Abortion

[Laryal]

I am 5 billion times more concerned about the physical and mental health of a living, breathing, conscious human being than whether a virtual game about pixel dragons exists. I would trade every virtual game in existence to assure the well-being of a person.

My point is made here see ya all.

[sparkle10184]

What if's don't matter. What if that fetus grows up to be the next Stalin or Hitler?

[Eclipseheart]

What if's don't matter. What if that fetus grows up to be the next Stalin or Hitler?

Laryal has made it apparent that they don't care to read what has been put to them, as this was stated previously. They kept reiterating on previous topics that had been well-covered. I guess it's time to keep moving on:

 

Is there any way that anyone thinks abortion isn't okay? I'm pro-choice so I pretty much see no fault in saying "I just do not want this thing growing inside of me take it out now" even if they're married and want a baby later on.

 

Opinions?

[Kith]

Is there any way that anyone thinks abortion isn't okay?

If someone's being forced to have one. There may be other conditions where I'd be uncomfortable with it, but as it wouldn't be my decision, I wouldn't call them wrong per se.

[TCA]

Yeah, choice is about, well, choice. If someone is being pressured into aborting when they want to keep it, that's just as bad as pressuring someone who wants an abortion into keeping the baby!

[hazeh]

I did see this mentioned somewhere along the lines of: "Every abortion is not a wanted fetus." That is incorrect. Many abortions are wanted fetuses, mostly those with terminal conditions once born. All possibilities should be kept in mind when discussing the topic of abortion. Some of those babies are wanted, but the parents chose what they believed was best for their potential child.

 

 

*Edited for clarity.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[linda3.0]

there should be no choice you have the baby regardless and then put him or her up for adoption or allow a family member or friend or w/e to raise them. i mean for goodness sake there are huge waiting lists of potential families who for some reason either cant have a kid or want to open their home to another child etc. its a hideously ugly crime to kill a child and to have their own mother the one person in this world whose supposed to protect them and love them the most be the one who decides to have them murdered is just disgusting... besides people say "oh well its her body" uh no it isnt that babys body is just that his or her own body and im sure the baby im sure does not want to die in the horrible painful ways in which we seem to believe it is alright to murder them. besides you're only pregnant for less than a year if youre really that selfish that you cant give up less than a year of your anywhere between 80-100 years of life to do the right thing for a child then hopefully you never bear children anyway because you clearly do not value them in the first place. also it isnt a far stretch from being ok with killing a baby inside the womb to deciding that killing a child outside the womb is fine as well so id never let someone whose ok with baby murder around my kid to begin with.

[Obscure_Trash]

 

You are right but  there is a chance they could be the ones to find the cures as well.

There's a chance the pregnant person could be the one to find a much needed cure. But because they were denied abortion, they stayed in an abusive relationship and were kept away from education or furthering themselves in the workplace. Or they were denied an abortion and, thanks to the immense cost of pregnancy - not to mention childcare - went into debt and ended up having to take three minimum wage jobs just to keep themselves and their child alive, once again being kept away from an environment where they could develop an important cure. Or perhaps they are denied an abortion and, since their partner makes more money than them and daycare is too expensive, they decide to become a stay-at-home parent where they are not in an environment to develop any cures. Or maybe they were denied an abortion and couldn't continue to stay on much needed medications for their mental health and they commit suicide, leaving them no chance to pursue their own life any longer, much less come up with some important cure.

 

But when it comes down to it, all these what ifs are nonsense. I do not believe in a world where ONE person and ONE person only can be the one to accomplish good or great things. Maybe person A would have developed a cure to cancer sooner than person B, but due to whatever circumstances, person A is never able to try to make a cure; however, person B does some years down the road.

 

None of this really has anything at all to do with abortion.

 

No one, not one being, has a right to use someone else's body without permission. We cannot harvest organs from a corpse without prior permission, even if that would save countless lives. A fetus has no right to use a pregnant person's body without permission. Bodily autonomy is the key here. A fetus could become a person - but it is not yet. It is a developing clump of cells. That is it. Such is the nature of a fetus.

 

But yet even in the womb babies can learn and have been know to have learned at the earliest stages.So if they are nothing more than a blob of cells then we are to and we can be killied with out no one batting an eye.

 

By definition, babies are not in a womb. They are recently out of the womb.

 

The links you provided (thanks for providing them!) tell me that fetus' react to stimuli (which I already knew has been proven) and some interesting facts on human survival. None of them show that a fetus has any right to deprave a pregnant person of their bodily autonomy and personal choice, so again, I don't really see the relevancy of the point. ^^;;

 

Yes, we are blobs of cells. But we are also individual beings who have a right to life, including bodily autonomy. A fetus has no right to encroach on that.

 

there should be no choice you have the baby regardless and then put him or her up for adoption or allow a family member or friend or w/e to raise them. i mean for goodness sake there are huge waiting lists of potential families who for some reason either cant have a kid or want to open their home to another child etc. its a hideously ugly crime to kill a child and to have their own mother the one person in this world whose supposed to protect them and love them the most be the one who decides to have them murdered is just disgusting... besides people say "oh well its her body" uh no it isnt that babys body is just that his or her own body and im sure the baby im sure does not want to die in the horrible painful ways in which we seem to believe it is alright to murder them. besides you're only pregnant for less than a year if youre really that selfish that you cant give up less than a year of your anywhere between 80-100 years of life to do the right thing for a child then hopefully you never bear children anyway because you clearly do not value them in the first place. also it isnt a far stretch from being ok with killing a baby inside the womb to deciding that killing a child outside the womb is fine as well so id never let someone whose ok with baby murder around my kid to begin with.

 

Know what else there's a huge waiting list for? Kids waiting to be adopted. Even if all the people who wanted to adopt were suddenly financially able to and were easily passed through all the barriers to adoption, there would still be kids waiting to be adopted.

 

In the U.S. 397,122 children are living without permanent families in the foster care system. 101,666 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 32% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.

Around the world, there are an estimated 153 million orphans who have lost one parent. There are 17,900,000 orphans who have lost both parents and are living in orphanages or on the streets and lack the care and attention required for healthy development. These children are at risk for disease, malnutrition, and death.

In 2012, 23,396 youth aged out of the U.S. foster care system without the emotional and financial support necessary to succeed. Nearly 40% had been homeless or couch surfed, nearly 60% of young men had been convicted of a crime, and only 48% were employed. 75% of women and 33% of men receive government benefits to meet basic needs. 50% of all youth who aged out were involved in substance use and 17% of the females were pregnant.

As of 2012, more than 58,000 children in the U.S. foster care system were placed in institutions or group homes, not in traditional foster homes.

States spent a mere 1.2-1.3% of available federal funds on parent recruitment and training services even though 22% of children in foster care had adoption as their goal.

Three years is the average length of time a child in foster care waits to be adopted. Roughly 55% of these children have had three or more placements. An earlier study found that 33% of children had changed elementary schools five or more times, losing relationships and falling behind educationally.

 

http://www.ccainstitute.org/index.php?opti...id=25&Itemid=43

 

The majority of people who want children are unable to adopt, and as it is, only 2-3% of children [this was 2010, in 2011 this dropped to 1-2%] given up at birth to be adopted through the state are actually adopted.

The rest stay in the system until they die or age out, statistically going through at least one abusive foster home.

1 in 3 [children in foster care] will tell a social worker that they wish they had been aborted.

16% of those under 12 will attempt to commit suicide and fail. Another 9% will succeed. Of those that fail, 86% will attempt again, even if removed from the foster family they were with at the time.

In foster kids 12-18, 82% will attempt suicide before aging out, of those who do not die prior to reaching 18. in 94% of these cases, they will state that they wish they had never been born, or wish they had been aborted.

 

United States Child Protective Services Inter-State Study of Child Welfare in Foster Care, 2010

 

Personal experiences on adoption vs. abortion Warning for language in links: http://www.shakesville.com/2009/03/breakin...pro-lifers.html

The story of parents who give kids up for adoption: http://herbadmother.com/2008/08/lost-boy/

 

Average cost for pre-natal doctor’s visits: 1,862-3,543

Ultrasound: $100-400 for the cheap ones. From $500 up if complications are involved.

Pre-natal tests: $1,100-$2,000 assuming standard tests only and no reason for more expensive ones.

Vaginal delivery without complication: $6,200 -$7,500

Vaginal delivery with complication: $8,200 - $10,500

C-section without complication: $11,500 - $13,000

C-section with complication = $15,500 - $ 18,200

Hospital stay: $4,000 - $6,000

Neonatal and pediatric care: $900 - $2,000 (no complications)

Neonatal and pediatric care: 1,500 -4,000 (with complications)

 

Average cost to give a child up for adoption, with fees included, at birth, not including all the above $7,000-10,000

 

(Thanks to ShinyTomato for a lot of the adoption and cost information!)

 

As well, adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy. About three pages ago, we discussed some of the complications to pregnancy and why not everyone can go through it. Kestra had an excellent post of resources of the health effects of pregnancy.

 

Yes, I am selfish. It is okay to value you own life. That is natural and valid. I stated a few pages ago how uncomfortable the thought of pregnancy even makes me. I would kill myself long before the pregnancy ended. I would not be able to deal with the constant breakdowns I know I would have, considering I have had anxiety attacks just thinking about how I'd deal with it. Is the loss of two lives really better than allowing me an abortion? =(

Edited September 13, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Slaskia]

i mean for goodness sake there are huge waiting lists of potential families who for some reason either cant have a kid or want to open their home to another child etc

 

If that's the case, why is there so many unwanted kids languishing in the adoption/foster care system? I call BS....

 

Edit: epic 'ed by Sock...

Edited September 13, 2015 by Slaskia

[senyi]

also it isnt a far stretch from being ok with killing a baby inside the womb to deciding that killing a child outside the womb is fine as well so id never let someone whose ok with baby murder around my kid to begin with.

baby =/= fetus though...

also, how would you know who's okay with "baby murder" (abortion, not baby murder)? another thing i'd like to add is that abortion isn't baby murder. infanticide is baby murder, which abortion is not.

[Infinis]

I did see this mentioned somewhere along the lines of: "Every abortion is not a wanted fetus." That is incorrect. Many abortions are wanted fetuses, mostly those with terminal conditions once born. All possibilities should be kept in mind when discussing the topic of abortion. Some of those babies are wanted, but the parents chose what they believed was best for their potential child.

 

 

*Edited for clarity.

Ah, this was me, and thank you for pointing that out - I forgot to consider that when I said it. Sorry D:

 

EDIT:

 

there should be no choice you have the baby regardless and then put him or her up for adoption or allow a family member or friend or w/e to raise them. i mean for goodness sake there are huge waiting lists of potential families who for some reason either cant have a kid or want to open their home to another child etc.

 

You assume a family member or friend is able and willing to take care of a child. And who is 'whatever' supposed to be? Random people aren't a good choice to give a kid to. :/

 

There are hundreds of thousands of children waiting to be adopted and many never will be. Why is it okay to keep pushing kids into a broken system?

 

besides people say "oh well its her body" uh no it isnt that babys body is just that his or her own body and im sure the baby im sure does not want to die in the horrible painful ways in which we seem to believe it is alright to murder them.

 

Yes, it IS the parent's body that is being used. The fetus has a separate body, but no one is allowed to use anyone else's body against their will, and that goes for pregnant persons too.

 

besides you're only pregnant for less than a year if youre really that selfish that you cant give up less than a year of your anywhere between 80-100 years of life to do the right thing for a child then hopefully you never bear children anyway because you clearly do not value them in the first place.

 

Why should I be forced to be pregnant for no other reason than you think it's wrong for me to abort it? Are you going to take in the child if I'm forced to carry it to term?

 

also it isnt a far stretch from being ok with killing a baby inside the womb to deciding that killing a child outside the womb is fine as well so id never let someone whose ok with baby murder around my kid to begin with.

 

Yes, it is a stretch, because infanticide is not the same thing.

 

I am also interested to know your views on medical anomalies incompatible with life - should fetuses like that be born even though they will die?

Edited September 13, 2015 by Infinis

[St. Jimmy]

if youre really that selfish that you cant give up less than a year of your anywhere between 80-100 years of life to do the right thing for a child then hopefully you never bear children anyway because you clearly do not value them in the first place.

Hey, something we can agree on! While I wouldn't say I don't value children, I would not be able to cope with the psychological damage that that less than a year would give me, so I hope I never get pregnant either!

 

also it isnt a far stretch from being ok with killing a baby inside the womb to deciding that killing a child outside the womb is fine as well

It really is though? A fetus does not have bodily autonomy, while a baby or child does.

[hazeh]

Until there is another alternative to pregnacy, there should always be the choice of abortion. If you don't like it, that is your own choice to make. But you cannot make that choice for someone else. You cannot force someone to go through a pregnancy they don't want. And you also cannot tell a parent that their choice to abort their potential child is worse or wrong than allowing that fetus to develop into a person that will die at the age of 13 after living years in physical agony, whose immune systems are assaulted by the tiniest of sneezes, who are rendered so disabled by their pain that they cannot walk or move more than a few minutes at a time before they are crippled by the genetic malfunction that could have been spared by abortion.

I don't know about you, but I think my mothers' best friends made the right choice in peacefully letting go of their potential child before they forced it into such a life as those with your opinions would have. And when their later child was shown not to have that mutation, they loved him just as much and as well as another other parent.

Besides, those who worried about the religious side of things--- that's God's judgement to make, not yours.

 

Abortions are not painful procedures for the fetus anyhow. They haven't even developed the proper neurosystems to even feel something akin to pain-- the only thing they've been recorded reacting to is stimuli, which is not the same as a painful response. Most abortions are as simple as vacuuming a zygote off the uterine wall.

[Tish]

there should be no choice you have the baby regardless and then put him or her up for adoption or allow a family member or friend or w/e to raise them. i mean for goodness sake there are huge waiting lists of potential families who for some reason either cant have a kid  or want to open their home to another child etc. its a hideously ugly crime to kill a child and to have their own mother the one person in this world whose supposed to protect them and love them the most be the one who decides to have them murdered is just disgusting... besides people say "oh well its her body" uh no it isnt that babys body is just that his or her own body and im sure the baby im sure does not want to die in the horrible painful ways in which we seem to believe it is alright to murder them. besides you're only pregnant for less than a year if youre really that selfish that you cant give up less than a year of your anywhere between 80-100 years of life to do the right thing for a child then hopefully you never bear children anyway because you clearly do not value them in the first place. also it isnt a far stretch from being ok with killing a baby inside the womb to deciding that killing a child outside the womb is fine as well so id never let someone whose ok with baby murder around my kid to begin with.

 

I'm shocked there are people that think like this. You really want to force someone to carry a pregnancy to term? Forcing this on someone could be harmful to both the mother and unborn maybe even fatal. You have no right to take that choice away because of your beliefs in fact I think its selfish to bring a life into this world if you are not ready for it.

 

Because they got pregnant is not a reason to make someone have a child. There should ALWAYS be a choice.

 

also it isnt a far stretch from being ok with killing a baby inside the womb to deciding that killing a child outside the womb is fine as well so id never let someone whose ok with baby murder around my kid to begin with.

This bit is just ridiculous there is a big difference between a fetus and a living, breathing baby that has been born. Believing abortion is necessary does not make one have no morals what so ever.

 

To be honest I don't get the whole we must save them all thing. It is often kinder if they don't get to be born at all. Do you think about the kind of life they might have or do you just see a life that has to survive no matter the cost?

Edited September 13, 2015 by tishavara

[Esko]

If every pregnant person was forced to carry their child to term, the population would burst, and I mean BURST. I'm not saying we're overpopulated, nessescarily, but 7 billion and counting is rather large, don't you think?

 

Forcing pregnancies just to "save the childrenz" may actually hurt the child more than help it. Too much stress isn't good for a pregnancy, correct? Well, if a parent went through pregnancy and was forced, that's already a lot of stress on that parent. Forcing anybody isn't a good idea, especially if it's forcing a person to let something feed off their body.

If adoption was the "better" choice, then more people would choose that. However, with all the other kids in the adoption program, the child doesn't have a large chance of being adopted.

 

When you think about it, it all boils down to choice. Everybody is entitled to a choice at least once. If a parent decides to go through a pregnancy that could harm them or the child, it is their choice. If a person decides to get an abortion, it's their choice. But people who decide to get an abortion are not "murderers" or "okay with 'baby murder'". If somebody was actually okay with infanticide, then by all means, keep them away. But many good people don't think abortion is bad.

[CatCreature]

Let me tell you a story see my mom was sick with rumatic fever when she was with me.The doctors told her she could abort me bu she said no.I am alive and well with cerebral palsy but is my life any more valuanble than any one of you? So all you guys who think killing a baby is good.I would not be here today if you were my mom.

Your mother made a choice to keep you. And now you want to deny others to have that choice?

 

Please step outside your life and see how others live theirs. Not everyone can make that choice. But they should still be able to have that option.

 

--------------------

 

Everytime people yell about abortion being murder, do you think miscarrying is murder too? Should we throw people in jail for this?

 

And for those who have a hard time understanding bodily autonomy:

What is the difference between

a lover and a rapist?

an intruder and a guest?

a clump of cells and an unborn child?

[BlitzDrake]

So if I have a crippling fear of getting impregnated that would MAKE ME KILL MYSELF I still need to spawn it? Well one, I WOULD kill myself if that was the case (couldn't get rid of it), and two, that would kill me and "that precious cell clump" you call a life. Pretty messed up logic imo

 

Also no problem with keeping me away from your offspring. I have much better things to be near than something that inherently disgusts me.

(The above is my view on children. It is not meant as a jab or disrespect towards another user. It is how I see them)

Look at those adoption stats. You can't tell me that brining ANY child into the world to throw into that system is not heartless. Especially beings many WISH that if they knew that was their life, they

 

 

Edit. Just because you have / support the prochoice doesn't mean you hate kids or infants

Edited September 13, 2015 by BlightWyvern

[Kith]

Can someone find the box o facts on adoptions by shinytomatoe? (My phone isn't working right)

Don't worry, Sock posted it earlier this page.

[Kestra15]

Is there any way that anyone thinks abortion isn't okay? I'm pro-choice so I pretty much see no fault in saying "I just do not want this thing growing inside of me take it out now" even if they're married and want a baby later on.

 

Opinions?

I don't agree with abortion being first-line 'contraception,' but that's not enough for me to stop anyone from having an abortion. I just feel that it is highly irresponsible for individuals who decide not to take precautions and simply go 'if you're pregnant, we'll just have an abortion.' Abortions carry risks to the mother after all, and it is irresponsible with their life and the resources of the medical community.

 

However that is the implication of allowing free choice; people will make decisions we consider unwise. Doesn't mean that we can't give them that choice.

[High Lord November]

Is there any way that anyone thinks abortion isn't okay? I'm pro-choice so I pretty much see no fault in saying "I just do not want this thing growing inside of me take it out now" even if they're married and want a baby later on.

If the abortion is forced against the will of the mother, that's generally not OK. Other than that some practices such as using it as a first-line contraceptive like Kestra mentioned above can be seen as distasteful but is in the minority (especially since so many other methods are available to attempt to prevent pregnancy) and shouldn't be an argument against allowing early abortions to be accessible unconditionally.

Edited September 13, 2015 by High Lord November

[Twyro]

there should be no choice you have the baby regardless and then put him or her up for adoption or allow a family member or friend or w/e to raise them.

I used to think the same way, but believe me, no matter how many families there are who would agree to adopt a child, there are sadly many, MANY more orphans out there who never have the luck to be accepted into a loving family. Most orphanages aren't even good institutions to begin with, more often than not I see texts and reports on how those children are treated in orphanages by people who should take care of them - they are often abused, starved and let's not mention other revolting things (one girl who was rejected by her mother as soon as she was born because she had a severe deformity / no arms / she was tortured by her caretaker, starved, tied up in an improvised bed and forced to sleep in her own feces and urine until she was adopted by a news reporter who was shocked by what she had seen). More often than not unwanted babies are murdered in cold blood with their corpses being dumped in trash cans (you'd be disgusted by how often that happens) or left out in the streets to die if no one picks them up, at least for human sympathy. I've seen cases of women who wanted to give birth to boys, but when they gave birth to girls they were murdered in cold blood, sometimes two children in the same family. So many deranged women who gave birth and later hated their children because they were expected to live a different life and dedicate to their children often turned to murder to solve their biggest problem and disturbance.

Another problem with adoption is that most families who do think of doing such a thing often only show interest for babies, rarely toddlers. Sadly, many children grow older in orphanages and just get left behind as unwanted or forgotten. No one deserves to have such a life, neither to be rejected, starving if the parents are struggling to survive and have a baby in such conditions, hated by their own parents and disposed of in the most monstrous ways, struggling with illnesses they cannot cope with, or any other reason. I support abortion if the child's life is destined to be nothing more than a deep and never ending misery. In any way. See above to see what I mean by potential misery.

Edited September 13, 2015 by *Silver Fox*

[DragonNighthowler]

Sorry i see what you mean it is still killing a future person no matter how you look at it even if that person is not born yet.I was talking mostly about those who are not married.If they loved someone they would wait and i redone my other message as well.But still killing an unborn is still killing a person.The fetus is not a dog or Elephant in a human it is a human.So basicly people who abort ae killing humans that is the fact.

So, killing a dog or an elephant is ok?

 

It surprises me how people who so vehemently defend human life can easily shrug off non human animal life as something unimportant. Abortion is not something unique to humans, by the way. Certain animal species have evolved abortion methods to safeguard the life of the female in times of scarcity or when the conditions are not favorable.

 

Just look on google where you will find them.People getting mad over adused animals

 

What?

 

First, let me point out that the term human and animal as two different things is incorrect. Human beings are a species of animals, therefore we are no different than an elephant or a dog, with the exception of the evolutionary differences that make us what we are.

 

Second, those of us (yes, I'm including myself in this) who feel angry at animal abuses also feel angry when a woman, a child, an elder or any other person (a fetus is NOT a person) is being abused.

 

An abortion is not an act of abuse. An act of abuse would be letting that child be born to suffer through extreme poverty or neglect.

 

Killing is killing no matter how you look at it.

 

Things are not that simple. Killing in self defense is wrong? It's killing. Killing to eat, what you do every single day, is it wrong? It's killing. Killing to alleviate the suffering of a terminally diseased person going through a terrible agony is wrong? It's killing.

 

The end is still death, the means and the reasons are also important.

 

why even consider life is life in or out why kill an unborn baby who could have been a person who would have found the cure for cancer or other sickness or have been someone greater?

 

Or a mass murderer, or a genocidal dictator, or the wealthy owner of a highly polluting company which will destroy a whole ecosystem and the means of life of a whole region, or a sexist man who beats up his wife, or a criminal, thief or even a druglord. We DON'T know what an unborn child will be in the future, so either choice is just as likely.

 

you're only pregnant for less than a year

 

I can't get vacations because I am a freelance worker. The day I'm not working, I'm not earning. If I don't earn, nobody is paying the rent. If I don't pay the rent, I'm going homeless. Can you please explain me how I can just take a whole year off for the sake of a child I don't want, nor can't even take care of?

Edited September 14, 2015 by DragonNighthowler

[Laryal]

So, killing a dog or an elephant is ok?

 

It surprises me how people who so vehemently defend human life can easily shrug off non human animal life as something unimportant. Abortion is not something unique to humans, by the way. Certain animal species have evolved abortion methods to safeguard the life of the female in times of scarcity or when the conditions are not favorable.

 

 

 

What?

 

First, let me point out that the term human and animal as two different things is incorrect. Human beings are a species of animals, therefore we are no different than an elephant or a dog, with the exception of the evolutionary differences that make us what we are.

 

Second, those of us (yes, I'm including myself in this) who feel angry at animal abuses also feel angry when a woman, a child, an elder or any other person (a fetus is NOT a person) is being abused.

 

An abortion is not an act of abuse. An act of abuse would be letting that child be born to suffer through extreme poverty or neglect.

 

 

 

Things are not that simple. Killing in self defense is wrong? It's killing. Killing to eat, what you do every single day, is it wrong? It's killing. Killing to alleviate the suffering of a terminally diseased person going through a terrible agony is wrong? It's killing.

 

The end is still death, the means and the reasons are also important.

 

 

 

Or a mass murderer, or a genocidal dictator, or the wealthy owner of a highly polluting company which will destroy a whole ecosystem and the means of life of a whole region, or a sexist man who beats up his wife, or a criminal, thief or even a druglord. We DON'T know what an unborn child will be in the future, so either choice is just as likely.

 

 

 

I can't get vacations because I am a freelance worker. The day I'm not working, I'm not earning. If I don't earn, nobody is paying the rent. If I don't pay the rent, I'm going homeless. Can you please explain me how I can just take a whole year off for the sake of a child I don't want, nor can't even take care of?

If it comes to saving an animal or human i would rather save the human born or unborn.Do not get me wrong i love animals i wish i had them all but if it comes down to saving something i would rather save that human than my pets.But we are not talking about that we are talking about human life here. Killing an amimal to eat is not wrong.Killing a human born or unborn is wrong.

 

I have never came from an ape if you want to believe that fine but as for me noI am not an animal.Never have been never will be. If we did come from animals then why is there not animal human mixs now?

 

There all ready are there are thousands of babies killed each day about twenty or more as i write you know from where abortion. So if the fetus is not human what is it then a dog or cat what.See a human can not have anything other than human am i correct? so if that is the case then who ever is aborting is aborting a human fetus not a cow not a pig not an ape but human.Wow what a concept human having human babies that is what is inside us when we are pregnent aweasome. So what do we abort then can you anwer that?

 

So if we humans keep aborting these innocent babies we are dooming ourselves.Why you ask who would then grow up to keep the human race alive then?

 

I know it is just one person but it gets the point across.

 

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/05/01/watch-w...nd-on-abortion/

 

I was done becouse i can not write fast becouse of my cerebral palsy you guys write to fast an when edit my messages there is like ten more aimed at my posts.This is my last post i stand where i stand.I just hope somewhere someone thinks about what is really abortion and how it does effect the human race really. So keep up your debating now but i will not answer again you all know where i stand signing off now have a great day.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Laryal

[Lady Artemis]

I haven't never came from an ape if you want to believe that fine but as for me noI am not an animal.Never have been never will be. If we did come from animals then why is there not animal human mixs now?

No one has ever claimed humans came from apes. You, yourself ARE an animal. You are a homosapien. There aren't human x other mammal hybrids because biology doesn't work that way.

[Indigo_Dragon]

I'm just saying this once and not gonna get into the minefield of the rest of the conversation. This is just my belief and just my stance.

 

I agree heartily with Sock, especially with the actual statistics of adoption likelihoods.

 

If I do not end up giving birth to a child [due to my health issues preventing me from giving them the full care they need while growing up], then I will most likely either adopt, or become part of the foster care system to help the children who are already alive and need help.

 

I would like to go through pregnancy at least one time and see what that's like for me, but ONLY when securely married to someone who has a stable financial supply to support us and a child together without me having to pitch in [again due to my health issues]. Even then, most likely I'd have to pay a nanny to help, if my health condition does not get better by that point (which is most likely unless they find a cure within my lifetime).

 

If I get pregnant before that ideal situation is met, I will abort it. To me, it is not a fully independent being, or even able to be such, until later in the third trimester. That's beyond when you can abort it legally anyways. I am not killing a life, I am just removing a growth of cells that does not have a consciousness, because I do not wish to subject it to the hardships that it would have gone through had I carried it to full term and then had to care for it in my health.

 

I refuse to add another poor broken child to the adoption system that is still messed up and rather broken down. For 's sake, gay couples are not allowed to adopt in any state yet. You are denying many couples that are more than willing to take a child into a loving home, just for hatred of their sexuality, and thus denying such children from the stability of those homes and locking them into the adoption and foster system. That is cruel. I think allowing gay couples to adopt can help make a difference. [Would it solve the mess that is currently going around? No. Can it still make a bit of a difference, at least to the children in question? Yes.]

 

To me, I am very much pro-choice. All those pro-lifers seem unusually callous about the lives of the mother and children after the birth. If they TRULY cared about those lives, they would bend their passion and anger towards solving the poverty crises, stopping the abusive families, fixing the messed up adoption/foster-care system, and TRULY allowing couples of all genders and sexualities to actually adopt and care for children, instead of shooting themselves in the foot by denying the LGBTQ people from adopting.

 

It's pretty clear where their priorities really lie - controlling the mother and forcing her to pump out babies whether she wants to or not. Denial of choice and forcing way too many children into a messed up, highly traumatic, extremely dangerous and sick situations just to appease their own sense of "hey we 'saved a life'?" You didn't save a life, as in help people to actually be PRODUCTIVE and HAPPY and HEALTHY and live up to their fullest potential. You just "saved a life" by patting yourself on the back of "one less fetus [aka clump of cells] destroyed" without regards to what happens to the "clump of cells" during all the rest of its life, that you so passionately cared for before the birth.

 

I'm pro-choice because I actually care about the lives of the mother, and whatever life the child may actually have if they are had, instead of aborted. Fewer, but much happier, psychologically, emotionally, and physically healthy kids that have stable homes, loving support systems, and grew up supported on all sides, to me is WAY more preferable to more kids that are kicked into abusive, dangerous, agonizing, starvation and poverty-ridden, traumatizing, and violent situations that could've been avoided if they had been aborted to begin with. Not every egg and sperm donor is suitable to actually BE parents - people who will love, nurture, guide, support, and care for the child through all their life. I'm all for reducing the number of abusive "parents" that just bring more harm onto children for the sad reason of the kids "being born/alive" in the first place. Letting them choose instead of forcing them to have kids, is a great big step towards that goal in my mind.

 

Yeah sorry for adding fuel to the fire here, but this is just my beliefs, my perspective, and how I see things. Hate me if you will, but I won't reply to any comments on this or in this thread.

 

Have a good day!