Solstice Sprites

[angelicdragonpuppy]

As for the issue some people have with "exclusives", I really just see it as an incentive to play on the site. If I never had to worry about missing out on something, I wouldn't play/check in on the site as often. It adds an element of excitement. I know I'll never have an Old Pink or Frill, unless I win a raffle, but I'm fine with that. It's what distinguishes those who've been on here at certain times. Same with the badges/trophies. It shouldn't be a matter of hurt feelings, it's just a way to add depth to the game.

I'm the other way around. There are certain sites I'll never join because they HAVE so many exclusives; why bother trying to collect everything if it simply isn't possible? And if you can't collect everything on a collecting oriented game, what's the point at all?

 

I do agree that there should be special things to keep people coming back--like Holiday releases, new releases in general, and other interesting events--I just dislike them being exclusive.

 

 

[silverstreak12]

well, that sucks then. i love both sprites, but there's something so magical about the red wings and if i can never get them, that's a real bummer.

 

i'll still be happy with my blue wings, but man i really wish i could have both, like so many other people

[tjekan]

I'd LOVE to be able to breed CB Solstices with the sunset hue with the bred Solstices because I think that that would make for some interesting lineages.but that's just me.

All solstices are female, so that one's probably not happening... :-)

[Guillotine]

There are currently no plans to re-release the old sprite. All non-CB Solstices will have blue wings, unless otherwise announced.

 

If you have feel strongly against that and have suggestions for changing things, there's a whole section of the forum where I'd be willing to entertain concrete ideas, and a little under a year to figure it out.

 

Honestly, though, a lot of this feels reminiscent of the 2009 Holiday Dragons. There was a similar level of complaint back then (though aggravated by the fact that I was an idiot/still in my teens) at the thought of there being sprites that not everyone could obtain; five years later we're still here and the world has not ended.

But five years later and people have still been calling for that to be changed--the Snow Angels as recently as this summer, IIRC (and I still hold that locking the sprites to scrolls was a bad idea), and I know that people have been arguing for bringing back retired breeds for ages as well.

 

Note that for the first you shot them down and the latter you've been evasive on. We have no reason to believe that posting about this in S/R will change anything given past history re: exclusives.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Guillotine

[TJ09]

We have no reason to believe that posting about this is S/R will change anything given past history re: exclusives.

Posting in the section dedicated to suggestions is infinitely more likely to have an impact than suggesting things in this thread.

[Fiona]

If you have feel strongly against that and have suggestions for changing things, there's a whole section of the forum where I'd be willing to entertain concrete ideas, and a little under a year to figure it out.

This actually seems like a good idea. If we have concrete ideas for changing this I think we should make a suggestion for that, with specific ideas of changing it.

 

I don't want to be disrespectful of Odeen's concept for her dragon. I love the sprites, but find myself preferring the original enough to put some thought into it. I'd like to run the suggestion thread for this discussion, but don't have time to fill in the whole suggestion right now. If people can hold off on making the thread for a few hours I'll come up with something concrete after our Christmas party.

[JavaTigress]

I have a question for TJ...

 

What IF a person won HM in the raffle and asked for a CB Solstice?

 

Would it have the 'rosy' wings? OR the Blue ones?

Edited December 24, 2014 by Silverswift

[Ytak]

Honestly, though, a lot of this feels reminiscent of the 2009 Holiday Dragons. There was a similar level of complaint back then (though aggravated by the fact that I was an idiot/still in my teens) at the thought of there being sprites that not everyone could obtain; five years later we're still here and the world has not ended.

I remember that drama llama. If I start to get blagh, I just remind myself that its a game and if I'm not having fun, I can quit playing. No one is making me play.

 

That being said, I do enjoying playing because I'm playing a way I like. Yeah, I can't get certain dragons I missed because I wasn't playing then (or didn't know about limited release dragons) but it isn't worth getting truly upset over. There are more important things in life to get upset or worry over.

Edited December 24, 2014 by ytak

[spatio]

I'm the other way around. There are certain sites I'll never join because they HAVE so many exclusives; why bother trying to collect everything if it simply isn't possible? And if you can't collect everything on a collecting oriented game, what's the point at all?

 

I do agree that there should be special things to keep people coming back--like Holiday releases, new releases in general, and other interesting events--I just dislike them being exclusive.

I do agree that a large number of exclusives on a collection-oriented game is unreasonable and discourages new members, but if everyone could get everything, it seems (in my opinion) that the game loses some of its value and becomes just a matter of who has more time to spend on it (ie younger players who don't have to work/travel ).

 

And really, with all the breeds, rarity, trading, lineages, etc that are possible in this game, a grand total of ~5 exclusives (pink, frill, alt sweetling, alt snow angels, alt solstice)(sorry if I missed something) don't really seem excessive/like a big deal to me.

 

I would suggest following TJ's advice and creating a thread focused on creating a solid and workable way to get the alternate sprite. I fully support adding flexibility to this issue; compromise will make the most people happy!

[Lurhstaap]

The thing is exclusiveness happens. It is unavoidable. That aside though I understand not everyone wants them removed. Which is why I stated only those who want one or two or all their blue winged babies changed can. Otherwise eithe ra BSA to change them from blue to sunsetty or alternating sunset/blue wing releases every other year.

 

I'm not entirely saying "Suck it up." But.... if it is a permanent change and no plan is made to offer the CB version to those without it then, I'm sorry... but Oh well. It's TJ's game and if he wants to make certain breeds exclusive despite some disagreement he has every right to. If you don't like it  but like the game then that is unfortunate and there is really nothing that can be done. Sadly if TJ does not want to or does not feel like changing it, he is not obligated to. You can cry to your local channel news but it does not mean his decision will change.

 

I do not agree with some decision but seeing as I do not invest in the site directly, nor do I own it, The best I can do is suggest a change. If it is shot down or not changed, then the best I can do is roll with it.

Yes, it's TJ's right to do such a thing. However it is also our right to voice our disagreement with the decision. Such things have happened many times in the past and have often resulted in TJ changing his mind or making alterations to the game because of the will of the player base. It's TJ's game, yes - but if he wants anyone besides himself to play it he has to pay at least SOME attention to the desires of his players.

 

Also, I completely, 100% disagree with your first two sentences. Exclusiveness doesn't just "happen" nor is it at ALL unavoidable. It is 100% under the control of TJ. He can make it so that no sprite is exclusive if he wanted to. And again I don't object to exclusiveness per se; I know that some do, but I think most people can agree that the major problem with the bluewings isn't that they make the sunset wings exclusive, it's that the change was made with zero warning.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Lurhstaap

[TCA]

I made a suggestion for one possible fix.

[Xythus]

I like both, kinda wished that descendants also had the nice rosy ripple wings, but if that was Odeen's intention all along, I respect that

 

Then again, I didn't pick up any solstices this year, so it doesn't affect me.

[Auriene]

There are currently no plans to re-release the old sprite. All non-CB Solstices will have blue wings, unless otherwise announced.

 

If you have feel strongly against that and have suggestions for changing things, there's a whole section of the forum where I'd be willing to entertain concrete ideas, and a little under a year to figure it out.

 

Honestly, though, a lot of this feels reminiscent of the 2009 Holiday Dragons. There was a similar level of complaint back then (though aggravated by the fact that I was an idiot/still in my teens) at the thought of there being sprites that not everyone could obtain; five years later we're still here and the world has not ended.

I have to ask about that... What are the reasons for this decision? I think that people should be able to make better suggestions knowing your point of view - and knowing why this change of sprites had to be made in the first place.

[Lurhstaap]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your perspective here... This may be a different choice than perhaps you would have made, but I don't think it is right to suggest that en mass this was a bad player relations choice! Each person has their own perspective, just like some people don't like inbred lineages - while others don't care at all about lineages - only the sprite on their scroll. Just because it wasn't expected doesn't make it bad - just different. Perhaps we could turn the negative energy into a positive - maybe a more challenging lineage - for example. It is almost Christmas, after all!

The sheer amount of player negative reaction proves my point. It's not merely that *I* wouldn't have done it; it's that I can't imagine why ANYONE would have except that they didn't think it through enough. It seems to me that any experienced game designer would think out the reaction of their player base and take it into account when doing something. If he did and decided that he didn't give a damn what people thought, that's his right, yes, but that being his right does NOT make it a good or wise idea. If this many people are upset by it then by definition it was a poor player relations choice. The fact that people have differing preferences really doesn't affect the basic principle of player communication and input. In fact it makes it all the more important, because it means that the owner needs to figure out what the -majority- opinion is, rather than just what s/he and his/her friends on the site think.

 

I'm glad you feel that unexpected != bad. Others disagree, myself included. And honestly your reaction appears to be the minority. So should people like you get your way and people like me just shut up? How fair is that? How "Christmassy" is it to say that those of us who don't like this should just shut up and smile and pretend it's all okay just so that those of you who are okay with it can be more comfortable?

[Oddsoxdi]

I prefer the sunsetty tones too, I kinda sorta was breeding Nhios with the Solstices because of the pinky-purply tones.

[Ponystar17]

The sheer amount of player negative reaction proves my point. It's not merely that *I* wouldn't have done it; it's that I can't imagine why ANYONE would have except that they didn't think it through enough. It seems to me that any experienced game designer would think out the reaction of their player base and take it into account when doing something. If he did and decided that he didn't give a damn what people thought, that's his right, yes, but that being his right does NOT make it a good or wise idea. If this many people are upset by it then by definition it was a poor player relations choice. The fact that people have differing preferences really doesn't affect the basic principle of player communication and input. In fact it makes it all the more important, because it means that the owner needs to figure out what the -majority- opinion is, rather than just what s/he and his/her friends on the site think.

 

I'm glad you feel that unexpected != bad. Others disagree, myself included. And honestly your reaction appears to be the minority. So should people like you get your way and people like me just shut up? How fair is that? How "Christmassy" is it to say that those of us who don't like this should just shut up and smile and pretend it's all okay just so that those of you who are okay with it can be more comfortable?

From what I can gather from what was posted earlier, this the lack of announcement of Odeen, Jazi, and TJ's plans wasn't a decision by TJ or either of the spriters, it was a miscommunication. I do feel that a lot of hurt feelings would be soothed if he came out and apologized publically and decisively about it, but ultimately I don't think it's fair to blame him for something which was ultimately an accident. That's just my opinion, though. And I do sympathize with those who object to the exclusive sprites - I've always hated the idea of not being able to collect every sprite on DC, although these are hardly the only dragon which bothers me in that respect (BPs, Frills, Alt Sweetlings, and so on).

 

In response to your second paragraph, I don't think your interpretation of LadyAmlaruil2's post is what she meant - my interpretation would be that while it's okay to be upset and criticise mistakes, it (probably) won't make anyone any happier if you force yourself to continue to be angry over it when you've said what there is to say. I could be wrong.

 

One last thing in response to the third sentence in your second paragraph: I believe you're generalizing too much. It's mainly the people who were hurt by the changes who post here, and I don't think you can fairly and accurately claim that you're in the majority. Many people who play DC either don't go on the forums or simply won't have bothered to post in this thread because they believe that their opinion ("I'm okay with this") has already been stated by others. EDIT: I may have accidentally implied that everyone who hasn't posted in this thread is okay with the colour change. That was not my intent, and I apologize - my point is that this thread isn't an accurate source of overall DC statistics.

 

PS: I do like the pink wings better, but the blue ones are pretty too IMO.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Ponystar17

[angelicdragonpuppy]

From what I can gather from what was posted earlier, this wasn't a decision by TJ or either of the spriters, it was a miscommunication.  I do feel that a lot of hurt feelings would be soothed if he came out and apologized publically and decisively about it, but ultimately I don't think it's fair to blame him for something which was ultimately an accident.  That's just my opinion, though.

It wasn't an accident--both TJ and Odeen said they've discussed this for close to a year and have planned it to be this way from the start. The only miscommunication was TJ thinking Odeen had already explained what was going on when she hadn't.

 

The original Solstice Dragon had blue wings. That was how I envisioned the breed, and the sunrise wings were only added very late in the design process on a whim and originally intended only to appear on the spriter alts. Jaz and I decided to submit both the colored and blue versions to TJ to decide which of them he wanted to release because I liked both equally; he liked both, too, so we came up with a way for both to be used.

 

I thought Odie had already commented on the matter, which wouldn't really leave much for me to add.

 

But yes, this is on purpose (and has always been the intention since they were made).

 

There are currently no plans to re-release the old sprite. All non-CB Solstices will have blue wings, unless otherwise announced.

Edited December 24, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Nerei]

I was a little upset because we weren't told about the new Solstices. It was actually a bit disappointing, to have been looking foreword to something and receiving something else. All in all, it seems like a lot of trouble has come from something rather pointless.

[Mystic_Solara]

LOL I hope TJ and the spriters learn that these kinds of surprises are not actually... well taken inside the community. Maybe next time we'll get a warning.

[Ponystar17]

It wasn't an accident--both TJ and Odeen said they've discussed this for close to a year and have planned it to be this way from the start. The only miscommunication was TJ thinking Odeen had already explained what was going on when she hadn't.

 

 

 

There are currently no plans to re-release the old sprite. All non-CB Solstices will have blue wings, unless otherwise announced.

My bad - I assumed that a lot of the displeasure was over the circumstances of the announcement (I've seen TJ's communication fail expressed in quite negative terms, which is most of what bothers me). I was aware that the decision was intentional, but my post was poorly-worded. Editing post to reflect that - thank you for bringing up the point, and I do agree with you (and many others) about exclusive sprites (spriters' alts excluded) not being much fun. Heck, I don't even like the alt Sweetlings, and I understand that they were compensation for a site glitch.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Ponystar17

[lilysally]

I don't care about miscommunication or anything. I like both colorings, I will have both colorings on my scroll as I have two CBs. As I preferred Pairing them with blueish Color Dragons, it's perfectly fine with me.

 

I'm always surprised at the outcry whenever something changes. It happens in real life all the time, so why this aggravation?

[MedievalMystic]

LOL I hope TJ and the spriters learn that these kinds of surprises are not actually... well taken inside the community.

 

Well...some of the community.

 

 

[XDLugia]

I'm always surprised at the outcry whenever something changes. It happens in real life all the time, so why this aggravation?

Some users want a warning to new things like this so it doesn't mess up their breeding/catching/what-have-you plans. When it comes to a dragon that can only be caught and bred once a year, being sprung a surprise is well ... surprising.

 

Personally, it doesn't bother me. Breeding plans sort of happen on a whim for me.

[pinkgothic]

I'm always surprised at the outcry whenever something changes. It happens in real life all the time, so why this aggravation?

Personally, I love this change. But I also understand why it's causing frustration. A game doesn't necessarily have to mirror the shortfalls of real life. Many people play games to get away from various attributes of real life - and in this case, a lot of people were looking forward to lineages they've planned for up to a year now. (I didn't have any plans, so I'm not affected; but I just imagine my pleasant surprise in its opposite form and then the frustration makes perfect sense.)

[djengis]

For all those complaining About perfect checkers and what not, i Will gladly accept all those 2nd gen Spriters Alts you picked up, since its not possible to make perfect checkers with m anymore *runs and hides*

 

No seriously...if i was the Spriter of this i would get so fed up, I'd give all the CB the blue wings too and be done with it...

 

Merry Christmas Everyone!!