Change the Holidays

[~Kat~]

Take out the "Christmas" in those dragon's descriptions. Have a "Winter Celebration" or somesuch, with NO religious favoritism. That means completely unbiased. Cooking events, gingerbread houses, making snowmen that our dragons can play with, etc etc. Nothing that involves any other religion.

 

Same with Halloween, Easter, etc etc. For Easter, all we have is a colorful, beautiful egg-hunt, so that's already completely separate from anything religious. For Halloween, we have trick-or-treat hunts, and a vaguely-Hallowen-related dragon. Again, nothing religious.

 

I don't think we have to completely change the events MOST users love so much, simply make sure there are no ties to any religion. Which is pretty much already done, except for the Christmas reference.

What next, if we take out Christmas? I am not sure where TJ is from, have never looked. Is he an American? If he is, I am sure he did not name anything Christmas to upset others at all, or the artists either as I do not keep up with that side of it.

 

But when I said what next, will people get upset if some of us that own dragons, with what we name our dragons personally, like Christmas Spirit? Will we be told what dragons we own, what we can not name them?

 

I really do not believe there is anything completely unbiased, as some one from any walk of life can say it is biased!!

 

Before, no one could have cared less, now look at all that has been posted.

[Pixxelation]

~Kat~, that's off-topic; people can name dragons whatever they want. If it's offensive, PM a mod. And I've cared since my first year. I just never posted it. There's a big difference between nobody caring until now, and nobody saying they care until now.

[~Kat~]

~Kat~, that's off-topic; people can name dragons whatever they want. If it's offensive, PM a mod. And I've cared since my first year. I just never posted it. There's a big difference between nobody caring until now, and nobody saying they care until now.

To you they can name dragons anything they want, and you do not care. But what if someone does mind. I guess they can start another topic about it.

 

I did not mean to be offensive at all about what I posted. Just giving a wider scope on the subject.

 

Liike I said before, I do not care. I am going to play catching dragons, as it is addictive and I love this game.

 

See you care and have just posted what you did to me. Hey, that is ok, I do not mind. We are all just telling it how we feel.

[MedievalMystic]

Take out the "Christmas" in those dragon's descriptions. Have a "Winter Celebration" or somesuch, with NO religious favoritism. That means completely unbiased. Cooking events, gingerbread houses, making snowmen that our dragons can play with, etc etc. Nothing that involves any other religion.

 

This seems just a tad...extreme...to me. I understand where people are coming from as far as not wanting someone's religion or beliefs forced down their throats, but at the same time, the people on that side of the fence seem to want to totally eradicate something that a lot of other people, maybe TJ himself, hold dear, simply because they don't believe in it, and that doesn't seem right to me either. There must be a better middle ground somewhere.

 

 

 

To you they can name dragons anything they want, and you do not care. But what if someone does mind.

 

Then with all due respect, that's too damn bad. There is such a thing as taking something just a leetle too far. If someone gets offended by some random name on a pixel, that's their problem. It's not going to be mine. I'm all about being accepting and tolerant, and trying not to step on toes, but I'm not going to spend every waking moment sweating bullets over every little thing either in case it *might* offend someone. Somebody's always going to be offended, no matter what.

Edited January 20, 2013 by MedievalMystic

[Pixxelation]

Well, naming isn't going to change. It wouldn't make much sense. It's the site officially being Christmas only that bugs me.

[~Kat~]

Well, naming isn't going to change. It wouldn't make much sense. It's the site officially being Christmas only that bugs me.

I am sorry that the site officially being Christmas upsets you, I really am.

 

But how do you please everyone? What if I said that not naming it Christmas upset me?

 

So see, you can not please everyone.

 

Of course again, I do not care what it is named.

 

Hugs.

[skauble]

There are two arguments here that I don't get.

 

One is the "It's just pixels so it's not important" argument. But if that's the way we feel (and, to be honest, that's mostly how I feel), then why not let that one word switch to something like "holiday". If it's not something to get upset about, then why get upset if it's different?

 

The other is "It might upset someone else if we change it"...

 

So, we are worried about people having an issue with it, but we're worried about possible, currently hypothetical people and not the ones we know are real? No one seemed particularly upset that TJ refers to it as "holiday" in the forum thread, so I'm not sure why we're all assuming there will be an issue.

 

Besides, all of this jumping on "political correctness" kinda seems to be missing the part where PieMaster said that they'd like to possibly introduce dragons inspired by other traditions and that's what might be problematic - having dragons influenced by other traditions still classified as "Christmas" dragons.

 

Frankly, it's a very small change that can open up quite a lot of creative dragon options, IMO.

[MedievalMystic]

then why not let that one word switch to something like "holiday". If it's not something to get upset about, then why get upset if it's different?

 

 

You're talking about changing a universal, long ingrained and much loved tradition, celebrated by a huge number of people, and one of them might be TJ, so yeah, quite a few people would probably be in an uproar if it was changed. And what if it is TJ? If I owned a site and worshipped the devil and had demonic images and what not all over the place, then I'd expect the people that chose to come to the site and sign up to roll with it, accept it, and deal with it. I certainly wouldn't appreciate them asking me to change something I personally held dear to suit them. To me, this is all down to what TJ himself believes and celebrates. That's what matters here, not what any of us might or might not like to see happen. This is personal, so if TJ celebrates Christmas, and wants Christmas here, then that's what it is.

 

Should other beliefs and cultures be celebrated as well? Of course, I think so. Would I, and some others, mind if TJ changed it to a 'Winter' event? No, not at all. But a whole lot of other people would, so who do you please? Again, somebody's going to end up pissed off one way or the other with something like this.

Edited January 20, 2013 by MedievalMystic

[Obscure_Trash]

If we were removing Christmas-themed events and dragons, I would understand where "removing the word Christmas changes the spirit of the holiday" is coming from, but as is, I don't. There could still be Christmas dragons. There could also just be a chance for neat blue and silver/white themed dragon for Hanukkah one year.

[Pixxelation]

It shouldn't offend anyone. It would just be making the site more neutral, removing the cultural references the site does not like.

[HeatherMarie]

If we were removing Christmas-themed events and dragons, I would understand where "removing the word Christmas changes the spirit of the holiday" is coming from, but as is, I don't. There could still be Christmas dragons. There could also just be a chance for neat blue and silver/white themed dragon for Hanukkah one year.

But it can't be called a Hanukkah dragon. 'Cause that would be offensive/biased just like "Christmas" is.

 

I personally see NO problem with the way things are now. But if the word Christmas is going to be removed because some people get offended, then it has to stand for all dragons. Blue and silver/white themed dragons could look pretty awesome, but they can't have any name that references that particular religion. Otherwise it's just hypocritical.

[Obscure_Trash]

But it can't be called a Hanukkah dragon. 'Cause that would be offensive/biased just like "Christmas" is.

 

I personally see NO problem with the way things are now. But if the word Christmas is going to be removed because some people get offended, then it has to stand for all dragons. Blue and silver/white themed dragons could look pretty awesome, but they can't have any name that references that particular religion. Otherwise it's just hypocritical.

Christmas and Hanukkah dragons - I really meant Christmas-themed and Hanukkah-themed dragons. ^^

[hazeh]

But it can't be called a Hanukkah dragon. 'Cause that would be offensive/biased just like "Christmas" is.

 

I personally see NO problem with the way things are now. But if the word Christmas is going to be removed because some people get offended, then it has to stand for all dragons. Blue and silver/white themed dragons could look pretty awesome, but they can't have any name that references that particular religion. Otherwise it's just hypocritical.

Yeah, I think when we reference Chanukah dragons we're just titling that way to show the difference from the Christmas, not that they'd be actually referenced as Chanukah dragons on site.

[~Kat~]

Someone is always unhappy. You can not make everyone happy, except the people who do not care like me and others that feel the same as I do. It just is not worth it over a game of DRAGONS.

 

It is the others that care what it is called or the theme that are having the problem.

[Tawanda001]

I don't see any problem with 'holiday dragon'. A Hanukkah dragon, a Christmas dragon, a Kwanza dragon, etc. they could all equally be called holiday dragons?

 

"Holiday dragons are a very mysterious breed. They are only seen during winter, and even then it is hard to catch a glimpse of one. They are responsible for the general cheer that spreads during the holidays. In essence, they are the “Spirits of the season.”

 

I wonder how many players would give a second thought to such a small change

Edited January 20, 2013 by Tawanda001

[Shadowdrake]

Well there is still that case of the "generic Christmas description" so unless the past Christmas dragons get actual, unique descriptions (which all other dragons already have; Halloween dragons don't even have Halloween in their description and only the '09 Valentine dragons reference valentine's day) there'll be a visible difference between the Christmas dragons and any other cultural reference dragons.

 

Personally I think most of this concentration on Christmas could be alleviated by just replacing the generic description with unique descriptions without needing to specifically have "Christmas" in there, so there isn't that much of an emphasis on Christmas. IRL, there's a lot of people saying "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas. Heck, leave Hollies with the original description as the Spirits of Christmas if you want, but we don't need all of them to be Christmas dragons.

[Sir Barton]

It shouldn't offend anyone. It would just be making the site more neutral, removing the cultural references the site does not like.

The only problem is that going off the poll the site does like things they way they stand. At least currently it is still the majority that don't want a change. Also, as I saw someone else say, the forum represents a small percentage of total players so how do we know what the site as a whole truly wishes?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The other is "It might upset someone else if we change it"...

 

So, we are worried about people having an issue with it, but we're worried about possible, currently hypothetical people and not the ones we know are real? No one seemed particularly upset that TJ refers to it as "holiday" in the forum thread, so I'm not sure why we're all assuming there will be an issue.

 

Besides, all of this jumping on "political correctness" kinda seems to be missing the part where PieMaster said that they'd like to possibly introduce dragons inspired by other traditions and that's what might be problematic - having dragons influenced by other traditions still classified as "Christmas" dragons.

 

Frankly, it's a very small change that can open up quite a lot of creative dragon options, IMO.

Hypothetical people? Hardly. Look at the poll up there--80% of people would rather there not be any change (and the majority of that percent is dead set on there not being a change), while only 14% would prefer a change. That seems to me like you'd be upsetting a lot more people if you changed things then if you left them as-is.

 

Also I imagine if there were different dragons, they'd get different names. There's already been talk of asking the creators of Christmas dragons to give their critters unique descriptions. If that was done, the current Christmas dragons could keep the generic Christmas description + the unique bit while future dragons, if they were based around a different theme, could probably just have the unique bit.

 

I know that people are unhappy that it's not their particular culture being represented, but please look at it from the other side as well. As someone who's seen political correctness reach huge levels of absurdity (like, people can put up 'holiday trees' but get lawsuits if they dare call them 'Christmas trees'), seeing people cry for a change to something that's been on DC for five years--and also suggest in the process that those who want it left alone are being hateful towards them--is a twist in the ol' heart.

 

Again, I've been playing this game for four years, and in all that time, there was never a fuss about political correctness. A few dragons had the word Christmas attached to them, and the events were Christmas-themed, but no one fretted about it (at least that I ever saw), and there were general feelings of peace and joy and good will towards man and DC. And now there's this thread and a ton of hurt feelings regarding something that's been pretty serene for years. I just wish things would be left alone...

[hazeh]

Again, just because it wasn't brought up before does not mean the problem did not exist.

For five years DC had Christmas-only themed events and dragons. That's FIVE YEARS our users have felt left out from an event that should encompass the entire community.

 

That, there, is wrong. And we should be doing something to help fix it instead of refusing to make even minor tweaks that would have no impact whatsoever on game play, but instead help improve morale for everyone involved.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Zovesta]

The issue wasn't found, it was already there, people just remembered to make a problem out of this now.

Every morning I wake up and say to myself, "Hey, remember that thing I saw awhile ago, me? I'm going to make a problem out of that."

 

I seriously have no clue why people are being boulders about this. What, exactly, is wrong with changing the name and event to something less Christmas-y and more fantasy that is original, with inspirations drawing from all sorts of Wintery holidays?

 

Please, I would appreciate it if someone responded to this, as I genuinely don't understand. Look! I'm even using proper grammar for this!

 

And I've already ready the first, what, nine-ten pages of this topic and I'd really rather not read the next five filled with the same things rehashed to look for an answer to this.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I seriously have no clue why people are being boulders about this. What, exactly, is wrong with changing the name and event to something less Christmas-y and more fantasy that is original, with inspirations drawing from all sorts of Wintery holidays?

Because I am tired of seeing political correctness bulldoze over things that have been the way they are for years. The PC attitude has gone from genuinely protecting people to going out of its way to tear down innocent traditions and largely-enjoyed celebrations. It doesn't need to creep on to DC, too.

[skauble]

 

You're talking about changing a universal, long ingrained and much loved tradition, celebrated by a huge number of people, and one of them might be TJ, so yeah, quite a few people would probably be in an uproar if it was changed.  And what if it is TJ?  If I owned a site and worshipped the devil and had demonic images and what not all over the place, then I'd expect the people that chose to come to the site and sign up to roll with it, accept it, and deal with it.  I certainly wouldn't appreciate them asking me to change something I personally held dear to suit them.  To me, this is all down to what TJ himself believes and celebrates.  That's what matters here, not what any of us might or might not like to see happen.  This is personal, so if TJ celebrates Christmas, and wants Christmas here, then that's what it is.

Obviously if TJ wants to keep it as Christmas he will. Like you said, it's his site. But since he was here, he didn't close the thread at the time, and said this:

 

I'm pretty sure I consistently referred to it as the 2012 Holiday Event.

Then I don't think we're offending him or anything with the very idea of changing this.

 

Should other beliefs and cultures be celebrated as well?  Of course, I think so.  Would I, and some others,  mind if TJ changed it to a 'Winter' event?  No, not at all.  But a whole lot of other people would, so who do you please?  Again, somebody's going to end up pissed off one way or the other with something like this.

 

But...it already is a winter event. The only Christmas part was that all the dragons are called Christmas dragons. That was the point - that changing the name actually brings it in line with the event - which is "holiday" - and then it wouldn't be awkward if there were dragons that were influenced more by other things.

 

Hypothetical people? Hardly. Look at the poll up there--80% of people would rather there not be any change (and the majority of that percent is dead set on there not being a change), while only 14% would prefer a change. That seems to me like you'd be upsetting a lot more people if you changed things then if you left them as-is.

 

Also I imagine if there were different dragons, they'd get different names. There's already been talk of asking the creators of Christmas dragons to give their critters unique descriptions. If that was done, the current Christmas dragons could keep the generic Christmas description + the unique bit while future dragons, if they were based around a different theme, could probably just have the unique bit.

 

I know that people are unhappy that it's not their particular culture being represented, but please look at it from the other side as well. As someone who's seen political correctness reach huge levels of absurdity (like, people can put up 'holiday trees' but get lawsuits if they dare call them 'Christmas trees'), seeing people cry for a change to something that's been on DC for five years--and also suggest in the process that those who want it left alone are being hateful towards them--is a twist in the ol' heart.

 

Again, I've been playing this game for four years, and in all that time, there was never a fuss about political correctness. A few dragons had the word Christmas attached to them, and the events were Christmas-themed, but no one fretted about it (at least that I ever saw), and there were general feelings of peace and joy and good will towards man and DC. And now there's this thread and a ton of hurt feelings regarding something that's been pretty serene for years. I just wish things would be left alone...

Honestly, I'd like to see the OPs final proposal with a new poll. I'm not sure something like:

 

I suggest we call the winter holiday dragons "Holiday dragons" like we do here with the holiday event, so that we can introduce a variety of themes that give us even more options for future dragon design.

 

As for the political correctness thing, I don't doubt everyone's good faith in this debate, but I'm going to say this because it's become a recurrent theme of this thread that I think it somewhat derailing it.

 

At some point, the push back against political correctness comes down to one of two things - A. I think that person is lying about what they're saying concerns them, or B. I believe they have an issue with it, but I don't have that issue so I don't see the need to have a dialogue about it.

 

Because there are actually perfectly civil ways of telling someone that you think their suggestion is completely wrong without implying that they're being melodramatic whiners and the 'everyone is ridiculously politically correct' argument edges pretty close to that implication, and I'd hate to see us end up there.

[~Kat~]

Because I am tired of seeing political correctness bulldoze over things that have been the way they are for years. The PC attitude has gone from genuinely protecting people to going out of its way to tear down innocent traditions and largely-enjoyed celebrations. It doesn't need to creep on to DC, too.

I see your point.

[hazeh]

Because I am tired of seeing political correctness bulldoze over things that have been the way they are for years. The PC attitude has gone from genuinely protecting people to going out of its way to tear down innocent traditions and largely-enjoyed celebrations. It doesn't need to creep on to DC, too.

So you'd rather bulldoze over people who just want to make the largely celebrated traditions more enjoyable for all people of the community?

[Zovesta]

Because I am tired of seeing political correctness bulldoze over things that have been the way they are for years. The PC attitude has gone from genuinely protecting people to going out of its way to tear down innocent traditions and largely-enjoyed celebrations. It doesn't need to creep on to DC, too.

Aw shiz man, it's not just about being PC, it's about the whole thing making sense, too. And, of course, the red/green combo is getting boring year after year. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer a festive, interesting dragon that takes inspiration from different things year after year over yet another Christmas dragon.

 

And obviously someone was upset about it, or they wouldn't have made the topic.

 

Why is everyone so dead-set against change like it'll destroy everything they know and love? >_>

 

 

 

whhhoooopps guyyys remember the fog we had way back when and the sprites had to be changed because of copyright issues

 

i hate change let's just change it all back right now

 

I'd just like to say that I actually do entirely understand your viewpoint, angelicdragonpuppy. And I do mean that. I think being PC has gone way out of hand nowadays to where you can't say a single thing without offending ~someone~ when the whole point of it is just to be able to actually live in this planet, communicating with other people, without offending them. That, to me, is the point of being PC. I'm not speaking up for this idea to be PC, not really. I'm speaking up for it so more people can enjoy it, and so Dragon Cave can have a fun, festive holiday that fits a more medieval setting.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Zovesta