Abortion

[Kestra15]

*confused* So you mean that nobody should have sex unless they're A. married and B. trying to have a baby?

That's what I read. Which is fine, they can keep to that idea. I won't.

[Laryal]

*confused* So you mean that nobody should have sex unless they're A. married and B. trying to have a baby?

Yep and why i say that is becouse everyone thinks having sex is showing love. No that is just lust if you truily loved someone you would wait for that speicall moment with them when you marry them. So if you want a child then you can or not. So then if they would wait like i said there wouldn't need to be unborn babies killed murdered.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Laryal

[Kith]

I don't think I'd care to forbid married couples from having sex if they didn't want children, but if that's what you personally want for you, go right ahead.

[Laryal]

I don't think I'd care to forbid married couples from having sex if they didn't want children, but if that's what you personally want for you, go right ahead.

No that is not what i mean you miss took what i ment.They can but they can also plan if they want a child.I did not mean they couldn't at all.So if they did wait the killing and murders of unborn childeren would be done away with.I know that people will not stop and they do not care if they are killing future people.but that is wat they are doing realy.

[Kith]

No that is not what i mean you miss took what i ment.They can but they can also plan if they want a child.I did not mean they couldn't at all.So if they did wait the killing and murders of unborn childeren would be done away with.I know that people will not stop and they do not care if they are killing future people.but that is wat they are doing realy.

Your solution was for people to keep their legs closed unless they were married AND wanted children... or at least, that's how you answered when I asked for clarification. So, since birth control can fail, that means married couples that want to remain childless also have to keep from having sex in order for there to be zero abortions. >..>

 

 

[Laryal]

Your solution was for people to keep their legs closed unless they were married AND wanted children... or at least, that's how you answered when I asked for clarification. So, since birth control can fail, that means married couples that want to remain childless also have to keep from having sex in order for there to be zero abortions. >..>

You are right not unless God wants them to then if they kill the unborn baby they are murdering it.Plain and simple.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Laryal

[Kestra15]

You are the tyoe of person who twists others words around or messages.So here is a thump on the old noggon of yours.If a married couple wants a child they would not adort it anyway so there ha ha ha.      

~Removed~ There are plenty of people (like myself) who would rather adopt that have children biologically.

Edited September 12, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Shienvien]

If a married couple wants a child they would not adort it anyway so there ha ha ha.

What about married couples who *definitely* don't want (more) children? Can they have sex or not?

[Laryal]

~Removed~ There are plenty of people (like myself) who would rather adopt that have children biologically.

You are right and you ningaed me or how ever you say it before i redone me message lol.

Edited September 12, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Kith]

You are the tyoe of person who twists others words around or messages.So here is a thump on the old noggon of yours.If a married couple wants a child they would not adort it anyway so there ha ha ha.      

Huh? Of course if a married couple wants a child they wouldn't abort... At least not unless there is some medical issue that requires the procedure.

 

But I'm married. And my husband and I don't want children. Some of the other married folks here don't want children, while others have had children and just don't want to have more. If there was a pregnancy, some might indeed choose to stay pregnant, but some would choose to abort.

 

So restricting sex to married people doesn't eliminate abortions.

 

 

Edit: Sorry, Kestra. Guess I shouldn't.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Kith

[Laryal]

Huh? Of course if a married couple wants a child they wouldn't abort... At least not unless there is some medical issue that requires the procedure.

 

But I'm married. And my husband and I don't want children. Some of the other married folks here don't want children, while others have had children and just don't want to have more. If there was a pregnancy, some might indeed choose to stay pregnant, but some would choose to abort.

 

So restricting sex to married people doesn't eliminate abortions.

 

 

Edit: Sorry, Kestra. Guess I shouldn't.

Sorry i see what you mean it is still killing a future person no matter how you look at it even if that person is not born yet.I was talking mostly about those who are not married.If they loved someone they would wait and i redone my other message as well.But still killing an unborn is still killing a person.The fetus is not a dog or Elephant in a human it is a human.So basicly people who abort ae killing humans that is the fact.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Laryal

[Obscure_Trash]

And a little more about pregnancy and childbirth, including changes to physiology and common complications. This as all based around the mother's health and not the child's, simply because my speciality is adult nursing. So perhaps this might help demonstrate several things for those who are saying that problematic births are rare, mental health disorders are easily treated, and the like.

Thanks for this post! I haven't read it all yet, but it's very interesting and I'm definitely going to finish going through it later. A great resource; thanks. :3

[Syaoransbear]

I'm married. If I got pregnant I'd abort the crap out of that thing.

 

Also I'm perfectly okay with killing humans who are using my body to support theirs without my consent. Talk about rude. But am I really even killing them or just cutting off their life supply?

 

But really, if you think future people are more important than people who are alive, then all women should be forcibly impregnated constantly from the moment they become fertile until they become infertile. By not becoming pregnant, you are stealing lives from people who could have been born. Right?

Edited September 12, 2015 by Syaoransbear

[sparkle10184]

You know after i open this can of worms to see what you all thought.I came up with a solution to all these problems.Men and women should keep their legs closed.That way no unborn child would be killed and if people want a child then they can try for one. but people think love is having something if someone truily loved you the way it should be they and you would wait till marriage anyway. So with that i end my case.

I'm glad you are making the sexual decision that works for you. Now please let others make the decisions that work for them

Edited September 12, 2015 by sparkle10184

[nlechoppa]

I'm married. If I got pregnant I'd abort the crap out of that thing.

 

Also I'm perfectly okay with killing humans who are using my body to support theirs without my consent. Talk about rude. But am I really even killing them or just cutting off their life supply?

 

But really, if you think future people are more important than people who are alive, then all women should be forcibly impregnated constantly from the moment they become fertile until they become infertile. By not becoming pregnant, you are stealing lives from people who could have been born. Right?

A fetus is alive.

A life is a life, no matter how you put it.

A fetus is not a "potential life' because it already is alive.

A fetus is a human being and alive, so abortion is inherently murder.

[Kith]

A fetus is alive.

A life is a life, no matter how you put it.

A fetus is not a "potential life' because it already is alive.

A fetus is a human being and alive, so abortion is inherently murder.

Then, following from one of your earlier points, is disconnecting someone in a vegetative state from life support also murder? Would you be all right prosecuting grieving families and putting doctors that follow their patients' wishes in jail?

 

 

As far as I can see, unless someone comes up with a procedure to implant the fetus into a growth chamber where it can come to full term, at no cost to the pregnant person and with a guaranteed home, there will always be the argument that the wants, needs, and rights of an already-person will trump those of a not-yet-person.

[Esko]

I've looked at this for a while, and I think it's time I share my opinion.

 

To me, abortion should be done if it has to be. While it is essentially killing someone, sometimes it's for the better. Sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes it isn't. It's just that simple.

 

Restricting sex to married couples results in people rushing marriage just to have sex. Long story short, it ain't a great idea

[nlechoppa]

Then, following from one of your earlier points, is disconnecting someone in a vegetative state from life support also murder? Would you be all right prosecuting grieving families and putting doctors that follow their patients' wishes in jail?

 

 

As far as I can see, unless someone comes up with a procedure to implant the fetus into a growth chamber where it can come to full term, at no cost to the pregnant person and with a guaranteed home, there will always be the argument that the wants, needs, and rights of an already-person will trump those of a not-yet-person.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion

[Kith]

Um, so you can equate abortion to disconnecting life support, and I cannot? That makes no sense.

 

Edit: If you take off the part about prosecution and jail, my main point still remains unchanged. Is disconnecting someone from life support murder?

Edited September 12, 2015 by Kith

[nlechoppa]

Um, so you can equate abortion to disconnecting life support, and I cannot? That makes no sense.

 

Edit: If you take off the part about prosecution and jail, my main point still remains unchanged. Is disconnecting someone from life support murder?

They are alive, so therefore it would also be murder.

[Infinis]

You are right not unless God wants them to then if they kill the unborn  baby they are murdering it.Plain and simple.

I want to point out that not everyone ascribes to Christianity or any other religion. Not everyone believes in a god or gods.

 

I'm going to be very honest here: bringing religion into this debate always screams to me of the "force it down their throats" mindset because no one who uses it ever seems to consider that there are other people out there who don't believe it. Religion, faith, and belief in deities are subjective, individual decisions and it should be kept that way. There is never any good reason for forcing your (general) beliefs on someone else.

 

If it would be unfair for me to force my beliefs on you, why is it okay for you to force your beliefs on me - especially when those beliefs affect my right to control my own body and what happens in it?

 

If you want to make decisions for your body based on your morals and beliefs, that's absolutely fine. But my body is a dictatorship and I'm the dictator, not anyone else. I don't want to be forced to adhere to someone else's beliefs when they don't jive with mine.

 

~~

 

Also, it's worth noting that abstinence doesn't work on the vast majority anymore. Saying 'keep your legs closed' is like treating a stab wound with a used bandaid. We are in a time now when we must accept the fact that people want to have sex for fun and due to that we need a multifaceted approach to sexual education - one that includes abstinence but does not teach only abstinence.

 

Every abortion begins with an unwanted pregnancy. corrected on pg 334 by shiny hazard sign The path to reducing abortion is through more widely available, cheap contraception and better sex ed - because the first and most important step to reducing abortions is to reduce unwanted pregnancies. The path to reducing abortions is not through shaming people and illegalizing it (neither will actually make abortion go away, in fact, and driving it underground is infinitely worse than keeping it safe and open).

 

Restricting sex to married couples results in people rushing marriage just to have sex. Long story short, it ain't a great idea

 

This is painfully true. People are going to have sex and we have to accept it. The sooner we accept it the sooner we can move toward better methods of reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Infinis

[HeatherMarie]

Okay, a fetus is alive. You've said that. But nearly all abortions are done *before* the fetus is old enough to live on it's own. Fetuses *need* the mother's body in order to survive. And who gave that fetus permission to do that? Certainly not me. Certainly not the woman who doesn't want (or can't have) children. It's simply not right to demand that a woman give over her body *and* her health to let some growing ball of cells that she *doesn't want* "live". In my opinion, until a fetus can live outside the womb, it should be women's needs first, not baby.

[Kith]

Every abortion begins with an unwanted pregnancy. The path to reducing abortion is through more widely available, cheap contraception and better sex ed - because the first and most important step to reducing abortions is to reduce unwanted pregnancies. The path to reducing abortions is not through shaming people and illegalizing it (neither will actually make abortion go away, in fact, and driving it underground is infinitely worse than keeping it safe and open).

Agreed. Better education will lead to people properly using means of contraception that are effective and right for them instead of urban legends or rumors.

[Esko]

This is painfully true. People are going to have sex and we have to accept it. The sooner we accept it the sooner we can move toward better methods of reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

 

Doesn't it even happen anyway?

It's fine if people want to have sex. Not my problem. People will try to get around the law anyway. Same with abortion. Even if abortion is made illegal, people will still do it anyway.

 

 

[sparkle10184]

They are alive, so therefore it would also be murder.

So off to jail they go then? Let's remember that murder is illegal, so anyone committing or assisting in murder should be prosecuted. You believe the family of the deceased should be charged with murder?