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[Imbecamiel]

And yet people still ask because they don't know what happened. Someone might assume that it was something that happened far enough in the past that there isn't any new chatter about it, not that it is a forbidden topic.

 

Mm, that is the issue I've seen happen - people new to the forums coming on, and just asking out of curiosity, "Hey, I really loved the Frills. Can anyone tell me why they're gone now?"... And then being surprised and bewildered by the strength of the response, and how quickly the discussion was shut down.

 

I can totally understand the mods wanting to keep a close rein on things, not let it devolve into an opportunity for drama and airing grievances. But I do also see that situations like that are prone to scare off newer members, who perceive it as being really uptight about unwritten rules and taboo subjects - and feel like they need to tiptoe around, for fear of stumbling upon something they weren't supposed to mention.

 

*shrug* Not that I have a great solution for things or anything, but I do see how it could affect the perception of the forums as unfriendly to newcomers.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Imbecamiel

[Rally Vincent]

What I dislike most is that threads tend to be closed just for the "drama they cause" (and lets not fool ourselves - it happened often enough). Unless the thread itself is aimed to cause drama, the appropriate action would be to warn and - if necessary - temp-ban users who cannot or aren't willing to stick to forum rules. I don't see why all the members that are willing to argue in a civilized manner and have interest in the topic should be punished for the misbehavior of others.

 

If things have gotten out of hand, then close the thread temporarely, take the appropriate actions against violation of forum rules, and reopen the thread.

At this point, I'd like to quote what I wrote in this very thread about closing threads "for the drama".

 

Now, it is again "But it is drama!". If there is drama, hand out warnings/tempbans to those who break rules and let other users who don't violate forum rules discuss what they want to discuss.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Rally Vincent

[deathclaw]

well

1 i feel that my ideas are always rejected i dont care wether you mods like them or not just accept them theyre not rude who knows some other people may like them too not all of us are bookworms some of us are guys that are gamers like yours truly me! if you allow ideas that arent rude even that you dont like them the forum will be better trust me

 

2 well i too am a admin and a creator of a game maybe you can allow cooler bsas into DC it would be more popular like sterlization once suggested but rejected which was a excellent idea another good one would be sprit eye that would be for white dragons make the game more action like then people will play it more often or make it like runescape or even call of duty make it so you do something in it

 

3 why is every rp i go to always humans and modern it is bland just looking make some like call of duty rps or runescape rps or even little big planet or make a dragon only rp no boring clans how bout actual guilds that are nice and friendly to everybody and forgive people for their mistakes thats what i like not mean people that are jerks and get angry for 1 mistake ~ Incendiary Content Removed ~

 

4 okay ill try to keep this short but have on the actual game private servers and even mods make it more known where people can mod their dragons and create their own custom bsas and their own worlds with their own events

 

thats all i have to say sorry if it seemed like whining but it wasnt just constructive criticism

Edited June 30, 2011 by LadyLyzar

[NixAyum]

And yet people still ask because they don't know what happened. Someone might assume that it was something that happened far enough in the past that there isn't any new chatter about it, not that it is a forbidden topic.

If someone asks, the situation gets explained and then the topic is closed because it always turns into people going "yeah, I liked the frills too, wish they were brought back/I HATE THAT THE FRILLS ARE GONE/let's show the artist how much we want them back!" and tangents and whining.

 

Putting it into the rules is either not going to do anything (how much eggspam do you see around the forum by new people?) or make it worse because (if by some slim chance people actually /read/ the rules) they'd ask "well why can't I ask about the frills/what are frills/what happened with the frills that I can't talk about them?"

[LadyLyzar]

Deathclaw, most of your suggestions have nothing to do with the forum. This thread is about feedback for the forum.

 

In addition, many of those things would require a complete rework of the game, which is likely not happening. When you make a suggestion, you need to keep in mind how feasible and realistic it is.

[_Z_]

We have allowed several topics on frills in SD, I do not have a problem with members discussing the topic, as long as members follow the board rules and SD guidelines.

[skinst]

This sounds like the mods need mods. Or perhaps that you'd like the Teej himself to be more accessible. I mean, I'd like that too, but I don't think it'll happen...

 

I sort of think TJ should get some kind of partner, associate... someone from real life who has the same level of authority as he does over DC who can share his workload. Although, from my limited experience working with programmers, that may not be entirely feasible.

Aren't Global Mods supposed to hold a higher position than the regular mods, or am I misinterpreting something here?

 

But yeah, the thread where Kiffren popped in... That discussion WAS PG-13. There was nothing wrong with it. :/ Censor evasion I can see the need for warnings, but that discussion? Perfectly acceptable in the context of the thread. There was no intimate details of what was being discussed.

 

As far as I was aware, discussing adult matters such as sex and are not banned by the forum.

[Wookieinmashoo]

well

1 i feel that my ideas are always rejected i dont care wether you mods like them or not just accept them theyre not rude who knows some other people may like them too not all of us are bookworms some of us are guys that are gamers like yours truly me! if you allow ideas that arent rude even that you dont like them the forum will be better trust me

 

2 well i too am a admin and a creator of a game maybe you can allow cooler bsas into DC it would be more popular like sterlization once suggested but rejected which was a excellent idea another good one would be sprit eye that would be for white dragons make the game more action like then people will play it more often or make it like runescape or even call of duty make it so you do something in it

 

3 why is every rp i go to always humans and modern it is bland just looking make some like call of duty rps or runescape rps or even little big planet or make a dragon only rp no boring clans how bout actual guilds that are nice and friendly to everybody and forgive people for their mistakes thats what i like not mean people that are jerks and get angry for 1 mistake ~ Incendiary Content Removed ~ 

 

4 okay ill try to keep this short but have on the actual game private servers and even mods make it more known where people can mod their dragons and create their own custom bsas and their own worlds with their own events

 

thats all i have to say sorry if it seemed like whining but it wasnt just constructive criticism

I have a hard time reading what you typed, but a lot of people DON'T want the amount of interactivity you are suggesting. A lot of people like how things are simple. So just because your idea was "rejected" does not mean people were being rude...it just simply means no one likes the idea and mods can tell what will not fly with the general DC players.

 

I don't know about roleplays...can't you make your own? And speaking of rudeness, it's not nice to call someone out on the forums. Some people can be mean. The only thing you can do about it is contact the mod about the post you thought was offensive. It's really not the majority of the forum's fault for one person not being nice.

Edited June 30, 2011 by LadyLyzar

[~!~]

I just saw a couple threads where things got a little personal, and the mods came in and were like "if you've got issues, take them to PM."

 

That's perfectly logical. However, from my experience, people can say things in PMs that are not really report-worthy, but you wouldn't really say in a public thread where there's the possibility people might come to the other person's defense. If someone had a beef with me, I would much prefer that they say it in a thread, out in the open, than in a PM.

 

Obviously, allowing this will derail threads, and making threads specifically to discuss the shortcomings of a member are not so hot either, but taking personal issues to the private realm of PMs is dodgy.

 

So yeah, I don't actually have a solution in mind for this, but I'd just like to submit the issue for consideration.

[JOTB]

The PG-13 rule is rather contradictory in itself, as the vast majority of PG-13 works do have swearing in them, include the occasional (starts with an f) (it can be used up to 4 times, I think, usually a non-sexual context.) What with the way the mod's control such discussion I think they should either relax the standards or the forum rules should just change to say keep content PG rated. The thing is, though, the MPAA never actually released specific guidelines they used (while more specific than forum rules they're still pretty vague), and they look at a lot of different factors, including the number of times certain things occur in a film, as well as the context in which swearwords and certain subjects occur.

 

Edit: ^PG rating, that wasn't even used as an expletive. Also I didn't know that constituted censor evasion.

Edited July 1, 2011 by JOTB

[kissxthestarz]

Can you guys add a 'Like' button for replies/comments? Idk, maybe it's because of Facebook lol but I find a lot of times I read replies and want to be like, "I totally agree!" without having to waste a whole reply to say that.

[Dolphinsong]

Can you guys add a 'Like' button for replies/comments? Idk, maybe it's because of Facebook lol but I find a lot of times I read replies and want to be like, "I totally agree!" without having to waste a whole reply to say that.

Sadly that would require TJ to add special coding to the fourms as there is no setting in the admin control panel for such a feature.

[GreenDragonMama]

I have never understood why any forum has a place for off topic and adult conversation.

 

I realize you can't stick to the topics all the time, but that should be for another forum.

 

I think the forum should stick to the DC game and fansites that have to do with the

game.

 

I'd also like to see a better search, I put in topic or something I'm looking for in the search and I come up with posts that have absoutly nothing to do with the topic or works I'm looking for. It seems if for instance I put in "gold dragons", I come up with every post with the word "dragon" or "gold" highlighted in yellow, but I never find

"gold dragons" that I put in to begin with. This makes it so hard to find what we're looking for and it's no wonder there are so many new threads started that are duplicates.

[Obscure_Trash]

Have you check out this: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?s=&ac...ch&CODE=explain ? It may help with some searching. (And as a side note, the search being the way it is explains why we can get so on top of spam. Because then dragons come up in the politics thread and the marriage thread and the counting game thread and no one can ever find what they need. x3 )

[olympe]

Another piece of probably unwanted forum feedback. Z, feel free to close this thread, too. Like every other thread where people state they are less than happy with something. (Ratios, anyone?) Really, it gets annoying to see threads closed and "cleaned" to "give members time to calm down". And it's somewhat less than adequate to delete all posts that even mention the problem in any manner at all.

 

Criticism, especially justified criticism, is part of a forum where people discuss a game. Shutting down thread after thread does not help people feel that they are being understood, does not solve anything and only helps to anger the people involved. So, please stop closing threads just because you can.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Edit: Just for reference, the thread I'm talking about: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=114756&st=920

Plus the Tiny Little Questions thread, which has lost quite a few posts related to the very same problem beforehand...

Edited July 16, 2011 by olympe

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Thank you olympe.

 

I've already had 2 threads locked/wiped and recieved a warning because I'm not afraid to state facts and have an opinion.

 

Ignoring the problem will NOT make it go away. DC has a problem and until TJ faces facts AND his members, the problem will continue to get worse.

 

This may be TJ's site, but that does not make TJ god, nor does it make it impossible for TJ to make a mistake or be wrong about something.

 

I just got ganged up on in the chatroom by a bunch of TJ fanfreaks because I have an opinion. When you have a dozen or so folk coming at you and never giving you time to respond to one question, before they're throwing another at you...... yes, it got out of hand and maybe I became a bit hysterical.. but I'm only one person and I had multiple folk coming after me. So I left before things got really bad and it devolved into flaming.

 

I am NOT alone. I am not the only person asking for answers. I'm just not afraid to speak up about it and I don't care if I get repeatedly warned, because I have questions and I want answers from TJ. NOT from the TJ fanfreaks, from TJ himself.. and I want it in language I can understand and not a bunch of bull about the coding. Coding is hard, I know this.. but it does not mean that I am stupid because I don't know how to code.

[Obscure_Trash]

We don't close threads for stating opinions. We close threads when people start to break the rules:

 

Respect Others

It isn't possible to get far in the world if you refuse to respect others. Treat others kindly, don't insult them, and others will do the same in return. If you refuse to treat others well, then you will get not only a warning, but a bad reputation, which opens the door for more negativity.

 

To give people time to calm down, rather than continuously hand out warn after warn for not respecting others. Even opinions against the site or for a change in the site can be stated respectfully. :3

[Dolphinsong]

Thank you olympe.

 

I've already had 2 threads locked/wiped and recieved a warning because I'm not afraid to state facts and have an opinion.

 

Ignoring the problem will NOT make it go away. DC has a problem and until TJ faces facts AND his members, the problem will continue to get worse.

 

This may be TJ's site, but that does not make TJ god, nor does it make it impossible for TJ to make a mistake or be wrong about something.

 

I just got ganged up on in the chatroom by a bunch of TJ fanfreaks because I have an opinion. When you have a dozen or so folk coming at you and never giving you time to respond to one question, before they're throwing another at you...... yes, it got out of hand and maybe I became a bit hysterical.. but I'm only one person and I had multiple folk coming after me. So I left before things got really bad and it devolved into flaming.

 

I am NOT alone. I am not the only person asking for answers. I'm just not afraid to speak up about it and I don't care if I get repeatedly warned, because I have questions and I want answers from TJ. NOT from the TJ fanfreaks, from TJ himself.. and I want it in language I can understand and not a bunch of bull about the coding. Coding is hard, I know this.. but it does not mean that I am stupid because I don't know how to code.

Here's the issue with that. You cannot make everyone happy. Even if you give them what they want they will still complain about it and or something else. Its an unending problem and most of those problems are USER created, not the site itself. Its the users who decide what to breed and not breed, its their fault the ratios are as they are, not TJ's.

 

I am about to graduate as a game designer so things like this is COMMON. Stop saying TJ is hiding and avoiding the issue. He has a life outside of DC that comes first and he is also looking for ways to solve some of the issues we are having. Just because he isn't saying anything DOESN'T mean he isn't working on it.

 

There have been many times where I ask TJ something and not get an answer. Sometimes he himself doesn't know how to answer something and make sense. Try PMing your issues with TJ instead of trying to make threads about it as often times thats the fastest way to get an answer without others answering for him.

[HeatherMarie]

We don't close threads for stating opinions. We close threads when people start to break the rules:

 

 

 

To give people time to calm down, rather than continuously hand out warn after warn for not respecting others. Even opinions against the site or for a change in the site can be stated respectfully. :3

Maybe I'm missing the point, or not seeing things that are more obvious to a mod, but I didn't see any posts in that thread that broke that rule. Unless, of course the posts were deleted, in which case it feels more like censoring then rule-enforcing.

 

We can have opinions of the sort that TJ is not listening, not acknowledging us, and things need to change, without breaking that "respect others" rule. I haven't seen anyone being mean or disrespectful, but I have seen the "no vent topics" rule pulled out more then once when we are trying to talk about statistics and why we know that something is wrong.

 

Which brings me to my question, *are* we actually censored here? I know that spam-posts get deleted, but are posts that are "against the rules" routinely deleted?

 

edit: Dolphinsong, I gave up on PMing TJ about stuff long ago. I never got any response or acknowledgement that the PM had even been seen. I do understand that he is very busy, and especially with something like the breeding stats where *so many* people are having problems, wouldn't it be better for everyone to talk about it in a central thread instead of so many people PMing TJ?

Edited July 17, 2011 by Marie19R

[Dolphinsong]

The issue with having a central thread to discuess it is that often times it can grow out of control extreamlly fast, resulting in thread closure so that it can be cleaned out of drama. Everyone have different ideas and/or suggestion/complaints that go against what everyone else wants. Which results in bickering and arguing instead of trying to find something the majority is happy with. And even then, once it is in place. many of those ppl who agreed to it start complaining about it.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

TJ has a bad habit for keeping EVERYTHING secret. Keeping a new release secret is one thing.. not being willing to answer a question in public is something TOTALLY different.

 

How many times do I have to say it? TJ is not god just because it's his site and he made the game. He's still human and capable of making mistakes.. and he's no better than anyone else here, regardless of how much the fanfreaks think he is.

 

Constantly resorting to...... "give it time, the ratios will sort themselves out"....... has gone on long enough. The ratios have NOT sorted themselves out, they have gotten worse. The problem started in April 09 with the Egg Flood release, and it hasn't sorted itself out yet.

 

I got warned.. fine.. I don't care.. I deserved it for cursing. But I've been ignored so many times, I felt it was time to be totally blunt. If I have to curse for folk to pay attention, then I will when it seems called for. But I did not disrespect anyone, regardless of what the Mods think. I simply stated facts/opinions in a manner that called attention to the problem. Censorship is alive and well on DC.. some of my posts WERE deleted because I was cursing. Seems that that was what it took for my questions to be taken seriously, instead of just being ignored as usual.

 

TJ does not need his fanfreaks to defend him. He's a grown up person who should be able to defend himself. It isn't my problem if he's afraid to face facts and have to admit he's wrong about something. This is NOT disrespect, this is MY opinion about how TJ is behaving.. and I'll be of the same opinion until I see him start facing the problems that we are having with the game.

[HeatherMarie]

*is now wishing for a "kudo" button like the one on another site I'm on, so I can kudo Cinnamin Draconna*

 

I just want to know if DragonCave will *ever* be the fun game it once was. And I don't care if that means changing ratios, and letting fur fly because someone is *always* going to object to *any* change, or heck, let's change blacks and vines and pinks and such to "rare-ratios", and put rares into common-ratios. (Not saying that's a good idea) I just want *something* that will get DragonCave back to the fun game it used to be.

 

And if I weren't paranoid about getting warned, I might stand up for things a bit more the way Cinnamin Draconna does.

[Obscure_Trash]

Maybe I'm missing the point, or not seeing things that are more obvious to a mod, but I didn't see any posts in that thread that broke that rule. Unless, of course the posts were deleted, in which case it feels more like censoring then rule-enforcing.

 

We can have opinions of the sort that TJ is not listening, not acknowledging us, and things need to change, without breaking that "respect others" rule. I haven't seen anyone being mean or disrespectful, but I have seen the "no vent topics" rule pulled out more then once when we are trying to talk about statistics and why we know that something is wrong.

 

Which brings me to my question, *are* we actually censored here? I know that spam-posts get deleted, but are posts that are "against the rules" routinely deleted?

 

edit: Dolphinsong, I gave up on PMing TJ about stuff long ago. I never got any response or acknowledgement that the PM had even been seen. I do understand that he is very busy, and especially with something like the breeding stats where *so many* people are having problems, wouldn't it be better for everyone to talk about it in a central thread instead of so many people PMing TJ?

DAMMIT.. I'm NOT chatting.. I'm trying to get TJ to face the problem and FIX the damn breeding problem.

 

[...]

 

FIX THE DAMN RATIOS AND BREEDING ISSUES TJ!!!!!

 

For a good example of where that thread was going. The tension was high and there were a handful more posts on that page trying to start drama against TJ. Even if he does not answer your PM, it doesn't mean he hasn't read it. He reads PMs of mine without them ever showing up as read in the tracker. Makes things a little confusing, but TJ does seem to prefer to work things out before posting solutions/ideas/whatnot. I have seen him speak up in topics before and all that happens is a bunch of users yelling at him and people getting frustrated, because it's not the answer they are looking for. I see people hoping that TJ will speak up more, but really, I think people mean, "I want TJ to speak up and tell me what I think, not what he really sees in the coding".

 

The problem with vent topics for SD is that they turn into vent topics and rudeness against TJ, rather than whatever happened.

 

Topics that are closed are not always cleaned. However, sometimes they are, you're right. I have seen instances where the topic was closed but not cleaned and so the drama just started up again, because new people came in and saw what was happening and had to reply to the posts that upset them.

 

I guess it just depends on the user and the thread, because I have gotten PMs before thanking me for closing some topics that I've closed. It's hard to find a good balance that will please the majority. 3: (In the end, though, I am a mod, and it's our job to enforce board rules, even if users can get upset at that.)

 

That just leads to more secrecy. I don't want secrecy, I want TJ to come out of the closet and start talking to us. Doing everything behind the scenes is counterproductive to what we're trying to accomplish. We want the facts to be public and accessable and known to everyone, and not just an elite few who happen to have TJ's ear.

 

However, the fact stands that the best way to reach TJ is to contact him personally. He is the admin, but he also has college and the cave and whatever else in his life to take care of. I know the forum keeps me busy enough that I couldn't be in charge of both the cave and forum without devoting less time to one or both of them.

Edited July 17, 2011 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Umm, it's summer.. classes are not in session currently that I"m aware of. TJ himself said that he'd be able to work more on the site after the end of classes in MAY. So I think your reasoning is outdated.

[hazeh]

Doesn't the main DC site have a link on the bottom that allows you to personally contact TJ? Perhaps, just as a suggestion to him if this isn't the case, he can set up a Dragon Cave Email for himself that people can send him questions to. Then, once he responds, said response can be posted/worked into FAQ or whatnot by a mod so that those questions don't flood his email again?

Something of the sort.