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[annageckos]

this is a kids site

I have seen you write this many times, and I have to disagree with you to a point. I don't think Dragcave is a 'kid's site'. I think it a site for all ages, not just targeted to children. I think anyone, young or old, or in between can enjoy this site. That said, I see no problem with an 'adult', 'mature' 'serious' or what ever you want to call it section. It seems some here think 'adult' = p0rn. I think it means, like others have stated already, more serious topics. Like religion, abortion and other topics that not everyone is going to agree on. I see no problem in separating them from the more light hearted topics. That way anyone who wanted to avoid those topics can. They don't have to see them at all. I have seen other forums with an 'adult' section, and it works out well. And those forums have both younger and older members. There is a warning to all that the topics may be controversial and get heated. If you (general) can't handle it then do not go in. This warning is for both adults and younger members.

[Fuzzbucket]

As a 66 year old, I have to agree that it isn't a kids' site Even so, Keriel has a point. There are a LOT of kids here. More than on most sites, because of the appeal of the dragons.

 

And once they are here, they see the chance to get into discussions - and some of those discussions are about tough things. And a lot of kids really NEED that and can get listened to here in a way that they cannot in many homes, sad to say - where their views are dismissed on grounds of lesser age (hell, my 92 y/o MOTHER still does that to ME )

 

So let's make sure that our suggestions here don't mean they have all that taken away, or that they end up feeling unwelcome here. Our kids are our future. And we don't need the truly risque, do we ?

Edited October 18, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[~!~]

I think actual kids would be extremely bored with Dragon Cave, and not keep playing for very long.

[dragon_mando]

As a 66 year old, I have to agree that it isn't a kids' site Even So let's make sure that our suggestions here don't mean they have all that taken away, or that they end up feeling unwelcome here. Our kids are our future. And we don't need the truly risque, do we ?

Risque is still donotwant, and I always understood "mature section" to mean a place for srs bzns so it would be out of the way of the lighthearted GD stuff--so that people who don't want to get into it don't feel they have to and so that people who avoid GD because those topics are just there can feel safe there. A subforum for serious stuff would achieve both while allowing the discussions to still take place.

 

And again, because I can't stop thinking about it now that I've thought of it, how hilarious a topic on the origins of some less-than-PG words might be. Even though that's not as serious a topic, it's not something that I'd want to have in the main section of GD, so some more lighthearted topics might get mixed in with the serious ones as well--even if it was only the less-crude slang terms.

[Princess Artemis]

And again, because I can't stop thinking about it now that I've thought of it, how hilarious a topic on the origins of some less-than-PG words might be. Even though that's not as serious a topic, it's not something that I'd want to have in the main section of GD, so some more lighthearted topics might get mixed in with the serious ones as well--even if it was only the less-crude slang terms.

As fun as a topic like that might be, I can see it going poorly. I know I am unlikely to forget anytime soon how badly the mini-discussion on some abelist terms that many find incredibly offensive went, and I can see something similar, though to a lesser degree, happening with a discussion of words that most people accept as being offensive.

 

A discussion like that certainly has a place though, I'm sure there is somewhere to discuss it with humor and fun where the atmosphere is better established to handle it.

[TJ09]

I feel like I should do a site poll on demographics to find out age ranges and such. Except, you know, I got rid of that feature because I never used it.

[Fuzzbucket]

There's always polldaddy... Ugh.

[~!~]

I feel like I should do a site poll on demographics to find out age ranges and such. Except, you know, I got rid of that feature because I never used it.

Well, since this is a forum issue, a poll in the News forum should do the trick.

[Fuzzbucket]

If people see it....

[~!~]

Hey, we see new dragon threads. *shrug*

[Fuzzbucket]

Many do, many don't, it seems (see under "OMG I had no idea did I MISS it" threads .) No idea of proportions !

 

Shrugs in sympathy !

[pinkgothic]

Can I suggest that if an active thread is removed without that the author is warned (as in, given a formal warning / infraction / whatever you'd like to call it), and the author is active, that a PM is sent to them with a brief info about (1) that the thread was removed, (2) why it was removed, (3) with the original first post enclosed (obviously wih the note please not to post it again)?

 

I seem to be unlucky and this keeps happening to me. Then I keep bothering the mods to find out why it happened. I do get an answer, and often the post, but they don't always know about the thread's history like the person who probably deleted it, and I obviously don't know who deleted it, so I can't go directly to them.

 

I tend to have a knack (with my lurking and only occasional posting) of managing to put a lot of work into a first post and then finding a few hours later the thread is gone entirely; I have no idea how common this is, I suspect I'm just unlucky that way, really (i.e. I have a talent for picking the wrong subjects!).

 

Thoughts?

Edited October 31, 2011 by pinkgothic

[HeatherMarie]

pinkgothic, I'm not clear on what you mean there.

 

If an active thread is removed by *mods*, or by the user themself? Why would a thread being removed warrant a warning? Threads are removed all the time for inactivity, or they go to that secret artist's place, etc etc.... It seems like that would have to be a case-by-case basis, because surly not every single thread-removal is grounds for a warn!

[Nine]

I think I know what pinkgothic is trying to say, and I am inclined to agree that it can be confusing at first. It's rather sad to come back and see the entire discussion you were partaking in was deleted or moved and the reason isn't entirely clear. It almost creates a feeling of fear, that an unspoken taboo was broken and we must never speak of it again lest we too suffer the same fate.

 

Yes, I may be exaggerating a bit on that last part. =p I think a message to the OP with a reason would be nice thing to do, though!

 

Oh, well I guess if the reason can't be shared then there's nothing anyone can do. That clears some of the questions I had, unintentionally...

Edited November 1, 2011 by Nine

[Nectaris]

pinkgothic, I'm not clear on what you mean there.

 

If an active thread is removed by *mods*, or by the user themself? Why would a thread being removed warrant a warning? Threads are removed all the time for inactivity, or they go to that secret artist's place, etc etc.... It seems like that would have to be a case-by-case basis, because surly not every single thread-removal is grounds for a warn!

I think they were referring to a thread being removed without it breaking rules, like the time a thread on a glitch was deleted and many didn't know what happened. The glitch was solved, and that was why it was deleted, but the instant deletion of the thread confused and worried many people, probably first and foremost whoever the OP was.

[Obscure_Trash]

Sometimes there are threads in which the reason they were deleted can't be shared for one reason or another.

 

In certain cases, the OP /is/ PM'd, but we can't go through and PM every single person who commented in the thread and for whatever reason, we need the thread deleted.

 

Sometimes threads are deleted because they were duplicates or common sense things but have already been 'taken care of' before a mod could come and close it, so they get deleted.

 

:3

[pinkgothic]

pinkgothic, I'm not clear on what you mean there.

 

If an active thread is removed by *mods*, or by the user themself? Why would a thread being removed warrant a warning? Threads are removed all the time for inactivity, or they go to that secret artist's place, etc etc.... It seems like that would have to be a case-by-case basis, because surly not every single thread-removal is grounds for a warn!

 

Nectaris pretty much hit the nail on the head, but just to confirm: I mean that sometimes active threads are removed that the OP is still maintaining (e.g. continually updating the first post) without that any forum rule is expressly broken by the thread that would make the removal obvious to the outside observer.

 

This has happened to me a few times, and each time I've PM the mods to ask (and they're very cordial and helpful about their responses) while being all fidgety and nervous that I did something wrong, since I got no notification about why it was removed. (Also lost a boatload of work. 8D But that happens, it's okay.)

 

In certain cases, the OP /is/ PM'd

 

Aah. I see! That's enough for me, then. I must have bad luck.

 

Yeah, the reason the thread I was missing earlier was deleted couldn't be shared (well, fully; I did get a rough outline when I asked <3).

 

The other time that immediately comes to mind (back when dimorphism came out and the 'talking about dragon spoilers is okay' was fresh in effect on the forum, but a whole thread detailing the dimorphism was outside the 'within reason' that went unstated at the time) I imagine it was simply forgotten, which is totally okay, too, even if it freaked me out horribly at the time.

Edited November 1, 2011 by pinkgothic

[skinst]

In light of the recent sticky in GD, I would like to emphasize my desire to see a proper debating/mature section on the forum.

[Fuzzbucket]

In light of the recent sticky in GD, I would like to emphasize my desire to see a proper debating/mature section on the forum.

In which case I would like to jump on the other side and congratulate the mods on a rather fine set of guidelines. There ARE other forums for the topics they have ruled out. And there are a lot of young people here whose parents might try and get this place shut down if the kind of topics that have been ruled out are allowed - as there is - I remind you - no way to be sure who is looking.

 

It would be nice for parents who are concerned about what their child reads on line to be sure they could safely allow their 10 y/o to come here to talk about lineages. Pretty much any SERIOUS discussion is still up there. What EXACTLY would you want to discuss that isn't permitted ?

 

Edit for typefails

Edited November 10, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[skinst]

It's not that I want to get around the rules. It's that I want to be able to discuss topics which are already allowed (as in, current AND after the recent set of rules are impacted)

 

Its that I want to discuss such things as abortion and whatnot with the freedom that we currently have, and more so.

 

Debates will get agressive. That is the nature of controversial topics. As it is now however? If some moron comes in and goes "lol if you get raped its your own fault haha" and people get offended? Under the new rules, we'll all get warned and the thread will be gone.

 

And the parent arguement just makes me roll my eyes every single time I see it. GPX+ is a kid friendly site, yet they have a debating section souly for debating. Things get heated in there and I haven't seen any mod shutting the whole section down because a mother got their knickers in a wad over what their kids read online.

 

Seriously. Every single time someone comes into this thread and voices their concern over the need for a mature section, EVERYONE jumps on the mummy bandwagon or the 'lolz you just want to discuss porn and sex.'

 

How many times does it need to be said that that isn't what we (general) want before you (general) listen? :/

 

We just want a section to discuss topics befitting our age without having mods playing Supernanny. It is not their job, nor TJ's job, to do children's parent's jobs. If they don't want their kid to see something they shouldn't? They are the ones responsible for making sure they don't. And there are plenty of ways they can do that even while not in the room.

 

So why should every single member have to put up with that kind of supernanny crap because of parents negligence?

 

(Gods, I feel like I'm debating against the Australian Government in regards to R rated games. ; )

Edited November 10, 2011 by skinst

[Keriel]

why can't you go to sites dedicated to debating??

 

thats what i generally do. i join in here a fair amount but my real debating is done elsewhere on a forum made specifically for debating. i don't think it's killed me

[skinst]

I do go to other sites for debating, but you're evading my point, really. Why can't DC have a section for debating/more mature topics?

 

You really don't think that people just come here to talk about DC do you? Even in the IRC the topics are as varied as the people in the world. Conversations evolve. Discussions evolve. That is the nature of communication.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm not Australian.

 

But those guidelines allow everything you have mentioned. So what is the issue here ? I'm 67 years old, and swear like a trooper - no worse than a trooper; I learned the words from my vicar father... - and I am totally unshockable, trust me. (TRY me !! - not here, by PM, please... )

 

    * No sex topics/posts/talks (this includes humans and other animals).

    * No fetish topics/posts/talks.

    * No pornographic topics/posts/talks - discussing it or its effects on other things or showing it or otherwise.

    * No "sex ed" topics/posts/talks, including pictures or logistics discussions.

    * No drug-related topics/posts/talks.

    * No alcohol-related topics/posts/talks.

 

Drug use is illegal. No-one should be promoting the illegal in ANY way - a site can be shut down for that alone - parental issues notwithstanding.

Alcohol - well, I SUPPOSE maybe possibly - but what's to say about it ? I imagine being addicted to it would be legit, if asking for support.

 

And the rest are sex-related - and sex-ed as a topic IS an issue, and unless you are a qualified teacher or doctor, on the dodgy side - are you 100% sure you are right with your facts ? I can remember being told things as fact which turned out to be a load of nonsense... Abortion is listed as possibly being restarted - so not sure what your issue is with that one in particular.

 

And it IS important to remember that tone doesn't come across on a forum where language skills vary and there are so many people whose first language is not English. I have just got myself into trouble elsewhere for a passing - non-confrontational remark which most people thought was funny, as I intended, but which reduced a very nice Dutch person to tears... That isn't at all the same as things getting heated Aggression has no place in a genuine debate, mind you. It lowers the level of debate and reduces the power of your argument.

 

If some moron comes in and goes "lol if you get raped its your own fault haha" and people get offended? Under the new rules, we'll all get warned and the thread will be gone.

 

I would imagine in a case like that the POST (and if it happened more than once, the member ) would go and the thread would stay - but only time will tell.

[Keriel]

why does it need it when it already has a GD?

 

as much as you hate it, the fact is the parental argument is valid. if every site took this attitude your showing kids would never be allowed online because every site would be full of adult classed discussion.

 

kids need a place to come and talk and be safe. what is so bad that dc is one of those places??

 

edit because my keys keep failing

Edited November 10, 2011 by Keriel

[skinst]

But those guidelines allow everything you have mentioned. So what is the issue here ? I'm 67 years old, and swear like a trooper - no worse than a trooper; I learned the words from my vicar father... - and I am totally unshockable, trust me. (TRY me !! - not here, by PM, please... )

 

I already told you what the issue is. Go back up and read my post again. I hate repeating myself.

 

(Lets just say the government think the state of victoria is full of children and not adults who need protection from the evil that is games where blood appears. We're delightfully nicknamed the 'Nanny State' in Australia.)

 

Drug use is illegal. No-one should be promoting the illegal in ANY way - a site can be shut down for that alone - parental issues notwithstanding.

And the rest are sex-related - and sex-ed as a topic IS an issue, and unless you are a qualified teacher or doctor, on the dodgy side - are you 100% sure you are right with your facts ? I can remember being told things as fact which turned out to be a load of nonsense... Abortion is listed as possibly being restarted - so not sure what your issue is with that one in particular.

 

Interesting, considering I never mentioned in my post in wanting it re-instated.

 

Alcohol - well, I SUPPOSE maybe possibly - but what's to say about it ? I imagine being addicted to it would be legit, if asking for support.

 

Alcohol is a drug, just a legal one. If you allow it then discussing illegal drugs is going to come up even in passing.

 

And it IS important to remember that tone doesn't come across on a forum where language skills vary and there are so many people whose first language is not English. I have just got myself into trouble elsewhere for a passing - non-confrontational remark which most people thought was funny, as I intended, but which reduced a very nice Dutch person to tears... That isn't at all the same as things getting heated Aggression has no place in a genuine debate, mind you. It lowers the level of debate and reduces the power of your argument.

 

Exactly, to some I come across as delightfully polite. Others? Intimidating as all hell. And with the new rules, as I said, members won't be able to really defend themselves if something like I mentioned (and it has, mind you) happens.

 

I would imagine in a case like that the POST (and if it happened more than once, the member smile.gif) would go and the thread would stay - but only time will tell.

 

It has happened before. The post was removed, but not before a lot of people saw it, and a lot of people were angry and hurt by it, myself included.

 

why does it need it when it already has a GD?

 

Read my post again.

 

as much as you hate it, the fact is the parental argument is valid. if every site took this attitude your showing kids would never be allowed online because every site would be full of adult classed discussion.

 

*thumps head on table repeatedly*

 

I. Am. Not. Advocating. For. Adult. Content. There is a difference between 'adult content' and MATURE content.

 

kids need a place to come and talk and be safe. what is so bad that dc is one of those places??

 

*snort* All a kid would need to do is goggle abortion and they'd be scarred for life. Same for murder, rape, war, ect ect. This forum is rated PG-13, not G.

 

If parents want kids to be safe? Don't let them on the internet. Plain and freaking simple.