Jump to content
Khallayne

We want Forum Feedback!

Recommended Posts

Very much agreed. While I can see the desire to head things off before it gets really bad, sometimes it does more damage than to just let people get it out and then deal with the fallout. The temporary closings usually do help some people cool off, but for others, it just gives them time to build up even more steam and just explode when it's open again.

 

And a little humor can go a very long way in preventing this, too. Or slight topic changes, something that will just take people's minds off of the original issue and let them revisit it in a more good natured light. This is one reason I do believe the rules of spam/off-topicness really need to be relaxed more.. a gentle poke back in the right direction after a while, fine, but unless there is absolutely no connection to the original topic, it shouldn't really be spam.

Definitely. Otherwise everything needs to splinter off into separate threads, and those usually die because the individual threads themselves don't have the staying power of a single thread that goes slightly off-tangent once in a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Definitely. Otherwise everything needs to splinter off into separate threads, and those usually die because the individual threads themselves don't have the staying power of a single thread that goes slightly off-tangent once in a while.

-nod-

 

And some topics are just so intertwined that things will go down a slightly different tack after a while. Discussing moral objections to abortion will naturally bring in a minor religious discussion, but for the most part, it sticks to why it's colored the person's belief about abortion (sorry, I'm just using the first example I could think of). Unless it completely strays from that, there's no reason to take it to the religion thread. And some threads have provided amazing discussions, even if they weren't technically on topic, there needs to be a bit more room to expand on things.

Share this post


Link to post

Could I have some recent examples on when a mod asked/warned people to stay on topic that you think was on topic? It helps gauge what you guys are thinking against what we're thinking. :3

Share this post


Link to post
And it still has potential to make him money (even if he doesn't pursue that avenue) along with being an excellent blurp on his resume when he is looking for work. Besides, don't you want your hobbies to reflect your best efforts? I know I do whether I'm breeding show birds, decorating a cake for a birthday, cooking a gourmet meal or doing woodworking; none of which have anything to do with my career. I want someone to be happy when they take one of my baby birds home or serve one of my cakes at their wedding. Why shouldn't TJ strive to make the best sprite collecting experience possible since it is linked to his name? It's called taking pride in your work. Then again in this disposable world perhaps that is an old fashion quality that has run it's course. *shrugs*

Career is to make money. Hobby is for fun. Hobby does not need money to be fun.

 

If he wants to make money off of it, he can, and if he wants it on his resume, hell, it could be on his resume already with all of the success.

Share this post


Link to post

Trust me. I do quite a bit more reading than I do posting, although I don't have a "positive" posts-per-day count from not communicating. I make sure to check the site daily if not more frequently (even while on vacation, like right now). I've written numerous tools that track the dragon populations, and I watch various graphs to make sure things are progressing in the right direction (which they are).

 

And don't say "well if you're checking on the site and nothing's wrong, then tell us." Because I have done in the past and still do. Apparently no one believes me when I say things are working. They don't want me to say "everything's fine," they want me to confirm their belief that things aren't fine.

 

I don't really want to go into this here (this isn't the thread for it), but since it's the only reason people are posting in this topic (right now), there's no reason not to: There's also the misconception that saying "nothing's wrong" regarding the ratios means "this is how common the dragon breeds are, and how they'll always be." And that's false. The ratios are, of course, "off." It doesn't take me to tell you that. But why are they so far off? Because, until recently (February-ish), I wasn't willing to actually enforce them. I guess you guys got spoiled with being able to continuously overbreed rares until their populations rival that of commons (which they did), because now that things are being fixed, you can't handle it.

Another important tidbit: Saying "the ratios" have been getting progressively worse since 09 is flat-out false. Why? Because the site only takes into account dragons from the past year. The code doesn't care what happened back in 09, it's been long forgotten. I've said this before, but apparently it's been forgotten too.

 

Anyways, despite the fact that I'm being hypocritical by saying this, I'm going to request that any further ratio discussion not be placed in this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
We've got a new Cave Feedback thread, so fair enough. Perhaps put a stickied thread in news with a few of the more common comments/complaints and answers to them, updated once in a while when new things pop up? I think some of it is people not believing other people who say that you said something because your posts get lost in all the thread clutter so they can't find the source. Edited by RheaZen

Share this post


Link to post

Such a topic, unless heavily-monitored (or kept closed), seems like it would turn into a giant mirror of these feedback threads.

Share this post


Link to post

Well that's all I needed.

 

Seriously, THAT was all I was looking for. Just a simple explanation from TJ beyond a short "nothing's wrong" that doesn't tell us anything. Knowing that ratios didn't used to be enforced strongly and now are, etc, that makes a world of difference in my perception of the current "problems".

 

Thank you TJ. That's all many of us wanted, was just communication. (Of course there will still be complaining, but...)

Share this post


Link to post

It still runs the chance of being useless and/or redundant, since I don't think people go bother to check news unless there's an active news topic.

 

Although the donation meter does get a decent amount of traffic, so...

Share this post


Link to post
Whoa, hold on. No need to get defensive, I wasn't attacking anyone. This is exactly what I believe Nine was just talking about. The "Uh" in my statement was simply incredulous, because a good portion of your earlier post led me to believe that you were complaining that DC was going downhill merely because you thought CB metallics didn't exist any longer.

Oh, OK. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
It still runs the chance of being useless and/or redundant, since I don't think people go bother to check news unless there's an active news topic.

 

Although the donation meter does get a decent amount of traffic, so...

I tend to check the News forum every day, and try to follow cave happenings through other threads. I think the idea of something stickied and locked would be a good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Oh, OK. Sorry.

^^ That's alright. I probably should have worded my earlier statement better, anyways.

 

 

 

Perhaps, TJ, there could be a stickied/locked topic where it is simply filled with answers to certain things that you have been asked specifically. If the people continue to ask them, they can be redirected there, as it would be a permanent source of information. Kind of like an "update" topic, only you or the mods would only be allowed to post answers directly from yourself or answers mods have received for duplicate questions being asked, such as in topics like this one.

Share this post


Link to post

And don't say "well if you're checking on the site and nothing's wrong, then tell us." Because I have done in the past and still do. Apparently no one believes me when I say things are working. They don't want me to say "everything's fine," they want me to confirm their belief that things aren't fine.

 

We don't need you to tell things ARE working. We need you to tell us why things are NOT working. Folk don't complain when things are working properly, they complain when things are broken.

 

I don't really want to go into this here (this isn't the thread for it), but since it's the only reason people are posting in this topic (right now), there's no reason not to:

 

So what thread should I be posting in? Link me please.

 

There's also the misconception that saying "nothing's wrong" regarding the ratios means "this is how common the dragon breeds are, and how they'll always be." And that's false. The ratios are, of course, "off." It doesn't take me to tell you that. But why are they so far off? Because, until recently (February-ish), I wasn't willing to actually enforce them. I guess you guys got spoiled with being able to continuously overbreed rares until their populations rival that of commons (which they did), because now that things are being fixed, you can't handle it.

 

So why weren't you enforcing it? Why did you let it get so far out of hand? You told us about the rare glitch and told us you were fixing it. Fine, we got used to less rares.. because you told us about it. But you haven't said a thing about 'enforcing' things this time.. and we aren't complaining about rare breeding in particular, we're complaining about COMMONS. Since the black stripes were introduced FOUR MONTHS AGO, black and stripe breeding is WORSE than metallic breeding. How is THAT proper???

 

Another important tidbit: Saying "the ratios" have been getting progressively worse since 09 is flat-out false. Why? Because the site only takes into account dragons from the past year. The code doesn't care what happened back in 09, it's been long forgotten. I've said this before, but apparently it's been forgotten too.

 

Then why does it SEEM to have gotten progressively worse since the 09 Egg Flood release? If it only takes the last year into account, well why have things gotten worse in the last year? THERE IS A PROBLEM. When it started isn't really the issue.. why is hasn't been fixed is the issue.

 

And if the system only takes the last year into account, why are the older commons getting rarer? Is this regarding the 'oh so mysterious and secret population numbers'?? If so, I think you are contradicting yourself.. because if the blacks that were produced 2 yrs ago aren't counted against the current numbers, then they shouldn't be so darn rare.

 

Anyways, despite the fact that I'm being hypocritical by saying this, I'm going to request that any further ratio discussion not be placed in this topic.

 

I'll gladly ask my questions elsewhere.. if you'll tell me where elsewhere is.

Share this post


Link to post

We don't need you to tell things ARE working. We need you to tell us why things are NOT working. Folk don't complain when things are working properly, they complain when things are broken.

I believe it's time you stop saying "we" and start saying "I." I haven't seen anybody else doing more than demanding an explanation of the situation.

 

So what thread should I be posting in? Link me please.

This thread should do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Which brings me to my question, *are* we actually censored here? I know that spam-posts get deleted, but are posts that are "against the rules" routinely deleted?

Yes, we are censored here. My - by the way deleted - post contained a quote - of a post that got deleted due to cursing, I believe - and something along the lines "This. And the vampire issue. Pretty please?" Not exactly offensive, disrespectful or anything worth deleting it. Yes, I know that things in the Tiny Little Questions thread tend to get deleted every once in a while, but this was not a case of regular clearing because some older posts were still there after my post got deleted.

 

Also, it seems like topics that are uncomfortable to certain people (like the vampire bites thread) often get closed. Which smacks of censorship.

 

On another note, the friendly approach, with lots of stats to support our (as in the user-base's) view on things failed miserably in the thread about vampire bites not working the same way as before the change. The only answer TJ deigned to give was "Everything is as it's supposed to be.", "I already stated the ratios are fine." and that the often-cited stats on Sylvie's had to go. So I can totally understand that Cinnamin Draconna decided to speak up in a less gentle way. Having her first post to that effect deleted won't have helped the issue, either. Which explains the one cited by SPS. What is most annoying to me is not the fact that the game is the way it is, but that it's supposed to be different than it is (as stated by TJ, for example regarding vampire bites), and that remarks about ratios being changed are not taken seriously at all.

 

And don't say "well if you're checking on the site and nothing's wrong, then tell us." Because I have done in the past and still do. Apparently no one believes me when I say things are working. They don't want me to say "everything's fine," they want me to confirm their belief that things aren't fine.
Well, a couple of numbers would be nice. Especially if numerous people report numbers that do not match the ratios in the slightest, and go way beyond a chance of one in a trillion.

 

The ratios are, of course, "off." It doesn't take me to tell you that. But why are they so far off? Because, until recently (February-ish), I wasn't willing to actually enforce them. I guess you guys got spoiled with being able to continuously overbreed rares until their populations rival that of commons (which they did), because now that things are being fixed, you can't handle it.

But the majority is not complaining about rares, but dragons supposed to be common: stripes, blacks, vines, vampires, even nebulas...

 

Still, regarding the issues about rares, this explains a lot, so thank you for that. (Still, you might have kept the "you can't handle it" comment to yourself, though.)

 

This entire forum isn't going to crumble to pieces if one little thread happens to get a little heated. Being so quick to close threads just because it *might* lead to drama, I don't know about others, but I know that makes *me*, as a poster and participator in those threads, even *more* agitated, not less. Talking things out, having a discussion about our frustrations and confusions with the site, even if it does get a little heated sometimes, it's a *lot* better then being told to shut up about it, which is basically what it feels like when the topics get locked to "cool down".

 

Thanks, couldn't have worded it any better.

 

What I see is that people request, complain and whine until they get what they want, are all mushy and grateful for a few days and then move onto the next thing they feel they need to whine and moan about.

Well, we're requesting, complaining and whining until we get an answer, even if it is that the ratios have been changed and will stay changed. But it's definitely not true that they are the way they always were. (At least for vampires.) Is that really too much to ask?

 

Apart from that, I find it highly offensive that people who are concerned with how the site is run are called whiners and complainers. (Anybody going to enforce the "respect others" rule? No? Why am I not surprised? It's just regular and uncomfortable users that are being disrespected, after all.)

 

I don't like that on these forums I can't ask a question without fear of a warn, and if I do get brave enough to ask a question or support somebody else's, that I can never get a straight answer, even if the answer is "That's just how I want it to be from now on, deal with it."

Just in case you were not aware of this, but a couple of pages back, we were told that this thread was not for complaining about warns. Don't remember exactly which mod it was, though. But it shows another point: People are actually afraid of asking certain questions because they fear to be warned.

 

We don't need you to tell things ARE working. We need you to tell us why things are NOT working. Folk don't complain when things are working properly, they complain when things are broken.
I believe it's time you stop saying "we" and start saying "I." I haven't seen anybody else doing more than demanding an explanation of the situation.

There's at least two of us with that opinion, so the pronoun is appropriate. ninja.gif

Share this post


Link to post

People are actually afraid of asking certain questions because they fear to be warned.

Same goes for answering questions.

Share this post


Link to post

Just to say something else about the moderation of the forums...

 

I think the mods are a little tough on off-topic-ness. I believe the "topic" of a thread is interpreted much too narrowly, and discussion should be allowed to meander to a greater extent than it is now. Topic starters and "thread mods" should be given some minimodding privileges in terms of keeping their threads on topic. Warns for spam shouldn't be handed out due to off-topic posts, unless they're chatty ("you won't believe what my dog just did" in a thread like, say, this one) or actual spam (that is, advertising, eggspam, utter nonsense, etc.). Comments on things happening in the thread should be allowed, imho.

 

EDIT: I just had another thought. User-created user groups. Like clubs within the forum. Perhaps each user group could have a private thread, or a private forum, where only moderators and members of that group can see what's going on.

Edited by ~!~

Share this post


Link to post
EDIT: I just had another thought. User-created user groups. Like clubs within the forum. Perhaps each user group could have a private thread, or a private forum, where only moderators and members of that group can see what's going on.

Who would control the groups? How many members does it take until they can have an official group? Would there be a limit on the number of groups (if you're suggesting each group get it's own private section, that could /easily/ quadruple the size of the forum)? How does one get into a group? What would you suggest about people who complain about elitism and being excluded?

 

Can a member only be in one group (as it is now)? That would be a /huuuuge/ problem. People in RP alone could probably fit into multiple groups. People who thread mod more than one thread in SD? Why would they need private forums anyway?

 

So yah I'm hard no to that.

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, groups doesn't sound so fun. Sounds... clique-ish.

This. I see how self-created membergroups could cause problems and fights real fast. People will start feeling left out and... Yeah, no fun. IMO.

Edited by Alpha Gryph

Share this post


Link to post

Who would control the groups? How many members does it take until they can have an official group? Would there be a limit on the number of groups (if you're suggesting each group get it's own private section, that could /easily/ quadruple the size of the forum)? How does one get into a group? What would you suggest about people who complain about elitism and being excluded?

 

Can a member only be in one group (as it is now)? That would be a /huuuuge/ problem. People in RP alone could probably fit into multiple groups. People who thread mod more than one thread in SD? Why would they need private forums anyway?

 

So yah I'm hard no to that.

A hard no because why? Because you have questions about it? Or, what, you just automatically assume that I won't be able to answer them?

 

Groups would be controlled by members. At any time, you could choose to start a group, then you could advertise it in your sig or something. There wouldn't be a limit on the number of groups. I don't see why there's a problem with quadrupling the size of the forum, if each group is in charge of moderating itself. (And then, if the group members feel they're doing a bad job, report them to the real moderators.) I would suppose that you could join a group spontaneously, but could then be kicked out if you were causing problems in that group. Perhaps groups could be given the option of whitelisting, but I wouldn't think a lot of groups would do that.

 

If formal groups would require lots of extra coding on the part of the forums, I wouldn't expect private forums for each group. Although, I know InvisionFree (which this forum isn't, but is similar to) can create password-protected subforums. Doing it that way would make it so that people could be part of multiple groups. (Although, if I understand our current member groups properly, members can be in multiple groups, because there are some people who are mods and artists.)

 

Private forums would be a site-sanctioned equivalent to going off-site. To people who complain about elitism: the artist forum? Yes, it's necessary, but from what I've heard, it's evolved from a place where artists can work on stuff without fear of harassment to a place where the artists can chat together about artisty stuff, or even about unrelated things with only other members of their group. And frankly, I'm jealous. I'd like to be able to chat with other people who are like me without having to worry about all those people on the forum who disagree with me coming in and arguing constantly with me and my friends. Sure, I could go off-site, make a completely new forum and only let in people who have been approved...

 

Oh, wait. That already happened. It was called Vent 2.0. (They've since left their old forum, no doubt because they were outed or felt they were being spied upon, so don't bother looking for them.)

 

EDIT: Also, there are already self-created membergroups. Well, there's lineage projects. Those haven't been causing any problems of late, to my knowledge. I wouldn't expect what I'm proposing here to be any more popular than those are, i.e., with the majority of the forums ignoring them completely.

Edited by ~!~

Share this post


Link to post
Apart from that, I find it highly offensive that people who are concerned with how the site is run are called whiners and complainers. (Anybody going to enforce the "respect others" rule? No? Why am I not surprised? It's just regular and uncomfortable users that are being disrespected, after all.)

 

It wasnt directed at anyone specific. I have done my fair share of "questioning" on my own time. I dont watch what happens over here on the forum. I dont think of the forum as my playground. What I see is a bunch of angry people acting out, feeding off of everyone elses anger and spinning things way out of control. That is not being disrespectful, that is saying what *I* as a user, as a person sees. I'll agree as much as anyone else that this forum is an uncomfortable, terrifying place to hang out at times. Especially when there are huge rallies like this that take over multiple posts across the board.

 

Me, yes I see there are a lot of things broken and yes I do complain, however, I choose to be more laid back in how i complain. I ask questions, i suggest answers, and I just go with the flow. With the changes, ALL of my lineage projects have been put on hold. I have bred a total of 6 eggs from my space chicken lineage since april (well over 100 pairings on the chickens alone). Instead of adding to the problem im just choosing not to breed my blacks/silvers/anything bred to blacks. It seems to be helping since there are TONS of cb metals and blacks im either missing, seeing for trade, or that are on scrolls people are claiming are multis. Them not breeding means more are showing up in cave.. other than the fact that I cant catch them, I'm not seeing what the problem is. Want more stuff in the cave, stop breeding. If you would rather have the stuff you have breed, rather than show up in the cave, then say so.

 

I think a lot of the issues here isnt that you guys arent making yourselves heard, but more how you are going about it. Calling TJ out, calling the forum mods out, that tends to cause tension. When every generalized term is immediately being taken as an attack against one another, of course tension goes up.

 

Instead of focusing on the huge picture (things arent as awesome as they were a year or two ago, whyyy) put together a list of the things you guys are upset about. I'm sure soeone out there would be willing to go through this post page by page and write down everything that has been mentioned as a problem, get it all in one spot, one post so things can be addressed one at a time.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.