Gender and Gender Identity

[edwardelricfreak]

Christian school pressures 'tomboy' to transfer

 

 

More supposedly "Christian" BS. Sunnie's great-grandparents are awesome sauce.

I have no words to express my outrage over that article...just let her back into the school with what she wants to wear and stuff. :\

[JavaTigress]

I have no words to express my outrage over that article...just let her back into the school with what she wants to wear and stuff. :\

It kidn of annoys me, too, Sci; except that many times that sort of school has dress codes. I can't say for a fact that that was the case here but... if it was shouldn't she, and her guardians, have KNOWN what was considered proper attire for class? If it wasn't well, then i am inclined to agree with you there.

 

I am not saying the school was right just... i'd like more info before judging.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Silverswift

[MasterWeavile898]

Oh wow, that's...

 

So basically they're doing what Skyie said? Lol

 

I see nothing wrong with her being tomboyish. There's absolutely nothing wrong, from any point of view, with her wearing less feminine attire?

 

The entire things seems absolutely moronic to me

 

It seems they're just worried about her possibubbly being trans and don't want to risk having her there if that is the case. They really need to wait until that's been proven so before they kick her out :/

[Shienvien]

Thing is, the school doesn't have an actual uniform (and even then, they should give people at least an option to wear either dress/skirt or pants - *purely* for practicality reasons) and she is wearing nothing that would be, well, revealing or otherwise "inappropriate" outside of pure sexism.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Shienvien

[Draikette]

For the most part, asexual... People can be pretty gross...

But if /when the time comes, I've been attracted to either gender, though I prefer girls at times. Come on, they tend to be prettier oHo

[Tazzay]

I'm a full on pansexual. Anything pleases me.

 

Though I do have my preferences, of course

[JavaTigress]

I hate to sound ignorant but... can someone please explain the difference between gender neutral and androgynous?

 

To my mind they sound pretty similar; although I am sure there are shades of meaning there that I am missing. If someone could clear that up for me, I'd appreciate it. Again, sorry if that question comes cross as ignorant and thanks for your patience with it.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Silverswift

[Tazzay]

I hate to sound ignorant but... can someone please explain the difference between gender neutral and androgynous?

 

To my mind they sound pretty similar; although I am sure there are shades of meaning there that I am missing. If someone could clear that up for me, I;d appreciate it.

Androgynous means having both masculine and feminine features, while gender-neutral basically means not looking like either. It can also relate to asexual individuals, I think.

 

As an androgynous individual, I look a lot like both sexes, even though my biological sex is male. Can be irritating when people mistake you for the opposite sex, though.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Tazzay

[JavaTigress]

Androgynous means having both masculine and feminine features, while gender-neutral basically means not looking like either. At can also relate to asexual individuals, I think.

 

As an androgynous individual, it's mainly just looking like both a male and a female. Can be irritating when people mistake you for the opposite sex, though.

So... a person could be gender neutral, to a degree, even if they identified as one gender or the other if they simply didn't care? If their gender wasn't that big a deal to them?

[Tazzay]

So... a person could be gender neutral, to a degree, even if they identified as one gender or the other if they simply didn't care? If their gender wasn't that big a deal to them?

If gender isn't a big deal someone, they could identify as gender-neutral, yes.

[JavaTigress]

Thanks for clearing up my confusion on the matter, Tazzay.

[KageSora]

Androgynous means having both masculine and feminine features, while gender-neutral basically means not looking like either. It can also relate to asexual individuals, I think.

I don't see how it relates to asexuals?

 

Asexuals have a gender, unless they happen to be an agender asexual. But just being asexual doesn't have anything to do with your gender identity or presentation?

[Shienvien]

I think we might have come back to the gender != sex != sexuality side of the discussion here...

[Draikette]

Exactly.

 

Example: I'm a girl with androgynous appearance -- I don't look too feminine but also not too manly -- (grrrrr!)

 

My asexuality just means for the most part, I don't participate in any form of courtship. People are just not attractive.

 

But no really. Any of the people I had been attracted to, years and years ago, it was usually women who are obviously women. Only once, a man but they are a cross-dresser.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Draikette

[lightbird]

If gender isn't a big deal someone, they could identify as gender-neutral, yes.

So... if I get this correctly, a person can be identify with a particular gender but also be gender neutral, like, oh, I'm male/female, but don't care much about it? And therefore gender-neutral =/= agender, right?

Edited April 2, 2014 by lightbird

[Tazzay]

So... if I get this correctly, a person can be identify with a particular gender but also be gender neutral, like, oh, I'm male/female, but don't care much about it? And therefore gender-neutral =/= agender, right?

Agender is a term that describes people who lack a gender in full, or in other words, refuses to be called a specific gender. Gender neutral is when a person really doesn't care about gender in general, like how a pansexual makes no distinction between a male or female sexual partners.

 

But yes, that can be true. Although the similarity between gender-neutral and gender-fluid can be confusing to some people.

 

 

[KageSora]

I mostly just call myself "gender apathetic" when it comes to describing how strong my feelings are.

 

But it's like I have a gender (or lack thereof at times), but I have a feeling of distance between my sex and my gender, so it even when I hate my body and want to alter it to better suit how I feel I should be, the usage of pronouns based on my sex...

 

It's like, not as upsetting or triggering as other people report it being. Like there's a disconnect between my physical sex and my gender identity (and presentation), and that feeling of distance from my physical sex acts as a buffer, or something. It's...

 

I feel like I'm doing a horrible job of explaining how it actually feels, though...

[chrisburr]

I am a Male! (Unless God changes it otherwise if he so chooses of course! =))

 

But I love, pray for, and Respect all Genders just the same!

[Omen]

I guess I identify as gender neutral, I have a female body but there isn't any particular feeling of I am a woman! I am female! I do refer to myself as female in areas that require me to mention my sex, simply because there's never been a major conflict with the body I'm in. Oh sure, it'd be more convenient to have a male body (going to the bathroom on road trips would be less of a chore), however as long as I'm free to wear mens clothing, have short haircuts and have only one of my ears pierced, I don't really care about the whole having boobs and a vagina thing. Boobs? They get in the way sometimes. Menstrual cycle? Pretty inconvenient, but not gross.

 

If people call me man, dude, bro, I don't really mind either. I don't see a point in correcting them, it doesn't bother me and it'd mean they would have to apologise and just no, I don't care. Being called lady annoys me though, I'm anything but ladylike. I can deal with miss and ma'am, but I'd rather be called by my name (whether given name or surname) if people really want to call me something other than hey you.

 

As I grew up, I wasn't forced to be this way or that. As long as I wore clothes, my mother and father didn't care if those clothes were from the boys section of the clothing store. I responded better with cars, trucks, legos and other typically "boy" marketed toys, whereas pink "girly" toys didn't interest me. It was pointless buying me girly gifts, so my parents and other family members just bought neutral or boyish toys. Whether that enforced the way I am today is anyone's guess, but I'm happy with how I identify.

 

I don't think I'd be able to tell my family that I'm gender neutral though. My father's already disowned me so his opinion is inconsequential to me and for all I care he can fall off the face of the planet. As for my mother? Maybe she'd already know or have a feeling that I'm not like her other daughters, but I'm not sure if she'd understand. My full blooded siblings, all female, and very much cis-female, probably wouldn't understand either. So long as I'm still me to them, I don't feel like there's a need for them to know. Maybe if I ever get a significant other, I'd tell them, but until then, I'm happy with how I feel about my gender identity.

[Koroshiya-Ichi]

Honestly, this whole gender identity thing has turned into a huge phase for some people, and it pisses me off more than most things do.

 

Sexuality had it's moment in the spotlight for being a cool phase, now it's gender. Can't wait to see what's next. Ethnicity?

 

Anyways, I'm not putting anybody down here, I'm sure many people here are familiar with the types of people I'm referring to. They give people who identify differently from their assigned sex a bad rep.

But how can you tell the difference between the people claiming to be trans/genderqueer/etc. just as a phase, and those who genuinely identify that way?

 

But also..

I'm male. To me, there is no difference in what physical body I was born into.

I don't identify as anything.

I will be male, no questions about sex, gender, and there will be no if, ands, or buts about it.

 

When people ask what's your gender versus your assigned birth sex, I just cringe. Why should it matter? Just let me be me.

 

Isn't saying "I'm male" a self-identifying statement?

 

Sex and gender are a huge part of a person's life, and those of us falling outside the binary are faced with a lot of prejudice, discrimination, bullying, and constant reminders of how the rest of the world considers us strange at best. Why shouldn't that matter? You can still be you, and no one's forcing you to label yourself in any particular way, but I hardly think it's anything to cringe at when others bring the topic up. Perhaps I'm misunderstand what you're saying...?

[Koroshiya-Ichi]

Yeah, you did misunderstand, but I don't really want to delve further into a topic that just makes me see red, ahaha.

Welp, okay then... if you change your mind, I'd certainly be open to hearing more of your thoughts on the matter. I'm sorry that it makes you angry though.

[KageSora]

For someone who has struggled with gender identity since he was only 10 years old, this topic causes a lot of mixed feelings to arise...and most of it is anger.

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm not putting anybody down here, I'm sure many people here are familiar with the types of people I'm referring to. They give people who identify differently from their assigned sex a bad rep.

 

But also..

I'm male. To me, there is no difference in what physical body I was born into.

I don't identify as anything.

I will be male, no questions about sex, gender, and there will be no if, ands, or buts about it.

 

When people ask what's your gender versus your assigned birth sex, I just cringe. Why should it matter? Just let me be me.

 

End somewhat ranty post.

You mean the "special snowflake syndrom" people, right?

 

The people who have a new identity every week because something new and shiny caught their attention and they just want attention so they have a "insert whatever" phase, etc.?

 

Distinctly different from those who are experimenting with what label fits them best or those who have a legitimate identity shift (since it's not always set in stone for everybody!), these sorts are more obvious in how they usually exemplify one (but usually more) of the following:

• Have a victim complex--even when a person is NOT attacking them they take everything as some kind of attack on their identity, much in the way a person with a paper cut goes on about how they're "dying" and "tell my loved ones I'll miss them" when they're being overdramatic.
• Have little to no understanding of the identity/identities they claim, and are viciously resistant to education on the matter
• Change at the drop of a hat, and not in a usual "it can be an abrupt shift" way but in a "this change conveniently coincides with [insert whatever] catching a lot more attention in the media/what community you're in" kind of way (trust me, there's a different feel than those who are "HEY! THAT'S IT! THAT DESCRIBES ME HOLY CRAP I FINALLY FOUND SOMETHING THAT EXPLAINS THE WAY I AM")
• Are often slacktivists for whatever cause they've decided to adopt, usually forgetting about any others once those have stopped getting them social brownie points (as in, I'm only going to share what my facebook feed says and screech at anybody calling me out for misinformation and will never discuss the matter beyond that--NOT as in "I honestly don't have the resources to do much more than signal boost this at the moment", trust me there's a different feel when you see 'em side by side)
• Always seem to need to make everything about them
• Have the need to one-up everybody else constantly

While I often see it in younger people (during the "I'm a teen and I NEED to feel special" phase that many people go through), it becomes a more serious problem when people refuse to grow out of it and insist on spreading misinformation and poorly representing the group(s) they're claiming to identify with. (Not that it isn't a problem during the more expected "must be special" phase, it's still problematic because it perpetuates negative ideas and misinformation, but it's even more problematic when they refuse to grow out of it. Much the way problematic behavior in anybody is bad but it gets worse when they refuse to ever improve themselves)

 

(And trust me, for the above there is a very separate feel from them and the people who honestly are just trying to find their identity or are undergoing a shift. It's hard to put into words but when you see them side by side it's clear as night and day)

 

 

People like the above described bug the heck outta me, they just hurt the causes they latch on to more than they help or more than they learn...

Edited October 6, 2014 by KageSora

[Obscure_Trash]

But how can you tell the difference between the people claiming to be trans/genderqueer/etc. just as a phase, and those who genuinely identify that way?

Does it really matter? So someone identifies as something one week, hears some alternatives, and thinks they may actually identify as something else. THE HORRORS

 

But no, really, I'd really appreciate it if we didn't demonize people, especially younger folk, who are just figuring out who they are just because they don't act like you want them to. You demonize every questioning and confused people, intent on showing that some people out there are "faking", and all you manage to do is hurt people who are "genuinely" confused or questioning and make it harder for them to come out.

[KageSora]

Does it really matter? So someone identifies as something one week, hears some alternatives, and thinks they may actually identify as something else. THE HORRORS

 

But no, really, I'd really appreciate it if we didn't demonize people, especially younger folk, who are just figuring out who they are just because they don't act like you want them to. You demonize every questioning and confused people, intent on showing that some people out there are "faking", and all you manage to do is hurt people who are "genuinely" confused or questioning and make it harder for them to come out.

There's a difference between "Oh, hey, this new thing might describe me better" when you're exploring your identity and "I think I'll call myself this for a while because I want to be popular and this is what people are talking about now".

 

Basically the people who treat things like gender, sexuality, mental illness, etc. as the latest fashion trend, and switch to whatever's "in" at the time.

 

These people are also, in my experience, often jerks. And they actively do a lot of harm towards acceptance, because people who have run-ins with them, from what I've seen, tend to come off with a higher rate of deciding everybody who's trans, for example, is just faking it to get attention an all they have to do to stop transphobia is stop pretending to be something other than how they physically appear to others.

 

(These sorts are usually more easy to spot--they're usually fairly obvious, and a decent number of them are intentionally trolling and it shows--unless you're an outsider to the idea of, say, gender identity being something other than cisgender and they're your first exposure to it)

Edited October 7, 2014 by KageSora

[Obscure_Trash]

There's a difference between "Oh, hey, this new thing might describe me better" when you're exploring your identity and "I think I'll call myself this for a while because I want to be popular and this is what people are talking about now".

 

Basically the people who treat things like gender, sexuality, mental illness, etc. as the latest fashion trend, and switch to whatever's "in" at the time.

 

These people are also, in my experience, often jerks. And they actively do a lot of harm towards acceptance, because people who have run-ins with them, from what I've seen, tend to come off with a higher rate of deciding everybody who's trans, for example, is just faking it to get attention an all they have to do to stop transphobia is stop pretending to be something other than how they physically appear to others.

 

(These sorts are usually more easy to spot--they're usually fairly obvious, and a decent number of them are intentionally trolling and it shows--unless you're an outsider to the idea of, say, gender identity being something other than cisgender and they're your first exposure to it)

So is calling them preferred pronouns/etc. really going to hurt things, though? Does that demean the identity? No, they shouldn't be jerks, but honestly, I know a lot more people afraid to come out, a lot more people who don't even know the terms, than I do people who wear them like a fashion statement.