We want Forum Feedback!

[earthgirl]

Looks like it's gotten better for me. I've had an overload screen once this morning, but otherwise the forum worked okay. But then, I didn't skim today as much as other days.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Yesterday was bad; continual lag and getting that overload message several times. Today was better, but still not as it should be.. the lag was still percetable and constant, regardless of what I was trying to do. Best thing I can say about today, is that nothing actually failed, it was just slow.

[Rally Vincent]

Will the Raffle Rethink Thread be reopened, or will you like always just rely on the short attention span of DCF users to have their minds set on other topics and forget that discussion was once again cut down?

 

"We want Forum Feedback" - with exclamation mark! Well, you had Forum Feedback several times regarding closing threads. But not only that nothing changes, we never get to hear an explanation why you think closing threads and prematurely ending discussions - very active discussions - is a good course of action.

 

So, my actual Forum Feedback is - why have a forum feedback thread when feedback is neither welcome nor dealt with?

[TJ09]

Will the Raffle Rethink Thread be reopened, or will you like always just rely on the short attention span of DCF users to have their minds set on other topics and forget that discussion was once again cut down?

 

"We want Forum Feedback" - with exclamation mark! Well, you had Forum Feedback several times regarding closing threads. But not only that nothing changes, we never get to hear an explanation why you think closing threads and prematurely ending discussions - very active discussions - is a good course of action.

 

So, my actual Forum Feedback is - why have a forum feedback thread when feedback is neither welcome nor dealt with?

It's funny that you ignored several posts explaining exactly why things happen.

[TJ09]

Yesterday was bad; continual lag and getting that overload message several times. Today was better, but still not as it should be.. the lag was still percetable and constant, regardless of what I was trying to do. Best thing I can say about today, is that nothing actually failed, it was just slow.

I am working on obtaining new hardware for the forums. The reason for the silence is that I hoped to have had it set up by now (and thus an announcement would have been posted today or tomorrow), but hardware failures mean that the whole thing has been delayed.

[Rally Vincent]

It's funny that you ignored several posts explaining exactly why things happen.

I have yet to see an explanation why threads are getting punished, not the individual users. If I overlooked one, I'll gladly let me link to it and read it very carefully.

[Fuzzbucket]

I am working on obtaining new hardware for the forums. The reason for the silence is that I hoped to have had it set up by now (and thus an announcement would have been posted today or tomorrow), but hardware failures mean that the whole thing has been delayed.

Thanks for telling us. It has been - scary ! Now at least we know it is being looked into.

[PointOfOrigin]

I am working on obtaining new hardware for the forums. The reason for the silence is that I hoped to have had it set up by now (and thus an announcement would have been posted today or tomorrow), but hardware failures mean that the whole thing has been delayed.

*Throws confetti in the air* Thank you!

[Obscure_Trash]

Read through the several pages added to this thread and replying to things in no particular order:

 

-We used to have auto-pyramid quotes (where if you quoted a post that was replying to a quoted post, you would then have two quotes nested in your post). We ended up with extraneously long pyramids of quotes of 10 nested (and unnecessary quotes). It made many posts loooong, especially with parts of the quotes that didn't have to do with the discussion carried on were left alone and when you were doing this for large posts and not splitting anything up. It got to a point, especially in GD, where it was just rather spammy to allow these pyramid quotes. I agree that it would be nice to up the limit so that we can auto-pyramid quote a quote within what we're quoting, but I don't think larger than that is necessary. ^^

 

-The multi-quote where you click posts you want to quote is sooooooo nice and I would love the option, but I believe it's only available if the forum is updated.

 

-Not really sure about Suggestions/Requests guidelines. We already have so many sections where users have to read extra stickys even if they know the board rules to make sure they understand how to post in the section. I don't really want to attach that to S/R, as well as I don't want to add another sticky to this section. I know, I know, I am guilty of some of the most and the longest stickys, but I really do understand how this is overwhelming and a lot to remember. I have periodically visited other sticky's to see how I can shorten them. I'm not good at it, but I do realize how overwhelming it is and if I can avoid another sticky, I'd love that. Besides that, I think mostly the things that would go in the sticky would really be redundant, anyway. ^^

 

-I can see how being able to see when a user was last online would be helpful. Not sure if that requires an update, too? I know we had the online marker once, so maybe not, but that also came with some bugs, so who knows? x3 As long as it wouldn't show up for users who choose anon when they log on.

 

-Oops. Thanks for the reminder on how to use your browsers find feature in the FAQ, PF. :3

 

-And onto this whole blown up "mods don't deal with offenders, they just shut down discussions" stuff... Hooboy.

 

Uh, we do deal with offenders...?

 

I can't even count how many reports we received over the raffle thread. At least 40, I believe. There was so much rudeness, name calling, snipping, arguing (rather than debating) from so many users. Mods close threads so we can take care of them. When you have a popular thread (45 pages for me to read through all in one go!) and people are posting quicker than you can warn, the thread needs closed so that you can warn offenders without worrying about continuing offenses. After closing a thread we may see that it has 2 pages of discussion and 43 pages of degenerative bickering and fighting. Is that a discussion thread? No. It's not. Is it constructive in any way? No. It's not. Is that something that will convince us to re-open it? No. It's not.

 

If you see a thread that mods have promised to re-open and it's been a few days and they haven't - PM someone (that mod and another sectional or global)! Once I closed a thread and it stayed closed almost a week because I was unable to get on DCF due to school and other mods didn't realize it was still closed. Members finally PM'd a mod asking what the heck was up and the thread was re-opened. Perhaps the mod is away or they have forgotten. PM and ask about it. Perhaps mods discussed and decided not to re-open a thread but then forgot to post in the thread and let mods know. PM and ask. Stewing in negativity believing that mods are just trying to treat you like a child does nothing. Ask and see if a mod will re-open the thread, if things are still being discussed, or perhaps the mod will be reminded that they need to post and let members know what the conclusion was.

 

As TJ posted, yeah, we're allowed to close threads if we deem it necessary, whether that closure be temporary or permanent. If you are confused as to the mod's conclusion or disagree with it, calmly PM the mod and either ask for clarification or ask for a different decision based on x facts you have. You may receive clarification or further explanation on why the thread was closed. The thread may be re-opened. If you hear back from the mod and disagree and believe the conversation with the mod isn't helping, PM TJ and let him know. TJ does talk to us mods over user concerns. If he agrees with you and disagrees with us, he'll discuss, and appropriate steps will be taken.

 

Reasons threads may be closed even if not all members have degraded to rudeness and name calling:

-The majority of users participating have been throwing insults or being rude, in which case the thread is treated as if against board rules

-The thread has grown vastly (example TJ posted a thread growing 18 pages in less than a day) and mods can't keep up with how quickly posts are being added

-Mods are being overwhelmed with reports and need time to catch up on all the reports from the thread

-The tone of the thread has gone down the drain and even users who aren't being rude and beginning to get frustrated (closing forces users to take a breather and come back with calmer heads)

-The majority of the thread is breaking board rules, in which case the thread is treated as if against board rules

 

Most the time when a thread is closed, mods were not on during the time the rudeness was going on, so mods were not able to warn at the time of the offense. Yes, we do take care of individual offenders, but when we come on to an 18 page thread that wasn't there when we went to bed and end up warning more than a dozen users more than once? That's a lot to catch up on and it did nothing to stop the user at the time. Allowing the thread to go on seems like the behavior is being tolerated, so a lot of the time a mod may close the thread for three reasons:

-Give themselves time to go through the thread, actually read posts, and take care of the individual offenders you are taking care of without having to worry about finding 10 more new pages in the time it took to go through those 18 pages they had to read. This also gives users time to take a breather and calm down and come back after having time to think about how to calmly word their next post.

-Let users know that the behavior that dominated for the last 14 pages of the thread isn't acceptable and is being taken care of. This also gives a reminder to users, especially if they see that their behavior got the thread closed and earned them a warning, that they need to think about how their posts sound and what is acceptable behavior in the thread and especially gives them time if they end up with a warning.

-Makes sure their verbal warning is visible. Sometimes handing out warns would result in warns high enough to warrant banning users - but is that really fair, to ban an otherwise rule following member for losing control for a while when no mods were on to diffuse the situation earlier? Yes, they deserve consequences, but mods may tone down what they warn when circumstances are similar to this. They may warn the more serious posts and leave the verbal warning to let users know they need to tone it down overall. In threads that move that fast, users can and do often miss the mod warnings, especially if they don't read the whole thread because of how fast it moves.

 

What you see as punishment for everyone is mods doing their job as they are able. Forums aren't just in real life time. What is said in the past stays around and that all falls under stuff that mods need to take care of. Especially in the help thread right now, we kind of have a lack of moderation activity, so if popular threads pop up here and users are breaking the rules, we may have to deal with them more slowly, which could mean more closures, temporary or permanent. Unfortunately, moderating offending users in a quick paced thread works best when mods catch it sooner rather than later, so when a mod isn't on when the offenses are occurring, it complicates things and may leave the thread more rule breaking than not.

 

I also encourage users to report any rule breaking they see. Don't mini-mod the thread. Don't be rude back. Don't name call back. Use the report button. If the situation is escalating and you've reported and a mod isn't coming on the thread, see if a sectional or global is on and PM them. If not, see if any mod is on and PM them and ask them to step in. When we've had more mods, locating a sectional or global when needed hasn't been too much of a problem, but when there are less active mods... Other sections should feel comfortable enough that, when no other mods are on and a situation needs taken care of, they can, at the least, post in the thread with a verbal warning. If things escalate from there, they should hand out warnings. I know it's really weird for some sectionals to feel comfortable stepping up in another section, but we are a team and we are here for each other. When I was a help mod, I talked often with the GD mods, as I was online nearly all the time and diffused a few situations in GD to the point where the GD mods could get on later and go back and warn offenders and take care of the situation as necessary. So don't be afraid to PM any mod that's on, even if you can't find a sectional for the correct section or a global isn't on. And hopefully this can help future situations that crop up.

 

That was all rather ramble-y, but I hope I managed to address all the points I was trying to. :3

 

EDIT: I know what I wanted to say! About the IOU thread here in suggestions - I never received any PMs about people wanting to be the new OP. =(

 

And, reading through more of the raffle thread, huge amounts of the thread are off-topic. Somewhere in the first few pages things got away from the suggestion and the thread became a discussion on something else completely. Off-topic is spam and when most the thread is spam, the thread is deemed spam and closed. The thread was about how to make the raffle and prize system more fair, not about arguing about how users should act with their own scrolls or getting defensive about playing styles.

I'll also point out that the thread received 5 verbal warnings (not counting the final warning) from two different mods. One mod warned they would perma-close the thread if the arguing couldn't stop. The thread was closed so users could see the warning at least twice before being permanently closed. This was all in addition to official warnings. The closures and warnings prompted no difference in behavior that I can see. D:

Edited January 10, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Fuzzbucket]

Thank you Socky - that all makes a lot of sense. As one who got a warn for spamming in the raffle thread (I think that was where I got it) I'd say fair cop - in fact I deleted the post as soon as I copped the warn as - well, it WAS a fair cop.

 

I actually think the mod should have deleted it herself.... I have NO quarrel with that happening. It served no point at all. I was just bored with - yes - the level of non-discussion - and it was silly. That does happen and wastes space and mod time - and derails threads.

[Rally Vincent]

Thanks Sock for giving an explanation and an overview to the modding guidelines. I disagree with several thoughts/reasonings, but given the latest circumstances, I'm not going to elaborate on any of this.

[HeatherMarie]

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain all of that, Sock. I don't know about other users, but personally I feel better knowing that things are being done, worked with, figured out, behind the scenes, even when all we see is a closed thread.

[Obscure_Trash]

Well, I'm glad my explanation helped clear things up, but I am sorry that there are several things you disagree with in there, Rally. If you wish, you can PM me what you disagree with and perhaps with what you'd like to see. I'd be happy to bring it to mods as a discussion point. ^^

[Anna Selka]

Thanks Sock for giving an explanation and an overview to the modding guidelines. I disagree with several thoughts/reasonings, but given the latest circumstances, I'm not going to elaborate on any of this.

+1

 

It is nice to know that there is a reasoning and a system behind all of this, but I still disagree with several thoughts/reasonings. And given how much I am liked around here, I also think there is no point in elaborating on this.

 

This is a large part of why I left 3 years ago. I came back thinking things had got better, but lately I am left wondering.

[Rally Vincent]

I am positively surprised that the IOU trade discussion has been reallowed. Thank you.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Rally Vincent

[Thuban]

Suggestion: Allow similar ideas to exist as their own threads.

 

Right now, it seems that posts that are along similar lines are often merged with whatever the first idea was, or the post with the most activity. I think that multiple similar threads that are /slightly/ different from one another should be allowed, at least for a short while.

 

Reason: Sometimes the ideas posted are rather similar to others, but have a small twist. For example, in DR, sometimes there are dragon concepts that are rather similar to one another. Even if the basic idea may be the same, its often one small detail that sets one apart from the other (carnivore vs vegetarian..or a slight color or habitat difference). I believe that suggestions for the forum should have time to be worked out in their own threads before merging them all into one thread.

 

IOU thread for example. Since there is already one iou topic in place.. anyone who makes new posts for explanding on an idea that may or may not have been brought up risks their post being merged into the existing one (increasing traffic and discussions in one post, burying other ideas that come up) or their post being removed as a duplicate. I think if one post is being used for collecting ideas, then posts to work out details of those ideas should be able to exist. Often, those ideas may need their own thread to work out the details that would be asked for in the main "idea gathering" post without spamming up the original post.

[TheGrox]

I agree with Thuban, Support. =3

[earthgirl]

I'd love to have a function to be able to see who visited a certain topic recently, like in the last hour/2 hours/3 hours/day etc.

Or maybe at least make the number of visits clickable, just like the number of posts.

[HeatherMarie]

Completely agree with Thuban.

[TheGrox]

I don't see why not... Although I don't see what use it would be really? Why would we need something like that, earthgirl? c:

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't see why not... Although I don't see what use it would be really? Why would we need something like that, earthgirl? c:

That was my original thought - and then I remembered a thread where the OP - well, let us just say it would have been nice to know if they had abandoned it or were just waiting to see if anyone COULD be persuaded to buy into it all.... One just had no idea if they had just given up on it all. This way we'd have known if they were reading it any more !

[earthgirl]

I've seen many forums that have it and sometimes one gets curious to see who visited theirs or other important topic.

Some people can get really curious. c:

 

Also, you might want to know if a certain user has read said topic at a certain time after you made a post.

Edited January 12, 2013 by earthgirl

[Tawanda001]

I think that would make me go anonymous. I can see wanting to see who is on a thread at the same time, but wanting to see if they were ever on a thread is sort of creepy, stalking creepy.

Not to mention, some of us are a little clutzy with the mouse and wind up on threads we will swear we didn't click on.

[olympe]

As in, "Big Brother Forum is watching you"?

 

Edit: Crossposted, reply meant for Earthgirl's post.

Edited January 13, 2013 by olympe

[KageSora]

I like Thuban's idea. :3 that sounds useful.