Change the Holidays

[Pixxelation]

Because I was afraid to suggest it until someone else brought it up. When I realized others agreed, I made this topic.

[HawktalonOfRiverClan]

I don't object to changing the name of the winter celebration to "Winter Faire" or whatever. I don't care.

 

I don't object to changing the dragons' descriptions to include the names we call them by and describe them as the "Spirit of Giving" or whatever. I don't care.

 

I don't object to changing the theme, if that will make people happy. I don't care.

 

I don't object to including other cultural themes. I don't care.

 

I wouldn't object to having one theme for the event activity and another for the dragon. I don't care.

 

I do object to trying to have more than 1 new release dragon for the celebration. It would not only make it hard to maintain the spirit of the thing, it would also make it hard to catch and raise everything for newer members in coming years.

 

I do care that we keep the event, I don't much care how it's done, but I do not want to lose what we have.

Agree. My oppinion is that it's hard to please everybody, but if things must be changed then whatever, change them. Just don't change too much. I like the Christmas event as it is already.

[LaHaine]

The issue wasn't found, it was already there, people just remembered to make a problem out of this now.

If a bunch of red-and-green pixels in a game hurt some people, they must keep themselves inside their houses during Christmas, with so much Christmas-related publicity ._.

 

Religion, any kind of religion, only creates arguments because people get offended when their beliefs are not respected or they feel other people's beliefs shoved in their faces. Not that I'm against that mind you, I'm just saying that it's funny how it always ends up like this even in games

 

I'm not saying they should keep quiet if they feel offended, of course not, I just don't understand why make such a big deal out of this, you know? It's just a browser game about catching dragons like someone said before x.x There's no need for religious debates or anything...

 

 

The only problem is with the dragons yeah? The event is called Winter Holiday, I don't see a problem in keeping with the Winter event and changing only the description of the dragons like the other topic suggested. I don't see a need to make a dragon for each religion.

EDIT: And if being the only one feeling bothered by Christmas was a problem, I think PM'ing TJ or a mod in private and talking about changing the description of the dragons would have worked better.

 

 

Also, it is impossible to please everyone if we are to address every kind of belief each person follows. Like I said before, one couple didn't want to make the cooking event because they were vegans and didn't want to cook meat.

Edited January 19, 2013 by LaHaine

[Flamemynx]

The description guidelines specifically state that DC is in a medieval setting

 

But, like the idea of 'Christmas' neither are the 'laid on', 'hatched on' and 'grew up on' dates "in a medieval setting"- but I don't see people campaigning to have THEM changed.

 

Leave it as it is. It's a pixel game, it's not meant to be completely PC or 'true to the time'.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Flamemynx

[Obscure_Trash]

And if being the only one feeling bothered by Christmas was a problem, I think PM'ing TJ or a mod in private and talking about changing the description of the dragons would have worked better.

 

The only cave thing mods can do is moderate user-suggested descriptions. Why is it wrong to start a discussion on this in public? o.o

 

EDIT: Ooooh, I see! Thanks for explaining what you meant. :3

 

~

 

I'm not asking for events to be changed or gotten rid of. I'm not asking to change the releases or even release dates. I just think it would be cool to change "Christmas dragon" to something more inclusive to match the forum and open submissions to a greater variety of influences. ^^

Edited January 19, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[natli]

I won't mind if DC changes Christmas to Winter Festival or Solistice. I think it's really smart to cut off the events from any religious context.

As an alternative, it would be interesting to make up a pagan religion which would reflect the medieval setting + dragons ^^ Gods which dragons belive in? Sounds kinda funny, but we already have the GoN, which is like a demi-god

I'm Christian, btw

[LaHaine]

The only cave thing mods can do is moderate user-suggested descriptions. Why is it wrong to start a discussion on this in public? o.o

 

~

Ah, I'm sorry, but I didn't mean that. I'm not saying it's wrong. I was saying if a person was afraid of bringing it up alone, PM'ing a mod in private to get some opinions/encouragement on it, it would have worked better (as in, it wouldn't take 6 years to solve this).

 

edit: fix'd spelling

Edited January 19, 2013 by LaHaine

[skauble]

I'm not asking for events to be changed or gotten rid of. I'm not asking to change the releases or even release dates. I just think it would be cool to change "Christmas dragon" to something more inclusive to match the forum and open submissions to a greater variety of influences. ^^

Totally agree with this. Especially if the OP really is mostly interested in having the name changed to something like "Holiday Dragons" or "Winter Festival Dragons" or the like. As TJ pointed out, we don't use Christmas in the forum post, so I don't think the name change wouldn't be inconsistent.

 

And, IMO, Sock points out one of the best reasons to make such a minor change. Because I absolutely adore every Christmas dragon that's been put out, from the Holly to this newest (which looks waaay better than any present I've ever wrapped ), but they are Christmas themes. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but expanding to see how other festive influences might shape things would be awesome, IMO. It doesn't mean, at least how I'm reading it, that artists can't make Christmas influenced dragons still, it just opens the floor to flavoring our holiday dragons with things (colors and various other inspirations) from all the many celebrations.

 

ETA: Also, wanted to add that ITA with this:

 

Ah, I'm sorry, but I didn't mean that. I'm not saying it's wrong. I was saying if a person was afraid of bringing it up alone, PM'ing a mod in private to get some opinions/encouragement on it, it would have worked better (as in, it wouldn't take 6 years to solve this).

Thanks for explaining, because I know that, in the past, people have mentioned being kind of intimidated by the Suggestion section, and this is a really good piece of advice.

Edited January 19, 2013 by skauble

[~Kat~]

Another suggestion, as some of the Holidays come up, whatever other countries celebrate if they do, try and name it from those countries. But there again, what about the Athiests that have no religion or whatever?

 

Someone is going to get hurt no matter what is done.

 

Of course I do not care myself. I just want to catch the dragons.

 

This is nothing but a game.

 

What if another country started this, and had some religion that no one believed in, would any of you still play? I know I would as long as the site was safe.

 

What would you all do if TJ decided to discontinue the dragon game because people want things changed. He and everyone has worked hard to make it so we can all enjoy ourselves on here, and I thank you all for this that has worked hard to make it a fun place for all of us.

[Pixxelation]

I have repeatedly said that I am not offended by the site celebrating Xmas. I simply feel a bit excluded. So please stop assuming I am offended.

 

I don't see how the suggestion I added to the OP could offend anyone.

[PointOfOrigin]

Another suggestion, as some of the Holidays come up, whatever other countries celebrate if they do, try and name it from those countries. But there again, what about the Athiests that have no religion or whatever?

 

Someone is going to get hurt no matter what is done.

 

Of course I do not care myself. I just want to catch the dragons.

 

This is nothing but a game.

 

What if another country started this, and had some religion that no one believed in, would any of you still play? I know I would as long as the site was safe.

 

What would you all do if TJ decided to discontinue the dragon game because people want things changed. He and everyone has worked hard to make it so we can all enjoy ourselves on here, and I thank you all for this that has worked hard to make it a fun place for all of us.

Already went through that idea. Most people agree that's too complicated and very very hard. And if someone did end up excluded those people would be even more hurt. And if idea like that did come through, we always have His Noodlines.

 

I'm all for some dragony religion. After all, we did find a GON in a church. Building something from that would be great.

[skauble]

Another suggestion, as some of the Holidays come up, whatever other countries celebrate if they do, try and name it from those countries. But there again, what about the Athiests that have no religion or whatever? 

I wouldn't mind that either, although the change to holiday or festival would seem to be a bit easier.

 

As for atheists, I can think of a thousand ways to make something seem festive (especially wintery festive) without making it based on a specific holiday. I can't draw any of them, but I can think of them.

 

What would you all do if TJ decided to discontinue the dragon game because people want things changed. He and everyone has worked hard to make it so we can all enjoy ourselves on here, and I thank you all for this that has worked hard to make it a fun place for all of us.

I can't speak for TJ (especially because I'm generally on the losing end of any suggestions. Hopefully that won't be the case here, but I'm kind of like a suggestion weather vane - whatever I say, the wind is blowing the other way ), but he's generally seemed okay with letting us discuss things in the past - even when we sometimes go around in circles for years working ideas out. And he hasn't shut the game down during some of the massive blow outs we've had here, so I wouldn't think that a suggestion like this would be the camel breaking straw. Also, he was in this thread earlier, so he has, at least for now, let us continue the debate.

[siliconrose]

What would you all do if TJ decided to discontinue the dragon game because people want things changed. He and everyone has worked hard to make it so we can all enjoy ourselves on here, and I thank you all for this that has worked hard to make it a fun place for all of us.

Could we please not do this? Anyone who can't take the fact that some people won't like everything about what they've created shouldn't be in a creative profession, end stop.

 

TJ has a right not to change what he created, but that doesn't grant him the right to everyone liking it. And the truth is, I think he doesn't care about all this as much as people think.

 

If you want "Christmas" dragons, fine. If you don't want "Christmas" dragons, fine. But please don't say "I don't care but you all ought to be grateful for what you have."

 

I think it might be cool to see dragons which are a little less Christmassy than they have been in the past, though I have loved every dragon released so far, and will probably love future Christmassy dragons if more of them are released. I'd still like to see the door open for a bit more variety.

[Pixxelation]

I highly doubt TJ would shut down his primary source of income.

 

There's a suggestions/requests section for a reason: discussing changes to the game.

[Elachu]

Just wondering... Are there really people out there who are celebrating christmas because of their religious meaning? (No offence, but it's actually really suprising me)

 

I'm atheist myself and I never felt bothered by all the christian "events" neither. Also St. Patrics day is completly unknown over here and only a very few people are crazy about halloween. However I would never complain about those events. These events dont hurt anyone and no one of you is, in fact, forced to join/celebrate them. Thats like... buying christmas stuff in a shop and complaining over the counter that you felt forced to buy that items... (though I'd love to see a kwanzaa dragon or a little chanuka dragon with a candle on its head ^o^)

Edited January 20, 2013 by Elachu

[Shadowdrake]

Is it really so bad to just take out the generic "Christmas" descriptions for the dragons and have site-wide festivities that don't include religious favoritism, even if Christmas has become somewhat secular? Make it a celebration for the denizens of DC as a whole.

[blah]

Just wondering... Are there really people out there who are celebrating christmas because of their religious meaning? (No offence, but it's actually really suprising me)

I do

 

But an internet game about dragons, as much as I love it, I can't take seriously enough to make this an issue.

 

Call it whatever you want and walk in circles and overthink it, I honestly don't care.

[Vhale]

Just wondering... Are there really people out there who are celebrating christmas because of their religious meaning? (No offence, but it's actually really suprising me)

Probably a silly question really :3

Yes people celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday. However, I can say I've never seen a Santa, tree, wreath, Rudolph or Frosty in any Church I've attended. One person wanted to do a Santa thing once, and it was a bit of a snafu. There are a lot of Christians that get very offended about having those things in church. The religious displays that are welcome in church are angels, nativity scenes, the wise men. You don't see them in red/green colors, but in natural colors. You don't exchange gifts at church, or at least I never have. By reading some of these posts, I've the impression people think that priests dress up as Santa and give sermons or some such. Which is absolutely not the case. I'm sure someone has done it... but not mainstream.

 

Oddly enough, the suggestion of including more faiths stands to make the holiday more religious than it has been in the past, as I'd expect the real religious icons to show up if others were being included as well. Not the commercialized red/green fluff.

[skauble]

Probably a silly question really :3

Yes people celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday. However, I can say I've never seen a Santa, tree, wreath, Rudolph or Frosty in any Church I've attended. One person wanted to do a Santa thing once, and it was a bit of a snafu. There are a lot of Christians that get very offended about having those things in church. The religious displays that are welcome in church are angels, nativity scenes, the wise men. You don't see them in red/green colors, but in natural colors. You don't exchange gifts at church, or at least I never have. By reading some of these posts, I've the impression people think that priests dress up as Santa and give sermons or some such. Which is absolutely not the case. I'm sure someone has done it... but not mainstream.

I was raised a Baptist and we used to have Christmas trees around, and I went to Christian school and we made things like paper bag Santas for art and the like. We even had a living Christmas tree service where a huge wooden tree was set up with stands in it for the choir...which always seemed super dangerous to me.

 

Oddly enough, the suggestion of including more faiths stands to make the holiday more religious than it has been in the past, as I'd expect the real religious icons to show up if others were being included as well. Not the commercialized red/green fluff.

I can't speak to whether there are/what are the traditional colors of Hanukkah, but I know that a lot of people use blues, whites, and silver. I think it would be lovely to have a dragon inspired by those colors the same way we have dragons inspired by Christmas colors.

Edited January 20, 2013 by skauble

[Pixxelation]

The problem is, as I've stated, I would be offended for a dragons that is clearly themed for another holiday described as a Spirit of Christmas.

[Mommy_Kitty]

Nope. All Saint's Eve and Day of the Dead are Christianic. The Halloween you have now hasn't replaced those two days, it just returned to it's original roots. So no, Halloween isn't the same thing as those two days.

 

I honestly don't like three releases in three weeks. It would be too much, and besides most of us already went crazy with just one week. It's hard to imagine that most of us would have enough patience for three weeks of holiday wall.

From wikipedia

Halloween or Hallowe'en (a contraction of "All Hallows' Evening"), also known as All Hallows' Eve, is a yearly celebration observed in a number of countries on October 31, the eve of the Western Christian feast of All Hallows (or All Saints) and the day initiating the triduum of Hallowmas.

 

According to many scholars, it is a Christianised feast originally influenced by western European harvest festivals, and festivals of the dead with possible pagan roots, particularly the Celtic Samhain. Others maintain that it originated independently of Samhain and has Christian roots.

[~Kat~]

I'm atheist myself and I never felt bothered by all the christian "events" neither. Also St. Patrics day is completly unknown over here and only a very few people are crazy about halloween. However I would never complain about those events. These events dont hurt anyone and no one of you is, in fact, forced to join/celebrate them. Thats like... buying christmas stuff in a shop and complaining over the counter that you felt forced to buy that items... (though I'd love to see a kwanzaa dragon or a little chanuka dragon with a candle on its head ^o^)

I admire what you have posted, thank you.

 

I also have a really good friend who is Athiest, and she feels as you do. We respect each other very much.

 

I am with you, if I do not care for something, I do not have to attend, join or buy anything. If that is their thing and not mine, I let them be who they are.

 

Yes, I do draw the line at some things though.

[Vhale]

I was raised a Baptist and we used to have Christmas trees around, and I went to Christian school and we made things like paper bag Santas for art and the like. We even had a living Christmas tree service where a huge wooden tree was set up with stands in it for the choir...which always seemed super dangerous to me.

 

 

I can't speak to whether there are/what are the traditional colors of Hanukkah, but I know that a lot of people use blues, whites, and silver. I think it would be lovely to have a dragon inspired by those colors the same way we have dragons inspired by Christmas colors.

Oy, there would be some knickers twisted in my old church, sadly

 

There's definitely been no Halloween or Valentine service either. I think once, a haunted house and probably some "safe" trick or treating. But no sermon, special celebration. Nothing. Now Easter egg hunts, that is a HUGE church thing for us. And pot lucks. People <3 their food.

 

Given that Easter isn't being touched I guess the whole thing comes down to the word Christmas in the description then?

 

Are the colors for holiday dragons restricted or have people just been keeping a trend for the sake of it?

[Pixxelation]

Just wondering... Are there really people out there who are celebrating christmas because of their religious meaning? (No offence, but it's actually really suprising me)

 

I'm atheist myself and I never felt bothered by all the christian "events" neither. Also St. Patrics day is completly unknown over here and only a very few people are crazy about halloween. However I would never complain about those events. These events dont hurt anyone and no one of you is, in fact, forced to join/celebrate them. Thats like... buying christmas stuff in a shop and complaining over the counter that you felt forced to buy that items... (though I'd love to see a kwanzaa dragon or a little chanuka dragon with a candle on its head ^o^)

That is the complete opposite of why I created this thread. As I have been saying the whole time, I am not saying that I am being forced to celebrate something I do not believe in. I feel like it isn't as inclusive as it could be, and I am feeling a wee bit left out. I still enjoy it and everything.

 

On a side note, if anyone has any ideas for Halloween/VDay texts, I'm all ears!

 

EDIT: "Easter" doesn't really need to be touched, since it isn't officially Easter; it's already the Festival of Eggs; based on Easter, but really a DC-specific event.

Edited January 20, 2013 by PieMaster

[HeatherMarie]

Is it really so bad to just take out the generic "Christmas" descriptions for the dragons and have site-wide festivities that don't include religious favoritism, even if Christmas has become somewhat secular? Make it a celebration for the denizens of DC as a whole.

This sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

Take out the "Christmas" in those dragon's descriptions. Have a "Winter Celebration" or somesuch, with NO religious favoritism. That means completely unbiased. Cooking events, gingerbread houses, making snowmen that our dragons can play with, etc etc. Nothing that involves any other religion.

 

Same with Halloween, Easter, etc etc. For Easter, all we have is a colorful, beautiful egg-hunt, so that's already completely separate from anything religious. For Halloween, we have trick-or-treat hunts, and a vaguely-Hallowen-related dragon. Again, nothing religious.

 

I don't think we have to completely change the events MOST users love so much, simply make sure there are no ties to any religion. Which is pretty much already done, except for the Christmas reference.