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I'm just saying this once and not gonna get into the minefield of the rest of the conversation. This is just my belief and just my stance.

 

I agree heartily with Sock, especially with the actual statistics of adoption likelihoods.

 

If I do not end up giving birth to a child [due to my health issues preventing me from giving them the full care they need while growing up], then I will most likely either adopt, or become part of the foster care system to help the children who are already alive and need help.

 

I would like to go through pregnancy at least one time and see what that's like for me, but ONLY when securely married to someone who has a stable financial supply to support us and a child together without me having to pitch in [again due to my health issues]. Even then, most likely I'd have to pay a nanny to help, if my health condition does not get better by that point (which is most likely unless they find a cure within my lifetime).

 

If I get pregnant before that ideal situation is met, I will abort it. To me, it is not a fully independent being, or even able to be such, until later in the third trimester. That's beyond when you can abort it legally anyways. I am not killing a life, I am just removing a growth of cells that does not have a consciousness, because I do not wish to subject it to the hardships that it would have gone through had I carried it to full term and then had to care for it in my health.

 

I refuse to add another poor broken child to the adoption system that is still messed up and rather broken down. For censorkip.gif's sake, gay couples are not allowed to adopt in any state yet. You are denying many couples that are more than willing to take a child into a loving home, just for hatred of their sexuality, and thus denying such children from the stability of those homes and locking them into the adoption and foster system. That is cruel. I think allowing gay couples to adopt can help make a difference. [Would it solve the mess that is currently going around? No. Can it still make a bit of a difference, at least to the children in question? Yes.]

 

To me, I am very much pro-choice. All those pro-lifers seem unusually callous about the lives of the mother and children after the birth. If they TRULY cared about those lives, they would bend their passion and anger towards solving the poverty crises, stopping the abusive families, fixing the messed up adoption/foster-care system, and TRULY allowing couples of all genders and sexualities to actually adopt and care for children, instead of shooting themselves in the foot by denying the LGBTQ people from adopting.

 

It's pretty clear where their priorities really lie - controlling the mother and forcing her to pump out babies whether she wants to or not. Denial of choice and forcing way too many children into a messed up, highly traumatic, extremely dangerous and sick situations just to appease their own sense of "hey we 'saved a life'?" You didn't save a life, as in help people to actually be PRODUCTIVE and HAPPY and HEALTHY and live up to their fullest potential. You just "saved a life" by patting yourself on the back of "one less fetus [aka clump of cells] destroyed" without regards to what happens to the "clump of cells" during all the rest of its life, that you so passionately cared for before the birth.

 

I'm pro-choice because I actually care about the lives of the mother, and whatever life the child may actually have if they are had, instead of aborted. Fewer, but much happier, psychologically, emotionally, and physically healthy kids that have stable homes, loving support systems, and grew up supported on all sides, to me is WAY more preferable to more kids that are kicked into abusive, dangerous, agonizing, starvation and poverty-ridden, traumatizing, and violent situations that could've been avoided if they had been aborted to begin with. Not every egg and sperm donor is suitable to actually BE parents - people who will love, nurture, guide, support, and care for the child through all their life. I'm all for reducing the number of abusive "parents" that just bring more harm onto children for the sad reason of the kids "being born/alive" in the first place. Letting them choose instead of forcing them to have kids, is a great big step towards that goal in my mind.

 

Yeah sorry for adding fuel to the fire here, but this is just my beliefs, my perspective, and how I see things. Hate me if you will, but I won't reply to any comments on this or in this thread.

 

Have a good day!

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No one has ever claimed humans came from apes. You, yourself ARE an animal. You are a homosapien. There aren't human x other mammal hybrids because biology doesn't work that way.

(off topic but iirc, we have similar genetic data, but our ancestry line branched off a while ago from primates; on phone so i can't find a date).

 

So if we humans keep aborting these innocent babies we are dooming ourselves.Why you ask who would then grow up to keep the human race alive then?

i'd like to reiterate that i think that having an abortion should be a choice, and besides, not every single pregnant person is going to abort their child if abortion is kept legal. there are people that would like to be parents too.

Edited by XiaoChibi

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Well, they say they're not coming back, but for posterity: we're more at risk of dying out because of human-accelerated climate change than abortions taking place. There are over 7 billion people on earth and not every single pregnant person is going to abort their pregnancy - there are plenty of people who have kids.

 

Also, just because humans are animals doesn't mean all animals are the same. We don't have human-other animal mixes for the same reason we don't have bat-dog mixes: there are too many genetic and physiological differences for it to work. Also, "animal" as a category includes thousands and thousands of creatures, from the very simple tunicate to the very complex human - even insects are animals.

 

All those pro-lifers seem unusually callous about the lives of the mother and children after the birth. If they TRULY cared about those lives, they would bend their passion and anger towards solving the poverty crises, stopping the abusive families, fixing the messed up adoption/foster-care system, and TRULY allowing couples of all genders and sexualities to actually adopt and care for children, instead of shooting themselves in the foot by denying the LGBTQ people from adopting.

 

I don't like the term "pro-life" because it's actually a misnomer - there is no "pro-death" group to oppose a pro-life group, and calling themselves "pro-life" casts an unfair shadow on the pro-choice side (because we're not pro-death). The true and accurate term for 'pro-life' as it refers to the abortion debate is actually 'anti-choice' or 'pro-forced-birth' because that is what their cause really is, at least in my eyes and the way I understand it. (Not singling you out! I just don't like the term at all, and wanted to say this.)

 

I agree 100% with the rest of your post.

Edited by Infinis

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There all ready are there are thousands of babies killed each day about twenty or more as i write you know from where abortion.

Since you are so against abortion, I thought you'd like to know some tried and true ways of lowering abortion rates (let's have a constructive discussion - it is hard to debate against half a dozen users):

  • Extensive and correct sex education (ie not abstinence-only and including education on consent)
  • Available and affordable birth control and contraception
  • Access to family planning services/counseling
  • Religious leaders supporting the above three points
  • Available and affordable healthcare (pregnancy is expensive)
  • Easier access to sterilization for people who do not want children
  • Welfare programs and financial assistance for childcare (including paid maternity/paternity leave)
  • Better laws against domestic violence so victims and survivors can find justice and escape abusers
  • Legalized and available abortion procedures (because nothing is 100% especially not outlawing abortion)
Possible language in link comments

https://www.guttmacher.org/media/presskits/...tsandfacts.html

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/2...abortion-rates/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_pol...abstinence.html

http://thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/thoug...rom-an-abortion

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7971545

http://www.payvand.com/news/09/apr/1183.html

http://www.overpopulation.org/Iran%20Popline%20Jun98.html

 

These are all measures I support, and I hope that you do, too. While I believe choice is a vital part of my life, I also believe that together we can lower abortion rates. =)

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Hey Laryal, if abortion was illegal, what should be done with the women who have illegal abortions?

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They are alive, so therefore it would also be murder.

Then what would your solution be?

 

(Older post, I know, but with everything else going on I didn't realize that I'd forgotten to respond.)

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Hey Laryal, if abortion was illegal, what should be done with the women who have illegal abortions?

The thing is...

 

Often times, the illegal abortions THEMSELVES were a risk of life.

 

At least, as I understand it.

 

I don't know how many women died from complications from them, off of hand, BUT it must have happened often enough to make a compelling argument for legalizing it. Just saying. WHICH is why I don't QUITE understand the opposition to requirements for 'admission rights' at hospitals for abortion clinics. I THOUGHT the big argument for legalizing it was so that it would be regulated to make it safer? ADMITTEDLY I am not QUITE certain I understand what is being referred to, but still.( I had the idea that it was referring to cases where the woman was in need of help the clinic she was at couldn't give...) I mean, I wouldn't have one myself, I think, but IF I chose to, I would want to know that I'd be able to get the help I need IF something went terribly wrong... which, let's be honest, is a legitimate possibility with ANY medical procedure. (AND If there were a life threatening medical emergency, I am not sure that most of those clinics are set up to deal with it... though I could be wrong there.) Admittedly, I don't know how often a life threatening complication happens in cases of abortions, but still.

 

I know there was talk in my state about a requirement of that kind, and some people were VEHEMENTLY opposed to it.

Can someone please explain the reasoning for opposing that particular requirement? I personally don't see the harm.

Edited by Silverswift

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The thing is...

 

Often times, the illegal abortions THEMSELVES were a risk of life.

 

At least, as I understand it.

 

I don't know how many women died from complications from them, off of hand, BUT it must have happened often enough to make a compelling argument for legalizing it. Just saying. WHICH is why I don't QUITE understand the opposition to requirements for 'admission rights' at hospitals for abortion clinics. I THOUGHT the big argument for legalizing it was so that it would be regulated to make it safer? ADMITTEDLY I am not QUITE certain I understand what is being referred to, but still.( ihad the idea that it was referring to cases where the woman as in need of help the clinic she was at couldn't give...) I mean, I wouldn't have one myself, I think, but IF I chose to, I would want to know that I'd be able to get the help I need IF something went terribly wrong... which, let's be honest, is a legitimate possibility with ANY medical procedure. (AND If there were a life threatening medical emergency, I am not sure that most of those clinics are set up to deal with it... though I could be wrong there.) Admittedly, I don't know how often a life threatening complication happens in cases of abortions, but still.

 

I know there was talk in my state about a requirement of that kind, and some people were VEHEMENTLY opposed to it.

Can someone please explain the reasoning for opposing that particular requirement? I personally don't see the harm.

Oh I know illegal ones are ridden with nasty risks.

I agree with everything you stated silver. Quite a good way to put it.

But to my statement, they say abortion should be illegal because it's murder. And murder, the price for murdering a person is death penalty or life in prison. Which many prolifers support capital punishment ironically.

Not sure how to reply to those prolifers that say life in prison should happen. Though I could retort to the capital punishment claim by throwing it out there, that's not very 'pro life' of them/why teach people that killing is wrong by killing people? Doesn't that contradict what they want? Life for humans?

(Though yes I'm aware they just want to have the woman pop out the thing and then just who cares what happens from then. And yes, many prolifers also wish those that got abortions death or similar)

If the person in question says that neither of these options should be used, and say something like "just pray for them", than doesn't that mean essentially that it doesn't matter if abortion is illegal or not since their only solution is to do nothing?

 

Kind of like this exchange how it goes in a circle. (I tried something like this, similar results)

Q: Abortion should be illegal, did you say?

A: Yes, it should be illegal because it’s killing a human person.

Q: And what should happen to women who have illegal abortions?

A: … Just pray for them. I don’t think they should have to spend time in jail or anything.

Q: So if it’s illegal, you think there should be no punishment under the law?

A: No, I don’t think they should be punished, because the life has been taken. The crime has been done.

Q: [but isn't] that’s true with murder, too? Isn’t there a punishment for murder?

A: Yes, there’s a punishment for murder because that’s taking a life.

Q: So why shouldn’t there be a punishment for a woman who has an illegal abortion?

A: Oh… as the other [person] said, it’s kind of between her and God. She will get her punishment in the end.

Q: So why should it be illegal?

A: Because it’s the taking of a life.

 

 

 

*for clarity I mean most prolifers as proforcedbirthers. I've seen many that say they are prolife, but keep the life of the mother in mind as well. I see this as truly prolife.

Edited by BlightWyvern

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Oh I know illegal ones are ridden with nasty risks.

I agree with everything you stated silver. Quite a good way to put it.

But to my statement, they say abortion should be illegal because it's murder. And murder, the price for murdering a person is death penalty or life in prison. Which many prolifers support capital punishment ironically.

Not sure how to reply to those prolifers that say life in prison should happen. Though I could retort to the capital punishment claim by throwing it out there, that's not very 'pro life' of them/why teach people that killing is wrong by killing people? Doesn't that contradict what they want? Life for humans?

(Though yes I'm aware they just want to have the woman pop out the thing and then just who cares what happens from then. And yes, many prolifers also wish those that got abortions death or similar)

If the person in question says that neither of these options should be used, and say something like "just pray for them", than doesn't that mean essentially that it doesn't matter if abortion is illegal or not since their only solution is to do nothing?

 

Kind of like this exchange how it goes in a circle. (I tried something like this, similar results)

Q: Abortion should be illegal, did you say?

A: Yes, it should be illegal because it’s killing a human person.

Q: And what should happen to women who have illegal abortions?

A: … Just pray for them. I don’t think they should have to spend time in jail or anything.

Q: So if it’s illegal, you think there should be no punishment under the law?

A: No, I don’t think they should be punished, because the life has been taken. The crime has been done.

Q: [but isn't] that’s true with murder, too? Isn’t there a punishment for murder?

A: Yes, there’s a punishment for murder because that’s taking a life.

Q: So why shouldn’t there be a punishment for a woman who has an illegal abortion?

A: Oh… as the other [person] said, it’s kind of between her and God. She will get her punishment in the end.

Q: So why should it be illegal?

A: Because it’s the taking of a life.

 

 

 

*for clarity I mean most prolifers as proforcedbirthers. I've seen many that say they are prolife, but keep the life of the mother in mind as well. I see this as truly prolife.

I guess in general I would consider myself what YOU refer to as pro-life.

 

I may not LIKE abortions, but I realize people may have a variety of reasons for having them. In cases where carrying the pregnancy to term would the threaten the mother's life at the very LEAST, I would say there ought to be options.(AFTER all, if mom dies before the pregnancy is to term, the child dies anyway.)

 

As of cases of rape, I will say this.

I have UBER respect for women who choose to go through with a pregnancy that was conceived that way and love and raise that child regardless. I ALSO understand that not everyone would be able to do that.

 

AS for the capital punishment thing... I think there is more to it than making an example of the criminal in question ( THOUGH that is certainly part of it) I think the argument beyond THAT is that there are some people who are SO corrupted that, basically, that they cannot be 'fixed' and that they ONLY way to ensure that they do not repeat the offense is the death penalty. ( Keeping in mind that, in the minds of those that support the death penalty, the one being killed is a convicted criminal)

 

A bit off topic, though.

 

My PREFERENCE, I think would be more and better use of birth control so as to lessen the NEED for abortions. Because here is the thing. I sort of agree with the person who said that , ideally, men and women would keep their legs closed til marriage. That being said, I am ALSO aware that human nature will be human nature and in many cases that won't happen. People make their own choices, and sometimes they make choices they themselves regret later.

 

Unfortunately, the issue is a LOT more complicated than some people like to make it sound.

Edited by Silverswift

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I think we can all agree on the first steps are what sock posted

Extensive and correct sex education (ie not abstinence-only and including education on consent)

Available and affordable birth control and contraception

Access to family planning services/counseling

Religious leaders supporting the above three points

Available and affordable healthcare (pregnancy is expensive)

Easier access to sterilization for people who do not want children

Welfare programs and financial assistance for childcare (including paid maternity/paternity leave)

Better laws against domestic violence so victims and survivors can find justice and escape abusers

Legalized and available abortion procedures (because nothing is 100% especially not outlawing abortion)

Where I live my sex ed taught abstinence only, had said " birth-control fails more often than the media says ". Oh yeah, lots of 'media propaganda' like how sex is overly glorified and that's why so many teens get pregnant, and then did the chewed gum metaphor (which I find offensive tbh).

Here where I live you need to be 30+ with two kids before you can get sterilized.

 

In my eyes I see the pro sides like this;

Proforcedbirth Abortion of any kind is wrong. If you support it youre a horrible person/stay away from my kids/need to be sterilized so you don't have any since you think this way

 

Pro life. Takes into account the mothers well being as well as the development of the fetus

 

Prochoice similar to my prolife definition, understands the choice is the woman's alone

 

Pro abortion. EVERYONE NEEDS TO ABORT! YOU get and abortion, AND YOUUU get one, abortions for everyone!!!!

 

I agree on not LIKING abortion, the concept, but like you said, people have reasons for it.

I enjoyed how you explained it Silver, much better than I could have happy.gif

Edited by BlightWyvern

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I have never came from an ape

 

No, you just come from a common ancestor.

 

You know the interesting thing about science? It doesn't care if you "believe in it" or not. It's not going to be less true. So, lets see, you give birth to your children, just like monkeys do, you shriek, like monkeys do, you feed on vegetables and meat, like monkeys do, your internal organs are exactly the same as every other omnivorous mammal out there, you poo and pee, like every other mammal, you reproduce sexually and breastfeed your children, like monkeys and other mammals, you live in societies, like monkeys and wolves. You DIE, like every other animal, and yet you're not an animal.

 

Please, where is the logic in that?

 

I am not an animal

 

Yes you are. This is not about beliefs, this is about genetics and science, and biology. You share 99,9% of your genetic code with chimpanzees. You HAVE a genetic code. Like dogs, like elephants, like monkeys. You ARE an animal.

 

If we did come from animals then why is there not animal human mixs now?

 

If dogs are animals, why are there no dog snake mixes?

 

NO, we don't come from animals. We ARE animals. We are an animal species named homo sapiens sapiens, just like a dog is a canis lupus familiaris and a coyote is a canis latrans. We are part of the animal world. We are nothing but another of the millions of species that evolved into this planet, yet we all originate from the very same primordial cluster of cells. In the early stages of birth, a dog embryo, a dolphin embryo, a human embryo are indistinguishable from one another. How are we that special when most of what we are we share with other species?

 

So if the fetus is not human

 

Who said the fetus is not human? Do not put in my mouth things I haven't said.

 

See a human can not have anything other than human am i correct?

 

And a dog can't have anything other than a dog, see? He's not an animal, he's special. So is a cow which can only birth a cow, and so is an elephant which can only birth elephants.

 

Really, that's not even an argument. Obviously each animal specie will birth a member of their own specie, so how can you even use that as an argument that we're "different" when it is another proof of how similar we are to every other specie?

 

So what do we abort then can you anwer that?

 

Yes, you're aborting a human being. So? It doesn't make it any different. Life is NOT the most precious thing. Look up at Sock's text about adoptions and how many kids end up having problems because of that. Life is not worth it if there is not a bit of welfare and happiness, and I'd rather abort than make a child suffer through a broken system, through a broken climate and through the problems of a highly overpopulated world which is on the brim of another world war.

 

Why you ask who would then grow up to keep the human race alive then?

 

We are 7 billion people. We are NOT endangered. Iberian lynx is endangered. The amur leopard is endangered. We are OVERPOPULATED, and if we keep birthing like rabbits, things are going to get very ugly for all of us. We should actually reduce our population by about 2/3 if we want to ensure our species' survival.

Edited by DragonNighthowler

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*claps for DragonNighthowler's post* So wonderfully worded. I couldn't have said it better.

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I think we can all agree on the first steps are what sock posted

 

Where I live my sex ed taught abstinence only, had said " birth-control fails more often than the media says ". Oh yeah, lots of 'media propaganda' like how sex is overly glorified and that's why so many teens get pregnant, and then did the chewed gum metaphor (which I find offensive tbh).

Here where I live you need to be 30+ with two kids before you can get sterilized.

 

In my eyes I see the pro sides like this;

Proforcedbirth    Abortion of any kind is wrong. If you support it youre a horrible person/stay away from my kids/need to be sterilized so you don't have any since you think this way

 

Pro life. Takes into account the mothers well being as well as the development of the fetus

 

Prochoice   similar to my prolife definition, understands the choice is the woman's alone

 

Pro abortion.    EVERYONE NEEDS TO ABORT! YOU get and abortion, AND YOUUU get one, abortions for everyone!!!! 

 

I agree on not LIKING abortion, the concept, but like you said, people have reasons for it.

I enjoyed how you explained it Silver, much better than I could have happy.gif

The thing IS, that in some ways there is some truth in it.

 

For one thing, BC does fail, sometimes.

 

It would be NICE if there was an absolutely foolproof method, BUT so far there is not.

(Using it is still a far cry better than not, though.)

 

I also DO feel like many times the media DO sort of glamorize sex and make it out to be the be-all,end-all of human existence. ( Don't get me wrong, I DO understand that it is an important aspect of life for many people.) It seems like MANY times they portray it as something you are missing out on if you aren't doing...without portraying the possible downsides of it. Let's face it, sex is sort of a responsibility,it isn't all 'fun and good times', like it is sometimes made out to be. Does this mean I believe that every teen who see a sex-scene in a movie is going to be immediately driven to run out and have sex? No,not necessarily; but I DO feel like WAY to many people don't think STDs or pregnancy can happen to them... and thus don't take proper precautions. When added to an attitude that says 'Do whatever feels good,'That can lead to problems. Perhaps this is something that better education on the subject would help?

 

I'd say I think I like your categories, btw, BlightWyvern.

Edited by Silverswift

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Fetus are not humans and it isn't murder if you abort them. I will never see anything wrong with abortion.

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No, you just come from a common ancestor.

 

You know the interesting thing about science? It doesn't care if you "believe in it" or not. It's not going to be less true. So, lets see, you give birth to your children, just like monkeys do, you shriek, like monkeys do, you feed on vegetables and meat, like monkeys do, your internal organs are exactly the same as every other omnivorous mammal out there, you poo and pee, like every other mammal, you reproduce sexually and breastfeed your children, like monkeys and other mammals, you live in societies, like monkeys and wolves. You DIE, like every other animal, and yet you're not an animal.

 

Please, where is the logic in that?

 

 

 

Yes you are. This is not about beliefs, this is about genetics and science, and biology. You share 99,9% of your genetic code with chimpanzees. You HAVE a genetic code. Like dogs, like elephants, like monkeys. You ARE an animal.

 

 

 

If dogs are animals, why are there no dog snake mixes?

 

NO, we don't come from animals. We ARE animals. We are an animal species named homo sapiens sapiens, just like a dog is a canis lupus familiaris and a coyote is a canis latrans. We are part of the animal world. We are nothing but another of the millions of species that evolved into this planet, yet we all originate from the very same primordial cluster of cells. In the early stages of birth, a dog embryo, a dolphin embryo, a human embryo are indistinguishable from one another. How are we that special when most of what we are we share with other species?

 

 

 

Who said the fetus is not human? Do not put in my mouth things I haven't said.

 

 

 

And a dog can't have anything other than a dog, see? He's not an animal, he's special. So is a cow which can only birth a cow, and so is an elephant which can only birth elephants.

 

Really, that's not even an argument. Obviously each animal specie will birth a member of their own specie, so how can you even use that as an argument that we're "different" when it is another proof of how similar we are to every other specie?

 

 

 

Yes, you're aborting a human being. So? It doesn't make it any different. Life is NOT the most precious thing. Look up at Sock's text about adoptions and how many kids end up having problems because of that. Life is not worth it if there is not a bit of welfare and happiness, and I'd rather abort than make a child suffer through a broken system, through a broken climate and through the problems of a highly overpopulated world which is on the brim of another world war.

 

 

 

We are 7 billion people. We are NOT endangered. Iberian lynx is endangered. The amur leopard is endangered. We are OVERPOPULATED, and if we keep birthing like rabbits, things are going to get very ugly for all of us. We should actually reduce our population by about 2/3 if we want to ensure our species' survival.

 

 

Wrong again my ancestor never were animals at all and i am not an ANIMAL do not say that i am at all again.

 

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=63873

 

https://www.icr.org/article/3109/

 

So you all prochoice people think you are not killing a human what about those pregnent women who are murdered and everyone including the news people say that two lives were taken? So i guess you guys say that is a human unborn who had died with it's mother in those cases.But yet it is ok for a woman to kill the unborn in her body becouse it is her body.So why is it different then? Do not tell me that it is becouse the one who killed them took the woman's rights away when he killed her.You all are doing the same taking the rights of an unborn human away before it even has a chance to say i want to live. You all say it is becouse i do not want to bring in a child into this world like it is. but yet why don't you guys take those woman and help them like you asked why don't we do the same? Murder is murder and yes the woman who kills the unborn should be charged with murder as well just like those who murder born babies or older.You guys still have not given me why it is right for someone to kill someone who is not born do you have proof that it is right? i will give you proof now on what i said about the murdering of the fetus and mother.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

 

http://www.abortionfacts.com/facts/5

 

I know i said i was not going to post again but i was pulled back in lol.

Edited by Laryal

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Wrong again my ancestor never were animals at all and i am not an ANIMAL do not say that i am at all again.

You can't deny facts. The cold hard facts and truth are humans are just better developed animals.

 

 

 

First of all, humans are not the first species ever to transform the planet into a polluted hellhole. That honor belongs to cyanobacteria, blue green algae that evolved about 3.5 billion years ago and promptly began to fill the methane-based atmosphere with oxygen. You see, oxygen was a byproduct of a new energy-making system that cyano had developed . We call it photosynthesis — it's the way all plants today make energy out of light and water. At the time, however, all the life forms on the planet had evolved to live in a methane-rich environment. As the cyano filled Earth's atmosphere with oxygen, their nasty byproduct attenuated the methane, killing off pretty much all the other life forms around them. We may love our nicely oxygenated air today, but at the time it was an apocalypse. It's also evidence that humans aren't the only species ever to change the atmosphere with a new form of energy production.  Meet the molecule responsible for giving Earth all of its oxygen. We also aren't the only species to change land uses for our own ends. Beavers build dams that utterly transform the way water moves through forests, flooding some areas and parching others. Ants build massive underground cities, full of farms where they "milk" aphids for food and grow fungus to eat. So we are not the only polluting life forms, and we are not the only ones to transform landscapes with building and farming. Finally, we aren't the only species to spread all over the planet either. Humans share that honor with other invasive species, including extinct animals like trilobites, as well as living ones like rats, crows, cockroaches and more. Invasive species have roamed across the Earth since life began. Humans are about as special as dirty little rodents, scampering between walls in search of some garbage to eat

 

What about those women like myself that would rather KILL THEMSELVES than be pregnant?

 

so then, laryal since abortion is so wrong then what should be done with those that offend this?

I believe I and many others here would love to know your views on how people that abort should be held accountable yes?

Edited by BlightWyvern

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Wrong again my ancestor never were animals at all and i am not an ANIMAL do not say that i am at all again.

Wrong.

 

http://io9.com/yes-humans-are-animals-so-j...lves-1588990060

 

Animals are anything living that isn't a plant, fungus, bacteria, or otherwise. Human's basic needs are the same as other animals - we require food, water, sleep, and sex to continue living and perpetuate our species. That we are sentient and actively seek fulfillment above those needs is what sets us apart from other animals. We have a scientific classification, just like any other animal.

 

From a purely biological standpoint, even leaving evolution completely out of it, we are all animals.

 

If you want a biblical reference, here you go:

 

Ecclesiastes 3:19 - Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless.

 

We are different (as all major species of animal), but we are all still animals. Whether you choose to ignore basic biology or not is up to you. We are all animals, whether you like it or not.

 

 

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Wrong.

 

http://io9.com/yes-humans-are-animals-so-j...lves-1588990060

 

Animals are anything living that isn't a plant, fungus, bacteria, or otherwise. Human's basic needs are the same as other animals - we require food, water, sleep, and sex to continue living and perpetuate our species. That we are sentient and actively seek fulfillment above those needs is what sets us apart from other animals. We have a scientific classification, just like any other animal.

 

From a purely biological standpoint, even leaving evolution completely out of it, we are all animals.

 

If you want a biblical reference, here you go:

 

Ecclesiastes 3:19 - Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless.

 

We are different (as all major species of animal), but we are all still animals. Whether you choose to ignore basic biology or not is up to you. We are all animals, whether you like it or not.

 

Oh you want to give scripture ok then here is the bidlical account as well.? Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image. In the image of God created he him male and female created he them.

 

So now if we are the image of God then killing unborn babies is sin Thou shall not kill one of the ten comandents.If you want to be tecnical about it that is. sorry for miss spelled words but oh well. So in other words if killing is bad then aborting is killing a fetus which is against human nature.

Edited by Laryal

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If you want a biblical reference, here you go:

 

Ecclesiastes 3:19 - Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless.

 

We are different (as all major species of animal), but we are all still animals. Whether you choose to ignore basic biology or not is up to you. We are all animals, whether you like it or not.

And this one Omega

 

" I said to myself, “This happens concerning people, so that Yahweh may test them and they may see for themselves that they are like animals.For the fate of people and the fate of animals is the same.

As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same breath. People have no advantage over animals since everything is futile. All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust. Who knows if the spirit (breath) of people rises upward and the spirit (breath) of animals goes downward to the earth? I have seen that there is nothing better than for a person to enjoy his activities because that is his reward. For who can enable him to see what will happen after he dies?" -Ecclesiastes 3:18-22

 

 

 

Also this is getting off topic.

As I had asked earlier, Laryal do you think you can answer just that one question or both I put up there? K thx.

Edited by BlightWyvern

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Wrong again my ancestor never were animals at all and i am not an ANIMAL do not say that i am at all again.

 

Your ancestors were animals and you are an animal. I'll repeat it as many times as I consider because that is the truth, whether you like it or not. Denying that you are an animal is the same as denying that you are a human being, or a woman, or a mammal.

 

Why is it so hard to accept that we are part of the animal kingdom? Look at this. That's our taxonomic classification. In every single animal specie in this world their classification will place them in the animal kingdom.

 

user posted image

 

And this is a really awesome evolutionary tree, which I'm linking due to size. And hey, look at the lower right corner, humans are there.

 

http://www.oceanographerschoice.com/log/wp...t/Evo_large.gif

 

This brings me another question. If humans are not animals, what were neanderthals?

 

 

???

 

So, your only "proof" that I'm wrong is a discussion about aliens in another forum? So you believe we are aliens because that makes more sense than accepting we're just animals with high cognitive abilities?

 

So you all prochoice people think you are not killing a human

 

Putting words I didn't say in my mouth again? At least argument with something I did say. Since I'm not an science denyalist, I know very well a human fetus is, genetically a human being. It still doesn't change my thoughts.

 

So why is it different then?

 

What are you talking about? Of course it is different. Is killing in self defense and killing for pleasure the same thing? Is making love or raping the same thing? Is eutanasia or murder the same thing?

 

You can not equate a murder and a medical procedure.

 

You all are doing the same taking the rights of an unborn human

 

He doesn't have any right. He is not a person, he is genetically a human but he's not a person, and thus he can't have any rights. Anyways, why should his rights be over my own rights? Why should his life be more important than mine? Why should he live at all cost?

 

do you have proof that it is right?

 

Do you have proof that it is wrong? The world is not split into black and white. Things just are. You kill every day of your life, simply to stay alive. You are killing potential human beings every month you bleed and you're not being fertilized. Your very own existence means the misery for someone thousands of kilometers away. Life sucks, and sometimes the lesser evil might be better than the "greater good".

 

Oh you want to give scripture ok then here is the bidlical account as well.? Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image. In the image of God created he him male and female created he them.

 

So now if we are the image of God then killing unborn babies is sin Thou shall not kill one of the ten comandents.If you want to be tecnical about it that is. sorry for miss spelled words but oh well. So in other words if killing is bad then aborting is killing a fetus which is against human nature.

 

If we are the image of God, and God allows for thousands of children to die of diseases he created which are transported by mosquitoes he created, then "killing children" is just within our nature as "God's image". If we are God's image, we wouldn't do anything that is against God's nature. God could avoid all these abortions by not sending these souls in the first place to be aborted, because as omnipotent he knows what is going to happen, he can see all, and yet he keeps allowing this to happen.

 

How can a benevolent God birth such vicious specie in his own image? How can an all seeing omnipotent being keep sending souls to their deaths knowing it?

Edited by DragonNighthowler

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Why are you guys so intent on making me like those stupid animals for i was created in the image of God. You all may think you come from apes but we are not talking about that we are talking about human life here.So if someone killed a woman who was carrying an unborn child that is double murder.But on the other hand if some woman kills their unborn that is not? there are differences here that do not add up at all.We have to either say that all of this killing is murder or not murder at all then. So how do we decide which is right and which is wrong then? can we as human not have morals about us that tells us that killing of any human life is wrong?

Edited by Laryal

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Your reading comprehension needs work. You don't need to believe in evolution to understand that people are animals, from a purely biological standpoint. If you had read my post fully, you'd have caught that. Evolution has nothing to do with it.

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*confused* But the legal system already defines what kinds of killing are murder and which are not. Why would we need to let anyone out of jail when we could just read the law?

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Please like i said i am not a fast writer and sometimes i have to think twice before i get my thoughts right. So i edit allot sorry that is just me. Well i am off i may not post on here again i am not good at wording my posts right to get my thoughts striagth on here sorry again.

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How can a benevolent God birth such vicious specie in his own image? How can an all seeing omnipotent being keep sending souls to their deaths knowing it?

Don't forget how there's even a paragraph on how to preform ritual abortion. And how its OK to kill a woman with child.

Examples. Warning. Long

 

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17

(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...

And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by censorkip.gif*dom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24

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