ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[cyradis4]

If it were the case that Fertility changed and caused multiclutches, not just "Oh btw, ALL your dragons is multiclutching nao, lol!",* I think I'd be cool with it - it'd give me the choice to use it or not. And I think I would choose to use it. I said when I caught Luckiest Catch that I wanted to give others a chance to catch 2nd gens from her in the AP, but I've been screwed by breeding rates, so it's only ever happened once. I'd be fine with using Fertility on selected breedings to cause a multiclutch, though.

 

 

 

* I have no evidence for this, but it would seem that if multiclutching were enabled for Prizes, why not ALL dragons? Now *there'd* be a new thing to fuss about...

 

Fuss about, indeed! Oh how I would LOVE multi-clutching. I recently bred 4 pairs of Olive x Albinos, and got 4 Olives. I would have dearly loved it if all had multicluted, and even two had produced a single solitary Albino..... Mind, considering that the lineage is Albino x Olive checker, most of the extras probably would have ended up in the Wild, but I'm sure some people like them! (when they are incu-hatchable that is). If fertility had caused multi-clutching, I would certainly have used it the other day, on those little twerps. All 4 pairs just LOVE to give me Olives. >.<

 

As for Prize dragons multi-clutching.... Again, I think it would screw with the ratios pretty bad, but.... *shrug*

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

 

I personally would say no to releasing CB shimmers/tinsels in to the biomes just like that. Honestly, there was on suggestion I really liked....the one with the duller colored prize dragon. I don't think , forgive me if I sound greedy (I'm really not trying to be), just releasing the normal prize dragons out in to the biomes is the best course of action. As much as I hate exclusive dragons, these ARE exclusive. I don't think their exclusiveness need to be undone for the sake of...I dunno..."making things fair"??.

 

I know that sounds horrible, but hear me out. We were gien them as exclusive dragons, so I think they need to stay that way.  I do fully support the alterate color being released though! I think that would be amaingly fun. C:

 

As for multi-clutches, I do not support even in the slightest. I bred some lineages from my dork exclusive to friends. If I had produced 4 eggs? That would really make me angry. I even have my own exclusive things an I dont want other people tog et specific lineages I bred exclusive to friends and myself just because you want to icnrease it. Honestly ; I feel like that would damage the ratios. I mean yeah, you said it was a chance, but I dont want that chance in case I'm trying to breed an exclusive gift for a friend or a fun lineage for myself.

The thing is, dark colored copies don't really solve much. As awesome as a dark Shimmer would be--I want lines with Silver Shimmers. I want Silver Shimmers with Sunsongs, with Green Coppers, with female Silvers... and even if a coal version were released, that wouldn't change. Others who really like certain colors would probably feel the same as well, and prices for original Prizes would stay inflated. It might make some people happy, so it'd be better than nothing, but overall--IF an in-cave release were to happen--I think the normal versions is the way to go.

 

Many things in the cave have changed. We were told Zombies could never be removed; we were told you could only ever have two Yulebucks; we were told rares couldn't breed with rares. So I see no reason exclusives couldn't later be given a full release. Three years of complete, unquestionable dominance of the trade market is more than enough of a reward, IMO. Prices might go down a little if people knew CBs would come out later on, but I daresay there'd still be plenty of people paying CB Metals and Neglecteds and other goodies for low gens before then, either because they don't want to wait or they want to collect from the original lines.

 

I also don't find the idea of multiclutching particularly offensive. It's always happened for Holidays, and for a couple years, it happened for every dragon in the game. I don't remember people complaining about it then... it was accepted and not a big deal. Obviously multiclutching has fallen off now, and there's an expectation that it's going to stay that way--but it's never been set in stone that it'll stay that way, either.

 

You say you feel a little greedy in saying what you did, and I'll confess I feel a little guilty in asking for what I am. Still, unless something happens and the game becomes more balanced--until the rarest things again become things almost everyone can obtain with hard work--it's something I'm willing to consider. Because the more out-of-reach things there are in a collecting game, the less fun the game is.

 

(I realize that the sprites can still be obtained, and that there are other exclusives, like Old Pinks--but for many of us, if it's just collecting sprites rather than lineages, it's really too easy, and in the latter case, at least there's the comfort of not having them dangled over your head, available but impossibly priced)

 

 

Edited January 13, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Amazon_warrior]

 

Fuss about, indeed! Oh how I would LOVE multi-clutching. I recently bred 4 pairs of Olive x Albinos, and got 4 Olives. I would have dearly loved it if all had multicluted, and even two had produced a single solitary Albino..... Mind, considering that the lineage is Albino x Olive checker, most of the extras probably would have ended up in the Wild, but I'm sure some people like them! (when they are incu-hatchable that is). If fertility had caused multi-clutching, I would certainly have used it the other day, on those little twerps. All 4 pairs just LOVE to give me Olives. >.<

 

As for Prize dragons multi-clutching.... Again, I think it would screw with the ratios pretty bad, but.... *shrug*

 

Cheers!

C4.

I tend to agree re the ratios. And about the common x common lineages! I would *adore* a Fertility multiclutch for some of my lineages so that I have a sniff of a chance of getting the right flipping breed!

[Princess_Pinkie]

If it were the case that Fertility changed and caused multiclutches, not just "Oh btw, ALL your dragons is multiclutching nao, lol!",* I think I'd be cool with it - it'd give me the choice to use it or not. And I think I would choose to use it. I said when I caught Luckiest Catch that I wanted to give others a chance to catch 2nd gens from her in the AP, but I've been screwed by breeding rates, so it's only ever happened once. I'd be fine with using Fertility on selected breedings to cause a multiclutch, though.

 

 

 

* I have no evidence for this, but it would seem that if multiclutching were enabled for Prizes, why not ALL dragons? Now *there'd* be a new thing to fuss about...

i really like this idea actually. fertility (or even a new BSA) causes a multiclutch should the dragons produce.

[Amazon_warrior]

i really like this idea actually. fertility (or even a new BSA) causes a multiclutch should the dragons produce.

Istr that TJ himself suggested it, and quite some time ago, too, so it's clearly something he's considering carefuly. There's a thread somewhere in the BSA section...

[natli]

@Naruhina 94

Difference is - TJ implied the CBs will be special "award" for the users. However, TJ didn't imply their offspring will be a special award for the users. I cannot say it clearer than this.

Edited January 13, 2014 by natli

[diaveborn]

There's a thread somewhere in the BSA section...

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=130166

[Qualeo]

I admit, it would be somewhat disappointing and I do also admit I really would prefer the exclusives stay exclusive, but if I had to chose between that and multiclutches..I really would still say no to multi-clutches. I completely understand why you would want them, but I do't want them. Not because I don't want them being given to for "free" (Seriously, I dont care about trading. I do it, but then i gift everything i got away). Its just...you have to think about our personal preferences as well. If I want to give my friends something special and exclusive for them, I don't see any good reason as to why my ability to do that should be threatened. granted, I've completed that ages ago, so it might not affect me now....but if I'm trying to breed for different people and multiclutches affect the ratio? I'd rather have one egg a week than 3 in one week and nothing for two months. D:

 

Of course you're not going o hear anybody complaining - usually it doesn't affect an entire member base at once, so you wouldn't notice. And prize winners, whiel there are even ore now, we are still a minority. Its harder to see when a minority complains compared to the majority. You have to take in to consideration that it affects s just as much as it does you. D:

 

As for the different colored prize dragon ; yeah I do understand. I admit I'd be disappointed if I were on the opposite end. I also know things change but... this just feels different I don't know. The firs year tinsels...they worked for their prize winning for one. The rest of us got ucky, but we still did work to get the raffle tickets to be lucky. All of it was earned not just from luck, bt form actually doing the events to be able to have a chance. Whats the point in doing all that to have a chance if it'll just ebr eleased later. I certainly wouldn't put a smuch effort as I do in events now if I knew that. Yes people will be impatient and still want to win, ut honestly..I don't know..I just think they'll lsoe something. Not vaue - no again I don't care about that. I look at my dumb dragon and remember how painfl it was to figure out how to boil water.

[Amazon_warrior]

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=130166

Thank'ee.

 

@natli: I suppose you can argue that, but the playerbase *does* view (low-gen, 'cos evidently no one gives a crap about high gens) Prize offspring as a reward; either for collecting scads of shinies or for having a good relationship with another player...

 

 

I get what Qualeo is saying too - if multiclutching was a Fertility shake-up, any breedings for trades and gifts would be "unfertilised" because I'd like that person to have something personal and exclusive to them - a little share of the CB Prize glamour, if you will. And breedings I did for myself would be "fertilised" because I really am not that fussed about trades, I pretty much have all the shinies and whatnot I could need and the rest is within easy grasp with a little patience. *shrug*

Edited January 13, 2014 by Amazon_warrior

[Naruhina_94]

I have a question for you: do you want to see any other wonderful prize dragon except Shimmer and Tinsel?

 

no: the cave will remains without a great surprise-factor and your CB shimmer/Tisel will have more clones every year.

 

yes: The cave will show all new prize breed and new surprise, even old winner will have something new to win and your old CB prize won't be devaluteted for many other winners that are getting the same, identical sprite. (also a not important thing, but just to say it to complete: you will make happy all other users in DC. About 5000? I don't know, maybe more )

 

Keep calm and relased prize dragons some years after their raffle. These will be the way to make majority.

I totally quote angelicdragonpuppy:

. Three years of complete, unquestionable dominance of the trade market is more than enough of a reward, IMO. Prices might go down a little if people knew CBs would come out later on, but I daresay there'd still be plenty of people paying CB Metals and Neglecteds and other goodies for low gens before then, either because they don't want to wait or they want to collect from the original lines.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Fuzzbucket]

If it were the case that Fertility changed and caused multiclutches, not just "Oh btw, ALL your dragons is multiclutching nao, lol!",* I think I'd be cool with it - it'd give me the choice to use it or not.  And I think I would choose to use it.  I said when I caught Luckiest Catch that I wanted to give others a chance to catch 2nd gens from her in the AP, but I've been screwed by breeding rates, so it's only ever happened once.  I'd be fine with using Fertility on selected breedings to cause a multiclutch, though.

 

 

 

* I have no evidence for this, but it would seem that if multiclutching were enabled for Prizes, why not ALL dragons?  Now *there'd* be a new thing to fuss about...

TJ has actually suggested changing the fertility BSA to give a chance of multiclutching.

 

Oops ninjaed ! (you all type fast !)

Edited January 13, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Naruhina_94]

@Naruhina 94

Difference is - TJ implied the CBs will be special "award" for the users. However, TJ didn't imply their offspring will be a special award for the users. I cannot say it clearer than this.

I think that the clearest thing in this game right now is that Shimmer and Tinsel low gen are two of the most valuated things.

 

Maybe TJ have never said it, but this is the true, what gamers like and want the most. So it would be a pragmatic action find a solution, like he had already did before

 

Anyway I think they ARE a special award for the users, since you have to sell your soul to obtain a 2nd gen right now Are you saying that they are not something that people love to show? Signatures seems shopping lists because plenty of lists of Shimmer and Tinsel and Fabouls Dragons

[natli]

Thank'ee.

 

@natli: I suppose you can argue that, but the playerbase *does* view (low-gen, 'cos evidently no one gives a crap about high gens) Prize offspring as a reward; either for collecting scads of shinies or for having a good relationship with another player...

 

 

I get what Qualeo is saying too - if multiclutching was a Fertility shake-up, any breedings for trades and gifts would be "unfertilised" because I'd like that person to have something personal and exclusive to them - a little share of the CB Prize glamour, if you will. And breedings I did for myself would be "fertilised" because I really am not that fussed about trades, I pretty much have all the shinies and whatnot I could need and the rest is within easy grasp with a little patience. *shrug*

Hm, so the prize owner could choose which breedings to multiclutch? Well, I'm open to suggestions... and this is killing two birds with one stone: finding a compromise and making fertility *useful* lol

[DarkEternity]

But then again, it would probably be interesting to see the private reaction winners in 2010 to the winners of 2011, especially when tinsels were rereleased (devaluing their prizes) and when shimmers were released.

 

It might've paralleled, in a small way, the reaction to this thread.

Edited January 13, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Vhale]

/still thought the Coal variant was cute

/and it would help even gens that are ocd about breed checkers.

 

I like the fertility idea at first glance but you'd get some whiplash at "prize owner greed" as it would be the prize owners choice to use or not use it. Whereas now, we are all slaves to ratios.

[LaHaine]

(edit: didn't mean to quote you, sorry)

 

The problem is that: Why are raffle dragons so exclusive? I understand it's a raffle, but we don't do anything special at all to win a ticket. This year for example, took me 2 minutes to reach level 25 after not doing anything and accumulating snow. The cooking event last year was a bit more of work. We all do the same job to get a ticket. Yet in a dragon catching game the actual chances to win a dragon in a holiday event, that's supposed to be fun, are so low it makes the actual dragon a rarity. I don't support prize winners controlling all the cb versions of a breed at all, when pretty much everyone who enters the raffle did the same exact thing as them. I understand it's a raffle and luck is involved (and the choosing process is of course is fair), but I don't like the current idea behind the raffle, what it ends up doing to the game. A small group of people controlling all lineages isn't an idea that I like.

 

Other games I play just reward people (everyone) for playing their winter games with unique creatures that you don't otherwise get. In my honest opinion, I'd rather have that

Edited January 13, 2014 by LaHaine

[Amazon_warrior]

/still thought the Coal variant was cute

/and it would help even gens that are ocd about breed checkers.

 

I like the fertility idea at first glance but you'd get some whiplash at "prize owner greed" as it would be the prize owners choice to use or not use it. Whereas now, we are all slaves to ratios.

Yeah, but when *isn't* there whiplash about CB owner greed? (Sorry, not cross at you specifically, just bored of always being painted as a bad guy no matter what...)

 

 

 

 

Thing I always find funny/soddin' irritating is the people crying "But I want it (CB/2nd gen) for the linnnnnnneeeages!"

 

Really? I'm a lineage maker, and reasonably well-known for it too, at least in EG circles. Did you check my scroll recently? See how many 2nd gens I have from Luckiest Catch on my scroll? That's right, one. Out of a total of 15 bred Shimmer 2nd gens. One 2nd gen is not going to make me a whole lot of diverse lineages. So, to make all those pretty lineages that people think prize owners all make, I either have to 1) keep more 2nd gen Shimmers on my scroll, thereby not spreading them around the other players OR 2) only trade for prizeswaps.* Ideally, both. And neither of which anyone here would thank me for.

 

 

* I've traded for three prizeswaps so far, none of which came from a silver Shimmer...

[tjekan]

I like the fertility idea at first glance but you'd get some whiplash at "prize owner greed" as it would be the prize owners choice to use or not use it. Whereas now, we are all slaves to ratios.

I think most prize owners would choose to use it, because it ups their chances of getting a prize egg from the clutch. :-) There'd be a lot more prizefails around, of course, but with the incuhatchable AP, I doubt it would bother anyone.

 

Naruhina, no one's talking about making prize owners give up their bred eggs. The "multiclutch" suggestion means the dragon would have a chance of breeding MULTIPLE eggs, just like dragons do at Christmastime. The breeder gets to choose which egg he or she wants for keeping or trading.

 

There are a few people who object to multiclutching for personal reasons, but not because they will lose the ability to keep or trade eggs as you seem to fear.

[LaHaine]

Yeah, but when *isn't* there whiplash about CB owner greed?    (Sorry, not cross at you specifically, just bored of always being painted as a bad guy no matter what...)

 

 

 

 

Thing I always find funny/soddin' irritating is the people crying "But I want it (CB/2nd gen) for the linnnnnnneeeages!"

 

Really?  I'm a lineage maker, and reasonably well-known for it too, at least in EG circles.  Did you check my scroll recently?  See how many 2nd gens I have from Luckiest Catch on my scroll?  That's right, one.  Out of a total of 15 bred Shimmer 2nd gens.  One 2nd gen is not going to make me a whole lot of diverse lineages.  So, to make all those pretty lineages that people think prize owners all make, I either have to 1) keep more 2nd gen Shimmers on my scroll, thereby not spreading them around the other players OR 2) only trade for prizeswaps.*  Ideally, both.  And neither of which anyone here would thank me for. 

 

 

* I've traded for three prizeswaps so far, none of which came from a silver Shimmer...

See? Wouldn't you be much more relaxed if we didn't depend on you and other winners to make our own lineages? (at least not as much as right now)

Edited January 13, 2014 by LaHaine

[tjekan]

I'm a lineage maker, and reasonably well-known for it too, at least in EG circles. Did you check my scroll recently? See how many 2nd gens I have from Luckiest Catch on my scroll? That's right, one. Out of a total of 15 bred Shimmer 2nd gens. One 2nd gen is not going to make me a whole lot of diverse lineages. So, to make all those pretty lineages that people think prize owners all make, I either have to 1) keep more 2nd gen Shimmers on my scroll, thereby not spreading them around the other players OR 2) only trade for prizeswaps.* Ideally, both. And neither of which anyone here would thank me for.

Multiclutches would help with that. Just sayin'. ;-)

[Fuzzbucket]

(edit: didn't mean to quote you, sorry)

 

The problem is that: Why are raffle dragons so exclusive? I understand it's a raffle, but we don't do anything special at all to win a ticket. This year for example, took me 2 minutes to reach level 25 after not doing anything and accumulating snow. The cooking event last year was a bit more of work. We all do the same job to get a ticket. Yet in a dragon catching game the actual chances to win a dragon in a holiday event, that's supposed to be fun, are so low it makes the actual dragon a rarity. I don't support prize winners controlling all the cb versions of a breed at all, when pretty much everyone who enters the raffle did the same exact thing as them. I understand it's a raffle and luck is involved (and the choosing process is of course is fair), but I don't like the current idea behind the raffle, what it ends up doing to the game. A small group of people controlling all lineages isn't an idea that I like.

Any raffle prize is "exclusive" for no effort, in that sense - most raffles you spend your quarter, get your ticket and wait.

 

Same difference here.

 

I would hate to see winners able to choose whether or not to multiclutch, though. I think that would make all this trading stuff no better than it now is. Dragons like Luckiest Catch give whenever they can ; the kind of people who ask for your house as collateral will carry on as they are doing and never use it.

[Qualeo]

To be honest though, we shouldn't need to be stressed and should feel relaxed already lol.

 

Anyways, I would support it if it was optional. Because that means I wouldn't be forced to use it and therefore would not use it. That I can agree with. As long as multiclutches is optional, I'm okay with it.

 

 

[Amazon_warrior]

See? Wouldn't you be much more relaxed if we didn't depend on you and other winners to make our own lineages? (at least not as much as right now)

I think I'd be more relaxed if I wasn't simultaneously being blamed by inference for either accepting silly amounts of CB metals/Hollies/whatever OR not accepting silly amounts of CB metals/Hollies/whatever. I'm really not sure what I'm expected to do or not do by the general populace any more, but it sure ain't tickling my Generosity node...

 

 

@tjekan: Errmmmm.... how so? (Plus, I haven't been arguing *against* multiclutching. Just... asking for a bit of choice over it.)

Edited January 13, 2014 by Amazon_warrior

[Qualeo]

I think I'd be more relaxed if I wasn't simultaneously being blamed by inference for either accepting silly amounts of CB metals/Hollies/whatever OR not accepting silly amounts of CB metals/Hollies/whatever. I'm really not sure what I'm expected to do or not do by the general populace any more, but it sure ain't tickling my Generosity node...

 

 

@tjekan: Errmmmm.... how so?

To be honest I kind of have to agree with this? But let's avoid starting a drama fight here lol...

 

Anyways, I really odn't see multiclutches being helpful at all. Really I don't. They're not increasing shimmers at all. And if they're forced on us, I seriosly wouldn't want it and would not breed mine again jst because of that. Only if its optional.

 

And I don't think its...fair..to group the winners bse don if we use it or not. In my opinion?

[Naruhina_94]

I think most prize owners would choose to use it, because it ups their chances of getting a prize egg from the clutch. :-) There'd be a lot more prizefails around, of course, but with the incuhatchable AP, I doubt it would bother anyone.

 

Naruhina, no one's talking about making prize owners give up their bred eggs. The "multiclutch" suggestion means the dragon would have a chance of breeding MULTIPLE eggs, just like dragons do at Christmastime. The breeder gets to choose which egg he or she wants for keeping or trading.

 

There are a few people who object to multiclutching for personal reasons, but not because they will lose the ability to keep or trade eggs as you seem to fear.

uhm... you're right I suppose. Anyway to breed their CB they must take 4 slots free, don't do anything else... it's a "little" way to forced them, even because I wouldn't see a very change if they can keep all 4 eggs and decides to trade/keep and there would not be the auto-abandon action... I think I'm by their side on this part, I don't want that Others decide about My dragon

I prefer instead claim my wonderful CB prize dragon for some years, trade all the tradable and finally see everyone happy to catch them after that I've enjoy the treasure first of them