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[Fuzzbucket]

I'm the one who usually stares at warn in hope it'll disappear Guess I just give to much attention to it. I also thought that you guys write something new every time.

Stands alongside and stares wishfully at that 10%....

 

Socky, you didn't come across as a brat - I was going to respond last night and then the forum fell over and now you have taken it out.

 

But I have EVERY sympathy A mod's job is NOT a happy one.

[urge101]

Agreed Fuzz.

 

Sometimes a mod's job isn't a walk in the park. Eggspam, stupidism, etc. can get very frustrating, and it's easy to start getting real picky. That's why i didn'tsign up for a mod job. Perhaps next year, when i have become a full DC jedi

[Natayah]

I would like to know what exactly do you guys consider a "club "? I had an idea turned down because it was felt it created a club. I have no issue with that as if I was really dedicated to the idea I'd have resubmitted a reworked idea and obviously I haven't!! I just was very confused as to what this forum defines as a club because I couldn't wrap my brain around that even being related. So I would like to know to avoid it in the future.

 

Also I'd like to ask for it to be considered that on forums where all topics must be pre-approved, that if an idea is declined, instead of including just why it was not approved, also include a quick suggestion of what they may want to consider working on. Now I know we just finished a discussion of how much extra work the mods currently have. But from my understanding of the process the ideas are discussed with at least one other person. So at some point in the conversation, something must have come up with what was missing or what was needed or if it just completely contradicts the theme of this game or whatnot. And many declines have self evident answers. Like if something is too similar to threads that already exist, the obvious fix is to look at the threads that do exist and find a way to better distinguish and be different than what already exists. Or perhaps maybe the creation of a player based group who are well familiar with the process that could assist and offer feedback to others may be a better idea.

 

Again, this is not based on my personal experience because I have to submit proposals all day long for my work and consulting and non profit stuff. If I was very passionate about an idea I would be fine. But there are many younger players who may not have that experience. They have the time and willingness and dedication for a project, but maybe not how to organize, draft and pitch it. Additionally, this would be providing a real irl applicable skill set. So if the

mods are busy, can some players pitch in to mentor and offer feedback on the idea / project submission process??

 

ETA: This may also be helpful for players who have a great idea that really takes off but not the time necessary to handle it on their own. Teaching them how to pick a team to assist instead of just letting it die due to lack of time or experience would be avoided with this resource.

[RainDear]

I would like to know what exactly do you guys consider a "club "? I had an idea turned down because it was felt it created a club. I have no issue with that as if I was really dedicated to the idea I'd have resubmitted a reworked idea and obviously I haven't!! I just was very confused as to what this forum defines as a club because I couldn't wrap my brain around that even being related. So I would like to know to avoid it in the future.

 

Also I'd like to ask for it to be considered that on forums where all topics must be pre-approved, that if an idea is declined, instead of including just why it was not approved, also include a quick suggestion of what they may want to consider working on. Now I know we just finished a discussion of how much extra work the mods currently have. But from my understanding of the process the ideas are discussed with at least one other person. So at some point in the conversation, something must have come up with what was missing or what was needed or if it just completely contradicts the theme of this game or whatnot. And many declines have self evident answers. Like if something is too similar to threads that already exist, the obvious fix is to look at the threads that do exist and find a way to better distinguish and be different than what already exists. Or perhaps maybe the creation of a player based group who are well familiar with the process that could assist and offer feedback to others may be a better idea.

 

Again, this is not based on my personal experience because I have to submit proposals all day long for my work and consulting and non profit stuff. If I was very passionate about an idea I would be fine. But there are many younger players who may not have that experience. They have the time and willingness and dedication for a project, but maybe not how to organize, draft and pitch it. Additionally, this would be providing a real irl applicable skill set. So if the

mods are busy, can some players pitch in to mentor and offer feedback on the idea / project submission process??

 

ETA: This may also be helpful for players who have a great idea that really takes off but not the time necessary to handle it on their own. Teaching them how to pick a team to assist instead of just letting it die due to lack of time or experience would be avoided with this resource.

In a situation where you don't fully understand the mod's communication, you can pm the moderator involved and ask for more information. If you want player feedback, you can post in the Help forum and ask the player base for help.

[arlymaye]

I would like to know what exactly do you guys consider a "club "? I had an idea turned down because it was felt it created a club.

Is a *club* not allowed in DC? Just curious since this is the first time I've heard of this.

[_Z_]

A club or group that excludes members (you have to be a member of to post), is not allowed in SD.

[olympe]

So, is this about an adult section for SD? Just curious.

[_Z_]

Adult section? This is for Site discussions and its sub-forums. We have had the rule for along time.

Rules/ Guidelines, for Site Discussion/Sub-forums.

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=32652

Topics not allowed in Site Discussions.

 

1. Rant/Vent topics.

2. Chat topics.

3. Members goodbye topics or member returning topics.

4. Clubs.

A club or group that excludes members (you have to be a member of to post)

[Natayah]

Ok, I'm glad for the clarification and glad I had nothing to do with it. However, while this rule seems pretty self evident, do established role play threads not count as clubs then? Because once they are started not just anyone can post. I guess some games would count as well. Or are in progress games exempt from that rule?

[_Z_]

Ok, I'm glad for the clarification and glad I had nothing to do with it. However, while this rule seems pretty self evident, do established role play threads not count as clubs then? Because once they are started not just anyone can post. I guess some games would count as well. Or are in progress games exempt from that rule?

The RP and game sections are not a part of SD, you will need to read the guidelines for those sections.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Apparently just making posts saying "support" or such aren't allowed anymore? If so that's absurd, people should be able to make general statements of support without being required to add an explanation as to why. Knowing general public opinion is important, you know, and not every topic has a poll in which to wordlessly do so. :/

[Pokemonfan13]

Since when?

 

For me it's people who do not support a suggestion that should explain, especially when they're the only dissenter.

 

The reasons for supporting a suggestion are obvious: you like the idea. The reasons for not supporting are not obvious, and if specific reasons are given they can be addressed, if no reasons are given then nothing can be done to make the suggestion more appealing.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Since when?

 

For me it's people who do not support a suggestion that should explain, especially when they're the only dissenter.

 

The reasons for supporting a suggestion are obvious: you like the idea. The reasons for not supporting are not obvious, and if specific reasons are given they can be addressed, if no reasons are given then nothing can be done to make the suggestion more appealing.

I was rooting around the BSA section and saw this. Look at the 3rd and 4th comments: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=146279

Both supporting comments. Two different people. Posted yesterday, edits made suggest they got warned for just making general support statements.

[TJ09]

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=82168

Do not post just to say "I like this idea"

The goal of this section is to develop ideas for Breed-specific Actions. You're free to comment on how a specific BSA will affect the balance of the game or what you feel is wrong with an idea, but just posting "WANT" is spam and will earn you a warning. However, we encourage the use of polls. You can either do "New Poll" when creating your topic or use the "Attach New Poll" black text button above the edit and quote buttons on your first post.

 

Not a forum rule, only a BSA-section-specific rule. It's in a pinned topic, there's no reason for users not to know about it.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=82168

 

 

Not a forum rule, only a BSA-section-specific rule. It's in a pinned topic, there's no reason for users not to know about it.

Why would you allow such statements for general suggestions and dragon requests but not BSAs? That doesn't make any sense...

[Pokemonfan13]

And that's why I think all BSA threads should have a public opinion poll, that way people aren't tempted to post "Support!".

[TJ09]

Because there are different sets of criteria for evaluating whether or not a BSA is viable vs a site suggestion. I'll explain more later; I have to go somewhere.

 

And that's why I think all BSA threads should have a public opinion poll, that way people aren't tempted to post "Support!".

People still will, IMO.

[TheGrox]

I still don't get it.

 

If there is no poll, there is no accurate way to gauge people's opinion on a topic. You can't just let people who dislike the idea post about how much they dislike it, whilst not allowing people to just post that they are in support of it. I for one wouldn't want to bother the OP by going to the trouble of PMing then and asking them to make a poll, either.

 

I think I agree with PF13, though TJ is right that some people still would, I don't see that as a big problem, nor should it be a warn-able offence.

Edited February 3, 2013 by TheGrox

[Ashywolf]

 

People still will, IMO.

This ^

[skauble]

Why would you allow such statements for general suggestions and dragon requests but not BSAs? That doesn't make any sense...

I don't know what the rationale is behind the rule or the criteria differences between the two sections, but I will say that I agree with Pokemonfan13 that a poll in every post would be nice for people who simply want to support the idea as opposed to a post.

 

But I would suspect that the absence of "Support/Don't support" posts encourages people who do choose to reply to follow the lead of the other posts and flesh out why it would or wouldn't work in specifics. The BSA suggestions often undergo a lot of changes and fine tuning; this way, if it's a "don't support" the more detailed response mean those reasons can then be addressed, and it's a "do support", those aspects that can be kept even if the idea changes over time.

 

Because the BSAs can affect the fundamental mechanics of how game play is structured, as opposed to some of the general suggestions like scroll organization, lineage recommendations, biome content, etc., and because they need to be dragon breed specific in a logical way, and they're also user controlled rather than site wide implementation, it's probably good to have people spell out what they do and don't like and why. Take the fertility idea for a probably poor example since it's just off the top of my very tired head. lol If fertility were changed so that it could provide multi-clutches, there are many reasons people could support it. I heard a number of people talk about wanting them back simply because they liked them; they thought they were a fun part of the game. Some people thought it would increase their chances of getting rares. Other people wanted them because they felt that it would give them a better chance at getting the breed they wanted - a huge help for lineage builders.

 

Those specifics are actually really good to know, because if it was decided that multi-clutches might pose to much of a problem to population control or ratio balance (which I'm not saying that it would), the idea of increasing the odds of breed determination could be kept in mind if another dragon was one day released that could logically have that ability.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

One problem I see with adding a poll to every suggestion, is that there is often much debate and discussion and changes made before a concensus is reached. If the poll only reflects the topic as it was originally posted, it might not be accurate once the idea is fine tuned.

 

I think what would be better, is that after a certain amount of discussion or a more informed idea has been hashed out, that a NEW thread gets made with a poll attached to it. Rather than having an inaccurate poll from the beginning... and allowing for better understanding of what is actually being voted on.

[Ashes The Second]

One problem I see with adding a poll to every suggestion, is that there is often much debate and discussion and changes made before a concensus is reached. If the poll only reflects the topic as it was originally posted, it might not be accurate once the idea is fine tuned.

 

I think what would be better, is that after a certain amount of discussion or a more informed idea has been hashed out, that a NEW thread gets made with a poll attached to it. Rather than having an inaccurate poll from the beginning... and allowing for better understanding of what is actually being voted on.

Yes. I found it absurd that people will get warned for something that silly -- I'll do it no matter what mods say. You can't control every aspect, and if you want to, at lest clarify why. Quite frankly, the staff should take a chill pill on the whole 'YOU MUST DO THIS. OR ELSE, NO WARNING WILL BE MADE, YOU BROKE A RULE, YOU /WILL NOT/ GET A PM ABOUT IT AT THE VERY LEAST.'

 

It's just the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time, and it turns people away from structured discussions. Not everyone has the time to post anything besides 'I support'. Just deal with the content as it is, not control it. Otherwise, this might as well be CS, and it might as well be the rp section. //shudder.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Ashes The Second

[Obscure_Trash]

If people do not have the time to post, then they do not need to be posting. They can come back to the topic later. Subscribe or bookmark it if you're interested.

 

It's really hard to see how a BSA should be worked out if crit is buried in between piles of "+1"! There are important game mechanics that adding BSAs can change or mess with. If you really want to support a thread but absolutely cannot think of any way whatsoever the BSA will effect the game, then PM the OP and ask them to provide a poll so that you may show your support that way.

 

Users are always talking about how community on here - so why are we so afraid to PM other users about their topic or if we want to chat about a post or whatnot? =(

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Because the BSAs can affect the fundamental mechanics of how game play is structured, as opposed to some of the general suggestions like scroll organization, lineage recommendations, biome content, etc., and because they need to be dragon breed specific in a logical way, and they're also user controlled rather than site wide implementation, it's probably good to have people spell out what they do and don't like and why.

But things in the requests forum can often change the game much more then things in the BSA suggestion section (how are biome content and lineage viewing NOT fairly big game changes? O___o). I'm looking at the BSA section and the normal requests section right now, and the top three items in each are, respectively:

BSAs

- Add one day to a hatchling's time

- Protect an egg from sickness for a day

- Ability to remove sickness

 

Whereas in normal suggestions:

- Add a half-hour unblocked cave period

- Move pygmies around in biomes

- Let UVs breed purples

 

I'd say that the normal suggestions would have more impact on the game then those BSA suggestions, or at the very least, about the same level of impact... although in general the suggestions area often has ideas of much, much more import than does the BSA section (seriously, the BSA area moves at a snail's pace most of the time, which suggests to me that nothing going on over there is particularly game-changing). As such, I still really don't get why it's ok in the normal suggestions thread but not in the BSA one.

 

It's really hard to see how a BSA should be worked out if crit is buried in between piles of "+1"! There are important game mechanics that adding BSAs can change or mess with.

 

But, again, this happens in the normal suggestions area all the time and it has never seemed to impede progress. It's very easy to skip over the general posts, and sometimes they're even useful in bumping up a neglected thread or showing off general mood.

 

I guess my real complaint here is that I still think warns are handed out too liberally. As I mentioned earlier, I think warns should only be handed out when people are being /really bad./ Making a post that's not quite the focus of the thread, but where you can still see the connection, or being sarcastic, or posting "1+" to show you really like an idea shouldn't get you slapped with a warn.

 

Like today I got this...

 

  Spam: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=6934819

QUOTE (angelicdragonpuppy @ Jan 31 2013, 07:34 PM)

Since the entire purpose of this thread was to speculate about how they'll look, I don't think so .png

 

Adds nothing to the topic or discussion. Please take chat to PM.

 

Over in the "I wonder what the sprites will look like" thread, people had started talking about whether it'd be good or bad if they had dimorphism, and someone else posted along the lines of "hey guys, isn't this getting off topic?" So I posted the above post--thinking it'd be helpful to, you know, everyone who was chatting about dimorphism--and I got slapped with a warn for spam and told that apparently the person was talking about something else... buah? ;______; Everything I remember about the post says it was asking if discussing potential dimorphism in the sprites was ok to talk about, but it looks like my post was deleted so I can't even find the other post now. lc

 

C'mon mods, save the warns for people who are being incredibly nasty or posting things like "I like waffles!" in the middle of suggestion threads or the like. All these warns over petty, innocent things aren't likely to curb the 'offending' behavior (because I'm guessing most people won't even realize when they do such a thing again, because it's nothing that'd register as being 'wrong,' warn for something similar or not), make people feel like they've done something bad and make others nervous about posting freely.

Edited February 3, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[HeatherMarie]

I COMPLETELY agree that if you have that "no 'support!' posts" rule in the BSA subsection, it makes NO SENSE to not have it in the general Suggestion area and Dragon Requests as well.

 

It's really hard to see how a BSA should be worked out if crit is buried in between piles of "+1"! There are important game mechanics that adding BSAs can change or mess with.

That EXACT same thing can be said for the other Request sections. Things have to be worked out, fleshed out, and how can you do that if you allow tons of "support!" posts? With Dragon Requests, when users are trying to work on sprites and redlining and anatomy, a handful of "support!" posts could completely throw the thread off. So why on earth is it only a RULE for the BSA section, if it's an ISSUE for all the Request sections? It smacks of someone making rules without thinking them through.

 

To a lesser extent, I also agree about the Warns. I've never gotten a Warn that I felt was unfair, but I've been here long enough to know that it's not always like that. For instance, if a thread is started (possibly by a newbie) and a few people reply, and then the thread is closed as Spam, are the people who replied warned, even though they didn't know it was spam?

With angelicdragonpuppy's warn, if there is a specific topic, and you add a reply that specifically references what the topic was made for, how on EARTH is that "chat" or warnable? It seems she was answering a post wondering if the thread was getting off-topic, and saying that no, that's actually what the thread is about. Did the person asking if the thread was off-topic get a warn, too, since his post obviously didn't "add anything to the discussion"?? I'd love to know that.