More releases/ Bigger releases

[Sheriziya]

Just throwing in my two cents here.....

 

Except you're still assuming that there are tons of dragons on the completed list that TJ wants to or can release.  There's quality, which we are trying to fix for future dragons,

Is this also being fixed for dragon currently already on the completed list?

but then there's also concept.  If TJ doesn't like the idea behind the dragon or the design it's not going to get released, even if it's an absolutely beautiful sprite.

If there are dragons on the completed list TJ doesn't want to ever release because he doesn't like the idea/idea doesn't fit into the cave's world/whatever, why not remove the dragon from the list and give the artist the possibility to have their dragon published elsewhere? At the moment dragons on the list can't be submitted elsewhere, per the agreement (Link at the top of Dragon Requests, thus "this section" in the below quote is "Dragon Requests"):

By submitting art to this section, you agree to the following:

 

Exclusivity All art submitted to Dragon Cave (posting to this section counts as "submitting") may not be submitted for usage or already in use on any other site, until it has been the art has been officially rejected for use on Dragon Cave. This includes, but is not limited to, other adoptables sites.

 

BTW, just noticed the typo in the quoted section rules, incidentally it's the same text that's been highlighted.

 

Then there's artists going inactive.  If TJ can't get in contact with an artist and get what he needs from them, he can't release the dragon.

 

I do agree that as many completed list dragons as possible should be used, but there are probably reasons why so few have been from there.

 

Perhaps the dragons of which the artists can't be reached, could be put on a separate list, so that they are known, but people also know they won't get a release at least until TJ has been able to contact the artist?

 

Could it be a (temporarily) solution to remove all those dragons from the completed list that?:

• Still need work (updating after being on the list for years to meet the current quality standards)
• Artist can't be reached
• Concept doesn't fit into the cave/TJ doesn't like the concept
• Anything else?

That way there would be a "clean" list of completed dragon request that might get an actual cave release (emphasis on "might").

[Jazeki]

If there are dragons on the completed list TJ doesn't want to ever release because he doesn't like the idea/idea doesn't fit into the cave's world/whatever, why not remove the dragon from the list and give the artist the possibility to have their dragon published elsewhere? At the moment dragons on the list can't be submitted elsewhere, per the agreement (Link at the top of Dragon Requests, thus "this section" in the below quote is "Dragon Requests"):

 

 

Unfortunately, TJ only contacts artists whose dragons will be released on DC at some point. Many dragons just disappear without any word either way--unless you contact TJ.

 

[Sheriziya]

Ah, that's too bad.

 

Just noticed the purge TJ did. Wow..... I really gotta check my copy of the list

[Paradisiske]

i noticed that very nice hybrid on the list is gone, i hope tj didnt get rid of it just because he didnt like the concept.

 

 

i think that if tj doesnt like a concept he should say so before the dragon reaches the completed list so people know they have to change it

 

 

 

 

and i think we need more uncommon and rare releases

[Fiona]

Some of the things that still need work have been moved back to DR already. Some have had crits given. Some have been removed altogether.

 

I'm not sure but I've been under the impression TJ doesn't want to split the Suggestions forum further into parts, which is why "missing artist" threads haven't been given a separate place.

 

Things that need more work probably should just be moved back to DR. Only TJ can really comment on concept issues. I suppose he could just put a comment on the bottom of such threads. The thread owner could then choose to change the concept or not. Not doing so of course would result in a final rejection. I do know TJ doesn't have all the time in the world though.

 

I think things that both need more work/have concept issues and have missing artists are kinda stuck though.

[silver_tiger]

Also he could have removed dragons because he does intend to release them, and wants to give people time to forget about them so they'll be a 'surprise'. He still does that, right? Hopefully the hybrid you're talking about, Celly, falls into that category.

 

I'm still of the opinion that two is the most I want in regular releases, but I could accept three-dragon releases from time to time. For me personally three-or-more-dragon releases all the time is a tad too stressful.

[Obscure_Trash]

Is this also being fixed for dragon currently already on the completed list?

We discussed going through and doing crits for completed dragons, but it's a lot of work, and some of the stuff is old enough that artists may not even want to do further edits on them unless they're guaranteed for release. Users are welcomed to request their topic be moved back to DR for reworking and final crits, though.

 

As well, sometimes it is really difficult to pinpoint the issue because there may be multiple issues that confound each other.

 

If there are dragons on the completed list TJ doesn't want to ever release because he doesn't like the idea/idea doesn't fit into the cave's world/whatever, why not remove the dragon from the list and give the artist the possibility to have their dragon published elsewhere? At the moment dragons on the list can't be submitted elsewhere, per the agreement (Link at the top of Dragon Requests, thus "this section" in the below quote is "Dragon Requests"):

 

Two main reasons things stay on the completed list: 1) TJ is undecided, and 2) some stuff could be cave ready with some edits - but again, sometimes these are hard to pinpoint.

 

If an artist is tired of waiting and wants to submit their dragon elsewhere, they can PM TJ for a final say (and let him know they wish to submit it elsewhere if it's not going to be accepted for the cave). Hopefully then he'll make a decision and, if the decision goes that way, the user is free to use their art elsewhere.

 

Perhaps the dragons of which the artists can't be reached, could be put on a separate list, so that they are known, but people also know they won't get a release at least until TJ has been able to contact the artist?

 

This seems like a lot of extra work periodically checking every single artist on the list when TJ isn't even ready to make a final decision on the dragon yet. I don't see how this benefits us, sorry. D:

 

i think that if tj doesnt like a concept he should say so before the dragon reaches the completed list so people know they have to change it

 

TJ's commented on this before and it's essentially so much work that he doesn't have the time and if forced to do it, the completed list would never get cleared of rejected concepts.

 

If an artist is curious and wants to improve, they can PM TJ and ask for crits on why the dragon was rejected - or once they know, they can contact someone like an in cave artist for some critique.

 

But anyway, I don't really want to see this topic sidetracked into completed request discussion and edits to the completed section just because it's semi-related to this discussion. If we want to continue this discussion, please feel free to start a separate thread. ^^

[The_Impossible_Girl]

I would like to see more releases, but I would rather get 3-4 new dragons every 2 or 3 months as apposed to 1-2 new dragons every month. I have breeding projects and other dragon projects I'm part of on the forum, and I think making new releases too frequently would interfere with those projects or would become a bit of a pain for in-cave artists after a while.

[Fuzzbucket]

I just looked at the numbers suggested in the poll. I am speechless. The FEWEST - and this is the max we would accept PER MONTH - suggested was 32.

 

It says I voted. I wonder what on EARTH I did - probably "view results ." 32 in a month would be madness.

 

I'm not MISSING something, am I ?

Edited January 21, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[silver_tiger]

I just looked at the numbers suggested in the poll. I am speechless. The FEWEST - and this is the max we would accept PER MONTH - suggested was 32.

 

It says I voted. I wonder what on EARTH I did - probably "view results ." 32 in a month would be madness.

 

I'm not MISSING something, am I ?

32 people voted for 4 new dragons per month. It's a little confusing so I don't blame you for misunderstanding the poll; I had to stare at it for a few minutes trying to figure out what was wrong with this picture before I realized. It would be a bit clearer if they wrote out the numbers or said '1 dragon', maybe. Too late now though.

Edited January 21, 2017 by silver_chan

[Fuzzbucket]

Oops

[Paradisiske]

I still stand by what I said in 2017. More releases especially from the completed list now that the completed list is hidden from public view. More uncommons and rares especially now that we have the market making it possible for anyone to get them even if they have the worst internet in the world. 

 

I personally would love another mod mayhem/madness where mods get to pick dragons from the completed list to be chosen for release. I also think that dragon concepts on the completed list that have inactive artists should be given their own section so that if the op is still active can choose to wait and see if the artist will come back or put it back into dr and look for a new artist. 

 

 

I personally would love to see at least 500 dragons in cave. We are already so close to 300 dragons! I think the two dragons a month is pretty good but I would not say no to 3 or 4 dragons a month or every other month or two.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Paradisiske

[HeatherMarie]

Is this topic really still relevant anymore? Looking back at the OP and first few pages, this was suggested back when we *didn't* have consistent monthly releases *and* the releases we did have were usually very small. Just looking at the last two years I'd say most of the discussion in this thread is completely outdated now (Xeno release, this past birthday release, actually all birthday releases in the past few years, plus pretty much every single non-holiday release is at least two breeds now).  Maybe if changes to the current releases are desired a new thread should be made. 

 

That said, I think what we have now is plenty. Look at the trading hub and the various threads around here, there are still plenty of people struggling to get birthday release dragons! Having *that* many new releases at once is just too overwhelming and honestly impossible to actually handle with the limited eggslots we currently have. As I said above, pretty much every regular new release now is at least two breeds, and the last year or so we *have* seen more public DR concepts released. So... Yeah, I don't really see a need for this currently. 

[purplehaze]

39 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

there are still plenty of people struggling to get birthday release dragons! Having *that* many new releases at once is just too overwhelming and honestly impossible to actually handle with the limited eggslots we currently have.

As one of those people still struggling -- not only with birthday release, but still trying to catch up to the newer Xenos and the original Cantors -- I am very much against having more and larger releases! I nearly lost interest in playing after the birthday release just felt impossible. I think frequent large releases would drive me away, even after all the time and effort I have spent on building my scroll. I really haven't even had time to work on building lineages lately due to trying to catch up with things, which I find frustrating as someone who loves to build lineages.

[dragongrrl]

2-3 dragons a month is plenty. I still don't have a new Copper, green Nilias, magenta Floret or CB Pink or Yellow Sapphires from the Birthday release. Since I want a minimum of 8 CB (or 2nd gen hybrids) for 4 breeding pairs of each, more than two new breeds puts me way behind in my ability to reach my basic scroll goals, especially with pseudo-rares like the Gemshards and Sapphires.

[Fuzzbucket]

Agree - it is increasingly hard to keep up with what is being released - for anyone who wants CBs of everything, it is becoming close to impossible. We don't need to make it even harder.

[DragonLady86]

Yeah, no. So many people asking for the releases to be smaller recently with all the big releases, this is no longer a problem. We have the opposite problem now actually. This past release was two dragons, did you see how many people specifically thanked TJ and the artists for that? Because they didn't have to struggle as much? 

[Jazeki]

Please, no. I don't see why *500* should be the magic number here. What happens when we hit it? Even more dragons needed?

 

I don't have CB's of the new sapphire colors and I'm missing most of the new gemshards, too. Having bigger and more complicated releases doesn't make it fun for everyone. 

 

I think consistent releases like we have now are fine. Sure, I'd like to see more breeds from the completed list. But to tweak releases just to hit a certain number of breeds in cave is something I'd rather not see.

[HeatherMarie]

2 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

Please, no. I don't see why *500* should be the magic number here. What happens when we hit it? Even more dragons needed?

 

I don't have CB's of the new sapphire colors and I'm missing most of the new gemshards, too. Having bigger and more complicated releases doesn't make it fun for everyone. 

 

I think consistent releases like we have now are fine. Sure, I'd like to see more breeds from the completed list. But to tweak releases just to hit a certain number of breeds in cave is something I'd rather not see.

 

Agreed. According to my spreadsheet (which, admittedly, may be missing one or two of the newer breeds) if we count all the different variants (Cantors/Nebulas/Sapphires/Gemshards/etcetc) separately we currently have 342 different breeds/variants. Not counting any of the zombie-types, and not counting all the breeds that have significant dimorphism. Given that user's scroll-goals can differ wildly, from just a pair of each to a dozen or more, that seems to be *plenty* to keep us occupied. Especially given just how many new variants we've gotten just in the past year or so. 

 

I wouldn't want there to *stop* being new releases, but I do think it's better for hunting/catching/goals for most users if the releases are kept at a manageable level. 2-3 per month seems fine, and that's what it currently is.  I don't at all understand wanting to hit a specific number of unique breeds, whether 400 or 500 or whatever, there doesn't seem to be any reason there at all except basic numbers. And regardless, if DC continues on, eventually we *will* get to those numbers. Rushing to shove more and more new breeds into the game at the expense of fun, ease of play, attainable goals, etc isn't something I can understand at all.

[FortyTwo]

It took me about half a year of full effort to acquire 250 frozen hatchlings and catch up my frozen hatchling collection. That's at least 2 freezes per breed (3 for dimorphism) and a maximum of 14 freezes/2 week period. Now of course you also have all the different zombie hatchlings and all the adult sprites which are impossible unless you're dedicated. Heck, I have a group for all the different sprites except zombies,and it currently totals 1,264 but there's a few missing from it.

 

It's a lot of work and must be daunting for new users who want to collect them all. They also don't have all the space and freeze slots like platinum users do. To be honest if it wasn't for help from a friend I'm not sure I could've completed my frozens.

 

The birthday release was particularly overwhelming.

 

One of my non-forum friends has been playing DC since 2008, she used to collect a frozen and two adults of every breed. Now though she's fallen behind because it's just too much work.

 

I'm fine with ~2 breeds a month.

[Paradisiske]

1 hour ago, FortyTwo said:

It took me about half a year of full effort to acquire 250 frozen hatchlings and catch up my frozen hatchling collection. That's at least 2 freezes per breed (3 for dimorphism) and a maximum of 14 freezes/2 week period. Now of course you also have all the different zombie hatchlings and all the adult sprites which are impossible unless you're dedicated. Heck, I have a group for all the different sprites except zombies,and it currently totals 1,264 but there's a few missing from it.

 

It's a lot of work and must be daunting for new users who want to collect them all. They also don't have all the space and freeze slots like platinum users do. To be honest if it wasn't for help from a friend I'm not sure I could've completed my frozens.

 

The birthday release was particularly overwhelming.

 

One of my non-forum friends has been playing DC since 2008, she used to collect a frozen and two adults of every breed. Now though she's fallen behind because it's just too much work.

 

I'm fine with ~2 breeds a month.

I have a group too at about 930 for 1 adult pair, 1 hatchie pair and 1 ungendered hatchie for all cb. https://dragcave.net/group/154841

 

I am missing a lot from it and haven't even really put in the effort for zombies. Yet I am still working on it. 

 

You make a good point about newbies. It can be daunting with so many breeds but frankly unlike a lot of other games such as magistream which make certain breeds limited time only and then you can never ever get it again dc doesn't do that anymore. FOMO is gone and that is what makes dc so enjoyable that you can not play the game for years then come back to it and get everything. So by putting in the time even sporadically they can get all the breeds and all the trophy levels. They may not be cb but with the market it is now a possibility to get mostly everything cb.

 

@HeatherMarie @Jazeki I said 500 because it just seemed like a nice number. 500 is half of a 1000 and to be honest I do not see this game coming up with 1000 unique dragon breeds. 500 seems doable to me in terms of what unique dragon breeds can actually be created. However I could be wrong and no one can think of enough new dragon breeds to reach 500 or they think of enough to reach 1000.  Thank you for doing the math btw! I was goin off of the in cave dragon breed counter so I was unaware that we are technically at 342 breeds. Wow, that is a lot. 

 

As for the sapphire alts, I think those should be put into the market along with like ridgewing alts. Luckily gemshard alts are in the market already so those of us who cannot hunt for them are able to get them. The market should contain imo all available dragon breeds that don't exist on rng. This would help alleviate some of the issues imo. If not, it is possible to trade for them. The trades for cb pink sapphires have calmed down a lot in what the traders are asking for. Plus I know that people have been giving them away like in the unofficial discord. In fact a lot of good stuff gets raffled off there like cb metals or 2g spriters alts. 

 

 

But as I said before I am fine with the 2 breeds a month. Just that I would not say no to more than that. 

[Jazeki]

Like HeatherMarie, I don't want DC releases to stop. (Ideally, DC will continue on until I'm in the dirt lolol). I still don't really see the logic in aiming for a certain amount of breeds, regardless of whether people experience fear of missing out or not. Maybe people don't want to spend their market shards to catch up or they simply don't have as much time to play. It sounds very much like a challenge to the artists' creativity at this point, which is... disheartening? To say the least. 

[kiramaru7]

I agree with the others here who say 2 breeds a month is good. Anything more than that becomes difficult. Like others have said, I too haven't caught up with my scroll goals for the bday release. In the past, I used to catch at least 16 CBs of each dragon released,(unless it was a hybrid or just plain impossible to get) plus 2 I bred. That's become very hard to do lately & the thought of trying to grab more than 2 new breeds gives me a headache. So I've cut back on what I'm willing to collect for scroll goals just so the game will remain fun. I'm an older member too, who's been playing since 2009.

 

I also hope come next year's bday bash, we DON'T get a ton of new dragons. I'd much rather one special dragon that drops like a holiday, but breeds true all year 'round, like the non-holiday ones.

 

So NO to big drops of more than 2 new breeds.

[Fuzzbucket]

6 hours ago, Paradisiske said:

I have a group too at about 930 for 1 adult pair, 1 hatchie pair and 1 ungendered hatchie for all cb. https://dragcave.net/group/154841

 

I am missing a lot from it and haven't even really put in the effort for zombies. Yet I am still working on it. 

 

You make a good point about newbies. It can be daunting with so many breeds but frankly unlike a lot of other games such as magistream which make certain breeds limited time only and then you can never ever get it again dc doesn't do that anymore. FOMO is gone and that is what makes dc so enjoyable that you can not play the game for years then come back to it and get everything. So by putting in the time even sporadically they can get all the breeds and all the trophy levels. They may not be cb but with the market it is now a possibility to get mostly everything cb.

 

FOMO certainly isn't gone - look at the release threads. And it isn't that easy to get all the CBs - I doubt if I will ever get CB pink sapphires, and still haven't managed any CB new gemshards. And I already had everything else except zombies - the idea that a newb joining today could "easily" achieve that is mindboggling.

 

6 hours ago, kiramaru7 said:

I agree with the others here who say 2 breeds a month is good. Anything more than that becomes difficult. Like others have said, I too haven't caught up with my scroll goals for the bday release. In the past, I used to catch at least 16 CBs of each dragon released,(unless it was a hybrid or just plain impossible to get) plus 2 I bred. That's become very hard to do lately & the thought of trying to grab more than 2 new breeds gives me a headache. So I've cut back on what I'm willing to collect for scroll goals just so the game will remain fun. I'm an older member too, who's been playing since 2009.

 

I also hope come next year's bday bash, we DON'T get a ton of new dragons. I'd much rather one special dragon that drops like a holiday, but breeds true all year 'round, like the non-holiday ones.

 

So NO to big drops of more than 2 new breeds.

 Agree 100%

[Quinney]

I agree with two per month. We need breathing space in between to get on with how we play the game.  I've not done bad for scroll goals, although I gave up on a CB pink sapphire some time ago.