avatar of Destruction from CB black. I have so many 2nd gen Avatars that trading them really means nothing to me. I hope Yellow Undines end up that way.

[Sany]

Just relax really. Like many people said, trade value will go down. They only got released 2 weeks ago, you have plenty of time getting more yellows!

And be happy you got yellows already, even if the trades were hard.

[Suzumiya]

Just relax really. Like many people said, trade value will go down. They only got released 2 weeks ago, you have plenty of time getting more yellows!

And be happy you got yellows already, even if the trades were hard.

Hey, I can't relax! It took me two years to finally get a black/vine alt! I don't want Yellow Undies to turn out to be like that!

[whitebaron]

this thread perfectly proves my point, that those wanting stuff desperately are often a lot more unreasonable than those that actually, you know, have that desired stuff.

 

let's take the green copper for example. its about as hard to catch as a cb silver, yet people try to trade them for trios or unbreedables. Then get upset if they don't get what they wanted.

[Ha-Ki]

Specifically about the things I have up for trade that basically started this, let's call it debate:

Really? A 2nd gen PB copper is worthless. I don't find them easy to breed at all. My pair refuses to come near each other 3/4 of the time I try to breed them.

3th gen avatar, worthless? Seriously? Then I would like to know the trick to breed avatars. The only 2nd gen avatar I have was donated to me by a very friendly member. Half the time it doesn't want to come close to its mate, or breeds me a non-avatar egg. My only GoN refuses to breed 75% of the time; and when it does breed, it produces either no egg or a non-avatar egg. I have to go through a lot of trouble to finally get that 3th gen egg, it's a clean lineage with a semi-rare breed, and nicely named ancestors; and it's worth nothing

I'll try to explain this a bit better, since I think you might have misunderstood my last post.

 

I didn't mean to say your 2nd gen copper or your 3rd gen avatar are worthless - they are just not good trade fodder, because the demand for them is low. I can totally feel your pain, I had a 3rd gen pb gold up for trade a couple of weeks ago just to have it grow up on my scroll with no offers.

 

The reasons why the demand for certain eggs or lineages is low differs with each case: My pb gold would have been hard to continue because breeding pb golds is a real pain (the pair gave me 2 eggs since september '13, and I breed them almost weekly) - people don't want to waste their time with simething like that, so they don't trade for it.

 

In the case of 2nd gen coppers: You can easily get them for free if you ask in one of the gifting threads or stalk the departure thread. So people don't bother to trade for them, because if they need them, they can get some free ones later.

 

About the avatar: stairstep lineages are not extremely popular, because they are easy to produce. A lineage that shows you put in time and dedication to build it is worth more. The only reason why stairs are so popular with prize dragons is that people can't have a cb one, so they try to keep the lineages as compact and tidy as possible. For all other dragon breeds, stairsteps are not popular. Besides, even 2nd gen avatars have dropped in value - someone reported earlier they had to gift theirs because there were no offers. I think people simply have the avatars they wanted by now.

[Suzumiya]

Just my opinion of course, so if they've indeed turned into CB-Metal equivalents, please smack me somebody.

For the Alt Undine

I will gladly keep this one this one unless someone wants to offer CB Gold for it

 

/smack

 

See? I am not lying. THIS is what people want for their Yellow Undines. This person from the trade had 20 yellow undines and will not trade a single one for anything less than a CB Gold.

[Nectaris]

What are dinos going for these days?

[Suzumiya]

What are dinos going for these days?

I traded a Green Dino for a CB Trio. That sounds fair to me, but I don't know what others consider fair. I also traded a yellow dino for a 3rd gen male Pillow hatchie (PB EG, and I already had a yellow dino). It prolly depends on what you actually WANT when you're trading the dino or what the person wants when they're trading it.

[Tehya Faye]

Just because some people are asking for CB Metals in exchange for their Yellow Undines doesn't mean that they're worth that much. Rare catchers can easily just stalk the AP for low time 2nd gen Undine eggs to incubate and hatch for their yellows. I found mine doing that - somebody's Yellow misgendered (perhaps) and I snagged it right out of there.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Tehya Faye

[Myra the Sark]

Would I be able to get a CB Green Copper by offering a Paper, CB Blusang, and a CB Brown Copper?

[lollipop00]

So I am trading a CB Silver and I have an offer of 1 2nd gen. Avatar. Are Avatars equal to CB Metallics or is that offer too low ? I do like 2nd gen. Avatars but I want some advice first