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[Fuzzbucket]

But how can anyone TELL ?

 

ETA actually it DOESN'T say you can't sign up under 13s, just that there are rules for them/

Edited October 16, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[Dr. Paine]

But how can anyone TELL ?

 

ETA actually it DOESN'T say you can't sign up under 13s, just that there are rules for them/

-shrug- Like I said, I haven't totally looked into it. Quite honestly, I have no idea how you can tell or anything like that But every forum I've gone to either has enormous restrictions for under thirteens, or outright forbids signing up before that age.

[dragon_mando]

I run a forum where certain boards are only accessible by certain people. It's really not that hard to set up so a member has to be given special permissions from a mod. If it's so scary to have a kid able to access a topic on say, the origin of cuss words, I think there's better things to be worried about. As long as unnecessary swearing and dirty pictures are still banned I don't see a problem with it and see no issue with kids seeing it. At least it's more educational than the pointless versions in their movies and games.

[Princess Artemis]

Yes. There are younger players here. But they shouldn't be on the forums to begin with. If they've lied about their age or a parent's lied for them, well, it's the parent's fault if the kid is exposed to anything.

Quick point: No, they didn't have to lie. There is nothing in the registration process here that says, "I certify I am [X] age or older." Saying younger kids shouldn't be here to begin with on a forum that disallows no one and is connected to a general-audience pixel collecting game is simply not true.

 

The fact that parents are responsible for the supervision of their children does not absolve everyone else from acting responsibly and appropriately in a venue that allows them to come hang out and is, if not geared for them, at least somewhat in the vicinity. In addition, the fact that the real World Wild Web exists doesn't mean everywhere must be as wild and woolly. "But they could find it with Google!" is a terrible excuse to make everywhere the same. Honestly, that argument reminds me of, "But my friend's mom lets her, c'mon!" (Not saying you, specifically, made that argument Dr. Paine, just that I've seen it raised as support for the idea.)

 

We're in what the Internet might consider a park, with an area that the teens and older crowd hang out, a playground for the younger children, and some benches with shade for the parents. There are some nice trees and a garden, though it has a reputation for being a bit unfriendly. Is it so surprising that some people don't think such a place is the right venue to add anything where the kids would be prohibited from going? Some places just aren't the right places for everything, even if those things are perfectly good and fine things, even necessary things.

 

All of Real Life with its wonders and rough edges doesn't need to be here. That doesn't mean it needs to be banned from the Internet forever and for always, just that there are proper places for it. Suggesting nuance isn't jumping off the Slippery Slope (I do realize that the Slippery Slope is one of the favorite attractions at the DC forums, but really, it's not that great of a ride ; )

[~!~]

I think the only reason there's that "you must be 13 or older to be on the internet" law is so that when 8-year-olds' parents let them go on the internet and they get trolled/flamed/cursed out/whatever, they can't sue the website.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think the only reason there's that "you must be 13 or older to be on the internet" law is so that when 8-year-olds' parents let them go on the internet and they get trolled/flamed/cursed out/whatever, they can't sue the website.

I think it is more about Bad People who groom young people..... (if that is a term not known in your country, googling will do it, I think.)

 

Governments all over the world really seem to believe that making laws about age can stop that kind of thing happening. But it can't. The only thing that can stop it is catching the groomers.

 

That is NOT the issue here. But - this IS the only forum where youngsters as young as you like can ask questions about breeding, trade eggs, hear about upcoming holiday events etc. Anything that would mean their parents felt they had to block the place would be horribly unfair to them, I think. We oldsters can go all over the place. They can't.

[TJ09]

It's actually not about the content whatsoever. COPPA is about "collecting information" from minors (such as when you sign up for a site that requires you to give name or even address).

[RainDear]

I have mentored 6 and 8 year old members. At one time we had a mentor that was 10.

 

I am 61, and if all content considered unsuitable to the 13-15 year old crowd was denied, it wouldn't bother me at all. I only hang out in the DC and sometimes games portions of the forums anyway.

 

I can understand how some who are comfortable with members they feel they know might want to discuss some things with them that are not suitable for all audiences, and not go elsewhere for that, but agree this forum might not be the most proper place for that.

 

I don't know what the "right" thing to do about this disparity of desires would be.

[Fuzzbucket]

It's actually not about the content whatsoever. COPPA is about "collecting information" from minors (such as when you sign up for a site that requires you to give name or even address).

And that isn't about denying access to under 13s, as I understand it, just about what you can retain in the way of data, yes ?

 

So - as I think I said- it has NOTHING to do with whether or not 6 year olds should be allowed on here. If they are up to running a scroll and can read the posts - they should be allowed, IMHO. So that they can trade, and so that they can ask how to set up a lineage or whatever. That is the PRIMARY purpose if this forum, I think ? whatever else we members may want to use it for on the side.

[CatCreature]

Quite honestly, that's about all I know I haven't looked into it completely, but I believe it is to comply with COPPA... I know the Chicken Smoothie foums have blocks on COPPA users, like they can't send (and maybe can't receive) trade messages, and they may be blocked from certain parts of the forum.

I'm guessing that Chickensmoothie's COPPA users can't access the Adult Chat 18+ part of the forum.

 

And even if CS has a part for more serious discussions members still have to keep it child-friendly.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm guessing that Chickensmoothie's COPPA users can't access the Adult Chat 18+ part of the forum.

 

And even if CS has a part for more serious discussions members still have to keep it child-friendly.

I'm guessing there is actually no way to stop them unless their parents use nannying software to block the whole site ?

[Fuzzbucket]

The point is any kid can come here, and that is how it should be, - no ? so if we ARE going to allow ****ing and ****ing, where do we put it, for those as wants it ?

 

And should we, anyway ?

[CatCreature]

I'm guessing there is actually no way to stop them unless their parents use nannying software to block the whole site ?

I guess not. I think the headline is more of a warning that they do discuss things like religion, abortion and gay rights among others. They even have a sticky for younger visitors with a few guidelines.

 

(Note: I hardly visit CS's forum. The members are using every colour and every font and every size available and it makes my head hurt. It might be different in the Adult section though.)

[Dr. Paine]

I guess not. I think the headline is more of a warning that they do discuss things like religion, abortion and gay rights among others. They even have a sticky for younger visitors with a few guidelines.

 

(Note: I hardly visit CS's forum. The members are using every colour and every font and every size available and it makes my head hurt. It might be different in the Adult section though.)

From what I've seen... it's almost exactly like our General Discussion forum Except with a more prominent sticky, but that's just how the site's laid out. And sorry about the COPPA thing, I really didn't know much about it, I just thought that it had something to do with whole 'thirteen+' thing I've seen.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Dr. Paine

[Obscure_Trash]

I'd say a random google search is more likely to "scar" a kid than this forum.

Probably. However, we are not talking about making the whole internet more kid friendly; we're talking about making DC more kid friendly. :3

[Fuzzbucket]

Which seems to mean - it's OK now, but we don't need to move towards more - er - ADULT content ?

[NixAyum]

Which seems to mean - it's OK now, but we don't need to move towards more - er - ADULT content ?

The thing is, people are entirely getting this wrong.

 

It's NOT going to be a "ololol no rules, porn everywhere, cursing!"

 

It's going to be a debate section, basically. Not a lot of new stuff, just a place for the threads like religion to be separate from things like "favorite color".

[CatCreature]

From what I've seen... it's almost exactly like our General Discussion forum Except with a more prominent sticky, but that's just how the site's laid out.

Exactly. So why are people against it?

[Dr. Paine]

The thing is, people are entirely getting this wrong.

 

It's NOT going to be a "ololol no rules, porn everywhere, cursing!"

 

It's going to be a debate section, basically. Not a lot of new stuff, just a place for the threads like religion to be separate from things like "favorite color".

Thank you, Nix.

 

@Cat: That's what I'm wondering

[Princess Artemis]

Thank you, Nix.

 

@Cat: That's what I'm wondering

Perhaps because it was being suggested as an R-rated/mature section with greater allowance for subject matter? If it was just a "hey, lets stick the more serious GD stuff in one place in GD and the other stuff in GD in another section of GD", that's not really an issue and doesn't even require discussion since nothing would change but the sorting.

 

Though IMHO, GD really does toe the line; I've seen a few young people express their discomfort with the subject matter there and been told to get lost, in not so many words, so I cannot imagine how it makes the silent lurkers feel. Still, it's there already, and as long as it doesn't get worse, sorting it into another subfolder is hardly going to make a difference.

[Dr. Paine]

If this is about the Mature/Debate section, then a lot of people seem to be missing the point.

 

It's not to have a free zone where rules don't apply, or for spam and everything is R-rated. That stuff would still basically be unacceptable. The section was intended to be a discussion section for subjects that get more controversial. To separate stuff like (glancing at what's in GD atm) "are you ticklish?" from stuff like "religion/abortion".

It's not being suggested as a free for all, as Nix stated a couple pages back.

 

People just kept/keep missing that little detail.

[Fuzzbucket]

Perhaps because it was being suggested as an R-rated/mature section with greater allowance for subject matter?  If it was just a "hey, lets stick the more serious GD stuff in one place in GD and the other stuff in GD in another section of GD", that's not really an issue and doesn't even require discussion since nothing would change but the sorting.

 

Though IMHO, GD really does toe the line; I've seen a few young people express their discomfort with the subject matter there and been told to get lost, in not so many words, so I cannot imagine how it makes the silent lurkers feel.  Still, it's there already, and as long as it doesn't get worse, sorting it into another subfolder is hardly going to make a difference.

^this^

 

People were saying they wanted an "R-rated" area, and when others asked what for, some said why shouldn't they be free to say whatever they liked, and so on, and that kids shouldn't be here if they can't hack it.

Edited October 16, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[Psykotika]

I believe a mature section for several of the boards such as GD and RP would be beneficial in making this forum more "kid friendly" actually. It wouldn't be an announced section, just one not-visible to anyone who does not put a birthday on their profile, or whose birthdate puts them at under 16 - 18 years of age (I give the broad range because I believe 16-18 is about the age when a lot of these more mature topics come to the fore in people's lives.

I don't think that simply removing or banning topics with darker or more mature themes is necessarily a good idea. See, as someone pointed out a bit ago (sorry I can't remember your name) the majority of the userbase here is prominently prepubescent or young teens, what a lot of you don't seem to realize is that this is a period of 'change and discovery' as those terrible teen informational videos say, so basically a lot of DC's users are encountering and tackling these mature issues on a regular basis in their day to day lives. Removing or censoring these topics makes it harder for these teens to learn about them, and the various sides to them; which could potentially cause their desire to talk about these things to come up in various other threads more often (as it already happens sometimes where egg killing turns into religious debates and whatnot but I'd worry about it happening more often if it were censored off the forum completely.)

Now comes the problem of well, ok that's all well and good BUT this is a DC forum based around a game, it's not a place for that sort of thing because its main focus is the game, no? Well.... not entirely. In theory, yes, however the forum userbase is probably thousands strong at this point - though only a few hundred are actually active - but the point is, this is an active community that comes together perhaps initially due to the game at its centre, but eventually friends/acquintances are made and people come back for the social opputunities; thus we have not just a forum but an actual community. Healthy communities encourage open discourse rather than censoring and hiding it, though I agree some topics should not be available to younger members, which is why I'd suggest a sub-board of more mature topics (no explicit sexual content/swearing/drug advocacy would still be enforced as per board rules) that would be hidden from younger members or those who do not wish to put their birthdays on profile. Yes, the issue of younger members passing themselves off as older could arise, and perhaps be dealt with on a member-to-member basis IF it causes disruptions within the mature board - I have known some exceptionally mature people of meager years.

 

tl;dr - Make mature board (eplicit things still banned) hidden from younger users - cause overall boards to become more kid-friendly in atmosphere as mature discourse is not in plain view.

 

*deposits $0.02 on my way out*

[auria]

Most of what I'm seeing is that there's a lot of people who aren't on the same page with what would be going on in a "mature" section. When is was first suggested ( read the first 35 pages and then skipped ahead because I thought my eyeballs might pop out from so much computer screen time) it was suggested as an "R-rated section" but described as a place for serious discussion. Not sexually explicit, not graphically violent, not cussing all over the place, just more serious.

 

Some people thought it should allow cussing, but the general consensus seemed to be that the censor kipz was there for a reason and should stay, as well as "R-rated" not being the same as an R movie, but more of a "Mature Content Warning" kind of rating. Which suggested to me that things like religion, abortion, death, etc could be discussed in much the same way as it already is in GD, but allowed to get more into the ideology behind the ethics, and allowing for more in-depth discussion. And by separating those discussions from the lighter ones would make it easier for people who aren't comfortable with the content to avoid it altogether. I don't know how to RP, so I don't go into the RP forums. Someone else doesn't like discussions about mature topics? They can avoid the "Mature Discussion" forum just as easily.

 

Do I support it? Yes. Do we REALLY REALLY need it? No. But I'm sure some of the people on this forum have created bonds with the other users, and don't want to go find a whole new group of people to have these discussions with, which is why they want that particular area. And some of the younger users might feel more comfortable reading about it here than elsewhere on the internet, because they have already established a good amount of common ground with the users on DC.

 

In the end, we don't need it, and it might never happen, but it's better to ask and hear a "no" than to keep wondering about it and wishing it would happen of it's own accord. In the end it's up to TJ, I believe, and all we can do is make a decent case for it.

[~!~]

Wouldn't a "serious" subforum in GD just serve to separate the two kinds of threads in GD, rather than encourage the discussion of topics that were never brought up there?

 

Also:

the majority of the userbase here is prominently prepubescent or young teens

I'm no expert, but I'd think our userbase is made up more of the 20-40 crowd.