We want Forum Feedback!

[Hellen]

(I think that PMing people for teleport links might work well too, if there's a thread where everyone uses it)

 

Sorry to add to the TaE LaE discussion, but I just want to say that people shouldn't be talking about how the situation was handled and whose fault it was, but about suggestions for what to do about it next. It would be a shame if this discussion turned into a debate of whether or not the mods did the right thing.

 

Also, I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to ask for the dragon to be named if possible. It isn't as if they're saying You must name the dragon! they're just saying that they'd appreciate their gift having a name. Also, if people are gifting something, then surely it is understandable for them not to want it killed?

 

This post here shows most of my other views. However, I do also understand why mods did what they did.

I have some concerns I'd like to adress here, without argument or anything else, because I am really sick and tired of people argueing. It's not really worth argueing over, I'd guess.

 

Things I'd like to point out, in case there are rules for the new Tae/Lae thread to be discussed.

 

Just my two cents.

 

1. If you allow two way trades, there'd need to be a rule that people can not in fact ask for specific eggs or hatchlings of any kind, and have to take the offered dummy egg as soon as the person in question posts a 'worthy' teleport to the thread.

(Also, there is never a guarantee that the person who offers the gifted egg actually gifts it to the person who posts a teleport in the thread, and vice versa, that the person who gets the egg gifted does not cancel the teleport. It would also be unfair to the people who don't have the ability to type on the forums, be it because of mobile, internet derpings, mod-approval awaits and what not. Also there has been some grumbling about the 'long waiting time on getting an egg in a two way teleport', this has to be adressed also)

 

2. If people take eggs which are being gifted, they are usually not being killed for malicious reasons.

 

3. The clear definition of 'harmful actions' is so ... swampy. I mean, for me zombiefying isn't harmful. For others, vamping isn't harmful either. Neither is neglecting, or freezing, or trying to hatch them using Earthquake for some.

 

4. Also, ASKING for certain things, like being named ... it is also a double edged sword. (By example, most people don't name things right away, and go on a naming spree all 12 months or so. Or name them specific things only, that fits their scroll. I, by example, name my things really random names, based on their codes, and very, very seldomly name things in a specific pattern or after the parents, and I tell most people that).

 

5. Chatter would be okay too, but not the kind of "XYZ person stole and whatnot and a bunch of text and oh, because this would count as spam otherwise => TL: DR have a teleport". I think a "Thank you XYZ for the egg", when followed with a short notice that something else will be left for the thread later on when it bred, is very okay, and can be done.

 

6. Last but not least, I have nothing against people ASKING their gifts to be named, hatched, grown what else, but I am really against people putting up solid RULES about what has to happen with their gifts, or else the giftee doesn't get it. (RULES like "Name certain name scheme, Breed to certain mate..." are giving me a heartburn.) Those are Rules that a person can put up when putting up a gifting topic in their signature, if they want their specific rules to be honored or not gift at all.

It is, after all, always the person's scroll which the egg goes to, who has the say in the end what happens with the egg they receive.

 

 

 

I hope this has been a bit of more of a discussion point than argueing, and I'd really like to see these concerns to be adressed and/or solutions to be found.

 

[Zoa]

tl-dr

for op

would like to see bookmarks for threads

not just for threads i posted in, but for threads i like to lurk in

 

*edit*

and yes, i know there is a "track this thread"

prefer anon bookmarking - but my web browser's bookmarks number in the thousands.

 

tyvm

~Zoä~

Edited October 20, 2014 by Zoa

[Frodo]

The main problem of the old Take An Egg, LEAVE AN EGG thread, was theft. Mods don't seem to understand that callouts happened because those of us that played fair, were fed up of some people stealing eggs and not giving back. Not even a post to say they had taken an egg. Even after 20-30 minutes... still nothing. Is it really so hard to say 'Thankyou' when you receive something? And as long as the thieves knew they wouldn't be punished, they would still keep on doing it. 2-ways were used to make sure something was given back, nothing more. And those that used one-ways still got their eggs stolen.

 

Now I understand some users may have been on post moderation. As has been said before, post moderation is supposed to be a punsihment for breaking rules, not an excuse to break even more rules. Simply wait until the post moderation is over, then come back to the thread.

 

If you're too young to have an account, ask someone to post for you. Or simply don't take.

[Ruby Eyes]

and yes, i know there is a "track this thread"

prefer anon bookmarking

But nobody except you would even know that you are tracking a topic you didn't post in You're the only one who sees your topic tracking subscriptions.

[blah]

To me, the charm of TAE LAE was the initial honor system.

 

It confuses me that people are so set on trying to enforce honor, I don't think that's really possible.

[Hellen]

The main problem of the old Take An Egg, LEAVE AN EGG thread, was theft. Mods don't seem to understand that callouts happened because those of us that played fair, were fed up of some people stealing eggs and not giving back. Not even a post to say they had taken an egg. Even after 20-30 minutes... still nothing. Is it really so hard to say 'Thankyou' when you receive something? And as long as the thieves knew they wouldn't be punished, they would still keep on doing it. 2-ways were used to make sure something was given back, nothing more. And those that used one-ways still got their eggs stolen.

Where the rules of the old thread say that you should reply within 5 hours or less... *scratches head*, and that while replying as quickly as possible (remember, some people have to actually have a keyboard to type, which not everyone has available on the bus, work, or other situations), posting the new trade link within five hours is acceptable.

So would I interpret those rules.

 

Do not claim something if you can't replace it by offering your return gift within 5 hours or less. If you know you won't be able to put up a replacement offer in that time frame, leave that offer for someone else. Otherwise the thread will have less to offer the next player who comes along.

 

People calling others out has been, IMO happening way too fast (seen that happening, within mere minutes

 

Again, I really want to return to the discussion about how we could improve the new thread, with possibilities that make EVERYONE at least satisfied, and not argue about name calling which had been in the most cases absolutely ... unnecessary.

 

Again I am asking myself how we could make everyone happy, without people getting their heads in the clouds and demand every rule to be changed just to please them, which is not possible, if you might understand. I hope we find a way to solve this, and up until now, my concerns/Ideas as seen in my first post are still standing unanswered and undiscussed.

I guess some people just want to argue and, how is the saying, beat a dead horse.

[Frodo]

Where the rules of the old thread say that you should reply within 5 hours or less... *scratches head*, and that while replying as quickly as possible (remember, some people have to actually have a keyboard to type, which not everyone has available on the bus, work, or other situations), posting the new trade link within five hours is acceptable.

So would I interpret those rules.

 

 

No, the rules said that eggs had to be replaced within 5 hours (which some people didn't do). But posting to say you had taken an egg should be done as soon as possible.

 

*Make a post right away saying what you claimed, so the person who gave it doesn't think it was stolen. 

 

It was very frustrating that the rule about stealing was not being enforced.

 

And while I admit I don't use my mobile phone for internet access... surely making a post to say 'Thanks, I took that egg, I'll give something back when I get home', is no different to texting friends on a mobile phone?

 

[Hellen]

It was very frustrating that the rule about stealing was not being enforced.

 

And while I admit I don't use my mobile phone for internet access... surely making a post to say 'Thanks, I took that egg, I'll give something back when I get home', is no different to texting friends on a mobile phone?

Frustrating, might be, but how could such a rule be enforced if there had been, technically, no theft?

 

I mean, people put up the teleports themselves, that is like leaving a real egg somewhere with the intention of it being picked up.

You can't expect others to leave somethign there, which is unfortunate, and against the thread's phylosophy, but you can't actively force anyone to leave something there.

 

(on another note, texting is already a feat I rather don't do on my phone, because I need minutes to type up the text with the tiny buttons and manual selecting which letter I want, like the old T9 texting systems. I have an old phone. One with a very old system, a tiny screen, and typing something there is a hassle that I do not do. WHEN I had access to internet on my phone AT ALL, I have taken teleports being left on my email, or on the forums, because my password is saved, and I just have to click the TP, and after a while of waiting to load the page, I just have to click the 'accept' button. That alone is a thing of five to fifteen minutes, depending where I am at. Typing a message... yes. Lets leave it at "Doing it at home. Takes too long, and most often doesn't even get through..." because the connection would break off randomly)

[LibbyLishly]

I think the best bet is to contact the thread OP/thread mods.

If this is the case:

 

1. As soon as the new thread was started, a mod needed to come in here and say that all further concerns needed to be addressed to the OP of that thread. That would have eliminated pages of frustration and the massive insult of three closed threads.

 

2. Who ARE the moderators of that thread? It seems kind of weird that there's nothing in the first post about who is running this and whether they actually have the power to change the rules back to something like the original TAELAE.

 

3. If whoever those mini-mods are feel like their hands are tied by vague rules laid down in this thread or in private conversations with main mods that no one else knows about, how on earth can any suggestions an outsider makes be even worth the time to type?

 

Again, I have no stake in the TAELAE game. I didn't use the first one and I won't be using the new one. But if this ever happens to a thread I care about, I would like to see a lot more openness, receptiveness, and consistency on the part of the mods.

Edited October 20, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[Starscream]

At: Libbylishy

 

The Take-and-Leave account I would logically assume, that you'd have to contact that.

 

I was under the impression forum mods have said to contact the thread mods, it just gets swamped over by arguments. I am not a forum mod, but I am an IRC Mod and to me contacting the thread Account is the best and most logical course of action. Particularly since it seems the OP and mods do not want to be known. I don't think I blame them either after reading these threads.

 

If a Forum Account is made - is it absolutely necessary to name the staff who run it? I think the idea of a forum account is to streamline communication. So that all mods can go in, read the emails sent in and each mod has equal and unrestricted access to see what goes on in it. At least, that is my logic. Yes I operate on a logic sense typically - I can't help it. My mum always said "you take things too literal" - and I digress.

 

1. Contact OP has been stated multiple times.

2. Thread mods appear to be using OP account.

3. No idea.

 

 

 

 

[LibbyLishly]

@Starscream

 

I have combed through the last 6 pages (every post since the new thread was opened on October 12th) in this thread. A mod never once stated that the place for suggestions for the new TAELAE was to contact the thread mod. It was only after a thread had been created in the vein that TJ said to use, making a specific suggestion, that that message was transmitted through an abrupt thread closure. It wasn't until TJ weighed back in here on the 17th that it was stated that main mods couldn't make those calls.

 

If you wish to change the rules of the existing TAE thread, then that's one thing, and as _Z_ said, that's outside of the scope of the mods. This is very similar to help/suggestion threads regarding hatcheries being insta-closed.

 

If you wish to change the forum rules in such a way that the old TAE thread would never have been closed, in order to allow things to get closer to how they were, that's a discussion that can be held.

 

THAT is the communication that has been missing for days. And THAT is what makes me concerned about what is going on with the leadership of this forum.

 

Sock finally weighed in on the same day with this:

I know people are frustrated, but you guys aren't really listening to what we've said. We closed the thread for specific reasons. People asked for it back. We allowed another thread with limitations that solved the problems we and other users saw. You guys don't like those rules. Fair enough. But you cannot just suggest implementing the same exact rules that got the thread closed in the first place. You are going to have to compromise a bit if you want the thread open but modified.

 

... Again, if you want these changes to be made, you need to go back to why we closed the thread and figure out how to address our concerns as well as yours. I can try to work with people but since I mostly avoid trade threads and just use the AP for maximum off-my-scroll time, I am having a harder time seeing the issues with TAE and thinking how to help address your concerns.

 

So, once again, where do the interested parties discuss that? Does it HAVE to keep occupying the Forum Feedback thread? That doesn't read, to me, like contacting thread mods is going to help. The players interested in the outcome of this have to keep communicating with the main mods - like you and Sock and Z and every other mod who's popped through here from time to time. But if that's now getting shut down with "just contact the thread mods", how is that going to help?

 

And no, it's not necessary for the staff running the OP account (the people I've been referring to as 'thread mods' and 'mini mods' for simplicity's sake) to be named. I'm just used to seeing forum accounts who are upfront about who's running them. In this case, it's actually pertinent, since most of us are under the impression that the new thread rules are based on the rulings by main mods and, if that's the case, then the thread mods can't change those rules without risking a thread shutdown. If a main mod is among those running the thread account, then that won't be a problem.

 

(To be honest, I'm slightly insulted by the implication that since you "operate on a logic sense typically", I must not be operating logically. Thanks for basically all but saying that I'm simply being emotional and can't see the logical side of this, even though it's not my toy that got taken away.)

Edited October 20, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[Jazeki]

If this is the case:

 

1. As soon as the new thread was started, a mod needed to come in here and say that all further concerns needed to be addressed to the OP of that thread. That would have eliminated pages of frustration and the massive insult of three closed threads.

 

2. Who ARE the moderators of that thread? It seems kind of weird that there's nothing in the first post about who is running this and whether they actually have the power to change the rules back to something like the original TAELAE.

 

3. If whoever those mini-mods are feel like their hands are tied by vague rules laid down in this thread or in private conversations with main mods that no one else knows about, how on earth can any suggestions an outsider makes be even worth the time to type?

 

Again, I have no stake in the TAELAE game. I didn't use the first one and I won't be using the new one. But if this ever happens to a thread I care about, I would like to see a lot more openness, receptiveness, and consistency on the part of the mods.

1. It seems like that is what the mods are suggesting in their comments when locking the threads (to actually go to the source of the problem).

 

2. Why does it matter who the moderators are? They have noted in the thread that they are there to answer PMs/ take care of the thread. As long as they're doing their job, it doesn't matter who is in charge. If they want to change the rules, they probably can with approval from the section mods.

 

3. If you want to take the time to make a suggestion, then it's worth your time. Private conversations are well, private. Just because someone isn't vocal about another person's suggestion doesn't mean they haven't considered it. But there is always the option to go to the mods (thread or section) and bring up your concerns.

 

 

Really, as most of the issues are being tied to how people view appropriate behavior on the forum, I think the best bet would to be to address how to change the forum to take care of whatever those concerns are--like how you believe a group mod account should operate.

 

Slightly unrelated, but I would like a thread that lists all of the group mod accounts and their contact info. It would be great if that thread was mentioned in the Trading/Gifting Subforum, Rules and Guidelines as well.

 

*'You' can be used generally.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Jazeki

[TJ09]

Slightly unrelated, but I would like a thread that lists all of the group mod accounts and their contact info. It would be great if that thread was mentioned in the Trading/Gifting Subforum, Rules and Guidelines as well.

You mean something like this? https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?&act=...ts=10&filter=15

 

And I'd say PM is a safe contact method.

[Jazeki]

You mean something like this? https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?&act=...ts=10&filter=15

 

And I'd say PM is a safe contact method.

I didn't realize we had that. But, yes.

[whitebaron]

THAT is the communication that has been missing for days. And THAT is what makes me concerned about what is going on with the leadership of this forum.

Actually, thats just common sense. If a game/trade thread has rules you don't like, do you go to the organisers or to the main mods?

[Starscream]

Thank's TJ. I never realised that was there. Great tool. I should have realised it existed.

 

Whitebarron - common sense or logic in my mind. It would be something I would generally do. if its site/form related. TJ or mod. If its thread related - Thread OP or mods (if known) if unknown, I might contact the mods to find out whom I should be looking for.

 

Contact thread OP. Although they appear to have not indicated to contact them in their thread, I am sure contacting them is not a problem.

[LibbyLishly]

Usually, yes, absolutely. I consider TAELAE a bit different than how most players would operate under normal circumstances because of the way the discussion has gone in this thread.

 

To repeat, a mod should have stated in here the day the new thread was started that all suggestions for that thread should go to the OP rather than continuing here. Without that statement, players continued to think that this Suggestions/Requests was the place to discuss it, and reasonably so, because that's where all the discussion had previously taken place.

 

For me, this is far less about TAELAE and more about straightforward communication from the forum leadership. Leaving players confused about rules and in the dark about where to go is not a good way to create a friendly forum environment.

Edited October 20, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[Grandmother_cathie]

I would like the forum to have the ability to look up a person by scroll name. Sometime I see a lineage that I LOVE and I see the scroll, but the name they've chosen here is different from what they've named their scroll.

[Sundew]

I would like the forum to have the ability to look up a person by scroll name. Sometime I see a lineage that I LOVE and I see the scroll, but the name they've chosen here is different from what they've named their scroll.

Some people may have it that way because they don't want to be bothered by requests and the like.

 

I'd appreciate a feature like that--as my scroll name is different from my DCF name--but only if it were optional.

[CNR4806]

Well, the assumption that forum mods are the ones to contact regarding the new TAELAE is easy to make.

 

You see, the old TAELAE thread was locked by the forum mods, and a new one was put up with much tighter rules that existing users of the old thread would never dream of. It strongly implies that the new rules were set within the scope of freedom the forum mods gave to the new, whoever-they-are thread mods.

 

Given the above implication and the assumption that it is true, contacting the thread mods would be useless, as they are presumed to have done their best to restore the TAELAE thread to resemble its predecessor while staying within the forum mods' limitations. To change some of the aspects of the new thread to resemble the old, one would suggest the forum mods to loosen the limits, not begging the thread mods push beyond the limits set by the forum mods.

 

Any clarification regarding the creation of the new thread would have easily cleared up the confusion (or the lack thereof), but so far I've seen none.

[xeyla]

I would like the forum to have the ability to look up a person by scroll name. Sometime I see a lineage that I LOVE and I see the scroll, but the name they've chosen here is different from what they've named their scroll.

Unfortunately, the forums and the cave are not linked. Unless TJ updates the forums to link to the cave, this will never happen. I don't even know if our version of the forums can be linked to the cave site.

[Starscream]

I would like the forum to have the ability to look up a person by scroll name. Sometime I see a lineage that I LOVE and I see the scroll, but the name they've chosen here is different from what they've named their scroll.

I would only go for that if it could be turned off in settings.

 

 

and xeyla, TJ could I'm sure. He's pretty smart :3

[Sundew]

Unfortunately, the forums and the cave are not linked. Unless TJ updates the forums to link to the cave, this will never happen. I don't even know if our version of the forums can be linked to the cave site.

It'd be easy enough as having a "Scroll Name" box in settings/account info and being able to search by that field, wouldn't it?

[Whitefire]

It'd be easy enough as having a "Scroll Name" box in settings/account info and being able to search by that field, wouldn't it?

There is one, but it's only viewable by mods and such.

[Obscure_Trash]

So, once again, where do the interested parties discuss that? Does it HAVE to keep occupying the Forum Feedback thread? That doesn't read, to me, like contacting thread mods is going to help. The players interested in the outcome of this have to keep communicating with the main mods - like you and Sock and Z and every other mod who's popped through here from time to time. But if that's now getting shut down with "just contact the thread mods", how is that going to help?

 

And no, it's not necessary for the staff running the OP account (the people I've been referring to as 'thread mods' and 'mini mods' for simplicity's sake) to be named. I'm just used to seeing forum accounts who are upfront about who's running them. In this case, it's actually pertinent, since most of us are under the impression that the new thread rules are based on the rulings by main mods and, if that's the case, then the thread mods can't change those rules without risking a thread shutdown. If a main mod is among those running the thread account, then that won't be a problem.

 

(To be honest, I'm slightly insulted by the implication that since you "operate on a logic sense typically", I must not be operating logically. Thanks for basically all but saying that I'm simply being emotional and can't see the logical side of this, even though it's not my toy that got taken away.)

 

Yes, specific changes are going to have to go through the OP. I've been posting why mods closed the thread because that needs kept in mind when new rules are being suggested to/discussed with the thread OP. If the OP were to simply revert the rules to the old ones, the thread would be closed again.

 

All I've been trying to say is that both sides are getting frustrated and we're both being tired of not being listened to. The suggested rules changes I saw followed the same exact rules the old thread had, just simplified some, which is not an acceptable solution.

However, clearly I gave an offensive impression and I apologize. I did not mean to talk down to anybody. I let my frustration get the best of me.

 

I also apologize that the thread situation has been so confusing. We did not want to shut down discussion because we understand that this is important to a lot of people, so we have also been trying to come up with acceptable ways/places for this to be discussed. There were several users who requested that something be done about TAE discussion so that they could see if anything new/different came up in the thread. But I'm not sure that the discussion that is happening has any other good place on the forum, which is why everyone's been having so much trouble with different threads.

 

I think it would be fine if the thread emphasized more the point of the game (which is to leave an egg if you take one) - and tbh I think it should - but I also don't think the thread is going to work unless users can accept that, although not everybody is going to play by the rules, most people are going to, and the generosity of those who give but don't take or those who give more than they take should even out those who don't take at all.

Unfortunately, there's nothing mods can do to punish those who don't give back to the thread, though. That's why trading can be so messy. Because it is one of the closest merges of site + forum and there's really not much mods are in charge of on the site. All we can do is mod descriptions, really.

 

For rules (as someone asked for my suggestions before I disappeared for the weekend), I do not think we are going to go back to allowing two-ways whatsoever. Call outs happened with and without callouts so we may as well avoid the trade demands and stick to gifting. Perhaps the thread might allow PMs for dragons again (which I see some users have suggested)?

 

As for chat, I think I cleared that up a bit here: it is fine to thank people for posting dragon eggs, etc. What is not acceptable in the thread is discussion on how people don't give back, posts on how/why you don't use the thread/why you use two-ways/PMs, etc. All that does is turn the thread into a ranting thread.

 

But again, those would need discussed/approved by the OP.

 

I would like the forum to have the ability to look up a person by scroll name. Sometime I see a lineage that I LOVE and I see the scroll, but the name they've chosen here is different from what they've named their scroll.

 

The only issue I see with this is that some people have different forum and scroll names for a reason. ^^

Edited October 21, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler