New release Feedback

[Irys]

The Drop: The drop worked fine here on the west coast. I missed the first few hours due to regular commitments (that I can not, and will not change for a hobby game).

 

Ratio: I didn't see a problem with eggs mixing in like I have in the past, but I stopped looking about 5 hours into the drop since I had reached my limit by then.

 

Speed: I felt like I was actually able to catch eggs faster this time, but that could be an illusion. I started a few hours late in the drop, but hit my max in another two hours even when using a sketchy wireless connection and an awkward laptop touch pad.

 

Notice: I can't comment on the short notice, because I happened to log onto the forums and saw the notification in advance.

 

Suggestions: A Saturday drop may be better so that others in the earlier time zones in Europe will still be in the weekend when the eggs start dropping.

 

On the short notice thing I, in TJs place, might consider one of the following for the future:

1) Ensure at least 1 week notice on a change in the drop.

2) If unable to have 1 week notice, then push the drop by a week or wait until the next release to implement it.

3) Remove announcements and have new releases be random again.

 

I might also consider if it's possible to either automate posts, so that I could set up an announcement to post at a certain time regardless of if I am available. If that's not possible, then I'd consider the ramifications of delegating that job to someone like a Mod.

 

I am hesitant to throw my hat into the 24 hour drop arena because I am not certain that it will benefit the cave as a whole considering how the common ratios have been skewed.

 

Overall, I don't have any strong opinions about the drop. It worked well for me, possibly better than the Midnight drop (9 pm Saturday for me).

[whitebaron]

Yes, MUCH better communication would have been nice - but as we all sit here slagging him off it behooves us all to ask ourselves - have we never made such a mistake ? The drop worked in the end. Different people missed it than usually do. But - it's over, and TJ has been listening and has posted.

• Various AP changes - no notification
• May release - notification at the release time, that it will be on DC Birthday instead.
• lineage view changes - no notification
• September Release - Change from first sunday to first sunday after the first saturday, 6 hours before the fact.
• October release - Notification as part of September, extra notification 2 hours before the fact, which would be to late for People who had not seen the other.
• November release - done in the last possible date to keep his word, no notification before.
• Egg shuffling in cave - no notification
• january release - no notification at all whether there would be one or not.
• April release - rescheduled 2 hours before the fact.

I think thats enough threads/events with negative feedback EVERY TIME to learn it:

 

Give Advance Notice.

Give Advance Notice.

Give Advance Notice.

 

And no, less than 2 days is not advance notice when that's the shortest time you can hatch dragons.

Edited April 8, 2014 by whitebaron

[HeatherMarie]

re 24-hour-pure-drop and why it may/may not be good.

 

I've seen it said that a pure-drop that long would really mess with the new-release's ratios, there is no "new release" ratio so the mixing starts when the new ones start getting "caught up" or whatever.... But if mixing only starts with new-release ratio is better balanced, then why is it that for MONTHS after a new release, that's all you can breed? Breed a NR and something from 10 months ago, you'll get a NR every single time. Why is breeding soooo unbalanced if "mixing" happens because things are getting balanced? That makes no sense to me.

 

Imo a 24-hour-pure-drop could be wonderful for many, many users. Every single timezone would get the *same* chance at grabbing the new eggs. And maybe the added numbers would mean breeding *wouldn't* be that stilted for that long.

 

I don't pretend to know the behind-the-scenes for DC, but if there is no "new release" code... well why can't there be? I mean there has to be *some* sort of "holiday" code, right, so how hard can a new release code be? I have no clue what it would take code-wise, but I'm sure it's *possible* to make a "this breed only for (so many) hours" code...

[Fuzzbucket]

Midnight worked well for people all over the world.

Well, no. It didn't. That's the POINT he was trying to address.

 

I do think a 24 hour drop - at least with no mixing in the biomes of the new eggs, till the end (regular eggs could maybe drop in the biomes where these is nothing new, to keep the people who say they are BORED already happy ) - would help the people whatever time is chosen does not work for. Which is a LOT of us. Off the record I know people in Europe who could not do the midnight thing and have got people in the US to catch on their scrolls for them - to name but one thing some people were forced to do to get around it. (no, they couldn't gift as they would have locked their own scrolls with eggs with a 5 hour wait, and as people are afraid of another blusang/copper thing, they weren't about to wait and gift after 5 hours when the risk of not getting any more for themselves was just too high.

 

YES it's against the rules - but they felt they had no choice.

[Guillotine]

@Marie19R It's really only an issue with uncommons/rares; most commons bounce back from long drops very quickly. A long drop not mitigated by something (iirc there have been multiple suggestions for that something in this thread alone) could lead to a nasty drought.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Guillotine

[GhostMouse]

Various AP changes - no notification

May release - notification at the release time, that it will be on DC Birthday instead.

lineage view changes - no notification

September Release - Change from first sunday to first sunday after the first saturday, 6 hours before the fact.

October release - Notification as part of September, extra notification 2 hours before the fact, which would be to late for People who had not seen the other.

November release - done in the last possible date to keep his word, no notification before.

Egg shuffling in cave - no notification

january release - no notification at all whether there would be one or not.

April release - rescheduled 2 hours before the fact.

I think thats enough threads/events with negative feedback EVERY TIME to learn it:

 

Give Advance Notice.

Give Advance Notice.

Give Advance Notice.

 

And no, less than 2 days is not advance notice when that's the shortest time you can hatch dragons.

I've been following this thread, particularly after the April release, and I have to say: This. So much this.

 

We were given only two hours notice that the release would happen at a different time. That's more than we usually get and it's still unprofessional. Doing something like this in an academic or business environment would have negative consequences. Even doing something like this to your friends, bailing at the last minute, usually means those friends will eventually stop wanting to make plans with you. It's simply rude.

 

While this release worked out fine for me personally, it still annoys me that I had no idea it was going on.

[Fuzzbucket]

I really don't think we need two days; we all know the kind of date when the monthly release happens - and if it doesn't at all for some reason, we can then fill up again. But please never again a notification that it is changed so late in the day. 24 hours would be fine. At the top of the News thread - like this time - but 24 hours before it happens.

 

I'm just very glad I was living in cave time this month; I would have been royally pissed if I had got up at 5 am for nothing, never mind got up at 5 and gone to a cybercafe specially... This way I rushed to the PC at midnight; swore - um - creatively and went to bed. And I for one do actually prefer the 1pm thing - but yes, Saturday to Sunday would be better. Though YES I know that some people work weekends, but at least it will help with school, which is specially good for players who aren't allowed to stay up late and then have to go to school before they have a chance to catch.

Edited April 8, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Gladtobemom]

I've been thinking about it.

 

If there needs to be "mixing" to avoid messing up ratios . . . why not just let eggs drop in the biomes where the new dragons are NOT dropping for the first 24 hours.

 

Dragons not claimed would go into the AP and they'd get picked up and hatched when they got on low time--so the ratios would be preserved.

 

Of course, there would be two days of the eggs exclusive to the new-egg biomes, but that shouldn't prove too bad.

 

 

[Jazeki]

I've been thinking about it.

 

If there needs to be "mixing" to avoid messing up ratios . . . why not just let eggs drop in the biomes where the new dragons are NOT dropping for the first 24 hours.

 

Dragons not claimed would go into the AP and they'd get picked up and hatched when they got on low time--so the ratios would be preserved.

 

Of course, there would be two days of the eggs exclusive to the new-egg biomes, but that shouldn't prove too bad.

I actually saw this happening later during the release before the old eggs started mixing in. One or two eggs would appear in the empty biomes and would be gone by the time I clicked back to them. I am not sure if it was intentional or not. I wouldn't mind this kind of release adjustment though.

[Gladtobemom]

A long time ago, I was forced to take a class by my employer on "statistics and rewards."

 

There was a "rule of thumb" for evaluating feedback.

 

In a "closed" population where all are "concerned" (such as a forum where everyone that belongs is a member of a group) or a group of employees . . . websites were a new thing back then. I remember we were dealing with businesses larger than 500 and smaller than 10,000 employees.

 

For each complement, there are approximately 20-50 (or 10-25%) members that agree with the complement, but apathy prevents their participation. Also, there is the "if it's good, why say anything, because things are supposed to be good" syndrome. Optimistic people tend to think that things will get sorted out and fixed, it will just take time, and if it doesn't change, there must be some reason, so adapting is better than complaining.

 

For each complaint, there are approximately 10-20 (or 5-10%) 1 members that agree with the complaint, but apathy prevents their participation. Also, thee is the "Why should I waste my time to complain" syndrome. A significant number of people are pessimistic, they think even constructive complaints are irritating and get people noticed in a bad way, and have no real affect on actual conditions.

 

Complaints and Complements tend to be made by people that are neither very optimistic, nor very pessimistic. They are made by people that are more concerned and sensitive to change. These people actually are easier to convince to adjust their thinking or contribute constructive ideas if they feel heard.

 

Reading this thread, there are a LOT of people, almost everyone, that were dissatisfied with the amount of notice of change. TJ's right to make the decision has been vehemently defended in the same posts where he's been chastised. I find this curiously diplomatic. In an employment situation, it would indicate fear of reprisal.

 

There also seem to be a lot of people that want the monthly drops to continue, and they are actually surprised and happy that the drop went pretty well. These complements seems to almost all be accompanied by the wish for more advanced notice of change in the future.

 

So . . . If you use the multipliers:

Pretty much ANY timeframe or ANY distribution profile for the drops would be acceptable to a very large percentage of the group.

 

There is a desire for advanced notice, but the group doesn't expect it and they are unwilling to go as far as to "demand" it.

 

Speaking as a retired Academic and Engineer that had to actually run a cooperative organization for many years. I'd say this leaves TJ with a really good option here.

 

He can come out and say, "I'm pleased that the actual drop went well for most people. So, the experiment was a limited success, sorry for the sudden change."

 

I don't think the complaining will stop until TJ says SOMETHING about his intentions and his own attitude toward the requests by so very many that he at least make an attempt at giving more advanced notice.

 

Note: I actually dug out the old notebook for the class and filled in the actual numbers. The studies were with groups of employees, cooperative buying groups, leagues, and clubs. The "numbers" were for studies with closed groups under 1000, the percentages refer to larger groups that were fully and anonymously polled after initial opportunities to give voluntary feedback.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Gladtobemom

[Fuzzbucket]

The only issue with all that is that TJ has said many times (and it is borne out by what I know of other players) that MOST players are not also forum members - so anything agreed on the forum in whatever way will NOT necessarily reflect the views of the entire player base. The base population is not therefore actually closed as there are so many who - shall we say - leak out the edges. And many who are out there thinking WTF will therefore never see what he says.

 

And no, everyone cannot be on forum - some countries actually block forums, many players are too young to be allowed here and so on.

Edited April 8, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[CNR4806]

The only issue with all that is that TJ has said many times (and it is borne out by what I know of other players) that MOST players are not also forum members - so anything agreed on the forum in whatever way will NOT necessarily reflect the views of the entire player base. The base population is not therefore actually closed as there are so many who - shall we say - leak out the edges. And many who are out there thinking WTF will therefore never see what he says.

 

And no, everyone cannot be on forum - some countries actually block forums, many players are too young to be allowed here and so on.

You don't do a survey on popular opinion of the US president by interviewing the entire population of over 300 million. Sampling is generally considered acceptable in statistics (with a decent sample size, of course).

 

And even if the forum isn't enough to represent the thoughts of the playerbase, it is also the only real channel for voicing opinion with a considerable amount of DC players. Because, you know, TJ himself nuked the in-site poll.

Edited April 8, 2014 by CNR4806

[Fuzzbucket]

You don't do a survey on popular opinion of the US president by interviewing the entire population of over 300 million. Sampling is generally considered acceptable in statistics (with a decent sample size, of course).

 

And even if the forum isn't enough to represent the thoughts of the playerbase, it is also the only real channel for voicing opinion with a considerable amount of DC players. Because, you know, TJ himself nuked the in-site poll.

Yes I know. But even so - all I am saying is that whatever, anything agreed on forum does not necessarily represent the view of the majority. And self selection is not supposed to give an accurate result - and selection by who joined the forum - when many who would like to have a say cannot do so - is effectively self-selection.

 

This is totally impossible, I realise - but if one WANTED the genuine views of the players, the only remotely accurate way would be to email a random sampling of the entire player base. Not possible - so many with scrolls are inactive, for a start, but still.

 

I actually hate polls - they tend to get people clicking a button without even reading the options properly. So they don't even represent the views of the people voting ! There have - as you'll know - been many here where people have posted OMG I didn't understand the question and now I can't change my vote.

 

The forum is the best place to voice opinions - yes, - and you know I have done so, noisily and often. But it cannot genuinely be said to represent the views of the player base, that's all I said.

 

edited because cutting bits can have ghastly results

Edited April 8, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Shelybear]

If the playerbase has been adequately warned beforehand well in advance of the actual release, I doubt the reaction would be as bad as it is right now even if you move it ahead or postpone it by 5 days and place it on a weird hour.

nods to this.

 

The biggest problem of this delayed release is the last-minute announcement, not the time of releasing.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Shelybear

[Shelybear]

And no, everyone cannot be on forum - some countries actually block forums, many players are too young to be allowed here and so on.

Apart from forums, there are various ways (like FB) to get the latest news and respond to it. And people have FRIENDS. We have already seen enough "my friends" on forums (and even in this thread). Therefore at least, the feedback on forums represent majority.

 

EDIT:grammar mistake.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Shelybear

[Gladtobemom]

The only issue with all that is that TJ has said many times (and it is borne out by what I know of other players) that MOST players are not also forum members - so anything agreed on the forum in whatever way will NOT necessarily reflect the views of the entire player base. The base population is not therefore actually closed as there are so many who - shall we say - leak out the edges. And many who are out there thinking WTF will therefore never see what he says.

 

And no, everyone cannot be on forum - some countries actually block forums, many players are too young to be allowed here and so on.

It would be a good assumption that the people that do join the forum are the people that are neither very pessimistic or optimistic. They are people that are people that generally think that participant input has value. They also can be persuaded.

 

This forum is an "opportunity" for the group. It is not compulsory. Therefore, it is a skewed sampling.

 

In fact, though, it would tend to be a low-center approval sample, with the majority of those NOT on the forum and playing the game forming the large upper (optimistic approving) sample.

 

Since those that very strongly disapprove or are severely pessimistic probably leave the game, that would probably be a very small group in comparison to the larger approving group.

 

It would be very interesting to see how many NEW forum members have joined since this last egg drop. How many of them have been playing for quite a while and just joined to be heard. The vast majority of posts on the feedback thread are from those with MANY posts. These would be the least apathetic people that see greater value in forum participation.

 

If there were a significant spike in new applications to the forum from people that have been playing the game for a while (say . . . bronze trophy or better), then that would be a sign of growing dissatisfaction and a reduction in confidence that things will be sorted for overall improvement.

-------------------------------------

 

On a very complementary note. I find, in general, that my enjoyment of the game is greatly improved by more egg drops, the existence of biomes, the better turnover of eggs in the biomes, and the AP having lower time eggs. The game moves along faster, if I'm in the "mood" I can fill up with AP hatchlings rather quickly by incubating eggs. Trading, breeding, and glomping bring a welcomed cooperative satisfaction to a game that is essentially competitive. There's an added ability to set personal goals and cooperate in helping others with goals. I do, in fact, believe that this experimental time change was a qualified success--it can form the basis for making future drops an even better success.

[purplehaze]

I must agree with those who say we should have more notice for changes in drop times, etc. It was not a major inconvenience to me, living in the EST zone, but for some in Europe and other places on the globe it was a major problem.

 

I am not so sure that the mixing has been a real problem with this drop. Yes, other eggs did start to mix in, but not to the point where they should have kept anyone from getting their eggs. I was out hunting the new eggs last night -- more than 24 hours after the drop. I was specifically looking for Z-coded ones, which required that I not only be able to click the egg before anyone else, but needed to be able to look down at the left bottom of my screen to see its code and still click it before anyone else did. I noticed a lot of the new eggs, both varieties, sitting through 3 or 4 refreshes before anyone picked them up.

 

It was actually much harder for me to pick up the eggs in the first part of the release before the other eggs were mixing in.

 

I well understand how the Blusang/Copper drops have affected our anxiety levels about drops, but seriously they are the exception, not the rule. I just wish I had known the Coppers would become uber-rare when they first dropped. I would have made room for more on my scroll. The only CB Coppers on my scroll still are ones that I picked up in that first day of their drop + one generous gift.

[Fuzzbucket]

It would be very interesting to see how many NEW forum members have joined since this last egg drop. How many of them have been playing for quite a while and just joined to be heard. The vast majority of posts on the feedback thread are from those with MANY posts. These would be the least apathetic people that see greater value in forum participation.

Since the drop there have been 64 new members of the forum. A few are "still validating".

 

Most have not posted at all. One has posted 13 times, and one 29. One has not posted in any of these threads, only in "fun" GD threads. The other has been playing a long time, and has only said how nice the new sprites are and that they joined to see the completed threads.

 

The rest are 1 or 2 posts with one at 3.

 

Since you ask

[edwardelricfreak]

The rest are 1 or 2 posts with one at 3.

I think the first post is a mandatory one in the Introduction thread. Not totally positive.

 

So if that helps identify posts more.

 

Also I'd like to point out that just because some people have lots of posts doesn't mean they post in a lot of things regarding site features (dragons, mechanics, etc). There ARE some people who post predominantly in the RP section.

 

Maybe that doesn't matter much, but eh. :V

[rumor33]

I do agree that short notice is never a good thing, but I am glad that he did it on this release. Drakes and lovely and I'm glad there are more now, but since they have limited breeding options the chances of them being super popular is fairly low so, good release to experiment on.

 

Here in Dragtime I didn't mind the change so much. took me about...hour and a half to fill up and that's fairly typical for me out here in the country with mediocre internet. So 1pm worked well for me, its just kinda a trade off between a time when I should be sleeping and a time when I should be doing useful things with friends and family.

[Fuzzbucket]

I do agree that short notice is never a good thing, but I am glad that he did it on this release. Drakes and lovely and I'm glad there are more now, but since they have limited breeding options the chances of them being super popular is fairly low so, good release to experiment on.

Good point !

[CNR4806]

I well understand how the Blusang/Copper drops have affected our anxiety levels about drops, but seriously they are the exception, not the rule.

Exception or rule, the fact is that this sort of releases happen, and they happen without any sort of information about their rarity available (until it's too late), and obviously without any assurance of pure drop.

 

In other words, no matter how likely or unlikely a release is going to be a repeat of blusang/copper, joining with the mass on the very first few hours and clicking madly for my fill is the only way to play safe and stay clear off the guessing game called "Will it be Blusang-rare?".

Edited April 8, 2014 by CNR4806

[olympe]

Exception or rule, the fact is that this sort of releases happen, and they happen without any sort of information about their rarity available (until it's too late), and obviously without any assurance of pure drop.

 

In other words, no matter how likely or unlikely a release is going to be a repeat of blusang/copper, joining with the mass on the very first few hours and clicking madly for my fill is the only way to play safe and stay clear off the guessing game called "Will it be Blusang-rare?".

Unfortunately, this is very, very true.

[cyradis4]

Exception or rule, the fact is that this sort of releases happen, and they happen without any sort of information about their rarity available (until it's too late), and obviously without any assurance of pure drop.

 

In other words, no matter how likely or unlikely a release is going to be a repeat of blusang/copper, joining with the mass on the very first few hours and clicking madly for my fill is the only way to play safe and stay clear off the guessing game called "Will it be Blusang-rare?".

QFT.

 

This is exactly how I feel. And actually... With the coppers, we were reassured repeatedly that they were NOT rare. Well guess what? They are sure acting just as rare as Silvers! In fact, they are still trading 1:1 with CB Silvers, after nearly a year. That to me says "Rare!".

 

C4.

[Gladtobemom]

Since the drop there have been 64 new members of the forum. A few are "still validating".

 

Most have not posted at all. One has posted 13 times, and one 29. One has not posted in any of these threads, only in "fun" GD threads.  The other has been playing a long time, and has only said how nice the new sprites are and that they joined to see the completed threads.

 

The rest are 1 or 2 posts with one at 3.

 

Since you ask

Intersting, thank you.

 

If this IS a marked increase, it could be that people had a knee jerk reaction to join-to-sound off. Then when they got in and saw the whole big blowout happening . . . they sort of backed off.

 

This forum can be extremely intimidating.

 

On the other hand, if this is about normal for a 2 day period . . . then the silent and generally satisfied players are still silent and probably generally satisfied.