2015-12-03 - Sprite Update (Round Two)

[Crystallie]

If you have to make edits, you should make them as minimal as possible and maybe improve the shading a bit but don't change the whole thing by drawing a whole new sprite.

This. The change is so drastic that my silvers look nothing like what they used to be. Obviously some tweaks had to be made, but was it really necessary to change them so much?

 

The sprites are lovely, but I would be much happier if they were a new dragon instead of a replacement.

[Sir Barton]

And the reason they don't have to be the best of the best is because the Golds and Silvers are.

 

Cheers!

C4.

And yet I don't feel like they are the best of the best. I think the Lunar Heralds, Neglected, Xenowyrms, and the majority of Holiday breeds are by far better than either Golds or Silvers. They have FAR more character. The only thing that makes the metals stand out is the fact that they are rare, and some folks don't care about that. While I'm certain that I'm in the minority, I play this as a collecting game, not a trading game, so site value is meaningless.

 

If I was inclined to work lineages, which I'm not and these changes to sprites makes that even less interesting to me, I would use the Heralds to do anything that required a metallic looking mate. I find them much more attractive, sprite line wise, and the common factor means a good deal less frustration in the end. .... minus the moon phase thing.

 

While I don't know, I can't help but feel that there are still far fewer CB prizes than CB golds and silvers out there, making them the rarest breeds since those seeking metals are generally aiming for CB. Not to mention, 2nd gen prizes often were, and possible still are traded for multiple metals. I believe that would make prizes more of a flagship breed, by your definition.

 

For me, a Flagship breed would be Black Marrows. They are one of the first breeds I show people when discussing the site. That's also the only breed that sparked the idea of having it turned into a tattoo because I find it so unique. That, for me, is hands down one of the BEST of the BEST.

 

Truth be told, I'm almost positive that the absolute rarest dragons out there are CB hybrids, but that's another story all together.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Sir Barton

[NecronLordofLawtan]

This has made my day. Right as I got my first Caveborn Silver, the update makes it look much better

 

(I don't know what is meant by Caveborn Hybrids - to my knowledge that isn't a thing ?.?)

[Sir Barton]

This has made my day. Right as I got my first Caveborn Silver, the update makes it look much better 

 

(I don't know what is meant by Caveborn Hybrids - to my knowledge that isn't a thing ?.?)

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Winya

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/VFrOo

 

Honorable mention prizes from previous raffles.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Sir Barton

[Cheystar]

I love the silvers now. Beautiful job.

 

The one I'm disappointed that hasn't changed, is one I both love and hate, the Red Dragons. Those are in desperate need of a makeover.

[Thuban]

Thuban's story time!

 

When I tell people about this site, I link to the dragons that won me over, and then to the wiki list, so people can see the variety. The interesting thing is that it is the classic dragons that my people latch onto.

 

Red, pebble, eyesearing magi, and then some of the newer ones including the furry wyverns, the trihorns, blusang.

 

What got me on the site: winters. The male sprite, and the adorable egg. Yule eggs too. I had seen Holly eggs floating around, and had been following the complaints about how rare autumns had been. When I joined this site, people HATED silvers. You just couldnt give them away they were so common. Multi clutches were still a thing, and silvers had been everywhere, while cb blacks were the super rare.

 

 

I have never cared for female silvers, and honestly, didnt even care about the male ones until LBDs Space Chickens gave me the idea to make my own version of her cult. Even with my love for my crazy little cult, it was only the one male silver I owned, Kensa Jipci that I liked, and it was purely because of how frustrating he had been to find a mate for (he refused 5 cb blacks, before setting on his psychotic mate). The story behind him made me like him, not the art.

 

I hated balloons. Hated them. Then, i Had the opportunity to dress them up. That Santa dress up was incredibly stressful, but had me giggling. I had been proud of how much fatter he looked, without changing his lines. Then came the hatchys. I found it amusing that hardly anyone noticed the s2 had a blinking nose (it was rather subtle, and really only noticible if you had several of them. I didnt at the time, as I was still anti-freezing. Seeing them done up as deer, made me look at them differently, made me see potential, where I hadnt before. I had set out to see if I could make them "false rares" not long after. When Prizes came out, I immediately set out to try to collect second gens from balloon lines, because i knew that it was unlikely anyone would ask for that, and to be fair, a lot of the owners we're grateful to try something less common, try something new. And guys, balloons actually look nice with a lot of things, derpy weird sprite and all. My goal had been to create lines to get people to collect a sprite I knew they hated, and people did.

 

Weather Balloons were another attempt at that. I wanted to see if I could take two breeds I was attached to and see if I could find a way to make balloon haters, like them. It seemed to be pretty successful. A few people out there have mentioned they started giving balloons a second look because of it.

 

What does any of that have to do with this?

 

The sprites I latched onto, I didnt /like/. It wasnt until I came up with stories.. a goal that I like them. I assigned personality to them, and then became determined to share that newly found love with other people. Im oddly protective of both balloons and seasonals, despite not having any claims to them (outside of blanket permissions I had been given by their spriter, for playing with them). Sure, over the years, I have played with seeing if I could "update" them without changing them, and I had some successes here and there, but it wasnt ever really a "i need to replace these" thing. I still do not like female silvers. As long as that pose of hers is preserved, I just wont like her. I still try to find her lineages I do like, but she is the bottom of the totem pole for me.

 

Yes, the updated sprites are changing projects I have done. The change in how blue the new silver boys are, makes them look funny in some of my lines, but i was always picky about how he looked in lines. Because of the new updates, I am now collecting breeds I had no interest in, because I happened to like some of the test breeds I had done. Sure, my pirate chickens look weird now (silver/sunsets) but I now have 5 new lineages I cant wait to work on, because silvers finally look the way I hoped they would in the other lineages I've done.

 

Its pretty obvious that there are breeds, that is changed/updated, could potentially "ruin" over half my scroll. And yea.. I'd be really, really upset about it. Eventually though, knowing what kind of person I am, I know I'll find a way to make NEW things work. But, I wont attack the staff, or the artists over it. Its just a part of life to me. Things change, they always change. There is no rule anywhere that says I have to like the changes. The only thing I can do is find ways to make the changes work for me, and I am cool with that challenge.

[Sycamore]

The one I'm disappointed that hasn't changed, is one I both love and hate, the Red Dragons. Those are in desperate need of a makeover.

Ugh, no. They're one of the only breeds that have that heraldic style. If there's going to be a new red dragon, let there be a NEW red dragon.

 

The only thing I can do is find ways to make the changes work for me.

Actually, in a healthy site/environment, expressing your disappointment with the premise behind the changes and the effect those changes have on your enjoyment of the site is totally valid and constructive. Edited December 6, 2015 by Sycamore

[Nyxity]

Boy, people are pickity-snickity...

 

Looking at the old and new Silvers side-by-side on the first post, I can see the benefits. Though the poses come off as "changed" for some people, they are less so changed as made to be more anatomically correct and realistic. Essentially, they are the same poses, just better executed. The same with the fur. It is the same fur, only made to look more realistic and flowing rather than stiff and like cut fringes. They also now have the same head shape - wow, they share the same skeletal structure after all these years!

 

About the only things that come off as particularly different in essence is the coloring... They seem more like white dragons due to the brightness and only when you look really close do they come off as a sort of liquid silver... Considering the shadows and not wanting them to come off as a darker silver-tone metal, I get it.

 

All-in-all, they are as advertised: "new set, designed to preserve the pose and feel of the old sprites while bringing in new shading and improved anatomy."

 

Overall, I still see them as the same dragon, just done by different artists. The only nit-pick I have is that the fur that lines their backs could have had some separation/layered areas like how the tail ends do. Since they don't have that, they seem more fuzzy or cotton-like than sleek locks. Who knows, though? There are likely some who like the fur looking fluffier.

 

Does that break my heart or cause my aesthetic sensibilities to cringe away in disgust? No. It is art. As it goes, you can get many good to great artists, tell them to study and draw a single subject (in this case, the silver dragon) as closely to its true appearance as possible. You are not going to get the exact same results from any of those people, much less have all of their pictures looking the same. There are different techniques, sense of colors, state-of-minds.

[Cheystar]

Ugh, no. They're one of the only breeds that have that heraldic style. If there's going to be a new red dragon, let there be a NEW red dragon.

 

I hate their feet. And their heads. I love the dragon overall, just not it's looks. So we will agree to disagree.

 

But I'd love to see more red dragons that aren't holiday related.

[Sir Barton]

Ugh, no.  They're one of the only breeds that have that heraldic style.  If there's going to be a new red dragon, let there be a NEW red dragon.

Couldn't agree more. It is a change in the Red that could actually cause me to walk away. While it was a mint in someone's signature on forum site that brought me here, it was the red that won my heart. I've always been attracted to the fire element, and the heraldic style that immediately brought to mind the Welsh flag was what sold DC to me. His loss will make the last seven years completely meaningless apart from some of the good friends I've made.

 

Years ago, Kila said that she was the only one who had been given permission to update the Reds, and she was just looking to tweak shading and get him off his invisible hill. Something like that, should be alright, but any more.....

Edited December 6, 2015 by Sir Barton

[diaveborn]

Boy, people are pickity-snickity...

Why wouldn't they be? All we have on this site is the art. It's a really big deal.

[Gluria]

... And here am I, loving the new Silvers and hoping for makeovers for many other breeds. I feel like an alien.

[NotBambi]

... And here am I, loving the new Silvers and hoping for makeovers for many other breeds. I feel like an alien.

You're not an alien. Many others feel exactly the same. I know I do. But at this point, I do not care about debating anymore. I read TJ's posts and I interpreted them as: older sprites could be updated. We shall see

[Shato]

People getting upset at better art, what's next.

 

I'm honestly not even seeing such a DRASTIC difference all the others are complaining about or how this would at all ruin lineages. Albinos need an update though, they're so ugly.

[Fuzzbucket]

Couldn't agree more. It is a change in the Red that could actually cause me to walk away. While it was a mint in someone's signature on forum site that brought me here, it was the red that won my heart. I've always been attracted to the fire element, and the heraldic style that immediately brought to mind the Welsh flag was what sold DC to me. His loss will make the last seven years completely meaningless apart from some of the good friends I've made.

 

Years ago, Kila said that she was the only one who had been given permission to update the Reds, and she was just looking to tweak shading and get him off his invisible hill. Something like that, should be alright, but any more.....

Mee Three. I LOVE the chunky reds just the way they are. And I mean JUST THE WAY THEY ARE, not cleaned up even a teeny bit. I would trust Kila to do tiny tweaks, but NO-ONE else. As I think she knows what is meant by teeny tweaks.

 

But I think also she is no longer active, so....

[Thuban]

Actually, in a healthy site/environment, expressing your disappointment with the premise behind the changes and the effect those changes have on your enjoyment of the site is totally valid and constructive.

Who says I wouldnt express my disappointment?

 

For me, it simply comes down to: A thing happened, it's been established that this new thing is going to stay, so instead of moping around about it, I'm going to make the best of it. Im not trying to invalidate anyones experiences here, but only share a slightly different point of view.

 

The sprites changing, arent the end of the world to me. My husband almost died this week, my daughter has been in and out of the ER 4 times now this week, our bank account has been empty this entire time, I cant afford the meds needed to keep my daughter breathing properly, so have been forced to have to improvise. Sure, the sprite changes DO affect me negatively in some senses, however, because I'm the type of person who relies heavily on trying to focus on silver linings, just to get through day to day life, I would much rather focus on the thrill of finding new ways to make things work for me, than focus on "of this and this got ruined, and they took my favorite thing and ruined it".

 

I dont see a need to blast the artists for attempting the changes they have done. Do I like every update? No. Am i worried about breeds I enjoy most? Yea, totally. But seeing that my RL crumbled overnight, I can appreciate the fact that what is happening here is really nothing more than trying to make a good thing, better (even if it doesnt suit everyone).

 

I talked to LadyLyzar in private, made jokes about the things i saw wrong, that I had missed during the process. I made jokes about the male boy having a "balloon" face, and explained why I said it. I saw no need to blast it (especially knowing how upset I had made some people when it came to the gold updates). I try not to be the person that has to cause a big scene when something happens that i don't like, though I'm not always great at it... Mob mentality scares me, and having had my own small dose of it, I would absolutely hate it if it happen to anything of mine that ever got released (hah, yea right, nothing of mine will ever see release, lol). My potato looking like poo to the majority of people was enough, thanks.

[vivo]

"Wha wha, legitimately inferior things are better!"

[Fuzzbucket]

"Wha wha, legitimately inferior things are better!"

Inferior is in the eye of the beholder.

[Sycamore]

Years ago, Kila said that she was the only one who had been given permission to update the Reds, and she was just looking to tweak shading and get him off his invisible hill. Something like that, should be alright, but any more.....

This is such a relief! Half the reason I decided to make a Welsh flag pennant was because of the Red's heraldic look.

[cbussiere]

First off, let me say that I love the new splits. I never cared for them much before, but that defined musculature is lovely and their bulldoggish faces (well, not really, but that's what they remind me of) give them much more personality.

 

However, I'm pretty disappointed about the silvers. They were among my favorites when I first joined the site, if not my top favorite, especially the female. Something about her was just so cute and graceful. I was hoping they'd just get an update on the shading, which I admit was rather dull, but I wasn't expecting an entire redo. While I think removing the smoothness from the splits' faces' profiles worked well for them, the silver's face looks much more masculine now. The once-defined mane just looks like a solid blob of pink now. The male's mane is better, but I think it would have benefited from preserving the uneven outline, to suggest waving locks. The dense, dark shading on the female's tail tuft is rather distracting with its high contrast. I always found the tucked together front legs endearing, and I feel the new pose has lost some of its character. The feel of the pose has gone from all neatly tucked to much looser. And I'm not sure why, but she seems bigger than the male now, and her head looks a bit too big. Overall, the new female sprite feels to me less neatly defined and more masculine. I like the new male much more, but I'm still a bit sad over the loss of that regal curve in his neck. I love his hind legs, though. And while the female looks more masculine to me now, I think the male looks less masculine. Part of that is the loss of his strong neck, but I think it's also that the mane on his head is much less pronounced now with the lighter color and fainter outline. So for both of the silver sprites, I like the new shading, but I think both sprites have lost a lot of the character that initially drew me to them. Among the rest of the early sprites, which were often awkward or just unspectacular, they stood out as one of the dragons with the best art. As new dragons with more detailed and more deeply shaded art came in, they silvers never felt outdated to me. I appreciated their graceful simplicity. And honestly, the anatomy didn't warrant an entirely new sprite. The old female's left (her left) shoulder jutted out a bit oddly, and male's chest area may have too-sharp bends, but I think slightly tweaking things like that and updating the shading, rather than outright replacing the sprite, would have much better overall reception. That's how you preserve the feel of a sprite, not by entirely redoing it.

 

I haven't read through this whole thread, but it seems like there's some controversy over the silvers. So I hope to see a bit more tweaking, as with the nilias, to bring them closer to the "feel of the old sprites" that was advertised. And I apologize for being so nitpicky, but the silvers have always been near and dear to my heart.

[rubyshoes]

Going to go ahead and close the thread. Most should have seen the update announcement/updated sprites by now.

 

Some threads that might be of interest:

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=172272 Option to view updated sprites differently, To suit everyone's needs

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=172286 Change male Silver lineage Tile

 

 

Feel free to PM me links to any other threads that might be of interest about the updates

Edited December 6, 2015 by rubyshoes