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[Saloiq]

I'd like the "get new post" button to always lead to the newest post. I've noticed that if I don't visit the forum for a few days, when I click the red circle, I just go to the last page instead of the last post instead of where I left off.

[mishhelle]

I have an IPB and I did not like upgrading to v3. There are MAJOR changes to the Admin CP, so much that it took me months to get familiar with it again--not that I'm dumb, I just didn't have much time to dedicate to figure it out.

 

I hate that there's no notepad like there was in older versions, and the profiles make me think of Facebook where you can add friends, make comments, etc. You can also sign into your account with your Twitter username, but I never tried it.

 

I like that there are spoiler tag codes, and the multi-quote button is very useful. ETA...there are message tracker options on all profiles in v3, so that is something that would not go away. You just may need to customize the board to have some sort of a notepad.

Edited November 24, 2011 by mxtine

[StormWizard212]

IPB 2.3.x has known security holes and has reached its end-of-life, so they no longer allow you to download it.

Damn, that's a real shame. Is staying on the current version and just updating/adding specific features an option? What's the main reason you're looking at upgrading the forum software, TJ? Maybe there are other solutions people could come up with that would allow us to stay where we are now, but solve any problems you've been having.

[Amur_Rama]

I have to say I really like the PWOT forum's design. It has pretty much everything that everyone wants (except for multi-quote, though if you're patient, it will let you section out quotes that belong to different members and label them accordingly).

 

I haven't sat to look at what version it is, but it runs on MySQL and PHP which does allow for a lot of nifty features to be added in. So unless we're "stuck" using a free forum, whatever they use might be a good alternative.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have an IPB and I did not like upgrading to v3. There are MAJOR changes to the Admin CP, so much that it took me months to get familiar with it again--not that I'm dumb, I just didn't have much time to dedicate to figure it out.

 

I hate that there's no notepad like there was in older versions, and the profiles make me think of Facebook where you can add friends, make comments, etc. You can also sign into your account with your Twitter username, but I never tried it.

 

I like that there are spoiler tag codes, and the multi-quote button is very useful. ETA...there are message tracker options on all profiles in v3, so that is something that would not go away. You just may need to customize the board to have some sort of a notepad.

The message tracker thing - the admin on our forum was told they simply didn't support tracking any more.... So.... (not that you have "messages" any more - they have turned into ICKY "conversations")

[Nine]

I'll bump this up from page 5 with the request that those who cry foul and accuse others of starting drama get warned themselves for being the ones to start it by proxy.

 

Also, it'd be nice if the DC forums would be more accepting of different opinions and critique on sprites. It's better than it was, but still has room for improvement. This site has some infamy for being anti-criticism and overly sensitive about differing opinions. Sheltering and coddling that kind of attitude doesn't help anyone in the long run =p

[Rally Vincent]

Also, it'd be nice if the DC forums would be more accepting of different opinions and critique on sprites. It's better than it was, but still has room for improvement. This site has some infamy for being anti-criticism and overly sensitive about differing opinions. Sheltering and coddling that kind of attitude doesn't help anyone in the long run =p

I second this. Art will always provoke different opinions. There is no exception - there will be some who like that particular piece of art, and some just will not. Disliking the finished piece of art does not mean belittlng the effort that was put into it.

 

Anyone should have the right to say "do not like", just as any user has the right to say "do want". But the DC userbase has a tendency to silence users with peer pressure, and be it just to make them lose interest in posting in the long run.

[TJ09]

Indeed. People should be able to point out everyone's flaws without regard to feelings. After all, how can people improve if they don't know what's wrong? Who cares about things like "bullying?" Just keep piling it on; let no blemish go unmentioned. Right? ...Right?

 

Wrong.

[Nakase]

Previous Page Qoutes:

Indeed. People should be able to point out everyone's flaws without regard to feelings. After all, how can people improve if they don't know what's wrong? Who cares about things like "bullying?" Just keep piling it on; let no blemish go unmentioned. Right? ...Right?

 

Wrong.

I agree that anyone has the right to say they like or do not like an art piece. That's opinion, and everyone is entitled to have one.

 

However, don't get having opinions confused with constructive criticism. What has been happening in the news threads is way different than constructive criticism. True constructive criticism never tears down the artist, but encourages and builds up.

 

What has been posted in the news threads is thinly disguised opinions being called crit that essentially tears the artist apart. How can that be good? Even when good points are made the way they're being done is destructive. How many of you are wondering if Earthgirl has gone from total excitement over the Christmas release to sobbing in her room and wondering if it's worth it to keep trying to make sprites for DC?

 

I'll tell you right now I was close to that point after the Shadow Walkers were released. Total excitement to total depression. I nearly decided to forget spriting for DC. And yes, I cried. And guys. I never cry.

 

Yes, tell us you love them. Tell us that meh, kinda disappointed. Even tell us bleh, dun't liek it at all. Just don't pretend that is valid constructive criticism.

This happened with the Shadow Walkers, and you can go and look for yourself: I was open to constructive criticism. Fiona and I went to work and, Lo and Behold, the sprite was updated.

 

Constructive criticism is accepted by artists here. TRUE and REAL criticism looks to the Elements and Principles of Art, and ways to IMPROVE something;not just blurt out every microscopic problem. I don't see that happening.

 

I sure don't want you to toss my name in the "anti-criticism" basket, because it is not true.

 

=\ I don't find it very nice of you to make an all encompassing remark like you did there about us being coddled and not open to constructive criticism.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Nakase

[Banuk]

It's funny. Someone gives criticism to a spriter, they're allowed to get upset. Spriters give criticism to other players, and we're expected to suck it up and take it.

 

Not saying you guys don't have valid points, it's just really hard for me to sympathize with your indignation over people bashing your ideas when I've gone to bed crying over my opinions that spriters have bashed.

 

(Not just talking about art here, btw; I would never show a spriter on this forum anything I've drawn because of the exact thing being debated here.)

Edited December 30, 2011 by Derranged

[Nakase]

It's funny. Someone gives criticism to a spriter, they're allowed to get upset. Spriters give criticism to other players, and we're expected to suck it up and take it.

 

Not saying you guys don't have valid points, it's just really hard for me to empathize with your indignation over people bashing your ideas when I've gone to bed crying over my opinions that spriters have bashed.

 

(Not just talking about art here, btw; I would never show a spriter on this forum anything I've drawn because of the exact thing being debated here.)

That's not very fair =\

I'm first a player then a spriter. I've taken criticism before and it's fine. I've kept my cool around the forums, and haven't 'bashed' anyone.

 

Why is it that you say "you guys" and automatically decide we are all exactly the same with our responses, emotions, and experiences???

Edited December 30, 2011 by Nakase

[hazeh]

C-can't we all just be friends? ;~;

[Banuk]

Why is it that you say "you guys" and automatically decide we are all exactly the same with our responses, emotions, and experiences???

Because I've yet to meet a spriter whose response to any opinion I've voiced wasn't, "No, you're wrong and I'm right."

[Nine]

Indeed. People should be able to point out everyone's flaws without regard to feelings. After all, how can people improve if they don't know what's wrong? Who cares about things like "bullying?" Just keep piling it on; let no blemish go unmentioned. Right? ...Right?

 

Wrong.

Of course people should heed the feelings and emotions of others, that's a given regardless of the topic at hand. Interestingly, from what I've seen those who point out things that bother them, offer critiques, or post an opinion different than others are the ones who are 'bullied', often being told they are whiners, complainers, people looking to start drama, and generally insensitive people.

 

I'm not referring to people who post "this sucks", nor am I defending the people who do take the opportunity of a dragon release to attack an artist. I'm speaking for the people who voice their valid opinions and are shoved into the group of 'haters'.

[Daydreamer09]

It's funny. Someone gives criticism to a spriter, they're allowed to get upset. Spriters give criticism to other players, and we're expected to suck it up and take it.

 

Not saying you guys don't have valid points, it's just really hard for me to sympathize with your indignation over people bashing your ideas when I've gone to bed crying over my opinions that spriters have bashed.

 

(Not just talking about art here, btw; I would never show a spriter on this forum anything I've drawn because of the exact thing being debated here.)

You don't have to accept ANY criticism. If you don't agree with someone's opinion, you can always ignore it. However, doing so, you might be missing the opportunity to grow and fine tune your work.

 

People tend to think that the cave spriters have seniority and are always right. But they're just as human as everyone else.

 

Artist are a proud and quite affectionate to their hard work. I feel bad for the spriters who've had to put up with so much criticism. A little is fine, but no one likes to feel like they're being judged.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Daydreamer09

[Nine]

=\ I don't find it very nice  of you to make an all encompassing remark like you did there about us being coddled and not open to constructive criticism.

Hmm, are you referring to me? I wasn't saying anyone in particular was portraying such an attitude, and actually didn't mention artists at all in my post. I'm not speaking to anyone in specific here, I'm talking in a very open, generalized way.

 

I like that the Shadow walkers were updated and that crit was taken so well. It actually made me very happy and proud to see. I'm not saying all artists are anti-crit at all, or that even one is =p

 

Sometimes it feels like people misread my posts due to high emotions or personal reasons. I urge everyone to go back and reread things before posting, to make sure misunderstandings do not happen =)

 

Edited to get rid of that 'lol'. This is not a lawl-worthy topic, Nine.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Nine

[Nakase]

lol are you referring to me? I wasn't saying anyone in particular was portraying such an attitude, and actually didn't mention artists at all in my post. I'm not speaking to anyone in specific here, I'm talking in a very open, generalized way.

 

I like that the Shadow walkers were updated and that crit was taken so well. It actually made me very happy and proud to see. I'm not saying all artists are anti-crit at all, or even one =p

 

Sometimes it feels like people misread my posts due to high emotions or personal reasons. I urge everyone to go back and reread things before posting, to make sure misunderstandings do not happen =)

I actually was responding to you and Rally. I think that is where the artist part came into my response.

 

I just wish some people would realize how to give proper criticism to the artists here. If done -RIGHT- then more events like the Shadow Walkers -might- happen <3

[Nine]

I just wish some people would realize how to give proper criticism to the artists here. If done -RIGHT- then more events like the Shadow Walkers -might- happen <3

It's weird, I swear I posted somewhere recently about this but I can't find my post anywhere... uh, anyways.

 

I think a large part of that is simply because few people know how to give thorough, expert critique. Places like DeviantArt, highschool classes and such don't really offer insight into identifying specific issues and how to communicate them to others. So people just speak what they feel since that's all they are able to do. The internet provides a very impersonal way of conversation as well-- no facial expressions or tones of voice to help the artist understand that offense is not meant.

 

I actually find it incredibly frustrating to not be able to clearly talk about an issue I see. I imagine it's the same way for many of DC's users. I'm certainly not a expert at giving critique, though I do try my best to give examples or suggestions. I think that's what most people giving crit are attempting to do, and when other users come out and accuse them of being constant whiners or drama-starters, that's when foul feelings start to arise.

 

Just as artists need time and practice to get better at art, critique takes some time to get better at as well =o This is the main reason I'd like to see less people accusing others of being complainers and rude, so they can learn to get better at critiquing and pointing out things that may have gone unnoticed.

[skauble]

I'll bump this up from page 5 with the request that those who cry foul and accuse others of starting drama get warned themselves for being the ones to start it by proxy.

 

Also, it'd be nice if the DC forums would be more accepting of different opinions and critique on sprites. It's better than it was, but still has room for improvement. This site has some infamy for being anti-criticism and overly sensitive about differing opinions. Sheltering and coddling that kind of attitude doesn't help anyone in the long run =p

I don't necessarily disagree with you about people being accepting of opinions - although I do agree with Fiona that opinion often gets confused with concrit and, sometimes, people seem to confuse their opinions with fact (not just with art; I think that's happened in lots of the lively debates here).

 

However, I'm going to suggest that some of this anti-criticism attitude right now might have to do with timing and location. I think that, when we're talking about something like the holidays, some of what happens isn't that people are against others having differing opinions, but that when people are getting together and celebrating something and there's this background stream of "this is wrong", "this is wrong", "this is wrong", "this is wrong", it tends to get on people's nerves. Maybe it's just me, but it's kind of grinding when the whole thing starts about "this should be fixed" or "that should be changed" or "____ is substandard compared to ____", and it starts becoming a focus of the festive threads.

 

Which isn't to say that I think people should be made to feel bad about not liking something, but before we lump the holiday craziness in with our more general craziness, I think it might be worth bearing in mind that people who are trying to enjoy their holiday mellow probably aren't going to be overly receptive to things that encourage us to focus on the negative side of things.

[skinst]

Because I've yet to meet a spriter whose response to any opinion I've voiced wasn't, "No, you're wrong and I'm right."

While I imagine your bias is not without reason, but I think you're being a bit unfair to say as much when there has been substantial proof in the past that spriters WILL edit sprites if people word their crit in a manner that doesn't come off as being, well, jerks about it.

 

Does no one remember La Femme?

 

Maybe I'm a rarity, but I accept all constrictive crit passed my way. However I think the thing that confuses people most is just because someone gives an artist crit, doesn't mean they must then edit their work accordingly.

 

Want to know why?

 

Firstly, whose to say you're (collective) right and the artist (collective) is wrong?

 

Secondly, we may see our art differently to you (not specifically you, btw).

 

Thirdly, and I cannot stress this enough; We. Don't. Have. To.

 

Just as you are perfectly entitled to your opinions, critique and whatnot, we are perfectly entitled to tell you that no, we do not have to follow your crit.

 

Does that mean you have to shut up and deal with it? No, you don't have to do that. You can have a carry on about this and that and whatever you like, as much as you like.

 

But remember the three points above.

[thiefofhearts]

It's weird, I swear I posted somewhere recently about this but I can't find my post anywhere... uh, anyways.

 

I think a large part of that is simply because few people know how to give thorough, expert critique. Places like DeviantArt, highschool classes and such don't really offer insight into identifying specific issues and how to communicate them to others. So people just speak what they feel since that's all they are able to do. The internet provides a very impersonal way of conversation as well-- no facial expressions or tones of voice to help the artist understand that offense is not meant.

 

I actually find it incredibly frustrating to not be able to clearly talk about an issue I see. I imagine it's the same way for many of DC's users. I'm certainly not a expert at giving critique, though I do try my best to give examples or suggestions. I think that's what most people giving crit are attempting to do, and when other users come out and accuse them of being constant whiners or drama-starters, that's when foul feelings start to arise.

 

Just as artists need time and practice to get better at art, critique takes some time to get better at as well =o This is the main reason I'd like to see less people accusing others of being complainers and rude, so they can learn to get better at critiquing and pointing out things that may have gone unnoticed.

THIS. So. Much.

 

I do some 3d art on the side - completely different from pixels i know, but as a different type of artist who also receives "critiques" I don't see anything wrong with what anyone said - unless I missed something really nasty.

 

I think the censorship is getting a little too heavy if someone can't say "I'm not a fan of xxx" or "It's not my favorite xxx" plainly without being lambasted and called rabble rousers/drama starters/whiners/complainers/etc (which i think is just as bad tbh). No harm is ment, and nobody is saying the art is bad or terrible or they don't appreciate the effort people went through to provide it, but it's not their slice of cake.

 

Some like chocolate, and some like carrot. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

For what it's worth some people did try to post constructive criticism - maybe it wasn't taken as such but the effort was there and they just didn't know how to express themselves properly. Not everyone is an art student and not everyone is going to know about color theory, anatomy or proportions. Also keep in mind that a lot of the user base is made up of children, and they may not know better. Not an excuse but an explanation - it's sad to always think that just because someone says something you may not like or agree with they must always have the worse intentions possible. It could easily be a misunderstanding; if everyone had a little patience in trying to understand where the other was coming from though maybe all this could resolve itself.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think anyway was trying to do a wink. wink. nudge. nudge. plz change the sprite. wink. nudge. type of situation; i just think in the spirit of the thread, people talked about all the christmas sprites, and the subject of which was their favorite came up and they started to compare them together. understandably so. my favorite is still the ribbon dancers but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate the work that went into this year's christmas dragon either. (for what it's worth, earthgirl also made one of my favorite commons - electrics. i'll eventually have an army of those) Believe me, I do appreciate the work, but if someone says "Wow I really love xxx dragon, it's so much better than yyy dragon!" shouldn't someone else be able to say "Well, I disagree, I really like yyy dragon better, it feels more [insert adjective here] than xxx dragon,"? That example actually did happen in the Holiday thread and it was called out for being inappropriate. Maybe I'm missing something here, because I don't see "negativity" from either side, but why is person 1's opinion more valid or acceptable than person 2?

 

it's just kind of tiring that people can't have a discussion and disagree about something without it devolving into someone being accused of, as TJ put it, being a bully. It's almost suffocating, and the attitude of "well if you don't like it, get out/leave/drop your eggs/etc." doesn't really help the situation. I also agree with Nine that when someone tries to just openly talk about an "issue" it almost always gets taken the wrong way.

 

I get that as much as possible the community wants everyone to play nice (I do too), but playing nice doesn't always mean agreeing 100% of the time. It's so refreshing when I can chat with someone, both of us stand our grounds and disagree but still walk out of the conversation without having called foul on the other. I don't know about other people but I don't care for people who are "Yes" men - I respect someone with a little more backbone and it's a shame these types of people are the ones that are almost always silenced. If only one side of the coin is every heard it will be difficult for the site to improve and grow for everyone.

 

tl;dr - i agree with Nine. Expanded. sorry for wall of text.

[Rally Vincent]

I actually was responding to you and Rally. I think that is where the artist part came into my response.

 

I just wish some people would realize how to give proper criticism to the artists here. If done -RIGHT- then more events like the Shadow Walkers -might- happen <3

I believe you might have misunderstood me. I am not talking about spriters not being open to criticism. It is about the DC userbase not wanting to allow opinions that are not supporting.

 

My concern is and was only that everyone has the right to tell what they think about sprites, even if a spriter or especially any other user thinks the critique was unnecessary, unproper, or waste of time.

 

Users post something along the lines "Uh, I love it". That isn't (positive) criticism, just a statement of opinion. Nobody goes around telling those users: If you don't have any concrete praise of a specific well executed spriting issue, then stop posting. What does your post accomplish? So, why should users have the right to say "yay", but others not be allowed to say "nay"?

 

Of course I understand that a spriter or any other artist isn't happy if their work is criticised. It's not just with sprites, btw: Once in a while, I write descriptions. Now, whether this would be "art" or not aside, there is feedback which I don't like. I ignore it if I think it is unjustified. But this is not what I think is a problem in this forum, so let me come to the the point. I'll best give an example.

 

You go into the Louvre and look at the Mona Lisa. Cool, right? So many people drool and think it's the "best painting ever". You are more like "Meh... too dark and all. I just don't like it". Now, what happens in DC?

 

1. Leonardo (=the artist) comes along and tells you that this is no proper criticism. That is correct. It probably wasn't even supposed to be criticism in that meaning, but merely to state one's opinion. I don't know why it is so hard to simply ignore that and shrug it off. We all know that someone is not going to like what we do - not just in arts, but in any field of our daily lives.

 

2. The second thing that would happen is fifty Frenchman storming into the Louvre and yelling something like this:

- You should be grateful that Leonardo took so much time to paint the Mona Lisa.

- If you don't like it, don't visit the Louvre.

- Oh, you are just making drama. Stop whining.

 

And so on.

 

So, here is why I think you misunderstood me. Most of the answers are about that "do not like" is not proper criticism. I don't deny this. My pet peeve is that many users seem to think that opinions that are not concrete criticism should not be allowed to be posted. Why that should be; I haven't heard a valid reason for this yet.

 

Especially I don't know why users should have the right to tell other users to shut up if they don't have concrete criticism. Is that a forum rule? Not being allowed to simply say "do not like", but to have concrete criticism? That is mob rule; silencing those who dare to fall out of line. This is what is bullying, not the other way around. Bully those who don't like a sprite until they shut up, and we all live in rainbowland.

 

Does that mean you have to shut up and deal with it? No, you don't have to do that. You can have a carry on about this and that and whatever you like, as much as you like.

That is exactly the point. Many users do tell others to shut up, and that is what we are arguing about. It's not about spriters wanting concrit, but regular users shushing others.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Rally Vincent

[Tiffashy]

Hmm, we should have like a spell cheak thing so it would be so much easier to spell things. They got one in Arokai so not many people will spell incorrectly.

[stardust13]

Looks like this forum suggestion might already be under discussion:

 

I have a rule change I'd like to request for News posts that announce new dragons.

 

Could the mods decide that "critique" not be allowed on news posts where TJ debuts a dragon? I've long thought that "critiques" (sometimes disguised as negative comments) should be held somewhere other than the place where a dragon is debuted to the forum. Maybe Site Discussion could allow for critique posts while the News announcements be reserved for "Thank-you"s.

 

TJ makes a post giving us dragons and it eventually devolves into something a little unhappy and snarky, even with mods stepping in. I think that more people look at the news announcement posts and want to celebrate in the News post our good fortune and happiness. Not read a bunch of "not the way I would have done it" (and worse) posts. It makes the release of a new dragon unfun for many readers.

 

I'm not asking for a forum-wide rule change, just a change on News Announcement posts. Someone can always start a critique thread elsewhere and people interested in commenting, happy and sad, could be pointed there. Spriters would then have the choice to read critiques, rather than be smacked in the face with them on the announcement post.

 

Thanks for considering it, if you do.

Edited December 30, 2011 by stardust13

[earthgirl]

I'm going to finally say something as I decided to stop standing aside and watch. I see people mentioning the fact that us, spriters, don't take critique openly and this is NOT true.

 

In fact, I wasn't bothered by people who commented on my sprite. Some points were valid and some weren't... They were personal opinions and everyone has the right to have one, right? Right? It's up to me if I want to consider those or not. It's my sprite after all. Not everyone will like it and that is the reality with every single piece of art. Someone's least favorite can be someone favorite and viceversa.

 

What really bugged me was something that happened outside the forums and the site in general. It's pretty much some fellow spriters's demeanor and attitude and view on Holiday releases in general. Which in my opinion, is wrong. Holiday events aren't supposed to be dealt with drama and sprite bashing.

 

For one, I'm not a tyrant, but I believe many of you could figure that out. My comment in there was the final blow in order to get the whole drama to stop. I said to myself to not interfere much with it, but I felt I had to at that one point, because it was starting to become unbearable. I believe it would've kept going on and on if I hadn't. v.v

 

I hope I half-clarified things out. I am NOT upset at the userbase.

 

Have a Happy New Year's all.

Edited December 30, 2011 by earthgirl