ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[Guillotine]

The precise problem is that it's like a lottery instead of the raffle it's called, and belittling us for wanting the population less controlled by <1% of the playerbase is hardly conducive to finding a solution. Also, saying "well stop offering so many" is not a solution either. Stop calling that a solution, because it's actively ignoring how trade works. (And yes, you are belittling us. STOP IT.)

 

Golds, Silvers, and Neglecteds are not anywhere near as ridiculously hard to get as a low-gen prize, which is why this topic exists in the first place. If they had similar levels of difficulty to obtain, this would be significantly less of an issue. Hell, if they were more like Hollies there'd be less of an issue!

Edited January 13, 2014 by Guillotine

[LaHaine]

Ok, lets make them like GoNs, unable to breed. The system is broken, lets make it so there is no economy behind them.

 

That solution isn't good either, everyone wants a piece of the cake, and that's the problem. There isn't enough cake for everyone.

 

The current system is a lottery, it works like a lottery, and there will always be some who win the grand prize, others who win little consolation prizes, and a mayority who win absolutely nothing.

 

Lets increase the number, lets make it 500, it will still not be enough.

A thousand!

Too few, we need more, there is someone down the corner who didn't win.

How many till everyone is happy?

 

 

 

Must be a cultural thing, but we have a very different opinion of what is considered rude. I'm just stating a fact. Shimmers would have never been priceless if there had not been a horde of people willing to bury tinsel owners under a pile of gold.

That without taking into consideration other facts which I'm keeping to myself, and the conclusion I've reached upon reading this thread.

Just because the system exists in real life, doesn't mean it is fair and that it should be applied to a game.

 

 

You didn't seem happy yourself with the current prices going for prizes. Wouldn't you agree on a drop of price? The only way to drop it, it's to increase low gen's population, in the way I see it

 

 

And I took it as rude because we are here defending something that would help people who can't afford low gens (something even you want - I can't afford them either, if you are curious) and you accuse us of being guilty of said high prices. That's not the case at all, I already explained how economy works and how it's not anyone's fault.

 

Also, saying "well stop offering so many" is not a solution either. Stop calling that a solution, because it's actively ignoring how trade works. (And yes, you are belittling us. STOP IT.)

 

Basically this, what Guillotine said

Edited January 13, 2014 by LaHaine

[DragonNighthowler]

You didn't seem happy yourself with the current prices going for prizes.

 

I frankly don't care about them, nor for silver and gold. They are little fun to me.

 

I would deffinitely not mortage my scroll through 3 months for a second gen of anything, nor for a CB gold.

 

And I took it as rude because we are here defending something that would help people who can't afford low gens

 

Your subjective opinion does not make it true. If you truly believe they are deffending that, I'll let you to it. I see something totally different.

 

something even you want

 

Lol! Say what?

I'm not stupid, if someone gave me one I would keep it, but I don't want it. I already said it, I have all tinsel/shimmers I want.

 

you accuse us of being guilty of said high prices

 

It was a general YOU, and it doesn't make it less true. Tinsels are expensive because people are willing to pay loads.

Edited January 13, 2014 by DragonNighthowler

[LaHaine]

I frankly don't care about them, nor for silver and gold. They are little fun to me.

 

I would deffinitely not mortage my scroll through 3 months for a second gen of anything, nor for a CB gold.

Sadly, not everyone thinks like that, there are people highly interested in them. And currently, yes, you almost need to mortage your scroll to be able to afford one or be extremely lucky and/or fast.

 

Your subjective opinion does not make it true. If you truly believe they are deffending that, I'll let you to it. I see something totally different.

 

That's a subjective opinion as well, then. But most people here realize we can't have both lots of prizes and high prices for prizes. Just a thought.

 

It was a general YOU, and it doesn't make it less true. Tinsels are expensive because people are willing to pay loads.

 

Prizes aren't expensive because people are willing to pay loads. Prizes are expensive because there are few cb prizes to userbase ratio.

 

Which is pretty sad, considering you, as a mass, have the power to manipulate everything, and yet, you don't.

 

Oh my dear, we could do so many wonderful things if things worked like that. Of course I agree with you there, no reason why I shouldn't agree - people united is the most beautiful thing and has brought many good things to real life. But do you really think it's possible to change how economy works? How would we start? Any ideas? Because changing everyone's minds towards the current prices would be, with no doubt, the best way to go, but it's easier said than done. So any suggestions that could help that happen are welcome.

Edited January 13, 2014 by LaHaine

[Naruhina_94]

What about add a little "worth" into these raffles?

I mean, I like that everybody has the opportunity to win the CB rarest dragon, even the new players! I think it's fair, because it's totally random.

Anyway there are people who hoped without success for 4 years... I understand these frustrating feelings, after all they have to stay quiet while every year their possibility to get a CB prize decrease with the amount of new players.

I don't think that this system is so deeply bad, anyway here are my suggestions:

 

- After a certain percentage of the game time that you played in DC you could request in a separate page in the site to have your CB Tinsel or Shimmer. This amount of time could be by TJ's discretion.

 

- Or even: add a new page into the site, named "Trading" where Gifts and Trades are showed. This would help even the players who don't use this official forum.

People who had gifted more dragon/eggs in a year will had a little more high possibility than others to win a Prize Dragon.

 

I'm not totally sure about these two options, there are probably many problems with them, that I didn't tought... Please ignore them if I said something stupid or already proposed.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[DragonNighthowler]

Sadly, not everyone thinks like that, there are people highly interested in them. And currently, yes, you almost need to mortage your scroll to be able to afford one or be extremely lucky and/or fast.

 

 

Prizes aren't expensive because people are willing to pay loads. Prizes are expensive because there are few cb prizes to userbase ratio.

True, most people actually don't. Living it real economy wise has that effect on you, I guess.

 

To be honest, I do not care what happens with the raffle. I'm not for, or agains. I don't have an opinion because it doesn't affect me the least. I knew I'd get shimmers eventually, long gen, messy perhaps, but I'd get them. Getting sprites it is not hard.

 

In the past I had gotten mad because I couldn't get a silver. I have cried for not being able to summon a GoN. And I have been annoyed that I didn't win the first raffle.

It was so I wasn't enjoying the game myself. Since this game is so versatile, and I have accepted my own limitations, I've made it so the game is the game I want to play, thus, what people consider important has little for me. It is the little things, that successful breeding, that perfect common chequered I've managed to breed, that common jewel I found in the AP, that make this a great game for me.

 

I am very versatile for changes. If the raffle is increased, I'll be happy. If not, I'm happy as well.

 

My issue with this thread is one completely different, but like I said, I'll keep that to myself.

 

How would we start? Any ideas?

 

Not thinking about personal gain. Simple as that. The whole thread is based on; "I want this."

Stop wanting it. Simple as that.

If many "yous" stop wanting it, there will be a totally different focus between tinsels. Have you realized how the community of lineage breeders simply enjoy sharing for the joy of sharing? That's because neither party is thinking on economic value. We are thinking on making the other person happy.

Edited January 13, 2014 by DragonNighthowler

[LaHaine]

True, most people actually don't. Living it real economy wise has that effect on you, I guess.

 

To be honest, I do not care what happens with the raffle. I'm not for, or agains. I don't have an opinion because it doesn't affect me the least. I knew I'd get shimmers eventually, long gen, messy perhaps, but I'd get them. Getting sprites it is not hard.

 

In the past I had gotten mad because I couldn't get a silver. I have cried for not being able to summon a GoN. And I have been annoyed that I didn't win the first raffle.

It was so I wasn't enjoying the game myself. Since this game is so versatile, and I have accepted my own limitations, I've made it so the game is the game I want to play, thus, what people consider important has little for me. It is the little things, that successful breeding, that perfect common chequered I've managed to breed, that common jewel I found in the AP, that make this a great game for me.

 

I am very versatile for changes. If the raffle is increased, I'll be happy. If not, I'm happy as well.

 

My issue with this thread is one completely different, but like I said, I'll keep that to myself.

I just want to say - If we are passive about it, nothing will change. You can have a passive position, that's fine, but it's good to have a group of people that want change. Sorry if you don't agree with this thread. It would help us more if you told us what is wrong about us, but you are free to keep it to you as well

 

Not thinking about personal gain. Simple as that. The whole thread is based on; "I want this."

Stop wanting it. Simple as that.

If many "yous" stop wanting it, there will be a totally different focus between tinsels. Have you realized how the community of lineage breeders simply enjoy sharing for the joy of sharing? That's because neither party is thinking on economic value. We are thinking on making the other person happy.

 

But how do you make someone stop wanting something? It's not as simple as you make it out to be, sadly. It would be as easy as turning toa rich person and saying "hey stop wanting all that money" and boom, their salary pays everyone's salary.

 

@Naruhina_94: I liked both suggestions. Maybe the second one a little bit more. The first one would generate a bit of drama, though it would be a kind gesture towards people who are here for years

Edited January 13, 2014 by LaHaine

[DragonNighthowler]

I just want to say - If we are passive about it, nothing will change. You can have a passive position, that's fine, but it's good to have a group of people that want change. Sorry if you don't agree with this thread. It would help us more if you told us what is wrong about us, but you are free to keep it to you as well

You think so?

 

My country started a house market bubble because prizes started rising. Actually, the bubble goes back to 1970, but the big thing began in 1999.

My parents bought a house valued in 120,000 bucks, which was a bit for the time, only to see it reach 500,000 in a few months!

By the time hell broke loose, that house was valued in close to a million eurodollars. We are talking in a span o 8 years, it close to cuadrupled its price.

 

Why did this happen? Because people kept buying houses, inflating their prices and selling them back to the point there were houses where nobody had lived ever, and which had been changing from hand to hand, serving as a sort of large money building machine.

People were willing to toss money into those houses because they believed the prize would never fall.

 

People who wanted to actually LIVE in a house were forced to pay the market prize because the general consensus was that houses always went up, never down, which meant you had to hurry.

 

Mortage limit went from 25 years to 50 years. Retirement in my country is at 65 years, which pretty much meant you'd be retired, and still paying the mortage (which is pretty impossible since retirement money in my country is very low). We'll see what happens in 30 years with those mortages, but it won't be pretty.

 

Anyways, what happened? What was obvious. Hell broke loose. People had to contract abusive and very expensive mortages, which meant they had no money left to waste on service sector (the one most affected by the crisis). That meant people went unemployed, and factories started to close.

People could not buy cars, which is a sector that viewed drops of 50% less sales yearly. More people went unemployed, and so on.

Houses reached such a price that, united with the increasing unemployment rate, people were unable to afford them any more, so they stopped selling. Since everything concerning houses is a money floating on pure speculation, not something real, banks were also affected, and house owners grew desperate.

 

Thus prices started going down.

 

In a single year, I've seen my house go from 145,000 to 80,000 dollars.

 

All of this happened simply because people stopped buying.

Sure, they didn't stop buying because they had grown a new brain cell and suddenly realized how ridiculous that whole speculation fever was (the aftermath would have been obvious to a 5 year old), they stopped buying because money dried. But it worked.

In a couple of years, as economy recovers, people will once again be able to afford a house.

 

ut how do you make someone stop wanting something? It's not as simple as you make it out to be, sadly. It would be as easy as turning toa rich person and saying "hey stop wanting all that money" and boom, their salary pays everyone's salary.

 

It's a very spiritual thing, I guess. Transcending the dimension of materialism to appreciate life's little things, or viewing the beauty in other things. I guess you also have to go through certain experiences to appreciate what life has to offer.

As individualist consumism is such a deep rooted cultural thing, it will be hard, but not impossible.

Edited January 13, 2014 by DragonNighthowler

[Kith]

I wouldn't mind if they bred and traded like commons, but it would appear that I'm in the minority on this one.

[Guillotine]

That'd be nice, but TJ appears adamant about having a very small base population, which makes low-gens rather rare regardless of breed rarity.

 

Not thinking about personal gain. Simple as that. The whole thread is based on; "I want this."

Stop wanting it. Simple as that.

If many "yous" stop wanting it, there will be a totally different focus between tinsels. Have you realized how the community of lineage breeders simply enjoy sharing for the joy of sharing? That's because neither party is thinking on economic value. We are thinking on making the other person happy.

"Stop wanting it" is not a solution to the problem and will never be a solution to a problem. Just because you're happy with an extremely passive response to not getting what you consider to be desirable doesn't mean that I consider it palateable, especially given that being passive does nothing to change anything. It also doesn't excuse calling people selfish for wanting something that should not be as limited as it is to be more widely available. Right now, all you're doing is insulting people for not wanting to lie down and accept the situation as it is, and it's getting really frustrating because you're not contributing anything.

 

And I cannot express how utterly misguided comparing a completely free pixel game to any actual economic circumstances is, particularly when this bubble has gone on for almost half the game's total lifespan.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Guillotine

[DragonNighthowler]

Right now, all you're doing is insulting people for not wanting to lie down and accept the situation as it is, and it's getting really frustrating because you're not contributing anything.

 

I invite you to report me if that is what you consider I'm doing. Insulting is a grave thing indeed, enough to be issued a warning.

 

Please, go ahead and let mods decice whether I have insulted people and not contributing with my opinions simply because you do not agree with my view.

Edited January 13, 2014 by DragonNighthowler

[LaHaine]

I think we should calm down, we don't want the thread closed and people irritated. It's already a somewhat controversial thread

[Sheriziya]

I think we should calm down, we don't want the thread closed and people irritated. It's already a somewhat controversial thread

I totally agree with you

Well, gotta go,b ack to work. I'll see you all later!

[Naruhina_94]

ok, I think I should repost my last message since it has been covered by others not strictly related to this thread:

 

What about add a little "worth" into these raffles?

I mean, I like that everybody has the opportunity to win the CB rarest dragon, even the new players! I think it's fair, because it's totally random.

Anyway there are people who hoped without success for 4 years... I understand these frustrating feelings, after all they have to stay quiet while every year their possibility to get a CB prize decrease with the amount of new players.

I don't think that this system is so deeply bad, anyway here are my suggestions:

 

- After a certain percentage of the game time that you played in DC you could request in a separate page in the site to have your CB Tinsel or Shimmer. This amount of time could be by TJ's discretion.

 

- Or even: add a new page into the site, named "Trading" where Gifts and Trades are showed. This would help even the players who don't use this official forum.

People who had gifted more dragon/eggs in a year will had a little more high possibility than others to win a Prize Dragon.

 

I'm not totally sure about these two options, there are probably many problems with them, that I didn't tought... Please ignore them if I said something stupid or already proposed.

 

thankyou LaHaine for the support!

 

Please, can we talk about this? I would like the first one, even if it's quite difficult to do in this system. I think that some kind of reward for being into this game for a long time should exist, in fact there are many new trophies suggestion... I think that a CB shimmer/tinsel would be a good one for those who really wanted it

It could be requested only if you had NO other CB prize, in my opinion.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Kith]

First suggestion: I'm not sure what the point of having a raffle would be if you could just request the prize after a certain amount of time on the site. Do you mean for that to replace the raffle system we have currently, or in addition to it?

 

Second suggestion: Not really certain it would help those who don't use the forum all that much, as a lot of the trading is done via forum activity (trade posts, etc). It would seem to skew the likelihood farther in the direction of forum goers than it is currently, in fact. Also, the "only rewarding certain playstyles" argument gets brought up a lot when speaking of game-wide changes, so that's something to consider as well.

 

Not that I necessarily mind a place where trades and transfers can be tracked, but having it apply to your chances to win is what I'm dubious about.

[whitebaron]

Golds, Silvers, and Neglecteds are not anywhere near as ridiculously hard to get as a low-gen prize, which is why this topic exists in the first place. If they had similar levels of difficulty to obtain, this would be significantly less of an issue. Hell, if they were more like Hollies there'd be less of an issue!

If you can get gold, silvers and neglecteds, you can get low gen prizes.

 

One 2g that I traded for a friend (hi ponytales), cost us a combined value of 2 bred tinsels, 2 cb papers and 1 cb metal.

Another I got as a gift.

two others I traded with cb metals for. But it was nowhere near "it has to be 4+".

[Naruhina_94]

First suggestion: I'm not sure what the point of having a raffle would be if you could just request the prize after a certain amount of time on the site. Do you mean for that to replace the raffle system we have currently, or in addition to it?

 

Second suggestion: Not really certain it would help those who don't use the forum all that much, as a lot of the trading is done via forum activity (trade posts, etc). It would seem to skew the likelihood farther in the direction of forum goers than it is currently, in fact. Also, the "only rewarding certain playstyles" argument gets brought up a lot when speaking of game-wide changes, so that's something to consider as well.

 

Not that I necessarily mind a place where trades and transfers can be tracked, but having it apply to your chances to win is what I'm dubious about.

In addition to it. The winners would still be the ones for years to have them, this suggestione is good to don't make these "Years' becoming "ever".

Also it will helps if the raffle will stop after some Years or even if the winners stop to play for some reasons.

 

Also it would be a reward for old players

[Sirithiliel]

Hnmm...well I managed to grab a CB silver two months ago, and was gifted a CB gold by a really generous forum member, and a neglected I was able to get in a trade...but I definitely know I've been unable to get a trade for a 2nd gen.

 

But then again, I can't CATCH Cb metallics [other than that silver I was super lucky to nab] and I can't MAKE neglecteds, so perhaps your statement is true in that if you are reliably able to catch cb metallics often/make neglecteds, then you can get a 2nd gen prize =)

 

But not everyone that has CB metallics or a neglected on their scroll got them by their own doing, many of us get gifted or are offered a reasonable trade for them. So I think the statement needs to be adjusted to if you can catch cb metals or make a neglected, you can get a 2nd gen prize =)

 

I don't know. I'm beginning to think I'm going to cease trying to get the lineages I"d love to have, and just 'settle' for what I have now, because I definitely don't need the frustration over seeing some beautiful prizeXmate combo that I love, and get told over and over my dragons are worthless and unless I produce X amount of unattainable things [for me to attain at least], I will never have it

[MyMelody]

So, let's make a point.

The raffle is done and we're all waiting for a lovely looking, hopefully short, offspring.

The cute dragons have to grow and each reliable source take it's time and try to get to an first born, in a week.

 

I've read a lot of comments about "is it a fair game?" or "are this enough prices?" and things like that. My opinion: gifts are always fair!

We don't need more, if we want to earn a extremly rare dragon, once upon a time.

 

Only one thing won't get out of my mind:

shure, the lucky owners of such a dragon are allowed to ask whatever they want. But what's the opinion, of trading one from this special offspring for a hatched bronze scroll or the evil monkey business I get through with the first Shimmer-Babies?

Of course, I traded my first for multiple dragons and if someone like to, I try to catch cave born dragons, common or metallic, even a ND. Some of these specials should get its price.^^

 

Some specials are hard to breed, other never like to and again: this is luck!

 

Now, if my collected specials love to spend a baby, I enjoy to trade and give presents, because the most dragons like to breed again.

Take a look at the book of records or the listed records about *breeding in a row* and count for yourself, what one dragon could happened through. There is no need to stress your luck or trade one for umpteen. There are players with problems by getting one metallic, since years.

For me, it seems to be not fair, to give somebody a hard time with my luck by command several wishes and things they all dreamed off. Particularly, if I read how the players thought about a game and how it can control the RealLife.

*noticed some really memorable comparisons and many depressed comments*

 

Please, have fun!

Edited January 13, 2014 by MyMelody

[Thuban]

(snip)

That's not what I said. It's the possibility to make lineages we are talking about here. What if all owners refused to breed their prizes with a certain breed? That line would never be possible for any of us even if we wanted to create it

 

(snip)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have had so so many prize owners tell me they absolutely will not even consider breeding to balloons, despite the fact that I will gladly trade for every single fail baby in the process. Several people still owe me second gens, but are refusing to breed them because "balloons are ugly and take too long to breed". Doesn't phase me any though.. I worked hard for the lines I got, and enjoy gifting them out to people. I am absolutely grateful to the few owners who were willing to take the dive and breed them for me.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

Honestly, the raffle seems to get a little better every year. We are always going to want /more/ no matter what happens here. I'm liking the numbers im seeing for this years prizes. Granted, they could stand to be a smidge higher, but its better than it was. Im not sure if i prefer the earn one ticket, or take time and earn more tickets route more though. Having multiple chances makes it more fun.. however, it usually means that the event tied to it is going to be more difficult.. and there just isn't enough time between school and holiday stuff for the kids to finish the events for themselves. One entry is better for them.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Whoa this thread exploded over night!

 

In regards to wanting Prizes to be common; no, I don't want them to be common. I want them to be rare but /obtainable/. CB Metals are darn hard to get, but they're doable. When 4+ of those--the rarest things one can naturally catch from the cave--won't trade for a 2g Prize, it suggests low gen Prizes aren't just rare, they're grossly absurdly rare.

 

If they were "common" enough that the standard trading rate was more along the lines of 1-2 CB Metals, I think trading would be more balanced and people would feel more optimistic about getting them. Having a dragon who's offspring can still regularly command one super rare shiny per egg is still plenty of a reward for the winners.

Edited January 13, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

The precise problem is that it's like a lottery instead of the raffle it's called

The legal difference between raffles and lotteries is that lotteries may only be operated by the state, and raffles are operated by an organization, and regulated by the state.

 

The difference in STRUCTURE is that in an actual, lottery if two people draw the same number they have to share the prize associated with that number. Therefore what we have just had was unquestionably a RAFFLE, not a lottery. (Unless someone knows of someone here who is sharing their new shimmer ?)

 

Just saying, as I begin to get tired of people saying it was a lottery, OK ? It wasn't even LIKE a lottery, as no-one could possibly get stuck with sharing a prize.

[Amazon_warrior]

I'm trying to get the image of Time-Share Tinsels out of my head now.

[Saami]

I see these suggestions about not offering such outrageous things for low gen shim mers and tins and I agree! I absolutely totally agree. I don't like the pricing and so I don't offer on the things that I'd like to have. And it's not even having the low gen for the sake of having it. Not for me. If I ever got my hands on a low gen shimmer or tin, it'd be to trade for what I'm really after (which you can see in my sig, if you're curious). I've got the sprites, I don't need a low gen for any kind of scroll completion. I've never felt entitled to a prize if I lose and I've never thought it was something I deserved. I've set what I'm willing to pay for certain things and I'm not going to offer anything more, because to be honest, the trading market is just ridiculous.

 

But there's a flip side to 'not offering because you don't agree with the price'. You set the price that something is worth to you and you get no offers at all. So it's a lose/lose for those of us who aren't here to be hardcore traders. I'm not asking for things to be given to me. But I'd like for it to be in my reach, which I thought was the point of the game.

 

idk I'm rambling, does any of this make any sense?

[Princess_Pinkie]

You think so?

 

My country started a house market bubble because prizes started rising. Actually, the bubble goes back to 1970, but the big thing began in 1999.

My parents bought a house valued in 120,000 bucks, which was a bit for the time, only to see it reach 500,000 in a few months!

By the time hell broke loose, that house was valued in close to a million eurodollars. We are talking in a span o 8 years, it close to cuadrupled its price.

 

Why did this happen? Because people kept buying houses, inflating their prices and selling them back to the point there were houses where nobody had lived ever, and which had been changing from hand to hand, serving as a sort of large money building machine.

People were willing to toss money into those houses because they believed the prize would never fall.

 

People who wanted to actually LIVE in a house were forced to pay the market prize because the general consensus was that houses always went up, never down, which meant you had..

 

 

 

It's a very spiritual thing, I guess. Transcending the dimension of materialism to appreciate life's little things, or viewing the beauty in other things. I guess you also have to go through certain experiences to appreciate what life has to offer.

i really think that you're losing sight of the fact that this is a collecting game and not real life. all of your points and accusations so far have been in the attitude of "youre the one that wants the prize, stop wanting it. i know because all this mortage blah blah blah". thats nice and all but this is very very different from all that. people will never just stop wanting low gen prizes. it is mental nature to want things. everyone wants something. there is no one on this earth who is 100% satisfied with their life. and this is a game, meant for entertainment and to play as a hobby. collecting games should be able to be fun to EVERYONE. people who dont even have forum accounts, people who have just started, people who can never afford a 2nd gen. and they will all want one. this problem will not simply go away and youre definitely not helping by coming into this thread and acting like youre better than everyone else just because you dont want metals or prizes and you are the minority.

 

this is a thread to improve the raffle, not bash everyone because you dont like what everyone else does.

 

i still think that the multiclutching is one of the best ideas. this thread honestly seems kind of in a rut because of how scarcely TJ even looks at this thread and then responds to one thing.