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Most the time when content is removed from people saying they were warned or on post mod or etc., it is times when they are trying to start drama and provoke angry reactions from people or have inadvertently started drama.

I suppose.

 

Although, I can't help but thinking that in a situation where somebody did something and then were warned for it, if mentioning that they got a warn is enough to stir up drama, there was probably a problem with the warn being given out. (Unless they're trolling, trying to get everybody to yell at them, rather than trying to get everybody to argue.)

[Obscure_Trash]

Many times people are angry with their warn and skew the story to get others angry or only tell part of it. Nobody but themselves and the mod/s who did the warning know the whole story, and only telling a part of that story may indeed be cause for drama, whereas if the whole story was known, it wouldn't cause any drama.

[HeatherMarie]

So, just to clarify, it's okay to mention that I got a warn for such-and-such, if I do it in an unbiased way without trying to stir up drama? Like, for instance, if the topic came up again and I just calmly mentioned that it's something that warns are given out for, would that be okay?

[Obscure_Trash]

Yes, there have been instances where that has happened before and that has been fine.

 

For example - a popular dragon request (as Nin brought up) is going on and the OP doesn't read the rules and spams some places and gets on a few days posting moderation. They post in the thread "Updates look good, but I think the wings are still too small to lift the dragon. Btw, I'll be around a little less or my replies may come slowly since I'm on posting moderation. Be sure to check back a few posts just in case my reply shows up after yours! =)"

(An example of how not to handle it: "=\ I got a warning out of nowhere and now I can't post in my own topic. It's so dumb. I'm thinking about giving this topic up because it's useless now. =\" Not only is that post trying to stir up drama, it's also spam. If they don't understand the warn or disagree with it, they can PM a mod for clarification or to give better explanation of the situation and get the warn removed.)

 

:3

[KainNight]

Well,I just wanted to say something about the forum,and I'm speaking directly to TJ.

I wont send you a PM because you're busy with your work,so I will speak here to all users so they have the chance to see it,and maybe to have a response from you when you have the time.

I think mods abuse their power very often.Warns are perfectly ok,but censoring things they just don't like to hear is another.And it is perfectly correct to censoring bad words,ect.But not try to silence an user's opinion and freedom of speech.

I don't use the forum too much as you can see it,because I really don't like the atmosphere here.I see that many people post with fear,saying in their posts like "oh,I'm so sorry if it is in the wrong section!" or "I'm so sorry,please delete my post if there is already one similar!" or,to be more specific:"I'm so very sorry,I said what i needed,and I'm afraid to get a warn or a censor".

There is a feeling of group here.If you do not belong the group then you're out.

I see this happen so often with newbies,and this is very commented in other foruns,so many people are getting away from here.

 

Just my opinion and feedback.

[hazeh]

Hm? As a newbie, I've never gotten that vibe at all from these forums. I got along well fine with everyone. Just because someone says "Oh I'm so sorry for this" doesn't necessarily mean they're afraid, they're just trying to be cautious. There's nothing wrong with that. I would be cautious too if I was new and wasn't totally familiar with the rules. I got warned a few times when I first started out, but they helped me learn how to act appropriately in the forums. That's what mods are there for.

 

Yes, there are a few tighter loops of people that have made good friendships. But just because you can tell they're good friends doesn't mean they're going to outright reject you. Being nice, helping out, and having pleasant conversations with people are a great way to make friends on the forums. That's how I did it. Just participate in things that you have in common, share some laughs, get involved. Sitting on the sidelines certainly isn't going to help a community become more open.

 

 

Again, I don't think fear plays a part in the apologizing. I would likely say "I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section" if I wasn't sure but felt as though whatever I was posting did go there. That way others knew that I was uncertain and was just seeking a little guidance. No one is ever going to attack a new person for doing something wrong. I would never expect a new person to know every single rule by heart right when they start out.

[Obscure_Trash]

Well,I just wanted to say something about the forum,and I'm speaking directly to TJ.

I wont send you a PM because you're busy with your work,so I will speak here to all users so they have the chance to see it,and maybe to have a response from you when you have the time.

 

If you think TJ is too busy to read a PM, why would he have the time to come on here and reply to this? o_O

 

If you looked at my above explanation or read my edits, you'd see why the posts were edited. In the future, PM'ing TJ09 about problems you have with the way modding is done or complaints about anyone on the modding staff might get you further than a public post trying to "rally the public". ^^

[HeatherMarie]

I don't see that at all here.

 

Yes, some of the rules here are strictly enforced, and warns seem to be handed out often for rule-breaking. And occasionally I have seen moments where mods seem to be a little quick to jump, especially in closing threads for "drama" or "possible drama".

 

But I definitely don't get the scared/fear vibe. Honestly, it's common courtesy to say something like "oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize I'd posted in the wrong section!" when you are told that. And, because *many* threads get closed and moved because of being in the wrong section, it makes sense that people might say "sorry if this is in the wrong section" in their post. That's not fear, that's just logic. That's just people respecting the rules and guidelines.

 

I do agree with one thing, though, and that's the "censoring opinions". Specifically, it frustrates me to no end that any negative feedback about sprites are met with "don't say that" or "they worked hard on that!" or "that isn't needed here" etc. You'll see that a lot in new-release threads. We can't all LOOOOVE every single sprite that comes out, and I think it's reasonable to expect that it be okay to say so.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have been warned. More than once. In only ONE case was I even mildly miffed - because I didn't (and still don't) think it was what the mod said it was... BUT - that said - I think the mods here are very fair indeed, adn do a great job.

 

I have been in an unmodded forum which in the end died as a direct result of no-one taking action against a troll and a few of his supporters. I have also been in a forum where for the good of all, people have been warned and finally banned. People who are deliberately winding things up for fun need to be booted out, and need NOT to be able to come back and whine about WHY they were warned and so on. Because - come on - that is WHY they were modded.

 

One basically unmodded forum (except for people who post PMs in public...) I am in, it's three warns - as in justifiable complaints from other members - and you're out. End of. People there behave beautifully, with one exception. She has two warns and hasn't posted since...!

 

We need mods. (Those who know me from another forum will be amazed to see me say this, as I have actively campaigned against them for years. I changed my mind, OK ?? ) And the mods here are excellent.

[B-chan]

Um... I work as a mod in two other forums. Both have a very different set of rules - and usually the new users get the impression, that the enforced rules are unfair.

Every forum has a set of rules of its own and learning those rules is just like coming to a new group of people and getting to know their rules. You wouldn't get into a group and tell them their grouprules are - 'cause you'll just be looked at strangely and then not be part of that group - or even ruin your chances of ever being part of that group.

 

What I want to say is:

As a mod you really have a lot to do in most forums and usually it takes a lot of patience explaining the same things over and over and over and over and over again.

 

Yes, it would be easier, if the search was functioning better.

Yes, it would be nice if the read topics wouldn't show up as unread in the new posts list when having clicked the egg.

 

But quite frankly? To be a mod is most often rather being a pain in the ass - though I have to admit that when nice users come along, it is a lot of fun as well.

[olympe]

Most the time when content is removed from people saying they were warned or on post mod or etc., it is times when they are trying to start drama and provoke angry reactions from people or have inadvertently started drama.

That's not quite true. I once got warned for censor evasion (using a single letter and three asterisks - no, it was neither an insult levelled at someone else nor the letter F or S, and I still don't get why people read a 5-letter word into it), and I thought this warn was somewhere between hilarious and ridiculous. When I put a screenshot of the PM I got about it in my signature (with something like What the ...? Seriously?), it got deleted with the following reasoning:

• Censor evasion in sig (it was a single letter!)

• sharing private information (okay, if you want to see it like that; I considered the message to be at least semi-offical)

• causing drama (excuse me? drama? What the...?)

• breaking of forum rules. (Which other rules but "censor evasion"? I just read them again, couldn't find anything else that applies)

 

Many times people are angry with their warn and skew the story to get others angry or only tell part of it. Nobody but themselves and the mod/s who did the warning know the whole story, and only telling a part of that story may indeed be cause for drama, whereas if the whole story was known, it wouldn't cause any drama.

That can't have been it, either. After all, I put the whole story in there, right?

[Fiona]

(aimed at Marie19's comment, not that I disagree with her comment, but...)

 

I think the whole thing about people shushing users who comment that they don't like a certain sprite is generated by the users, not the mods. It comes from what happened at the time the frills were retired. Users hear "I dun't liek dat sprite" and think "OH NO! It will be the Frills all over again!" and jump to shush the user making the comment.

 

There were some things said at that time about the Frill sprite that was inappropriate. I don't think that was the only factor in their being retired, but nevertheless, that's what people remember as the cause. Because they fear the same thing happening again they are quick to jump all over anyone who makes a negative comment regarding a sprite. Some of the people who fear this could also be mods, but I don't think they're speaking as mods, but are expressing personal opinions.

[Obscure_Trash]

Keep in mind that mods are not superhuman - we are human. If you were, perhaps, censoring a word not forum censored, PM the mod and explain the situation. Otherwise, they assume the word is inappropriate and you're evading the censor for a reason.

 

Putting a copy of the warn in your signature to laugh at it/get other users to speak up about how it's ridiculous is trying to invoke a public reaction and cause drama.

Warns are private for a reason - sharing the intimate details of them isn't very private.

Why can't "breaking forum rules" just also mean "censor evasion"?

 

If you disagree with a warn, the best course of action is to PM the mod or TJ and explain the situation, not to publicly make fun of it. :3

[olympe]

Why can't "breaking forum rules" just also mean "censor evasion"?

Double jeopardy?

 

Also, I like your reasoning that laughing = drama. Maybe I just got the definition wrong? After all, I'm just a stoopid non-native speaker...

[Fuzzbucket]

Double jeopardy?

 

Also, I like your reasoning that laughing = drama. Maybe I just got the definition wrong? After all, I'm just a stoopid non-native speaker...

You aren't stooopid and your English is fine.

 

But - well, my MAIN forum activity is on one where NO META DISCUSSION of modding decisions is permitted - precisely for this kind of reason. It is kind of adding to the Original Sin (even though you didn't see it as such !) to post about it in your sig. maybe yours was a very minor offence. But there was a charming thread just the other day where someone's scroll had been burned and she invoked all sorts of hatred on TJ. She was modded. As one would expect. Would it have been OK for her to carry on the fight in her sig ?

 

Thing is - it has to be one rule for all, or everyone demands an exception, and where do you draw the line....

 

I am still rather startled by a censorkipz I hit (elsewhere) for a word with another word in there - the name of a town in France I wanted to visit...

 

****ichet (oh - here too First 4 letters start with a P. Can I link to wiki ? here it is maybe...

 

Nope

 

These things happen. How much does it REALLY matter ? One gets a warn, one chills and says oops... and moves on. Unless it was deliberate - in which case - well, fair cop ! Modding is a horrid job, but I would rather it happen and see people like the woman who posted the other day washed out of the threads !

 

(Mods - that French town is only here as an EXAMPLE of weird and rather funny censorkipping, honest )

Edited August 17, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[olympe]

Oh, your French town should be fine - after all, you let the censor pick up what it was meant to pick up.

 

Btw, took me a while to figure out the name, but I managed. (Long while is long, though.)

[KainNight]

Keep in mind that mods are not superhuman - we are human.

 

If you disagree with a warn, the best course of action is to PM the mod or TJ and explain the situation, not to publicly make fun of it. :3

indeed,mods are not super.But everything is read and the warns are given in a very short amount of time,so I believe some mods pass a lot of their time here.

It can be passion for the site; Dedication; I don't know.

 

And about PM'ing TJ,why should we?

My friend PM'ed TJ sometimes and he never answered.If he have the time to comment here on the forum as you've said above,why he cannot even make a tiny answer to a member?

By the way,she send him a PM regarding a dragon she's making on Dragon Requests.

She was worried about some things and kindly asked him help or advices.He just saw the message and didn't answer.He could at least had said to her:"I don't have the time,sorry".

There are a lot of people here making dragons for free to Dragon Cave,and that takes time and work.So,there could be at least some respect for this people.

Yes,because many good spriters and creators charge for they work.I wonder how would be the cave now if there wasn't so many dedicated people that do all the job for free.

I call this at least,disrespectful regarding this situation.

just my opinion.

[DragonNeko]

I've been warned a few times for causing drama and i understand that but my latest warn I don't think I really should've got but whatever I did something wrong but I wish I was told to take down the post before gettin warned

[KainNight]

That's the great lack in this forum.

people should be contacted first by a mod,and the mod should explain what you're doing wrong,advice you,so you can understand and stop it.

My friend is almost kicked out from this forum with warns,because the mods just don't care about send a PM before stick the user with the warn.

I don't see this happen in other foruns.It is the big non-sense I've ever saw.

[Obscure_Trash]

That's the great lack in this forum.

people should be contacted first by a mod,and the mod should explain what you're doing wrong,advice you,so you can understand and stop it.

You just described the purpose of a warn. And in some cases, like with your friend, we do either post a verbal warning in the thread or PM the user. ^^

 

~

 

About TJ - many times he replies better on IRC, so that's what I would try if you're looking for an opinion from him. Mostly with PMs, he deals with things that can be taken care of without a reply to the user (for example, taking care of a multi or removing a warn or talking to a mod who has gotten complaints against them).

Keep in mind college classes will be starting up soon, so TJ will be less available in the near future. :3

[KainNight]

You just described the purpose of a warn. And in some cases, like with your friend, we do either post a verbal warning in the thread or PM the user. ^^

 

~

 

About TJ - many times he replies better on IRC, so that's what I would try if you're looking for an opinion from him. Mostly with PMs, he deals with things that can be taken care of without a reply to the user (for example, taking care of a multi or removing a warn or talking to a mod who has gotten complaints against them).

Keep in mind college classes will be starting up soon, so TJ will be less available in the near future. :3

Yes,you PM users AFTER they got the warn.You should PM them BEFORE,so they can correct their mistakes.And post a warn in the thread is not a clever solution,since the member may not come back to see it.

 

So that's really a shame,many people can't use the IRC due their limited internet connection.That should be a way that could reach all users.

[Obscure_Trash]

People wanted a better system for knowing they received a warn, which is why I PM what the warn is. This has been gone over many times. PM'ing the user then makes things harder to keep track of for mods. If we post in the thread, any other mod can come along and simply look back to see if a warning has been giving yet, rather than having to go on a wild goose hunt or having five mods all PM the same person (would that not be intimidating?). It is the user's responsibility to read the rules and sticky's - especially if sticky's are titled something like "guidelines" or "restrictions" - something that tips the user off there is important information in them (besides the fact that they've been sticky'd). :3

 

If a user has already received a warn in one section for breaking the rules, perhaps they should go over the rules so that they don't receive another warn. If they have any questions about a warn or about a rule or a sticky, they are free to PM a mod for clarification. :3

[HeatherMarie]

From my understanding about "warns" (I've only gotten 2 since I've been here, but...), PMing beforehand would really defeat the entire purpose.

 

Warns aren't "OMG YOU DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE STOP IT NOW!", warns are just that: A simply warn to remind you about the forum rules.

 

Imo, PMing every single person *before* handing out a warn would make the warn-function itself completely redundant.

 

(also, how many spammers/trolls/etc would go back and edit their post if they got a PM beforehand, and then maybe there is no proof that they were breaking the rules in the first place?)

[Dr. Paine]

From my understanding about "warns" (I've only gotten 2 since I've been here, but...), PMing beforehand would really defeat the entire purpose.

 

Warns aren't "OMG YOU DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE STOP IT NOW!", warns are just that: A simply warn to remind you about the forum rules.

 

Imo, PMing every single person *before* handing out a warn would make the warn-function itself completely redundant.

 

(also, how many spammers/trolls/etc would go back and edit their post if they got a PM beforehand, and then maybe there is no proof that they were breaking the rules in the first place?)

As someone who's gotten several warns, I have to agree And the initiative to PM people and give a clear explanation is very helpful

[B-chan]

People wanted a better system for knowing they received a warn, which is why I PM what the warn is. This has been gone over many times. PM'ing the user then makes things harder to keep track of for mods. If we post in the thread, any other mod can come along and simply look back to see if a warning has been giving yet, rather than having to go on a wild goose hunt or having five mods all PM the same person (would that not be intimidating?). It is the user's responsibility to read the rules and sticky's - especially if sticky's are titled something like "guidelines" or "restrictions" - something that tips the user off there is important information in them (besides the fact that they've been sticky'd). :3

 

If a user has already received a warn in one section for breaking the rules, perhaps they should go over the rules so that they don't receive another warn. If they have any questions about a warn or about a rule or a sticky, they are free to PM a mod for clarification. :3

I can so much relate to you, Sock

Got the same problem in one of my modding forums... especially kids or kid-like-thinking people are the ones who don't read the rules, don't abide by them and afterwards usually complain - even when warned - that they can't post, can't login ('cause their account has been suspended for a few days...) and such.

 

So here's a big hug for the mods, who keep this running and usually at a nice conversation level