Change the Holidays

[KageSora]

I don't personally get the whole "feeling excluded" thing.

 

As I see it, there are two Christmases. The religious holiday celebrating the birth of Christ, and the commercialized to hell and back excuse/requirement for buying gifts for people you like (and some you don't, to keep the peace) and for sharing goodwill with your fellow humans.

 

The second is clearly what's celebrated on DC, not the religious version.

 

I'm not religious, and generally get very uncomfortable with being forced to deal with religious things. But it doesn't bother me at all, because the Christmas we have here is so far removed from the celebration of Christ's birth that it's not the same thing at all.

 

 

That said, I'm not opposed to a name change and perhaps a SLIGHT date change, as well as more generic wintery-themed stuff or including other holidays.

 

I am, however, against a total revamp.

 

And, also, so long as I get me my egg hunting (or something of a similar, fun nature) I'm cool with a change there, too.

 

And as long as we keep having wonderful dragons. And fun events. Subtle shifts would be the way to go, though. Too much change too quickly tends to be responded to with a knee-jerk reaction.

 

But, if it is changed, I say it should be an entirely invented celebration. Perhaps it could draw some traditions or inspiration from real-world celebrations, but it would need to be an original holiday rather than just defaulting to some other potentially religious (or otherwise offensive to somebody) celebration.

[hazeh]

Shiny was pretty clear to me, PF13. Have more holiday inspirations than just Christmas, and make the Christmas ref a little more vague, as the whole point is to make something fun for everyone to enjoy, in spite of any religion.

 

I could, of course, be interpreting it wrong.

That's exactly what I was saying. I never said we couldn't have those things, PF13. I just pointed out that they are Christmas related, despite what you feel (or not) religiously. I'm calling for an inclusive event where there are more options that connect to people that live beyond Christmas related culture.

 

 

Edit: For some reason, people keep getting the impression that we're going for a complete change up of the holiday celebration or the complete elimination of Christmas related celebrations.

I don't believe anyone here as actually advocated for that, so I don't understand where that is coming from.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[sheppardkid]

If you went on to a Jewish site and they failed to wish you a happy Christmas, would you demand that they change things? Probably not, because it's their site and their rules.

 

Since Christmas dragons have been called, well, Christmas dragons for five years now, and since we have had Christmas-themed events for four years, I think it's fair to say that TJ finds the secular, non-religious side of Christmas to be good fun for everyone. Can't that be respected and left alone?

 

 

 

Well said. Since there is nothing offensive about gingerbread houses or wreath-decorating, I can only assume that the only offensive thing about the current system is that it uses the word Christmas... and I really question how offensive that can be. As has been said many times here, and shown through all the many non-religious Christmas events we've had, there is definitely a very, very worldy version of Christmas that ought to be enjoyable for everyone regardless of faith.

 

Yes, it also shares the name and day with a very religious celebration. But you know--pretty much any solstice celebration would be likely to have some religious meaning to someone, too.

 

But guhhh this thread is stressing me out so I'm going to just leave the poll to do the talking. Right now only 14% like the idea of a change while 77% would rather it not be changed. Now I suppose the poll results could totally flip as more votes come in... but I rather doubt it.

^THIS^ Why is it that everything seems to come down to religion? Someone is always going to be offended for some reason or another. That's the problem when a game such as this becomes internationally known and played.

 

Include people, for pete's sake, don't make them feel worse about something that's been so ingrained in our culture that they can't help.

 

So why not do everyone a favor and make a winter celebration event inclusive and inviting to everyone of different cultures?

 

But doesn't the fact that it has become so ingrained in secular society automatically make it for everyone? I mean, just because you don't celebrate Christmas, doesn't mean you can't have fun all the same.

 

Because not everyone celebrates winter? Any way you look at it, someone is going to be left out and/or offended. I'm assuming that TJ picked Christmas as the arbitrary date for these events because that's what a majority of people celebrate, adhere to, get together for, whatever you want to say. It's easier than making holiday sprites to be released for every single cultural holiday. I'm not saying that I don't respect other cultures' holidays. I do! What I AM saying is that it's a bit ridiculous to nitpick at a holiday event because of its perceived religious connections. Granted, it did start out as a religious holiday but it has become way too secular now to really be considered religious (unless you are a Christian like myself who still holds that value, but that has no bearing here).

Edited January 18, 2013 by sheppardkid

[Pokemonfan13]

You know, if it's changed to a winter solstice [or winter in general] celebration, you're leaving out an entire half of the earth. Just sayin'.

[Obscure_Trash]

You know, if it's changed to a winter solstice [or winter in general] celebration, you're leaving out an entire half of the earth. Just sayin'.

Both hemispheres have a winter. =p I think calling it just Solstice would fix the problem you seem to have with the Winter Festival/Solstice/Celebration solution? Although the forums already address it as Winter-themed stuff.

 

For some reason, people keep getting the impression that we're going for a complete change up of the holiday celebration or the complete elimination of Christmas related celebrations.

 

Which I'm going to say is strongly influencing the poll one way. Partly why I think this is a thread that should have relied on reading posts so what people's answers are reflecting.

[hazeh]

^THIS^  Why is it that everything seems to come down to religion?  Someone is always going to be offended for some reason or another.  That's the problem when a game such as this becomes internationally known and played.

 

 

 

But doesn't the fact that it has become so ingrained in secular society automatically make it for everyone?  I mean, just because you don't celebrate Christmas, doesn't mean you can't have fun all the same.

 

Because not everyone celebrates winter?  Any way you look at it, someone is going to be left out and/or offended.  I'm assuming that TJ picked Christmas as the arbitrary date for these events because that's what a majority of people celebrate, adhere to, get together for, whatever you want to say.  It's easier than making holiday sprites to be released for every single cultural holiday.  I'm not saying that I don't respect other cultures' holidays.  I do!  What I AM saying is that it's a bit ridiculous to nitpick at a holiday event because of its perceived religious connections.  Granted, it did start out as a religious holiday but it has become way too secular now to really be considered religious (unless you are a Christian like myself who still holds that value, but that has no bearing here).

I've been making the argument about culture, not religion, since obviously the religious part of the discussion has long been moot. I'm arguing as an Atheist who celebrates both Christmas and Chanukah, and no, just because Christmas has become secular, does not make it for everyone. Plenty of people don't celebrate Christmas simply because it isn't apart of their culture. Where's the harm in including something that is special to them, when Christmas is obviously special to a bunch of other people? It's not cool to leave out a group simply because "the majority" like that holiday. TJ's made that effort by naming it a the Holiday event, which we all appreciate, but it'd be really nice if there was something that didn't make people feel like they couldn't connect to that special event.

 

Obviously people are feeling a little left out. This we can't ignore, and as a community we should be trying to make it better for everyone instead of obstinately refusing to recognize that this would be a good change.

And no, I'd argue that making sprites that reference other cultures or holidays or even festival/ mythological origins for that time of year is a good thing. It gives a lot of inspiration and motive for people to work on new projects. Sometime or another we're going to run out of Christmas Dragon ideas anyway, this suggestion at least gives us more to look forward and appreciate as a diverse group of people who want to get together and enjoy a game. What's so hard about including people? Shooting down suggestions like this makes me disappointed as a player. I'd hoped more people would want their fellow DCers to feel as equally involved and apart of a special celebration as they themselves do, but I guess I was wrong.

 

Which I'm going to say is strongly influencing the poll one way. Partly why I think this is a thread that should have relied on reading posts so what people's answers are reflecting.

 

That's exactly what I thought, too. Which is a shame, because this is something that I think should really be decided on with more than a poll, because polls can only give you so much information.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Zovesta]

*clears throat*

 

Why is it that everyone is talking about CHANGING THE WHOLE THING rather than simply talking about drawing INFLUENCES from different things AS WELL and going for a name change to something ORIGINAL.

 

seriously guys what's going on...

 

caps because no one seems willing to reply to any of this

[Pokemonfan13]

Both hemispheres have a winter. =p I think calling it just Solstice would fix the problem you seem to have with the Winter Festival/Solstice/Celebration solution? Although the forums already address it as Winter-themed stuff.

I know they both have winter. But while the northern hemisphere has winter the southern has summer. I know I wouldn't be super into a celebration of snow and the like when it's 95 degrees outside. x3

 

 

It wasn't a serious point anyways, mainly that you will always be excluding someone, and in the case of taking it away from a nearly universally celebrated holiday and towards a winter themed event, you're excluding a great deal of people who are currently experiencing the height of summer.

[sheppardkid]

And no, I'd argue that making sprites that reference other cultures or holidays or even festival/ mythological origins for that time of year is a good thing. It gives a lot of inspiration and motive for people to work on new projects. Sometime or another we're going to run out of Christmas Dragon ideas anyway, this suggestion at least gives us more to look forward and appreciate as a diverse group of people who want to get together and enjoy a game. What's so hard about including people? Shooting down suggestions like this makes me disappointed as a player. I'd hoped more people would want their fellow DCers to feel as equally involved and apart of a special celebration as they themselves do, but I guess I was wrong.

But the problem would be that Kwanza, Chanukah, and Christmas all fall within a few months (at the most) from one another. That's what I was pointing out in my previous post when I mentioned making sprites for every holiday. People wouldn't even have time to breathe in-between events, which can be either good or bad depending on who you ask.

 

The hard thing about including people is that you still have the potential to exclude people. While trying to make one group of people feel more involved, you run the risk of leaving out other groups. Take winter solstice for instance. I will play devil's advocate here and say that I don't celebrate winter solstice because, where I'm from, we basically get a winter in name only. If we changed the event to a winter solstice event then that could potentially make me feel "left out" since I don't have a winter. It's not the best example to use I'll admit, but it gets the point across I think. I would be more inclined to go with Zovesta's suggestion. Having other cultures influence the Christmas sprites and changing the names to their actual "nicknames" would probably go over better.

Edited January 18, 2013 by sheppardkid

[hazeh]

But the problem would be that Kwanza, Chanukah, and Christmas all fall within a few months (at the most) from one another. That's what I was pointing out in my previous post when I mentioned making sprites for every holiday. People wouldn't even have time to breathe in-between events, which can be either good or bad depending on who you ask.

 

The hard thing about including people is that you still have the potential to exclude people. While trying to make one group of people feel more involved, you run the risk of leaving out other groups. Take winter solstice for instance. I will be devil's advocate here and say that I don't celebrate winter solstice because, where I'm from, we basically get a winter in name only. If we changed the event to a winter solstice event then that could potentially make me feel "left out" since I don't have a winter. It's not the best example to use I'll admit, but it gets the point across I think. I would be more inclined to go with Zovesta's suggestion. Having other cultures influence the Christmas sprites and changing the names to their actual "nicknames" would probably go over better.

If people feel so strongly about having a single seasonal event around this time of year, I don't see the problem in having a Chanukah themed dragon instead of a Christmas dragon, or a Kwanza dragon. After all, there are so many Christmas themes to fall back on, yes? Why not give people from other cultures special attention too? If you're going to treat the members one way, then at least treat all of them the same way.

 

However, I much like the better generalized "holiday" dragon instead of "Christmas" or "Chanukah" dragon, where there are obviously themes from different cultures present in the dragon and/or event itself.

 

"Obviously someone is going to feel left out."

 

Then it's our job as a community to try and correct that instead of saying "Oh most people are happy so its okay".

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I don't want to eliminate the holidays, I just want to remove the word christmas.. and add a summer holiday.

 

The best idea i've seen.. even better than mine own suggestion.. is making up brand new DC related fictional holidays. They would be NON-religious, NON-seasonal and totally relevant to DC, WITHOUT the baggage that goes with our current holiday themes.

[DarkEternity]

Ok, for those of you who want to change what the holidays are called, I can see newbies and me (because dates get really confusing when you are in a weird timezone like mine) getting a tad confused about when everything is.

 

For example, I don't even know when the Winter Solstice is or the Summer Solstice or the xxx Equinox unless I look it up on the internet. Even then, I'd have trouble figuring out what sort of breeding period the dragons would have and the drop times (!) in the time before the holidays.

 

You know how everyone goes... Christmas Holiday!

 

And then we all think 25th of December. And then we all think 25-7=18th of December therefore the 18th of December is when the Holiday breeding period starts, Christmas dragons start dropping on the 25th and now I can just note that down mentally for every year.

 

(at least that's what I do.)

 

And if you guys go... Winter Solstice! I'll be like when is it, then I realise that the date changes every single year and then I'll have absolutely no luck at all remembering when I should stop breeding my dragons ;_; I'll also be so confused every year and live in eternal fear that I might forget the date and miss out on the dragons. And then if you keep the date the same every year and call it Winter Solstice, then I'll still be confused because is it DC Winter Solstice or Real Life Solstice.

 

Just y'know coming from an atheist... so confusing :/

[hazeh]

I don't want to eliminate the holidays, I just want to remove the word christmas.. and add a summer holiday.

 

The best idea i've seen.. even better than mine own suggestion.. is making up brand new DC related fictional holidays. They would be NON-religious, NON-seasonal and totally relevant to DC, WITHOUT the baggage that goes with our current holiday themes.

The problem I see with that idea is that it is an idea that should be implemented before the game itself becomes widely popular, such as present from the start. I think it's a little late to create such a drastic change for DC by making new holidays and pushing aside the fact that the previous Christmas and holiday dragons already exist.

 

The best change I can think of at this point is to remove "Spirit of Christmas" from the descriptions and tweak other descriptions so they're more vague, and then to provide holiday references from other cultures in the next holiday celebrations that rely heavily on cultural context (such as Christmas or Halloween).

 

Ok, for those of you who want to change what the holidays are called, I can see newbies and me (because dates get really confusing when you are in a weird timezone like mine) getting a tad confused about when everything is.

 

For example, I don't even know when the Winter Solstice is or the Summer Solstice or the xxx Equinox unless I look it up on the internet. Even then, I'd have trouble figuring out what sort of breeding period the dragons would have and the drop times (!) in the time before the holidays.

 

You know how everyone goes... Christmas Holiday!

 

And then we all think 25th of December. And then we all think 25-7=18th of December therefore the 18th of December is when the Holiday breeding period starts, Christmas dragons start dropping on the 25th and now I can just note that down mentally for every year.

 

(at least that's what I do.)

 

And if you guys go... Winter Solstice! I'll be like when is it, then I realise that the date changes every single year and then I'll have absolutely no luck at all remembering when I should stop breeding my dragons ;_; I'll also be so confused every year and live in eternal fear that I might forget the date and miss out on the dragons. And then if you keep the date the same every year and call it Winter Solstice, then I'll still be confused because is it DC Winter Solstice or Real Life Solstice.

 

Just y'know coming from an atheist... so confusing :/

 

 

Usually TJ puts up a notice about these things, so I don't really see it being a problem.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[DarkEternity]

Still, I can see this working if a very advance warning (maybe one year in advance) would be nice because once holidays are booked they are ultra hard to change. Whereas with the 25th, I just remember to shoot down holiday plans on that one day with a one day tolerance around that just to be safe.

Edited January 18, 2013 by DarkEternity

[hazeh]

Still, I can see this working if a very advance warning (maybe one year in advance) would be nice because once holidays are booked they are ultra hard to change. Whereas with the 25th, I just remember to shoot down holiday plans on that one day with a one day tolerance around that just to be safe.

One year in advance is a little silly. At that point no one is going to remember when the event is and that might just cause more confusion than it's worth.

 

As far as I'm aware, TJ's holiday posts about the upcoming events have been advanced enough to let people know what's going for that that month. Like a few weeks in advance, which should be plenty of time to plan anything having to do with an online community.

[olympe]

For some reason, people keep getting the impression that we're going for a complete change up of the holiday celebration or the complete elimination of Christmas related celebrations.

Which I'm going to say is strongly influencing the poll one way. Partly why I think this is a thread that should have relied on reading posts so what people's answers are reflecting.

Same here. People really should have to read before angst-voting. :/

 

Obviously people are feeling a little left out. This we can't ignore, and as a community we should be trying to make it better for everyone instead of obstinately refusing to recognize that this would be a good change.

And no, I'd argue that making sprites that reference other cultures or holidays or even festival/ mythological origins for that time of year is a good thing. It gives a lot of inspiration and motive for people to work on new projects. Sometime or another we're going to run out of Christmas Dragon ideas anyway, this suggestion at least gives us more to look forward and appreciate as a diverse group of people who want to get together and enjoy a game. What's so hard about including people? Shooting down suggestions like this makes me disappointed as a player. I'd hoped more people would want their fellow DCers to feel as equally involved and apart of a special celebration as they themselves do, but I guess I was wrong.

Couldn't have put it better, myself. People are arguing that Christmas events or special releases have been going on for 6 events/years by now without anybody complaining. Well, a long-time player now asked for a change so he is not feeling left out. A long-time player, not an absolute noob. Which tells me a number of things.

 

First of all, it takes courage to ask for such a change, especially if it's ingrained as the Christmas events are ingrained in DC. Second, said person knows the way most players are bound to react - which is negatively, if not vitriolic. And yet, this person found the courage to ask for a change to either make the theme more neutral instead of Christmas-y or to include other holidays of that season, too.

 

Also, would it be such a big thing if the Christmas dragon description was changed to the following:

Holiday Cheer dragons are very mysterious breeds. They are only seen during the winter holiday season, and even then it is hard to catch a glimpse of one. They are responsible for the general cheer that spreads during the holidays. In essence, they are the “Spirits of Winter”.

 

Also, to include some other holiday traditions (Chanukka/Hanukka; Yule), how about a light-themed dragon for the next winter holiday, maybe one with nine tails with glowing tailtips to discretely hint at the Chanukkia? Light also plays a part in Christmas (candles, advent wreath), Yule (which is still celebrated in many northern Eurpean countries such as Sweden, but with Christmas mixed in), the Lantern Festival that's prominent in large parts of Asia, Kwanzaa and probably most winter solstice festivals.

 

Other dragon ideas that inspired alone from this short list and wikipedia:

A red-orange glowing Lantern Dragon

A light or candle dragon - maybe a dragon with nine glowing tails? (mostly Chanukka, but also Christmas, Lucia, Lantern Feast, Yule and other winter solstice festivals))

A boldly colored Kente Dragon (for Kwanzaa)

A dragon that's usually plain, but starts to develop a slight glow on Dec 1st, that gets more and more intense until, on the winter solstice, it bursts into flame. On Jan 1st, it will return to its former plain state. (Or to an intermediate state where its burned/charred and turns green in the following months...) Call it Phoenix dragon for all you want, it would still be a great reminder of the winter solstice and what it represents - the return of light.

 

 

Of course, many of our existing Christmas dragons have connotations in other cultures, too. Holly has been used in celtic culture - for example, druids used to wear holly wreaths around their heads for winter (solstice?) celebrations.

 

The Yulebuck sure is a symbol of the Yule Feast, which is strongly enmeshed with Christmas in many northern European countries.

 

Ribbon Dancers and the new Wrapping Wings are a symbol of gift-giving, which is part of various traditions, as far as I know, so they're not exactly Christmas-only dragons.

 

Also, regarding "Christmas colors", namely red, green, gold and white (to some extent) - they're also mentioned in (neo?)wiccan Yule traditions.

[Fuzzbucket]

Summer between Easter and Hallowe'en is a bit - odd - for people in Australia... Just saying....

[angelicdragonpuppy]

^THIS^ Why is it that everything seems to come down to religion? Someone is always going to be offended for some reason or another. That's the problem when a game such as this becomes internationally known and played.

 

 

 

But doesn't the fact that it has become so ingrained in secular society automatically make it for everyone? I mean, just because you don't celebrate Christmas, doesn't mean you can't have fun all the same.

 

Because not everyone celebrates winter? Any way you look at it, someone is going to be left out and/or offended. I'm assuming that TJ picked Christmas as the arbitrary date for these events because that's what a majority of people celebrate, adhere to, get together for, whatever you want to say. It's easier than making holiday sprites to be released for every single cultural holiday. I'm not saying that I don't respect other cultures' holidays. I do! What I AM saying is that it's a bit ridiculous to nitpick at a holiday event because of its perceived religious connections. Granted, it did start out as a religious holiday but it has become way too secular now to really be considered religious (unless you are a Christian like myself who still holds that value, but that has no bearing here).

I second all of this.

 

I second PF13 in saying that a general winter-themed celebration wouldn't make sense for half the world at the time. Making up an event without winter ties, however, would rather ruin the point.

 

I still don't like the idea of dragons relating to other holidays because of one reason: there isn't a commercialized version of said holidays. With our Christmas dragons, it's a three part removal from things: we have dragons loosely based off a secularized version of a religious holiday. Whereas any other holiday dragons would be loosely based off of things without commercialized versions--one step less. Subtle influence is one thing (like Yulebucks), but a menorah dragon or an African pride dragon is going a bit far.

 

I still very much dislike the idea that you must mention every single culture or mention none at all. That's not how things work in the world, nor how they should. Minorities should be protected, but they should not get to boss around the majority. If the vast majority of people celebrate one thing, the solution should not be to spend half of future holiday seasons making dragons in reference to religions or cultures that are not as widely celebrated in the playing audience.

 

As a closing note, again, they have been called Christmas dragons for five years. That's the only place in the whole site where the word appears, and it does so in an entirely non-religous fashion. Does it really bother you so much, or can you live and let live, acknowledge the fact that that's what most of the userbase celebrates, and leave well enough alone? Are you really so upset about that one word that you can't leave it as a nod to the culture this site comes from?

[Aaricia_Rose]

I don't want to eliminate the holidays, I just want to remove the word christmas.. and add a summer holiday.

 

The best idea i've seen.. even better than mine own suggestion.. is making up brand new DC related fictional holidays. They would be NON-religious, NON-seasonal and totally relevant to DC, WITHOUT the baggage that goes with our current holiday themes.

Yay for new holidays! I have a suggestion for a new holiday: let's celebrate the birthday of the oldest "dragon" (it's a dino) on dc: http://dragcave.net/lineage/n/0ejxa%20ev%20Jb0

 

His birthday is 26 May 2006 and we don't have a lot of existing holidays around that time.

 

But I wouldn't change anything about the existing holidays. I like them the way they are and I look forward to them every year.

[SolarCat]

Well wouldn't it be better to just add holidays for other religion/cultures ? Instead of arguing they should be changed completely?

This.

 

Diversity isn't about eradicating the things others don't believe, it's about acknowledging and respecting different cultures whether or not you believe what they believe.

 

How about instead of subtracting from what we have already we just add to it to include more people?

 

EDIT: And with that, I am also referencing this thread, because I think the currently-released Christmas Dragons really should have their own description. (And if an artist of one is no longer active and hasn't written anything up about their breed, we should still at least take the default and insert the actual breed name in place of the "Christmas Dragons").

Edited January 18, 2013 by SolarCat

[darkshadow5392]

 

 

Couldn't have put it better, myself. People are arguing that Christmas events or special releases have been going on for 6 events/years by now without anybody complaining. Well, a long-time player now asked for a change so he is not feeling left out. A long-time player, not an absolute noob. Which tells me a number of things.

 

First of all, it takes courage to ask for such a change, especially if it's ingrained as the Christmas events are ingrained in DC. Second, said person knows the way most players are bound to react - which is negatively, if not vitriolic. And yet, this person found the courage to ask for a change to either make the theme more neutral instead of Christmas-y or to include other holidays of that season, too.

 

Also, would it be such a big thing if the Christmas dragon description was changed to the following:

Holiday Cheer dragons are very mysterious breeds. They are only seen during the winter holiday season, and even then it is hard to catch a glimpse of one. They are responsible for the general cheer that spreads during the holidays. In essence, they are the “Spirits of Winter”.

 

Also, to include some other holiday traditions (Chanukka/Hanukka; Yule), how about a light-themed dragon for the next winter holiday, maybe one with nine tails with glowing tailtips to discretely hint at the Chanukkia? Light also plays a part in Christmas (candles, advent wreath), Yule (which is still celebrated in many northern Eurpean countries such as Sweden, but with Christmas mixed in), the Lantern Festival that's prominent in large parts of Asia, Kwanzaa and probably most winter solstice festivals.

 

Other dragon ideas that inspired alone from this short list and wikipedia:

A red-orange glowing Lantern Dragon

A light or candle dragon - maybe a dragon with nine glowing tails? (mostly Chanukka, but also Christmas, Lucia, Lantern Feast, Yule and other winter solstice festivals))

A boldly colored Kente Dragon (for Kwanzaa)

A dragon that's usually plain, but starts to develop a slight glow on Dec 1st, that gets more and more intense until, on the winter solstice, it bursts into flame. On Jan 1st, it will return to its former plain state. (Or to an intermediate state where its burned/charred and turns green in the following months...) Call it Phoenix dragon for all you want, it would still be a great reminder of the winter solstice and what it represents - the return of light.

 

 

Also, regarding "Christmas colors", namely red, green, gold and white (to some extent) - they're also mentioned in (neo?)wiccan Yule traditions.

 

I like this as a good solution and I would love to see some lantern/fire based holiday dragons popping up in the next few years

 

I like the Holiday Cheer description

 

Let's start pumping out some beautiful kwanzaa and Chanukka or just plain wintery dragons! If they are done well (which I have faith in our artists) people should be happy that dragcave is trying to get everyone to feel involved

Edited January 18, 2013 by darkshadow5392

[Fuzzbucket]

Holiday Cheer sounds REALLY icky - but also it's the kind of sentiment you only EVER see on a - CHRISTMAS card.

 

Just saying.

 

Why not just Holiday ? The cheery feel comes from the description, surely (still don't actually want to see a change, but trying to be even-handed here !)

[Jennabob]

My knee-jerk reaction is, of course, "Change? Never!"

 

However, after reading through some of the posts here, and understanding this isn't an effort to redo holidays entirely, I guess I wouldn't have an issue with expanding to include other holidays.

 

While I'm all for including people, I do wonder how we would pick the new holidays? Part of what makes them exciting is that they only happen every now and then. And by picking only a few, we'd be leaving people out, repeat cycle...

 

I admit I'd be a little disappointed to see Christmas become a general winter celebration, but no, I can't put forth a solid argument as to why. I don't celebrate Christmas as anything other than a family get-together, but I guess it's just ingrained for me to be protective of it. If it changes, I doubt I'd be all that upset.

[eritated]

I'm an Atheist, so I don't really feel left out since I don't celebrate anything, but I felt bad for the others' whose cultures were being left out. In my opinion, we shouldn't have only Christmas dragons because, yeah, not everyone celebrates it. I was really hoping for a Hanukah or just a Winter dragon for the holidays this year, and was pretty disappointed when I saw we got another Christmas dragon. We should include everyone, not just the majority.

 

Or, if that is not plausible, I would also support just a generic Winter holiday event. Either way, I support a change in the DC Holidays so that they can try and include everyone.

 

[AngelKitty]

Uh, no thanks. It's a fantasy game, it doesn't have to be based solidly in real medieval history in terms of holidays.

 

As far as the Christmas events go, none of the dragons have been religious in nature - they've been festive and seasonal and secular. I'd be okay with a description change but there's really no need to change the nature of the dragons themselves in future events.