Solstice Sprites

[Guillotine]

Can you prove deceit? Do you have some power that allows you to read Odeen or TJ's minds, that makes you so certain that they sat there plotting this out as a way to ruin your 2014 holiday breeding/catching experience?

 

Have you even stopped for a second to consider that this was a simple case of miscommunication between the spriter and admin? TJ clearly stated that he thought we had been given the information. It's no stretch of the imagination to think Odeen was under the same assumption. It's more likely a oversight. Just because people discussed their breeding plans, that doesn't mean either one of these people frequented those threads and had any idea that we didn't know they didn't breed true.

 

There are always changes that derail enjoyment. Sprite updates have killed my enjoyment of quite a few dragons. You work around such things and move on.

Intentional deceit? Sure: they both thought that not giving us the full facts when they were released was a good plan. It may not have been malicious, but it certainly was deceitful and crass to do when we wouldn't otherwise find out for an entire year.

 

And this is nothing like sprite updates. Sprite updates didn't keep the old ones around as an additional kick in the teeth to people who planned around it.

[tjekan]

No one's dissing the spriters. It's still a beautiful sprite, and personally I consider the blue-winged variant just as lovely as the rose-tinged ones.

 

But it was a mean trick to sit on this for a year, watching people eagerly plan checker lineages that it was known from the start would always be impossible, letting people breed eggs and raise hatchlings to match the original sprite, and then suddenly pull an April Fools on them when the hatchlings matured and it was too late to do anything about it.

 

The sprites would also be just as beautiful if it was suddenly revealed this week that solstices were the only holiday breed unable to breed true and could only produce non-holiday offspring. We would all live, just as we're doing with this sprite change. But it still would not have been a particularly nice surprise, and neither is this.

[Nerei]

Okay okay, so how about this: Bluewings can be caught from Solstice eggs laid before the winter solstice (December 21st), and redwings can be caught from eggs laid after the solstice?

[Jocosa]

 

The Solstice has always been my fave, it's just so striking and gorgeous. A mix of warm and cool, a perfect mix for the season. The new version is still a striking dragon, and still my fave, design wise but I am sad to see the color change in the bred ones. They've lost their warmth and contrast.

 

It will definitely change my lineage projects for them. I was planning eg checkers with my Pyralspite dragons, to play up those stunning sunset hues. Time to draw up new plans.

 

I do like the suggestion of a BSA to help influence the possible color outcome in bred ones.

 

That being said, I think both versions are so beautiful, and well done, I just like the original a bit more.

[nextavengers]

They've lost their warmth and contrast.

That they have...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Using words with negative connotations like "crass," or assuming that the purpose is to disappoint or deceive are rude. All of these wordings assume some form of malicious intent. On the contrary, few of the comments are simply voicing frustration in a manner which I would not consider offensive, as if insulting everyone behind the decision will somehow shame us into changing things.

 

But, such is the way of the internet; this is really par for the course as far as disagreeing with DC decisions goes.

Alright, TJ, since you seem to be checking in on the thread, I'll address you personally.

 

It's pretty obvious that you and the spriters weren't intending to upset everyone. However, I also feel this wasn't thought over very well. All the other discontinued sprites, or sprites that are unavailable in general, have upset people. Sometimes only a few people, sometimes quite a lot. To this day some discussions are still ongoing over things like CB Prizes and Old Pinks, despite them having been what they are for years, because it's such a big deal to some of us.

 

So when something like this is done yet again--despite the way such things have been received in the past--it's upsetting and makes it seem like opinions aren't listened to. Obviously you DO listen on lots of things (I'm very grateful for the new sorting methods, lifted holiday limits, and the possibility of frills coming back, for starters), but then things like this happen. Didn't the past suggest that removing the original sprites would make a lot of people who loved them upset and disappointed? Even more so when--unlike with many of the other exclusives--this was unprecedented and unannounced. ;___;

 

It's even more upsetting given that it seems this'd be an easy thing to implement with the best outcome for everybody. An announcement that they'd be alternating every year, a BSA that lets you pick which color an adult is, some type of breeding related mechanism that lets you control which you get... all these things would've let you and the spriters use both versions, and would've made it pretty hard for anyone to be disappointed about the outcome. Instead of a feeling of something being lost or a precious sprite being replaced, it'd be "Yay, EXTRA SOLSTICES!" and good feelings all around.

 

It's your site and you'll do what you want, of course, and I know you've thought exclusives were a good thing in the past (snow angels... ;___; ), but I still ask you to reconsider. Me and others have said many times and for many reasons why we dislike exclusives. I think this exclusive is even worse than many others because it sets a pretty nasty precedent--that not only do we have to worry about exclusives, but we have to worry about unannounced ones now, and that what we collect one year might not be what we'll be seeing next year.

 

Again, all this is based on the assumption that pink wings are forever gone. If that is not the case, I implore you to tell us so. If they are coming back you probably feel annoyed that we've gone and made a coming surprise out to be a nasty thing, but please be forgiving; previous exclusives have never been jokes, so it's hard to sit comfortable and trust that it isn't the case here as well.

Edited December 24, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[indigo]

I love the all blue Solstice. So beautiful. I think it goes perfectly with the blizzard that is happening.

 

 

[TJ09]

I'm not taking back the statement that the way you went about this decision was crass and deceitful.

And you are free to so, insofar as the mods are willing to entertain your rudeness. (I'm not going to be moderating comments directed at me because I'm inherently biased in that situation, but that does not prevent other moderators from doing so.)

 

However, I should caution you that offending the very same people you are trying to convince of something is considered to be a failing strategem. This does not mean that one must suck up to get their way--that's equally obvious and equally bad--but just a helpful tip.

[Lunarsnow]

I actually like the blue wings better than the sunset ones. However I'm upset because I never managed to get a CB solstice so I can never get that sprite, seeing as my goal is to collect one of every sprite (so this just adds another sprite that I'll never be able to get). If I had known that the sunset wings were CB exclusive I would have tried harder to grab one last year. This one hurts more because it's not like the snow angels that were randomly determined but that I could've had one but figured I'd be able to catch a 2nd gen this year.

[Guillotine]

Pointing out that your method of introducing this was needlessly hurtful regardless of the intentions is hardly something that should offend you. If anything, I'm being very mild. I acknowledge that the choice wasn't made with malice... but you also don't need malice to hurt people. And you did hurt people, even if it wasn't a large hurt.

[TCA]

Alright, TJ, since you seem to be checking in on the thread, I'll address you personally.

 

It's pretty obvious that you and the spriters weren't intending to upset everyone. However, I also feel this wasn't thought over very well. All the other discontinued sprites, or sprites that are unavailable in general, have upset people. Sometimes only a few people, sometimes quite a lot. To this day some discussions are still ongoing over things like CB Prizes and Old Pinks, despite them having been what they are for years, because it's such a big deal to some of us.

 

So when something like this is done yet again--despite the way such things have been received in the past--it's upsetting and makes it seem like opinions aren't listened to. Obviously you DO listen on lots of things (I'm very grateful for the new sorting methods, lifted holiday limits, and the possibility of frills coming back, for starters), but then things like this happen. Didn't the past suggest that removing the original sprites would make a lot of people who loved them upset and disappointed? Even more so when--unlike with many of the other exclusives--this was unprecedented and unannounced. ;___;

 

It's also pretty disheartening when, in the midst of confusion and upset, your responses are limited to saying you thought someone else had relayed the news and that the user base can be rude at times. When a big corporation like facebook or tumblr makes a change that some users are unhappy with, staff don't step in to point out that protesting users are being unpleasant. They seek to clarify the issue at hand and soothe ruffled feathers, even if no change will actually be made. DC isn't as massive as those sites by a long shot, I know, nor tied up with so much money--but some more empathatic, related to the issue at hand responses from you would go a long way towards helping the matter. Right now, your answers leave me more wondering if you're really considering some of the issues people are having, or if you're just selectively listening. ;;

 

It's even more upsetting given that it seems this'd be an easy thing to implement with the best outcome for everybody. An announcement that they'd be alternating every year, a BSA that lets you pick which color an adult is, some type of breeding related mechanism that lets you control which you get... all these things would've let you and the spriters use both versions, and would've made it pretty hard for anyone to be disappointed about the outcome. Instead of a feeling of something being lost or a precious sprite being replaced, it'd be "Yay, EXTRA SOLSTICES!" and good feelings all around.

 

It's your site and you'll do what you want, of course, and I know you've thought exclusives were a good thing in the past (snow angels... ;___; ), but I still ask you to reconsider. Me and others have said many times and for many reasons why we dislike exclusives. I think this exclusive is even worse than many others because it sets a pretty nasty precedent--that not only do we have to worry about exclusives, but we have to worry about unannounced ones now, and that what we collect one year might not be what we'll be seeing next year.

 

Again, all this is based on the assumption that pink wings are forever gone. If that is not the case, I implore you to tell us so. If they are coming back you probably feel annoyed that we've gone and made a coming surprise out to be a nasty thing, but please be forgiving; previous exclusives have never been jokes, so it's hard to sit comfortable and trust that it isn't the case here as well.

This is pretty politely worded, and I agree with pretty much all of it. Communication is important if you want people to respect you and enjoy your game. I honestly don't even mind the idea of a breed's CB and bred dragons looking different, but not when it's a limited-edition breed where the CBs are only ever available once AND there is no indication this will be the case for an entire year.

[Paprika]

I'm really disappointed with some of the bratty/snotty attitudes being thrown about here. Its Christmas, act like it. Or just act like a decent person because its the right thing to do.

 

There is a right way to go about showing your disappointment and a wrong way, so far I see a lot of the wrong way.

 

A better way to put it would be something along the lines of "I really think this is pretty, but I am somewhat upset as I had certain lineages/plans for the original sprite and I don't think the way the new one is colored really fits in well with it. Perhaps allowing both versions to appear would be better so we all have a chance at the "correct"(desired) colorations".

 

 

All in all, I DO love the new sprites(Blue ftw!). I personally think it looks a little odd/clashy with how the babies are all blues now, and I would still like both to be available to people. However, it doesn't really affect me in the end as I don't do large breeding projects.

 

NGL I am sad I can't get a CB all blue version though.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

And you are free to so, insofar as the mods are willing to entertain your rudeness. (I'm not going to be moderating comments directed at me because I'm inherently biased in that situation, but that does not prevent other moderators from doing so.)

 

However, I should caution you that offending the very same people you are trying to convince of something is considered to be a failing strategem. This does not mean that one must suck up to get their way--that's equally obvious and equally bad--but just a helpful tip.

Please don't banish me for saying this, but...

 

It's a bit disheartening (and, I think, contributes to the perception of a lack of player / staff communication) when, in the midst of confusion and upset, your responses are limited to saying you thought someone else had relayed the news and that some of the user base is being rude. Can we please get some more clarification regarding whether pink wings will be obtainable again, and such...? ;;

[shanique]

A better way to put it would be something along the lines of "I really think this is pretty, but I am somewhat upset as I had certain lineages/plans for the original sprite and I don't think the way the new one is colored really fits in well with it. Perhaps allowing both versions to appear would be better so we all have a chance at the "correct"(desired) colorations".

*shrugs*

 

What really got me into liking solstices was the 'heartwarming' feel of the dragon.

 

The new blue just seems so... cold.

[beautifuldragon5000]

I'm really disappointed with some of the bratty/snotty attitudes being thrown about here. Its Christmas, act like it. Or just act like a decent person because its the right thing to do.

 

There is a right way to go about showing your disappointment and a wrong way, so far I see a lot of the wrong way.

I actually tend to agree with this, none of us have to agree with this decision. but tossing around this hatred and entitlement adtitude of " Oh I am a member, for 6 months I should get everything that the older members have." Is a pompus and arrogant adtitude that is against everything I believe. Now, I know very well that not everyone is going to be pleased collectively by every decision but acting like a spoiled brat doesn't help the situation get better or get solved.

[tjekan]

This is pretty politely worded, and I agree with pretty much all of it. Communication is important if you want people to respect you and enjoy your game. I honestly don't even mind the idea of a breed's CB and bred dragons looking different, but not when it's a limited-edition breed where the CBs are only ever available once AND there is no indication this will be the case for an entire year.

That's about where I am. Now that I know it's impossible to make checker lineages with solstices, I either won't try or I'll fool around with semi-checker even-gens, like I do with sprites. Not everything in the game can be bred into the kind of lineages I wish they could (alas for those pretty Glaucus Drakes that cannot interbreed with so many awesome things), and that's just fine... because I *know* about it. It's a bummer to have gone around for a whole year with no indication that we weren't going to be able to breed these true during the one week all year the other holiday breeds can do that. This would have been the perfect kind of thing to alert us to in a PSA, a fact on the encyclopedia, or even a footnote on the Happy Holidays forum post would have been better late than never. Maybe next time...

[Spyridon]

This is pretty politely worded, and I agree with pretty much all of it. Communication is important if you want people to respect you and enjoy your game. I honestly don't even mind the idea of a breed's CB and bred dragons looking different, but not when it's a limited-edition breed where the CBs are only ever available once AND there is no indication this will be the case for an entire year.

I have to agree with you considering the length of the post. I personally would have trouble with being that polite in a 2-3 sentences.

 

I'm just curious as to what the final plan is?

 

Are Sunset/Sunrise dragons going to be updated to include a BSA in the future (timeline can be kept secret)?

 

Or are the sprites going to be rotated?

 

It would be cool to have 1 CB turned Blush and the other Pure blue and then start breeding true. To those that have the one CB can be given the opportunity to have either one.

 

Angelicdragonpuppy, I am in awe of your writing.

[BlindWolf]

I actually tend to agree with this, none of us have to agree with this decision. but tossing around this hatred and entitlement adtitude of " Oh I am a member, for 6 months I should get everything that the older members have." Is a pompus and arrogant adtitude that is against everything I believe. Now, I know very well that not everyone is going to be pleased collectively by every decision but acting like a spoiled brat doesn't help the situation get better or get solved.

Doesn't this ignore that a good half of the people who have a problem with this do in fact have CB Solstices? I also don't think it's a good attitude to take to call everyone pointing out a problem they have with something a 'spoiled brat', or dismissing the feelings of the new people who are hurt the most by this.

[spatio]

I do agree with those asking for polite discussion. Hurt feelings and accusations really should be put aside until we know what's actually going on.

 

Although I personally like the pink sprites better, I really have no complaint with this. Both sprites are incredibly lovely (and way better than anything I could ever hope to make! ) and it should be up to the artist what is done with their artwork.

 

As for the issue some people have with "exclusives", I really just see it as an incentive to play on the site. If I never had to worry about missing out on something, I wouldn't play/check in on the site as often. It adds an element of excitement. I know I'll never have an Old Pink or Frill, unless I win a raffle, but I'm fine with that. It's what distinguishes those who've been on here at certain times. Same with the badges/trophies. It shouldn't be a matter of hurt feelings, it's just a way to add depth to the game.

 

Happy holidays!

[beautifuldragon5000]

Doesn't this ignore that a good half of the people who have a problem with this do in fact have CB Solstices? I also don't think it's a good attitude to take to call everyone pointing out a problem they have with something a 'spoiled brat', or dismissing the feelings of the new people who are hurt the most by this.

but at the same time you have a double standard because you act like its right to call TJ and the spriter who worked so diligently on this concept out and act like they are monsters just because it wasn't announced to the general populace that this change was being made.

[MessengerDragon]

I think it's quite possible that tomorrow, with the solstice chapter appearing, we will probably find out what's happening. Personally, I hope that both versions will be available, and that the colour will be dictated either by year, or by whether the solstice was before or after. I wouldn't like it being random, since people wouldn't be able to trade miscoloured ones.

[Spyridon]

I think it's quite possible that tomorrow, with the solstice chapter appearing, we will probably find out what's happening. Personally, I hope that both versions will be available, and that the colour will be dictated either by year, or by whether the solstice was before or after. I wouldn't like it being random, since people wouldn't be able to trade miscoloured ones.

Yeah I heard someone suggested the solstice chapter might be tied into this. I wish it was here already.

[BlindWolf]

but at the same time you have a double standard because you act like its right to call TJ and the spriter who worked so diligently on this concept out and act like they are monsters just because it wasn't announced to the general populace that this change was being made.

Very few people have attacked TJ, even less have attacked Odeen, and nobody has called them monsters. Nobody has questioned their hard work or the quality of the sprites at all. I understand that you think they're being targeted here, but it's also not a good idea to malign the people who have a problem with this. It's doing what you're claiming others are.

[TJ09]

There are currently no plans to re-release the old sprite. All non-CB Solstices will have blue wings, unless otherwise announced.

 

If you have feel strongly against that and have suggestions for changing things, there's a whole section of the forum where I'd be willing to entertain concrete ideas, and a little under a year to figure it out.

 

Honestly, though, a lot of this feels reminiscent of the 2009 Holiday Dragons. There was a similar level of complaint back then (though aggravated by the fact that I was an idiot/still in my teens) at the thought of there being sprites that not everyone could obtain; five years later we're still here and the world has not ended.

[Shin'a'in]

I'd LOVE to be able to breed CB Solstices with the sunset hue with the bred Solstices because I think that that would make for some interesting lineages.but that's just me.