2015-12-03 - Sprite Update (Round Two)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think several of the posts made by those against the new design have stated, tactfully, what they didn't like about the design and how it could improve (granted, many didn't).

What I find just as insulting, though, is every frustrated player's dislike being dismissed and then told "Alas, the old sprites have been removed from the code. They're gone and aren't coming back. The ship has sailed."

 

We know there was someone behind the work and many tried to explain why it was that they didn't like the new design, with tact. In the very least the concerns could be responded to in a likewise courteous manner.

This.

 

I realize that work went into making the new sprites. Probably hours of work. But that doesn't change that I don't like them very much. They're pretty on their own, but there are also a lot of things that I don't like. They look too faint / bright in lineage views, which has made dozens of lineages I've spent hours on look disgusting to me, or at the very least highly disappointing. The female has other issues to me; her back leg looks too stretched out and undefined, and her mane is so compact that it looks more like a thick shrub then flowing fur. The hatchlings also now look like they're about to fall over--the pose is very heavy on the topside, as if they're leaning too far forward. Overall I feel like I've had my old dragons swapped out with strange copycats, rather than having my old dragons simply given new life, like with the hollies and splits. I would've preferred a few of the suggested new silvers to my old ones, but I prefer my old ones over these new ones.

 

This was the first update that really hit home for me in a bad way, and the usual flock of people telling us to, and I quote, "hush up and get used to it," or from almighty TJ himself the unsympathetic response of "They're gone and aren't coming back. The ship has sailed," well, it's not appreciated.

[Ribombee]

I'll agree to that. Being an artist myself, I try to make my dislike about something worded with specifics or critique in mind, not all out trashing.

 

I was adding to your point the other side of the coin, responding to the dislike, could also be said in a courteous manner.

Yes, this is exactly the way to go about it. And yes, I agree that the response could have been better (though perhaps not intentionally brusque, as it can be difficult to tell online), but we can all still be mature people and handle this with grace and courtesy to the spriters who worked very hard on the updates. Personal attacks on them are extremely immature and rude. Politely pointing out what we felt was an issue got us a lovely fix for the nilia pygmies, and is a prime example of how constructive criticism can work.

 

This was the first update that really hit home for me in a bad way, and the usual flock of people telling us to, and I quote, "hush up and get used to it," or from almighty TJ himself the unsympathetic response of "They're gone and aren't coming back. The ship has sailed," well, it's not appreciated.

 

I also agree that such "hush up" responses are not acceptable and have previous addressed this in my posts. There is no reason that people have to like it, and even not liking it for the sake of not liking change is not a reason to invalidate a person's opinion on the change. Some basic respect for fellow humans is in order for all sides of this.

Edited December 4, 2015 by harlequinraven

[Odeen]

This was the first update that really hit home for me in a bad way, and the usual flock of people telling us to, and I quote, "hush up and get used to it," or from almighty TJ himself the unsympathetic response of "They're gone and aren't coming back. The ship has sailed," well, it's not appreciated.

I'm pretty sure T.J.'s tone was actually sympathetic toward people who aren't fans of the change. One need not comply with demands to be sympathetic toward the feelings of the people making them; he was simply explaining why those demands can't or won't be met.

[Vhale]

I was kinda hoping they'd get left alone after Lunars came out. Lunars are stunning. So seemed kinda pointless to change silvers when we've got a lovely silver metallic now.

 

I also likes Opal's sprites as far as the tweaked sprites, I thought the mane was clearer. I think the softer style was more suited for LadyLyzars reworked sprites that were larger and had room to showcase it. If they'd gone the total rework route, I thought those would have been best.

[dragontamer44722]

That's the hard part about writing out responses, you can't tell if its meant to be sympathetic or be chiding.

 

People are of course entitled to feel the way they feel about change, and while I welcome it, I can understand the frustration of those who don't and sympathize with them. However, change is inevitable, and to me, DC is going the route of realism, which the old Silvers kinda...lacked. They weren't ugly by any means, but compared to other dragons they stuck out, at least to me. But you can't please everyone unfortunately, its just a fact of life. I look forward to future revamps (if any are in the works) and new releases to come!

Edited December 4, 2015 by dragontamer44722

[MessengerDragon]

Don't mind the splits, but the silver hatchlings look weird to me, and they have lost their featheryness. And their egg is a pearl instead of a silver to me.

 

Good art though, so good job artists, just not quite in my style.

Just wanted to add a bit, since other people have said really well what I feel:

EDIT:  I think the main point of consternation for me is that the silver hatchling used to look like it was curling in on itself, cute and shy and all.  Now it looks like a flat 2D silver blob with an enormous head and chest that's just perched there like some defunct statue.

 

Sorry, but I really don't like them that much. To bright, blurred lines, coils are gone, [..]

 

Basically, they are too glossed-over, the details are not as obvious, and they aren't as coil-y as before.

 

I used to like them to the point of wanting to collect them, not being able to only because they were stubborn breeders. Now, i feel the amount I have is enough, and won't be searching out the CB female silver that had been my wish with the old sprites.

 

Also, I really loved the eyes of the old two-headeds. The new ones give me the feel of a more uppity and mean dragon, whereas the old one I could see it as mean or friendly, whichever I felt like. And the chest now feels too big for the head, or perhaps the neck feels too short.

 

I'm not sure how to put this, and people probably won't get what I mean, but this is the vibe I'm getting from the sprite updates in general: as if before, there was a large selection of varied dragons, with different textures, feels and overall appearance. And now, there is one sleek glossy 'perfect' dragon that everyone's seen, and now they're trying to make all the other dragons as similar to that one as possible, while still retaining some of the anatomy of the original. The only sprite update so far that I've been happy with is the horse. That was still retaining the horse-ness of the sprite. The holly wasn't too bad I guess, though I love the postcard look of the old one. Most of the others have been making the dragons sleeker and less unique.

 

I hope I don't offend anyone, if I do, I'm very sorry, I didn't mean to. I'm really grateful to the spriters for some wonderful sprites, I just feel that I don't like the direction in which all these updates are going.

 

I think this just about covers what I wanted to say. I may add more later.

[Denwayasha]

Oh goodness, they're both lovely! Thank you spriters!

 

It's so much easier now to make out the details on the Splits (for the longest time I thought the placement of their forked tail looked like it was part of their arm until I finally realized it was in fact their tail) and they look a lot less "cartoonish" and more "I will not hesitate to eat you, puny human". Anyone else think these new ones would look nice with Black Tea dragons if they were breeding compatible? :3 Only nitpick I have is is the female S2's "far" head supposed to be so dark (perhaps shadowed is a better term?)? o_O

 

As for the Silvers they look wonderful (and so shiny!) while still keeping the spirit of the old sprites. I was going to breed one of my Mistletoes with a Green Nebula or Striped River this Christmas, but now I'm tempted to change it to my lone CB male Silver. <3 I don't normally do rare x holiday lines because I want the ones that are auto-AP'ed to be easily continuable for whoever ends up with them but oh man that'd be pretty~

 

I was kind of hoping that the Albinos would be included in an update so their poor necks could finally relax..

[NotBambi]

I was kinda hoping they'd get left alone after Lunars came out. Lunars are stunning. So seemed kinda pointless to change silvers when we've got a lovely silver metallic now.

 

I also likes Opal's sprites as far as the tweaked sprites, I thought the mane was clearer. I think the softer style was more suited for LadyLyzars reworked sprites that were larger and had room to showcase it. If they'd gone the total rework route, I thought those would have been best.

After going back to the Spriting thread (https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=150133&st=0), I remember which one set I really liked and wish had been chosen: LadyLyzar's under Overhaul Sprites.

But, if they had been chosen, we would have a bunch of people upset about different poses etc. Artists can't win.

 

Edited December 4, 2015 by NotBambi

[Odeen]

I'm not particularly certain how helpful it is to constantly rummage through that extremely old thread talking about coulda shoulda woulda =P

[stardust13]

I'm a big fan of the new silvers and I'd really love to see them be a bit bigger in lineage view -- the soft colors get a bit washed out without a strong outline. I don't know if adding an outline is the best solution but certainly zooming in a bit on their lineage view would help.

Something. I'd really like to see something done to alleviate the blur in lineage views, because that might just clear up a lot of issues for us unhappy breeders.

 

So the question is, are further edits a possibility, or are the Silvers just "done done" and we have to live with it this way?

 

Also, I was glad to see the the Silver credits updated. Someone said something last night that made me think the updating artists would not be listed.

Edited December 4, 2015 by stardust13

[cyradis4]

Something. I'd really like to see <i>something</i> done to alleviate the blur in lineage views, because that might just clear up a lot of issues for us unhappy breeders.

 

So the question is, are further edits a possibility, or are the Silvers just "done done" and we have to live with it this way?

 

Also, I was glad to see the the Silver credits updated. Someone said something last night that made me think the updating artists would not be listed.

Historically, TJ has made changes to the lineage tile and tweaked sprites when they were first released, so I'd say its very likely he'll be willing to make adjustments to the new Silvers.

 

Remember the first edition of the Nilia female, and her neck? Corteo asked it to be modified and TJ did so. Other species have had their tiles tweaked, too.

 

I do think shifting the male Silver's tile, making him bigger and cutting off part of the tail would help a lot. He looks SUPER tiny compared to most of the sprites.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[rayden54]

I definitively do not care for the new art style. I prefer them to actually look like pixel-based creations.

[dragontamer44722]

I do agree the lineage view is blurry, if something could be done to fix that I think it would make a good number of people happy. Maybe zoom in on it a tad more?

[DragonNighthowler]

Today I woke up, showered, checked my phone and read that my foster dog who was leaving tomorrow will have to travel on Saturday because his adopters had a problem with the van. I was a bit annoyed because this completely messes up my plans for the weekend. Don't get me wrong, he's a great boy, but I need to clean everything that's his and get them ready for the next dog, a belgium shepherd malinois, and I only have the weeked to do this.

 

I then took the dogs for a walk, prepared them to leave, decided to take my boy with me and got into the car to drive to my mother's home, where I eat before going to work. Before starting to eat I checked DC and saw the new sprites. The male looked gorgeous. The female, not so much, but as I had never liked the female before I didn't really mind it very much. Read a few comments, saw people unhappy, commented the sprites with a friend and then got ready to have lunch.

 

Boyfriend sent me a message to check my bank movements as, for some reason, he got an e-mail from electricity company telling him that we were due a few payments and will have light cut off. In half an hour I had to rush to work, I didn't know how I could make it. Called the company immediately and, after a tedious long wait managed to talk with them. The person who attended the call was, to put it bluntly, a badly mannered individual. She told me we were overdue 6 payments, which practically means the whole friggin year. I asked her why as we had set up a direct debit with the bank. She told me as we didn't pay one receipt in time (which is true, our mistake for not checking the bank account, yet this was solver in a single day) the direct debit had been cancelled. I asked her why I hadn't been informed about this. To summarize everything, she told me it was the bank's fault (I'm still wondering why the bank should be aware of the reasons the company decided to cancel this service), my fault for not asking every month if the bank was paying (even though I checked my receipts and everything seemed in order), and I guess Obama's fault too for some reason. I tried to reason with her, she started cutting me off, not letting me talk and eventually I had to yell at her to get her to shut up. Finally I could ask her why I was not informed of this choice, as I had been calmly doing nothing thinking everything was in order, and I never got an answer. We had to pay the 700 euros we were due and now I'm looking for a new electricity company.

 

Went to work, had an argument with my boyfriend over this electricity matter, picked up my dog and drove home. It's a 40 minutes drive through heavy traffic, so not the most enjoyable thing. When I got home I went to the living room and, as I do every day, I said hello to my little girl's urn, which is in the living room next to a frame with a picture of her. She was three.

 

Picked a drink, changed my clothes, got back into the internet and decided to play with my virtual dragons. I see people still distressed over the change, and I look them up more closely on the big screen. They have changed, sure, but they look fine to me. DC has always been an escapism for me, a simple enough game to allow me to have a good time. I have kicked myself over missing the marrows during Halloween, but then I thought of strategies to get the sprites as soon as they could breed true.

 

Things have changed so much in six, almost seven years I have been playing DC. We got biomes, a whole bunch of new dragons, we lost the old pinks and the frills, got prized dragons, teleport which opened a whole bunch of opportunities and I don't know what else. Every addition has changed the way we play, has caused distress and yet, after a long day like this one I can't wait to get home and play with my virtual dragons, because on the whole the games gives me much more satisfactions than frustrations.

 

One day, maybe, I'll get that male and female CB gold and then... I'll be capable of gifting gold and the Breeding and Gifting thread.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to explain what an incredibly long day I had, and how this sprite overhaul was a small, a little bright point in a terribly long, stressful day that almost put me through an anxiety attack (and no kidding on that one, I was hyperventilating as I drove home).

 

So, thank you spriters, thank you TJ. I might not agree with all choices, I might not like all changes, I might think there are things that could change for the better (ehem, rarity ), but sitting down with my notebook and working on my breeding projects, or checking Breeding and Gifting to see who I can help is all I need from the game. It gives me more bright days than frustrations.

[Ribombee]

I 100% agree with the sentiment that the male sprite could use a positioning change in the lineage view. It's definitely too zoomed out to give a proper view of LadyLyzar's artwork! That's really the big issue I have with the male as far as lineages go. It looks funky in some lineages because it's now so much smaller than the other breed and looks so blurry! The actual sprite isn't blurry or small.

[Lurhstaap]

Yay they actually looking silver now! Also adore the new two heads.

[dragondoodle]

I was so delighted to see the changes to the two-toned dragon! I was hoping that one would get an upgrade, I especially love the new look for the hatchlings and the adult wings

 

As for the silvers . . . AWESOME! Being fairly new to DC (started last year around Christmas) it has taken a long time to find the rares. When I finally got my first silver (not CB but I was happy nonetheless) my reaction was "That's grey . . . not silver" then I shrugged and continued hunting.

 

In my humble opinion the silvers now look genuinely silver . . . and I especially love the fur poofs on their tails! They looks so soft and pet-able now, I can't stop looking at them.

 

Thank you Spriters, for all your awesome work on these! My admiration for anyone who can do pixel art and make it look so fantastic is beyond measure.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

After taking an hour's break to play video games and let my brain cool down a bit, I think that, while I still would've preferred a different sprite be used, I could live with these ones if they aren't so brilliantly bright / washed out looking--like, if they had ever so slightly duller colors and more, well, sprite-y outlines on them. Mmm, to put it in better words, the silver lunar heralds--by the same spriter, too--are almost the same bright color, but still have very clearly defined outlines and look like sprites. The new ones don't look like sprites as much at a quick glance. I think it's that almost undefined quality + the super bright new color that have so altered the look of them compared to the old silvers for me, and why my silver lineages (esp. the male silver lineages) now look so bad in my eyes compared to how they were before.

[Lurhstaap]

Just wanted to add a bit, since other people have said really well what I feel:

 

 

 

 

Basically, they are too glossed-over, the details are not as obvious, and they aren't as coil-y as before.

 

I used to like them to the point of wanting to collect them, not being able to only because they were stubborn breeders. Now, i feel the amount I have is enough, and won't be searching out the CB female silver that had been my wish with the old sprites.

 

Also, I really loved the eyes of the old two-headeds. The new ones give me the feel of a more uppity and mean dragon, whereas the old one I could see it as mean or friendly, whichever I felt like. And the chest now feels too big for the head, or perhaps the neck feels too short.

 

I'm not sure how to put this, and people probably won't get what I mean, but this is the vibe I'm getting from the sprite updates in general: as if before, there was a large selection of varied dragons, with different textures, feels and overall appearance. And now, there is one sleek glossy 'perfect' dragon that everyone's seen, and now they're trying to make all the other dragons as similar to that one as possible, while still retaining some of the anatomy of the original. The only sprite update so far that I've been happy with is the horse. That was still retaining the horse-ness of the sprite. The holly wasn't too bad I guess, though I love the postcard look of the old one. Most of the others have been making the dragons sleeker and less unique.

 

I hope I don't offend anyone, if I do, I'm very sorry, I didn't mean to. I'm really grateful to the spriters for some wonderful sprites, I just feel that I don't like the direction in which all these updates are going.

 

I think this just about covers what I wanted to say. I may add more later.

Sites like DC usually try to keep art style consistent. Making the site's art styles more uniform makes the site look better and more professional. There is a big difference between a design element and a style of rendering art. The uniqueness of a species is in its design, not its art style. It doesn't become more or less unique of a dragon design depending on how it is drawn, assuming its design remains the same. It sucks that some will miss the various styles, but it is a wise move on DC's part. Honestly, it shouldn't have been so varied to begin with unless TJ was specifically intending for that to be a site feature. Since he's trying to change it, we can assume not.

[cippisweetForForums]

HELP

 

the silvers are stunning

[whitestar]

 

I do also agree with the person who wondered why looking slimmer meant the dragon no longer looked male. There are plenty of examples in real life of animals in which the female is the bulkier or both sexes are equally slender and refined. In no way am I saying that people aren't allowed to dislike the male sprite, but there's no biological reason the male should not be as or more refined than the female.

 

I'm one person that mentioned the male looked more feminine and I stand by that because, the original silver male did not. The original male was bulkier in shape of head, neck and chest. There was also a more 'predatory' look to it. Whereas now, it's softer in appearance and very similar to the female...only in blue. It's lost the touch of masculine that it once had and has now been feminized.

 

I never said dragons needed to stick to human expectations of gender ideas, but to change a design from a masculine look to such an extent so it now looks feminine, I think the design lost a lot. I do think the female silver, although a bit bright, is pretty. I can see using that in lineages. It's the male version I don't care for.

Edited December 4, 2015 by whitestar

[Dryadia]

Wow! They look great!

Nice improvement!

Thanks TJ and spriters!

[Labyrinthian]

 

Love love love!

 

The splits, too, are absolutely amazing. Was not interested in collecting them before, but I think now I will have to

[_InBetweenTheLines_]

Beautiful! I need to get a silver now, their new sprites look so gorgeous

[Labyrinthian]

I'm one person that mentioned the male looked more feminine and I stand by that because, the original silver male did not. The original male was bulkier in shape of head and chest. There was also a more 'predatory' look to it. Whereas now, it's softer in appearance and very similar to the female...only in blue. It's lost the touch of masculine that it once had and has now been feminized.

 

I never said dragons needed to stick to human expectations of gender ideas, but to change a design from a masculine look to such an extent so it now looks feminine, I think the design lost a lot. I do think the female silver, although a bit bright, is pretty. I can see using that in lineages. It's the male version I don't care for.

I'm not sure how you can say that the male was originally bulkier; you can't see how bulky or not bulky the female chest is in the original sprite or the male sprite. There was a distinct difference in the jawline, yes, as the male's seemed to be more defined, but other than that, I'll have to disagree with your observation.