2015-12-03 - Sprite Update (Round Two)

[danicast]

Ok, now I've seen them in lineage view (to anyone having problems with that, try restarting your browser - worked for me), I think that the new Silvers are certainly different, but in a way I can get used to. And this looks even more awesome than it did yesterday! (Well, two LadyLyzar draggies - figures.) Hope he likes his mate.

wow wow wow wow

This really looks good!!

I need to get some to myself!

Thanks for the idea!

[Chrisabell]

The silvers were beautiful before, but now, They're gorgeous! I'm loving the updates. =D

[helix9]

Ok, now I've seen them in lineage view (to anyone having problems with that, try restarting your browser - worked for me), I think that the new Silvers are certainly different, but in a way I can get used to.  And this looks even more awesome than it did yesterday!    (Well, two LadyLyzar draggies - figures.)  Hope he likes his mate. 

And the males look so lovely and bright next to skywings as well! I don't have any female silver checkers but they fit right in with the bright colors of this lineage of mine.

Edited December 3, 2015 by helix9

[NotBambi]

And this looks even more awesome than it did yesterday!    (Well, two LadyLyzar draggies - figures.) 

Beautiful!

[Toyo]

Oooh, the eggs are going to confused the heck out of me for a while, but it will make it easier to pick out of the AP- I used to grab so many whites :\

[LadyLyzar]

I did expect some backlash since the Silvers are some of our most popular beasties.

 

As for the male, he was worked and reworked numerous times in the public eye. I accepted any and all crits given within reason.

 

The new sprite addresses the dull gray (which was in the works to be fixed long before that topic was ever opened.) It also fixes his broken neck. In the Silver Update thread, I did experiment with a head down version that still left his neck unbroken, but no one liked it. His face was also tweaked many times.

 

This version was the one that most people liked, and very little was changed after the topic was closed except for fluffing out his mane. That's about it.

 

The Silver Update thread was open for a very long time. I'm sorry some of you don't like him, but most of you had ample time to voice your concerns. I am pleased with the result - I feel it honors the spirit of the original Silvers while fixing issues and bringing them out to their full potential as a beautiful rare dragon, while taking users' concerns seriously and trying to implement them as best as possible.

 

The silvers are described as being radiant creatures, among the most beautiful of all dragons, that give off a glow that lights up their surroundings. The old sprites, while beautiful in their own right, did not really show that.

 

I honestly expected more backlash on the female since she was finished after the public topic was closed.

 

Kitoxa will remain on the credits as they are her design.

 

This is the last I will say on the matter.

[Shokomon]

I'm part of the Disappointed-by-the-Silvers Team. I mean the Anatomy is better and they are shiny (and I like shiny), but they are a bit to white in color now, and some of the cuddliness in the sprites is lost. I'll get used to it though.

 

The SPLITS THOUGH!! They look awesome! They look fierce, and I love the extra details on them! I don't know about any of y'all, but they look Awesome!!! And they fixed the wings that didn't make sense before.

 

[dustpuppy]

Not a fan of the Silver update. Oh well, can't please everyone...

 

But I love love LOVE the new Two-headeds! I always liked them but now they're absolutely stunning. Thank you!

[sene]

I'm not resistant to change, but I am resistant to change just for change's sake.

Exactly. Almost everyone loves the new two-headed, which is evidence that people are not resistant to, at least some of the changes.

Edited December 3, 2015 by sene

[angelicdragonpuppy]

 

 

 

 

'... New players who joined, saw all the cool dragons, and then worked really hard to collect a rare silver just to find out how wonky it looked were probably going to be quite disappointed. ...'

 

 

Hi, ADP, much as I hate to question anything you may think, while I can see some of your points, one thing I find odd about such claims as contained in the quote above is that new people would see the older dragons long before getting any of their own, and could decide for themselves whether to bother, rather than having a nasty surprise as their Silvers hatched and grew up to be Silvers.

 

Is this 'surprise' disappointment in new people something you've noticed personally, based on your own observations, or something you've heard repeated often enough recently to accept it as a fact?

 

I have personally not noticed any general unpopularity or lack of demand for CB Silvers based on their 'wonkiness' at any point, and for years have almost never seen them in the Cave, due to them being snatched up so quickly by those with faster systems than I - this, despite complaints from some, but not all, generally consisting of anatomy issues disturbing the more artistic and, in some cases, among those with monitors showing the colours as grey or white, that they were not shiny enough, not so much that the dragons or that the other colours themselves needed to be altered so extensively.

 

Not that everyone agreed on what needed to be done or which of any suggested changes would be best. If there's no consensus on change, is the best bet really to inevitably shift dissatisfaction from some groups to others?

 

The now-typically much lower 'pricing' relative to Golds has seemingly been based more on a common assumption of Gold being more valuable than Silver than anything else, since this was present to some degree (if slight and limited to some people) even prior to the new Golds - with the Golds being snatched up ever faster as the designated main medium of exchange for 2nd gen Prizes once those became an issue, also based on this assumption, (and what would appear to be droughts previously appearing, based on user-demand not visible on the scrolls of, apparently, most, or in fansites, as TJ insisted that they were Dropping at the same rates - and with DC egg-catching scripts being offered on various sites,) and increasing their user-created rarity level of virtual invisibility for most above even that of the Silvers, as the fastest catchers seeking 'trade value' dragons tend to, quite logically, load up on those perceived as being the most valuable trade-wise, in order to pack the maximum 'wealth' in limited scroll space.

 

If you recall, the difference in rarity was not originally nearly as pronounced in earlier times, with less disparity between average and super-fast speeds and with the Cave (when open, lol,) actually moving, with even people like myself on genuine antique computers seeing a Gold on average every hour of hunting and similar numbers for Silvers perhaps somewhat more common. Back then, I caught several of each, even if it did take me months of fanatical, all-night hunting. And back then, the general trend was to more value dragons as dragons, as sprites loved for themselves and/or wanted for lineages/scroll goals rather than as 'trade fodder' to be exchanged for other, more 'valuable' dragons.

 

Personally, I'd have thought a suitable compromise would have involved down-grading the old Silvers to UNCommons and releasing new Silvers, even though I expect that many of us would never have caught the new, unless the numbers were sufficient to fill in the ratios based on the preponderance of old Silvers already on people's scrolls, which would seem reasonable to me.

 

Many of us spent months and years painfully accumulating the Silvers we had, because we loved them as they were, despite their faults, before they were changed into something completely different and changing lineages often years in the making.

 

I still believe that having a decent Release of these new Silvers as new dragons would have wasted far less time, emotion and effort than has been by simply replacing them and the lineages as well.

 

The concern about disappointing new people, who might, in any event, not stay all that long, having little invested, has instead disappointed a number of older members losing valued gifts and years and much frustrating labour invested in catching/trading for sprites valued for themselves as they were, and in breeding lineages now altered in a manner representing a massive waste and heartbreak to many, along with removing much of the purpose they may have variously had in collecting and/or breeding immortal dragons now to be subject to change at any time.

 

The logic of this escapes me. Once you think about it, does it really make sense to you?

 

 

 

Edit: hi, harlequinraven,

 

actually, it took me a while to write that, also spending some time downstairs taking care of kitties (wanted to get to the litter-boxes and what-not, not just food and fresh water) and chatting with one of my roommates when going down for coffee, so I actually didn't see your post until after I'd finished it and went to look back at what had been written in the interim.

 

The post I referred to was somewhere well before page 8, lol.

Yes, disappointment was something I'd noticed in both new AND old users--as I'd mentioned before, I was rather looking forward to an update myself, even though of course now I regret it. X'D

The old "update the silvers" thread had quite a lot of people wanting to see them fixed up.

 

While you're right that people could see silvers and choose to avoid them, and that silvers still get snatched quickly and trade well, I disagree that their looks weren't still a problem. If I joined a new collecting game with lots of awesome dragons, and then found out one of the rarest looked fairly ugly in comparison, I'd be disappointed--but a rare is still a rare, and I'd collect them regardless, even if I didn't personally care for them. If Silvers had simply been uncommons, however, I think you WOULD have seen a noticeable lack of interest in collecting them compared to other uncommons. Trios are a good example; the sprites are all pretty nice (I loveee thunders and magmas are so cool--err, hot?--and ices look great in many bright lineages!), but they just aren't as pretty, to me, as coppers and xenos, and sure enough the latter two seem to be more highly sought after then trios even though all the rarities are fairly similar (or, in the case of trio vs xeno, perhaps even slightly higher in the trios favor). Maybe it's just because they've been around so long that most people already have all the trios they need, but iunno.

 

Now, obviously, you have a point that change will hurt feelings regardless of what change it is. In this, I agree! Hm, to put my jumbled thoughts together on that matter, apologies for the randomness... Some small changes (like the hollies and now, the splits) seem to have done a very good job at retaining the feel of the old while also looking more visually epic. Perhaps I'm biased, but it seems that the response to the silvers has been far, far more negative than the reactions to the other two breeds I mentioned, which I believe shows that, for many of us, updates are not a problem so much as more drastic updates are a problem (if my view is skewed and lots of people hated the holly update, though, do correct me!). Personally while I feared my lineages would be ruined (and, indeed, they were for me), it was exactly what I liked about the silvers in the first place that made me WANT them updated, just slightly so. They were beautiful majestic creatures that looked good with so many other dragons. I was hoping to keep that look while also fixing the anatomy issues and making them look more like the regal, graceful beauties that I always envisioned them as. I think this is how lots of people see updates--not destruction of what we love, but improvement. Of course, the thin line is how to keep the old look in the process, which I feel some updates have and some haven't at all. It's because of this uncertainty that I don't usually call for updates as a matter of course, and why I support the option to keep viewing dragons as they were when they were released.

 

Also, on an unrelated note, I think making the old sprites into uncommons would've been a horrible idea, actually. Losing all the value I put into trading / hunting old silvers would be almost as frustrating as having my lineages ruined has been. Just yesterday I traded some CB Silvers for some very nice things, and you can bet your biscuits that I would've been mad if either I lost what I paid for them (since what I paid would now be worth much more) or if the person I was trading with felt cheated. To say nothing of the horrors of all the thousands of us desperately trying to collect new super rares. ;;

[CDM]

I, for one, never replied in the Silver thread because 1) I didn't think they would actually change the Silvers and 2) I never wanted to change them in the first place and therefore, knew my voice wouldn't be heard over the ones who did. And the fact that people were replying in that thread meant that they were the ones that DID want change, why would they listen to what I had to say as someone who wanted the Silvers left alone? I saw others get shot down for actually speaking up and "voicing their concerns" about not wanting the change, so why would I post? (That thread was also more of a Which Updated Sprite Do You Like Better?, and not a Should We Update The Silver Yes Or No?)

 

The people that did speak up were told, just like they/we are being told now, that it's just because we don't like change....deal with it and stop whining.

 

 

However, your re-working of the sprites is beautiful, and I thank you for all the work you put into them.

 

 

 

 

 

eta: If people are wondering why I'm speaking up, for once, you only have to look at my scroll. Silvers have always been my breed of choice, right from the beginning back in 2008. I have almost 400 Silvers with 62 of them being CB. They are my most hunted, most gifted, and most bred of any of the dragon breeds. No matter how many CB Silvers I've caught to keep, and have gifted, my heart still races when I see one pop-up in the Biomes, and I still get disappointed when I miss. Even in my Avatar, the egg that holds pride of place on the Grim Reaper's lap is a Silver.

Edited December 3, 2015 by CDM

[NotBambi]

Just saw the new silver hatchies, they look like they are about to fall over

 

Edit: aw, don't like the new split hatchies either, I loved the cute pose they had before. At least the adults are awesome though.

 

What do people think are the other candidates for sprite updates? Stone, dorsal, vine, and red are the only ones I can think of (and I know there was an amazing redone red floating around--a lot like the split update, gorgeous but dead on in being similar to the old one). Nothing else seems in need of much updating.

Any chance you could point to the redone Red? I agree with the candidates you mentioned. Would like to add a couple more candidates but I'm afraid of the reactions

[helix9]

I honestly expected more backlash on the female since she was finished after the public topic was closed.

I have a feeling that future sprite updates will have to remain secret and out of the public eye. The more out-of-nowhere updates like the splits and horses seem to be hugely positive, as well as the female silver like you mention. Giving people time to build expectations never goes as planned.

[Dragon012]

Love the new Two-Headed sprite.

[FireMaster13]

I, for one, never replied in the Silver thread because 1) I didn't think they would actually change the Silvers and 2) I never wanted to change them in the first place and therefore, knew my voice wouldn't be heard over the ones who did. And the fact that people were replying in that thread meant that they were the ones that DID want change, why would they listen to what I had to say as someone who wanted the Silvers left alone? I saw others get shot down for actually speaking up and "voicing their concerns" about not wanting the change, so why would I post? (That thread was also more of a Which Updated Sprite Do You Like Better?, and not a Should We Update The Silver Yes Or No?)

 

However, your re-working of the sprites is beautiful, and I thank you for all the work you put into them.

A lot of that sentiment is probably true for a lot of users that don't much care for the update. I would have felt the same way.

 

For me, since I'm not 100% familiar with the forums, I didn't even know there was a thread to debate the update or design in the first place. So, no, I didn't have ample time to voice concerns over a thread I knew nothing about. *Shrugs* I'm probably not the only one who was unaware there was a thread.

 

[nay279]

I love them! The shading and stuff is awesome! I always thought the wings on the old sprites looked weird so now they look a lot better! Whether the change is good or bad, though, it always takes me a while to get used to it.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Any chance you could point to the redone Red? I agree with the candidates you mentioned. Would like to add a couple more candidates but I'm afraid of the reactions

Unfortunately I can't find it anywhere and it's not in her gallery ;A; sent her an email inquiry, because I'm curious to see them again, too!

[silver_tiger]

A lot of that sentiment is probably true for a lot of users that don't much care for the update. I would have felt the same way.

 

For me, since I'm not 100% familiar with the forums, I didn't even know there was a thread to debate the update or design in the first place. So, no, I didn't have ample time to voice concerns over a thread I knew nothing about. *Shrugs* I'm probably not the only one who was unaware there was a thread.

I also had no idea there was a chance the silvers would get updated, and no idea there was a place to voice our opinions before the announcement was made. By that point of course, it was already closed. I certainly would have commented on the lack of fluffy manes, had I known the thread existed.

[Fawkesian]

Just noticed the sprite changes a few minutes ago. I like them! They're different, yeah, but for me this is just extra motivation to catch that last Silver I've been looking for. Thank you to the spriters for your hard work!

[Zoa]

nicely done, particularly with the anatomy details on _all_ of the updated sprites.

[stagazer_7]

I have a feeling that future sprite updates will have to remain secret and out of the public eye. The more out-of-nowhere updates like the splits and horses seem to be hugely positive, as well as the female silver like you mention. Giving people time to build expectations never goes as planned.

Hidden or announced, there would have been backlash for the Silvers update, they're iconic ultra rare dragons, one of the few true Metallic breeds - many of us created dozens or more of various lineages with them so it's only natural we would be attached to them and the new variation of the original beloved sprite would not please everyone. :3 Perhaps minor anatomic tweaks and scale polishing would have been accepted better, but these new Silvers are here to stay and in time I believe we're all going to get used to them.

 

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I don't think I replied in the Silver Update thread, because I kind of didn't see any real need for the update, didn't believe it would be updated and also mostly because, at that time, while there were some neat sprites there, some of higher quality then others, I didn't feel any of the sprites there were suitable replacements. I definitely have some favorites among them now and it's nice to see different Silver variations after all these years.

Edited December 3, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Cupup889]

Bruh.

 

Very well done, they look absolutely gorgeous!

 

Would never have predicted a change for the two headed dragons; but I'm glad it happened, as TJ stated, those wings are astonishing. Kudos to spriters.

 

( Sorry to anyone who had wished for them to stay as they were. I understand change can be hard and somethings people just want things to stay the same It preserves it. Although, please try to be happy. You don't have to like it, but don't let it get you down. )

 

Again, very well done; I can't wait to see more later on in the future! <3

[drabrugon]

The concern about disappointing new people, who might, in any event, not stay all that long, having little invested, has instead disappointed a number of older members losing valued gifts and years and much frustrating labour invested in catching/trading for sprites valued for themselves as they were, and in breeding lineages now altered in a manner representing a massive waste and heartbreak to many, along with removing much of the purpose they may have variously had in collecting and/or breeding immortal dragons now to be subject to change at any time.

 

The logic of this escapes me.

 

Thank you Syphoneira, this is exactly the point that bothers me.

 

I am not against changes, but this update is too much of a change for me. I feel like all the effort I put into hunting and trading for Silvers for lineages was a waste of time. I do not have what I wanted to have anymore. I am used to the fact that on DC everything is working like "what you see is what you get". Every player is free to decide what dragon he likes and wanted to collect and which dragons are not included in the collection. That is very fair I think.

 

I know that LadyLyzar put a lot of effort in the sprite and I do not want to hurt her feelings, but I am still disappointed because my effort was a waste of many hours which I spent with hunting and trading, not to mention all the wonderful gifts very kind people helped me with. Maybe I am whining right now and that I am a bad loser, but still I wanted to state my opinion and that is that I lost a wonderful sprite in my collection. I see that the old sprite had its flaws, but that was part of its charm and I decided to collect them without being perfect in every way. Even giving me a completely different new dragon for free is not able to change my feelings on this "update" - a great sprite was taken away from me and I am forced to accept what I get instead. To me that is somehow unfair.

[Nine]

The Silver Update thread was open for a very long time.  I'm sorry some of you don't like him, but most of you had ample time to voice your concerns.

It was never stated at the time that the Silvers were to be actually revamped, nor that any of the art being posted was going to be used on site. There was nothing official or organized about the thread; it appeared to be just artists posting what they thought they could do to revamp the sprites. Had I known that the sprites were going to be used, I would've made sure to add in my own critique to the thread.

 

The revamps aren't doing much for me. The Silvers are too soft and bright for my tastes (I truly didn't care that the originals were a darker shade). The Splits, as one of my favorite dragons and the first I ever raised, I'm not so fond of the nose spikes or how ripped and tense the thighs look. I'm glad the pose and raised arm and stuff were kept the same. I don't mind the revamp overall-- it didn't change my liking of the breed, unlike the Nilias.

 

Oh hindsight, I wish the Split's wings were more folded so we could see the outside color, and not as much as the inside. I can't tell if the male is slightly lighter in color than he was before, or if it's just my screen.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Nine

[pinkgothic]

Aww.

 

I remember the male one from the silver update thread and always hoped that, if the silvers were redone, that one would 'win' - and it did! I'm happy for that sprite. The female one unfortunately not so much. The scruffiness of her mane is gone, and unlike on the male, her eye looks very stretched. I like her significantly less now.

 

That said, I'm glad the sprites got an update. (Even if it makes this lineage look really weird now. But oh well. You win some, you lose some... )

 

The silver hatchlings are OK, but they basically look like leaping horses now, and I'm not a fan of horses. But nice shading on the manes and tailfluff!

 

The splits are nice now. My instinct was to be sadder about their update than about the silver one, but that seems to have stemmed mostly from having troubles making out their faces right, and by now I can see them correctly / as intended, and now they look fine. Thank you!

Edited December 3, 2015 by pinkgothic