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ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

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This is absolutely not off-topic in the basis, cause the current high status of the economy is one of the reasons this thread was started in the first place: players being unable to get a low-gen prize dragon or any prize dragon at all, due to the high prices in the market. Several suggestions have been made that might (on the longer run) effect the trade market, including a combo suggestion (by me) where in the end the prize dragons even end up in the cave as rares (in the fifth year after the first release). There are ways to influence the market (a bit). Of course there are people in favor of those suggestions and people who are opposed to those suggestions (the last especially because of the exclusivity of the dragons).

I totally support your suggest because this is a fair game to me, so everyone should have the same possibilities to get his own achievements.

If I said that CB or lineaged dragons are the same just because the sprite doesn't change I wouldn't respect the point of view of many other users. (I would like to say the majority but I'm not sure, because many gamers start to care about lineages after many monthes/years that they are playing to find something new and thrilling to do.) So basically in my opinion Lineages are one of the most important things that keep a player to continue for many years, after all other achievements have been unlock. DC is great because you have many ways to play it and saying "no" to Prizes relased into the cave would be a regardless decision for those who care about CB and lineaged dragons.

 

 

How many of you would say "no" if I would say that I'm gifting a CB gold right now?

I think that almost a very large group of people would love to have it...

So basically would be the same if Prize dragons would be relased as Sheriziya said in her original idea, after 5 years. They would still be rare and difficult to get, but it will depends on our ability and not from others to decide if we can get them.

 

I was thinking a way to maintain evident the uniqueness of Prize Dragons even if Cb prizes would be relased into the cave.What about change their name color?

The lineage view would be still different, so the "real" CB prizes would become important as the current ALT Holiday spriters because there will be a visible difference between original prizes and not smile.gif

Names sometime change a dragon value... see Midas Dorkface about this xd.png

 

EXAMPLE

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Spite. We're not really supposed to discuss it any further than that. But yes, it was only one user.

around 5-10 2gs were killed, at least 3 were on burnt scrolls, at least one CB was on a burnt scroll, one 2g died after it was released to AP. So different stuff happens, and its the prerogative of the owner to spite or not, to release or not, that's why we should not talk any more than that about it. Just saying, that some 2gs will have died accidentally on top of the stats goes a little towards lessening the bad feelings.

 

 

I'm not sure, but I seem to remember that sometimes, the dragons got killed as well when a scroll was burned?

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<slightly off-topic, so probably not worth discussing here, but I want to get it off of my chest>

I have complained before about the current "economy" on Dragon Cave. As it is, trading is pretty frustrating for us 99%-ers, but there's not a lot that either we or TJ can do about it. The market will demand the prices that people are willing to pay. There's probably no reasonable way to create a forum for "low rent" trades that would actually get our offers seen by someone who might be interested. And so it is likely to stay.

</slightly off-topic>

 

I assume that by saying "low rent" that you're referring to common dragons and the sort? If so, I've been wondering if making low-gens more accessible would make it easier to trade them or not. As it is, people only ever seem to want to trade for rares or uncommons at best. Heck, if you ask for "commons" I'm pretty sure people just assume that you mean "BSAs" because that's the only answer that ever seems to come up, and that's frustrating when you're looking for something that most people don't necessarily care about.

 

But perhaps I'm getting too far off-topic.

 

 

around 5-10 2gs were killed, at least 3 were on burnt scrolls, at least one CB was on a burnt scroll, one 2g died after it was released to AP. So different stuff happens, and its the prerogative of the owner to spite or not, to release or not, that's why we should not talk any more than that about it. Just saying, that some 2gs will have died accidentally on top of the stats goes a little towards lessening the bad feelings.

 

 

I'm not sure, but I seem to remember that sometimes, the dragons got killed as well when a scroll was burned?

Oh gosh, I'm sorry for bringing that up. sad.gif I didn't know that anything was going on or had happened, and it's not completely unheard of for people to try and keep their progeny pages "pretty", but if I had known I never would have noted it.

Edited by 11th

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Do you ask in the Lottery too to get a consolidation prize??

 

A Raffle is a Raffle.

 

There are winners and loosers!

 

And if the lotto Millionaere wants to trash his money or hide it - we cant do anything! We cant ask for 5 bucks just because we played!

As a matter of fact, there isn't just one big prize in the state run lotteries and everyone else gets nothing. Prizes are a pyramid structure with thousands of small prizes, hundreds of medium prizes, a few largish prizes and then the big deal.

 

I used to work at a gas station that sold the tickets. One long term customer bought each of the (three) employees working there that night a ticket one time. I was one, and won $10 on it. Yes, there are "consolation" prizes in lotteries. Lots and lots of consolation prizes. (actually, 100's of thousands each draw)

 

Whether or not TJ chooses to hand out a coal colored version, or ups the number of HM prizes, you can't say that the idea of a consolation prize of some sort isn't commonplace in lotteries, raffles, sporting events, etc.

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Lots and lots of consolation prizes. (actually, 100's of thousands each draw)

But still most people (the bottom of the pyramid) get nothing out of raffles!

 

Maybe for kids... but not for adults.

 

I cant remember a single raffle or lottery where i got money back or won a smal prize - just because i played!

Edited by tridymite

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But still most people (the bottom of the pyramid) get nothing out of raffles!

 

Maybe for kids... but not for adults.

 

I cant remember a single raffle or lottery where i got money back or won a smal prize - just because i played!

I remember lots of them, mostly at special events. Not state run lotteries, but those hosted by conventions, or special events. Giving out something special (but not nearly as special as the "winners") happens. State-run lotteries, like Mega-Millions and such, make a ton of money for the states that run them. I mean, a LOT of money, and that's why the state hosts them. That's why many raffles are hosted, to make $$ for the hoster. But some of the raffles or other events I've participated in where the goal was to have FUN (as opposed to making $$), have given out far more prizes per entries, and some do have participation prizes.

 

Yes, I'm an adult. Many people on this site are NOT adult. And most of the adults play the game so we can ESCAPE from RL.

 

I see no reason to not have a Participation prize. And just because the massive state-run lotteries (which are to make money for the state, after all, and NOT a fun event) don't have one, doesn't mean we can't. Who said DC had to ape real life? After all, I haven't seen a dragon flying around Washington DC recently, have you? In Philadelphia? New York? No? well... Maybe that's because this is a fantasy game and while having things theoretically possible doesn't mean we have to have things be "real".

 

Or, if you really are against a "participation prize" for the raffle, why not a participation prize for the game that the raffle drew its entries from?

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I think giving participation prizes would lower the value of a raffle and wouldn't make it as fun but I do agree that there should be more HM prizes. For me, it's not so much "oh no I didn't win boohoo" as it is "I didn't win, can't get a 2nd gen, and now I have to wait 365 days to try again" :[

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I'm not sure, but I seem to remember that sometimes, the dragons got killed as well when a scroll was burned?

No, the prize dragons whose scrolls were burnt are still there. See http://dragcave.net/lineage/5TPo, for example, or http://dragcave.net/lineage/1TgKF. The names disappear, but the dragons (and their lineages) remain. Prize dragons only die if the owner kills them... a rare occurrence for 2nd-gens, and AFAIK there's only been one occasion on which someone did so *after* having already traded its offspring to other people.

 

Lots of higher-gen prize dragons have been deliberately killed though, and for a variety of reasons (zombification, wanting them to look a certain way in a lineage view, frustration over misgendering, etc.)

 

Or, if you really are against a "participation prize" for the raffle, why not a participation prize for the game that the raffle drew its entries from?

We did get a badge on our scrolls for that. And we got a new holiday dragon the previous week. I'm not opposed to a 'common' version of the raffle dragon for all entrants, but I don't personally feel the need for one. The holiday season is already pretty festive around here. I'd rather see one of the suggestions for getting prize dragons to breed more or lower-gen eggs, or maybe an increase in the number of honorable mentions (though the number of custom codes being requested might start to be unwieldy, I guess.)

Edited by tjekan

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No, the prize dragons whose scrolls were burnt are still there. See http://dragcave.net/lineage/5TPo, for example, or http://dragcave.net/lineage/1TgKF. The names disappear, but the dragons (and their lineages) remain. Prize dragons only die if the owner kills them... a rare occurrence for 2nd-gens, and AFAIK there's only been one occasion on which someone did so *after* having already traded its offspring to other people.

 

Lots of higher-gen prize dragons have been deliberately killed though, and for a variety of reasons (zombification, wanting them to look a certain way in a lineage view, frustration over misgendering, etc.)

 

 

We did get a badge on our scrolls for that. And we got a new holiday dragon the previous week. I'm not opposed to a 'common' version of the raffle dragon for all entrants, but I don't personally feel the need for one. The holiday season is already pretty festive around here. I'd rather see one of the suggestions for getting prize dragons to breed more or lower-gen eggs, or maybe an increase in the number of honorable mentions (though the number of custom codes being requested might start to be unwieldy, I guess.)

You could have two tiers of honorable mentions, those that get custom codes and those that don't, if that's a problem.

 

Personally, I don't really think custom codes will get unwieldy, though, any more than the randomly generated ones are for the dragons we pick up every day in the cave.

 

Even if you want a specific spelling, there is caps/lowercase to choose from, or also substituting numbers for letters if you prefer.

Just using a four-letter code as an example (because the number of possibilities are ridiculous) you could go with:

 

LOVE, LOVe, LOve, Love

lOVE, lOVe, lOve, love

LovE, LoVe, LOvE, LoVE

lovE, loVe, lOvE, loVE

L0ve, L0Ve, L0VE, L0vE

l0ve, l0Ve, l0VE, l0vE

Lov3, LoV3, LOV3, LOv3

lov3, loV3, lOV3, lOv3

L0v3, L0V3, l0v3, l0V3

 

That's 36 different combinations to get the word "Love" and while some of them are not as recognizable as others, they're ALL recognizable for the intent.

And that's just for FOUR characters, not FIVE.

 

 

I'm all for extra honorable mentions. I think that worrying about the custom codes explosion really isn't a concern. smile.gif

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I think giving participation prizes would lower the value of a raffle and wouldn't make it as fun but I do agree that there should be more HM prizes. For me, it's not so much "oh no I didn't win boohoo" as it is "I didn't win, can't get a 2nd gen, and now I have to wait 365 days to try again" :[

Personally I like how the raffle is being done as is... you win or you lose. luck of the draw.

 

However, I can also see the benefit of a consolation prize. This would NOT be something made available in the cave. It should only be handed out to those players who actually participated in the event and met the actual goals to have earned their raffle ticket in the first place. That would leave a decent number of people having a "consolation" prize but plenty more people who don't have one because they didn't participate. They would sorta be like the Alt sweetlings I guess.. some people have them, but a lot more people don't. Even though the reason for why they got them is different than the actual raffle it was still technically luck of the draw to have ended up with a glitch abandon that later got you the alt sweetling "consolation/apology". If the raffle allows for consolation prize to those who participate and meet a minimal goal, those who do not participate or don't meet the goal have no reason to complain. Trade value for the real prizes would still remain high. Trade value for the consolation prize would balance pretty quick (as they did for those with alt sweets), but would not go down so much that they would be worthless right off the bat and be considered everyday "common".

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"This is a thread to discuss how and if future raffles might be done."

 

I want to give my pure and simple opinion on this as a player for almost 5 yrs on the above. I've no problem if future raffles aren't done, as of now, I'd prefer that. To me, the very point a game should exist is to have "fun" . If a game is not fun, it defeats the very reason why it exists. If a part of game isn't fun, the same logic applies. I want a raffle that's fun for everyone. It bothers me I didn't win anything, but it also bothers me so many others didn't win. Not everyone has to win a cb tinsel, but not everyone has to be slapped with loser title either. I enjoy the events, because they're fun for everyone and everyone plays together and enjoys. I dislike raffles because they always leave so many people disappointed/upset. It's not a simple case of dismissing them all with "booo losers". I just think this kind of activity as a whole at a jolly time like holidays is an eyesore. I wouldn't mind them so much if they were not associated to Holiday/new year and happened at a different time of the year. When I think of raffles, it's not a good feeling because I dislike the kind of atmosphere they generate in the community.

 

I'm disappointed with this year's raffle too. Some prizes were added but key problems remain unaffected. Over the past year the excitement of collecting a prize dragon has more or less fizzled out for me because of above reasons.

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@Amaterasu: the main problem with discontinuing the raffles now is that it'll only make things worse. By abruptly stopping the already very limited addition of new CBs into the economy, prices and availability of low gens won't become better, it'll become a dozen times worse. The only reason I was able to get on to a few new lists this week isn't because I've been lazy all the rest of the time, but rather because new winners are usually the only ones with open lists and / or doable trade expectations.

 

Accordingly, I feel the only way to balance things out is to either increase the amount of winners, eventually release prizes into the cave, heighten the breeding ratios of prizes (and maybe add multiclutching), or do some combo of such options.

 

 

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No, because he was discussing up to 4 eggs for a CB's offspring, up to 3 for a 2nd-gen, up to 2 for a 3rd-gen, and only 1 for 4th and higher. The effect of that would be to skew prize production in favor of more short-gens and fewer longer-gens, compared to how it is now (which is strongly the opposite.). :-)

That suggestion wasn't TJ's, it was mine. And not that good anyway because the cave doesn't discern between CB and lineaged dragons in the first place.

 

Regarding consolation prizes - would it be a bad thing if every player who participated in the event (and reached the intended goal) would get an HM, with two of the HM prize options being the coal version of recent prize dragons? Sure, a couple of people might still chose CB golds, but most probably would go for the coals.

 

And, yes, the ratios for prize dragons look like they need to get tweaked somewhat.

 

Do you ask in the Lottery too to get a consolidation prize??
In the German lottery (Lotto), there's not just the main winner, but a huge number of small and medium prizes are given out, too.

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TJ did comment favorable on your suggestion though, Olympe. And we don't know what the code can distinguish between unless he says something. Since he didn't say it couldn't distinguish, we must assume he can make it distinguish if he wants to.

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In the German lottery (Lotto), there's not just the main winner, but a huge number of small and medium prizes are given out, too.

Same here in the Netherlands. And here in the Netherlands you don't even have the guarantee the jackpot will be drawn. Only after six consecutive non-draws (as in months) the jackpot will have a guarantee to be drawn, I think. Otherwise it's pure luck.

 

And we've got loads of small prizes. Heck, last time I got 10 euros I think, sometimes you get a prize as small as 5 euros. And there are loads of them smile.gif

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That suggestion wasn't TJ's, it was mine. And not that good anyway because the cave doesn't discern between CB and lineaged dragons in the first place.

Sorry Olympe, I didn't mean to take credit away from you. :-)

 

However, the program definitely does know the generation of each dragon (for a while there it was actually presenting different lineage views depending on the number of a dragon's generation, so clearly it's a known variable.) And TJ's response to your suggestion was "This is an interesting mechanic. It'd almost work for any dragon as well (because in any lineage, there are exponentially more lower gens than higher gens," which does not sound like he thought it would be impossible to implement. To the contrary, it sounds like he thought it was a good idea, so much so that I remembered it as being one of his hypothetical ideas. :-D

Edited by tjekan

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Regarding consolation prizes - would it be a bad thing if every player who participated in the event (and reached the intended goal) would get an HM, with two of the HM prize options being the coal version of recent prize dragons? Sure, a couple of people might still chose CB golds, but most probably would go for the coals.

I think that would be overdoing it. If everyone knew there'd be at least one chance to get a CB Gold every year, the rarity (and breeding rates) of Golds would likely drop drastically--especially if people could just spend the first two years of participation getting the coal versions and then get a freebie CB Gold every year after.

 

Plus, giving everyone a yearly guarantee of getting the things that would normally require some of the hardest work to get--CB Metals--takes a great deal of the difficulty out of the game. I think everything should be obtainable with enough hard work, but I don't think everything should be handed out for free. (Sure, they'd have to participate in the event to get one... but an hour or so playing a fun game is hardly "work" compared to what people have to do to get CB Metals right now)

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Just my 2cents, yet again. My opinions and only my opinions.

 

DragonCave is supposed to be a fun game; Games in general are a way to escape from the stress and aggravation of Real Life. Many users express that the raffle has made the game less fun, even stressful, because so many people don't win.

 

.... So don't enter the raffle. Don't put so much hope on what you *know* is a very tiny little chance. Play DragonCave in a stress-free way; grab eggs from the AP or biomes, breed your adults, go on a naming spree (which I need to do soon), etc.

 

When I first started therapy I was told something that stuck with me: No one person or one event can "make" me react a certain way. I can react in a bad way because I don't *stop* myself from reacting that way, but the way I react to *anything* in my life is my choice. Most people forget that most of the time.

 

Yeah, okay, you didn't win the raffle. Tons and tons of other users didn't win. But hey, we had a *wonderful* Snow Event! That was fun! And because a certain number of people *did* win, we will eventually have more and more of those Prize Dragons in the game and a slightly better chance at getting a bred one.

 

I still think a "coal" type of consolation prize for everyone who entered the raffle is a great idea. I'm against everyone being about to get an HM, for the reasons angelicdragonpuppy stated.

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I think that would be overdoing it. If everyone knew there'd be at least one chance to get a CB Gold every year, the rarity (and breeding rates) of Golds would likely drop drastically--especially if people could just spend the first two years of participation getting the coal versions and then get a freebie CB Gold every year after.

 

Plus, giving everyone a yearly guarantee of getting the things that would normally require some of the hardest work to get--CB Metals--takes a great deal of the difficulty out of the game. I think everything should be obtainable with enough hard work, but I don't think everything should be handed out for free. (Sure, they'd have to participate in the event to get one... but an hour or so playing a fun game is hardly "work" compared to what people have to do to get CB Metals right now)

Thus far, we've had a raffle pattern of getting a new kind of prize dragon every other year. So, people would be able to choose two coals (male and female) of each prize breed before the next one came out. And since you can only get those coal prizes from the raffle, I believe that most people would choose them. Or hollies. ;-) Based on the impression that this pattern will be continued, even older players won't ever be able to have a breeding pair of each "coal prize" dragon there is.

 

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I very much agree with Amaterasu-sama's opinion, and with everyone who supports the suggestion of a "dully colored variant of the prize dragons".

 

The most frustrating thing about raffles (to me personally) is that non-winners will most likely never ever have an opportunity (unless they win next year xd.png ) to get a CB tinsel or shimmerscale and, thus, to work on all kinds of lineages with them. That's why a "dull" version of both tinsels and shimmers, released to the cave, would be so much appreciated!

 

DC is a game about collecting dragons, and the exclusivity of raffle prizes makes it impossible for people to collect dragons the way they want to do it (some only prefer CBs or/and low-gens) and as a result, the game is much less enjoyable and at times even stressful, as people have to put much effort into getting what they want :/ (and we know, that many, or to be more exact, the majority never gets their chance to trade for a 2d gen prize offspring).

 

Again, there a LOT of lineage-lovers, and saying "lineages isn't an official part of the game" wouldn't be correct, as many people only continue playing DC because they can work on their projects, collaborating with other players and sharing the joy of the process. The situation with the prizes, as it is today, doesn't allow lineage-lovers to fully enjoy the game as well.

 

I don't think releasing dully colored tin/shim sprite versions will dramatically devalue the prizes - look at the spriters' alts - they're still highly valuable even though all the other people have "normal" versions. There still will be many people willing to trade for a 2d gen prize offspring, I believe... It's just those who want the sprite itself (for lineage-building or collecting purposes) and not necessarily the "prize variant" will be in a much less disadvantageous position.

 

I wouldn't mind them so much if they were not associated to Holiday/new year and happened at a different time of the year

And one more thing - about raffles and the holiday they happen to almost coincide with (or even in a way are kind of a continuation of the holiday event..) - Christmas. This holiday is special in its own way and is associated with gifting and sharing the cheer. So raffles held at that time sort of ruin the whole atmosphere (even though they take place some time after Christmas). Amaterasu-sama pointed it out very well and this has always bugged me >.<

 

All in all a "normal" version of the prizes, available in the cave, seems like a good idea to me - for many reasons (stated above).

 

PS as for "increasing the number of prize dragons given in the raffle" or "having more than one raffle in a year" - many (or most?) prize-winner today are only interested in 2d gen swaps with other prize-winners. So even if more prizes are given out each year, prize-owners will most likely try to do more swaps as there will be more dragons to collect xd.png In the end, this may turn into a "vicious circle" - the more raffles are held, the more dragons are there to collect, the more swaps are needed to be done (->lists are always "closed") laugh.gif

 

PPS sorry if I wrote something wrong - never meant to sound offensive. Have recently finished working, so my head still hasn't cleared up after the working week xd.png Nice weekend to everyone!

 

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Can anyone explain to me, why exactly ALL people seem to need low gen prize dragons as their only option to build nice lineages going into the future? (or 2g hollies)

 

Also, marie has it totally right: did not win, so what?

i also want to note something about lotteries: yes, they give out small prizes. Typically, thats like 1% or less of the players. Also thing to note: european state owned lotteries do not make money for the state - they typically are non profit and sponsor with the excess money. The actual income for the state is only taxes on lottery tickets, nothing beyond that.

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Can anyone explain to me, why exactly ALL people seem to need low gen prize dragons as their only option to build nice lineages going into the future? (or 2g hollies)

 

Also, marie has it totally right: did not win, so what?

i also want to note something about lotteries: yes, they give out small prizes. Typically, thats like 1% or less of the players. Also thing to note: european state owned lotteries do not make money for the state - they typically are non profit and sponsor with the excess money. The actual income for the state is only taxes on lottery tickets, nothing beyond that.

Hmm I can't speak for everyone, but I'd like low gen prizes for lineages because the long lineages I have do not use the mates I'd like to have [i love bronze shimmer X red dorsal but good luck getting one of THOSE lineages...]

 

Also...many of us [me included] like even gens =) All the higher lineages out there are stair-step, a few spirals, but not many even gen ones. Lower gens make better even lineages from what I see

 

That's my reasons, others might have different ones *shrug*

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Can anyone explain to me, why exactly ALL people seem to need low gen prize dragons as their only option to build nice lineages going into the future? (or 2g hollies)

 

Also, marie has it totally right: did not win, so what?

The higher the generation, the less options available. No matter how much I want an even gen or spiral, a 7th gen stairstep isn't going to turn into one. It's also a matter of mate choice; if we can't get 2gs, we can never have a say in which mates are used, and always have to make do with lineages the elite players have chosen to start, even if none are the pairing we like.

 

The more limited the options in a collecting game the less fun it is--especially when the lines are available, just almost impossible to get if you don't own another CB Prize / aren't super popular. It's just a fun game, so why do we have to have super exclusives that, by definition, leave more people out of making those lineages than they include?

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Can anyone explain to me, why exactly ALL people seem to need low gen prize dragons as their only option to build nice lineages going into the future? (or 2g hollies)

 

Also, marie has it totally right: did not win, so what?

i also want to note something about lotteries: yes, they give out small prizes. Typically, thats like 1% or less of the players. Also thing to note: european state owned lotteries do not make money for the state - they typically are non profit and sponsor with the excess money. The actual income for the state is only taxes on lottery tickets, nothing beyond that.

Because despite what some people seem to think, the dragon's lineage is an important part of the dragon.

 

I like even gens, and the difficulty getting mates for an even gen doubles with each new generation. And there simply are not enough 2nd gens out there to make a 2 breed perfect checker of a higher generation. And even for the ones that are out there, getting mates is brutal!

 

I know, I've been trying:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/aErjA

 

Impressive, isn't it? Its not a "perfect" checker, I'm having to fill out the extra tinsel slots with Golds and Silvers. And I'm going to have to branch into Shimmers, too, and hope I can make connections to more 2nd gen owners (or even CB owners, but all my luck has been with the 2nd gen x Horse owners). But, despite having many CB metals with which to breed 2nd gens, getting 3rd gen non-inbred Tinsel x Something checkers is extremely hard.

 

Unless you are willing to go with a deadline, which has its own issues.

 

I just do not GET why some people INSIST that there is no difference between a upteenth gen, inbred, almost-every-dragon, messy lineaged Tinsel and a 2nd gen. There IS a difference, a very big difference. Especially in a game where half of the actions is to breed your dragons.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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