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A Someone on here... I forget who...said that there was a difference between 'pro-life' and 'pro-birth'.

This article I was reading states the difference pretty well, I think.

 

Thought I would share. CLICKY

( A fellow Christian's take on the thing that I thought was super good)

Super good indeed. Thanks for posting it.

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How many? As many as I can house and feed.

 

I may very well not be able to have children of my own. Even if I can I want to adopt. It breaks my heart when people stand outside clinics to protest but do nothing to help the women and children.

 

Thankfully my lot do and we have helped several mothers keep their babies and looked after them until they could get on their feet and get their own homes. All that's needed is a church or a (group of Christians from many different churches; like my group) that LOVES PEOPLE.

 

Abortion is always a tragedy. I look forward to the day that it is no more.

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I think abortion should stay legal.

- Not all women or couples can support a child or give it a good life

- Overpopulation

- Some anti abortionists say a baby is a life, not a choice to be made. By that logic people could say all women that can have a child must have a child, because not having a child would be depriving someone of life. It is a woman's choice to have a child, and there are unplanned pregnancies.

- If abortion is banned, then people will go for back alley abortions which are unsafe

- If abortion is banned, this will result in the unwanted children then being killed after being born.

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How many? As many as I can house and feed.

 

I may very well not be able to have children of my own. Even if I can I want to adopt. It breaks my heart when people stand outside clinics to protest but do nothing to help the women and children.

 

Thankfully my lot do and we have helped several mothers keep their babies and looked after them until they could get on their feet and get their own homes. All that's needed is a church or a (group of Christians from many different churches; like my group) that LOVES PEOPLE.

 

Abortion is always a tragedy. I look forward to the day that it is no more.

Indeed, but given those numbers - it cannot happen. I guess the perfect solution is a new method of b/c that you take when you DO want a pregnancy... that cannot work though. Abortion will always be a necessary option. I look forward to proper sex education - that is the one thing that dramatically cuts numbers and could just possibly lead to a situation where all unwanted babies could find homes. But I doubt very much that that can happen either.

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Fuzbucket this is not an attack on you. I want you to know that because I can be very opinionated and there is no tone on the internet so some communication is lost. Having said that:

 

The solution IS NOT sex education. At least not the way it is taught now.

 

People today are taught how to have sex by schools when they are still far too young. They're taught about when it's still disgusting to them and then told to go have lots of it because banging everyone with a pulse is normal and "Hey it's fine you've got contraception."

 

The problem is that NO form of contraception is 100% effective. Add to that people who use it wrong and you get a lot of unwanted pregnancies. Which is great for Planned Parenthood because Abortion = $$$$.

 

People need to be taught that sex = babies and contraception IS NOT anywhere near 100% effective. My college (last two years of UK High School) talk never mentioned that. (My High School didn't say much about it at all because they're Catholic and don't believe in contraception.)

 

It made it sound like contraception was always effective and so I could never accidentally get pregnant. NOT TRUE.

 

I've never been pregnant because I've never had sex. Problem solved. (I do want kids but not till I'm married and have a regular income.)

 

And for those who say "What about rape victims? They didn't choose it."

 

True enough. But less than 5% of abortions are because of rape and if you're the product of rape or incest are you any less human?

 

OF COURSE NOT.

 

*Gets off soapbox and walks away.*

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The solution IS NOT sex education. At least not the way it is taught now.

When many states' sex ed doesn't even have to be medically accurate, this statement is sadly true.

 

Not that I was taught how to have sex in school (the act itself was never discussed), but I can hardly speak for every district in the country, much less global education in general.

 

Sex ed needs to be at minimum medically accurate to be effective.

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I disagree, Cireth. Teaching sex ed early demystifies the concept, and also serves to inform the 'early bloomers' - the ones that mature much sooner than the others. Sex is a normal part of life, regardless of what the more prudish segment of our society would like to admit. It's part of the basic principles of the hierarchy of needs that drives every creature on earth.

 

-Proper and accurate- sex ed that includes information on pregnancy and stds and the prevention thereof, as well as instruction on the proper use of contraceptives and all the risks onvolved will most certainly help. For the record, sex ed in my school -never- stated that contraception was 100% effective, and stressed that abstinence was the only thing that was. I'm not sure where you get the idea that sex ed pushes an agenda that encourages promiscuity - that's like saying any kid who watches violent movies or plays violent video games will go out and shoot up a school.

 

Ensuring that kids have the proper tools and education to protect themselves should they - choose - to have sex =/= encouraging kids to have sex. Hormones are a powerful thing, so we might as well equip kids with what they need to help deal with them. Keeping sex as some kind of taboo subject that will be revealed to them 'when they're old enough' will only create more desire to seek out answers, and without proper education before that happens, it's essentially them playing with fire without knowing what a fire extinguisher is.

Edited by Omega Entity

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The solution IS NOT sex education. At least not the way it is taught now.

 

People today are taught how to have sex by schools when they are still far too young. They're taught about when it's still disgusting to them and then told to go have lots of it because banging everyone with a pulse is normal and "Hey it's fine you've got contraception."

Yeah, to the first part. As Kith said, it's usually not medically accurate. Not that I even got the luxury of being taught anything save for STD's and how "no STD's can be cured" and BC never works.

 

This brings up another point via sex ed, mine in HS said BC always fails, and not to believe the media because of course they want sex to seem like it's safe when in truth it's dangerous. How so? Oh because if the girl gets pregnant her life is ruined and she has to take care of the child the rest of her life, drop school, she can't go to college, while the father has to quit school and get a job to pay child support. Yeah, they said that. This was basically the entire education I had. Oh and they showed us graphic pictures while my peers and even the teacher made jokes about how "nasty these are". Thanks Florida.

Though I was probably very sheltered about sex, that's why when they said sex is over glorified by the media it confused me. I was always taught sex is disgusting and shouldn't be done unless married. ._. Now that I'm actually aware of things, now I understand. I can just go to college and see how everyone just praises each other for how much sex they have. Or if they can persuade their current gf to have sex with them.

 

That aside, from 9th grade for me I seen like 5 pregnant people, when I got to 12th I counted roughly 30. So the whole scare tactic method definitely isn't doing anything. People are going to have sex, you might as well teach them how to be safe while doing it instead of pretending people aren't going to.

 

 

What I don't understand is what they think their doing with sex ed. Because there's enough information about how something's not right that it should be addressed. Of course then they could say that "oh that's the parents job" when, at least in my case, I didn't even get that.

I got a book about what to expect when a girl hits puberty and not to be ashamed of your breast size/your period because everyone has it. And asking my mom about sex was never something I was comfortable with doing.

 

Took me til I was 20 to at least understand if people love each other than it's not disgusting. Hell, not even. As long as you're being safe when doing so and both people are consenting adults what's the problem? It's not other people's business to criticize them...be kind of creepy if you think about it.

 

So I'm sure I'm not the only one that has and education/parents that think once you're an adult you're magically endowed with the knowledge of sexual education. dry.gif

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Yeah, to the first part. As Kith said, it's usually not medically accurate. Not that I even got the luxury of being taught anything save for STD's and how "no STD's can be cured" and BC never works.

 

This brings up another point via sex ed, mine in HS said BC always fails, and not to believe the media because of course they want sex to seem like it's safe when in truth it's dangerous. How so? Oh because if the girl gets pregnant her life is ruined and she has to take care of the child the rest of her life, drop school, she can't go to college, while the father has to quit school and get a job to pay child support. Yeah, they said that. This was basically the entire education I had. Oh and they showed us graphic pictures while my peers and even the teacher made jokes about how "nasty these are". Thanks Florida.

Though I was probably very sheltered about sex, that's why when they said sex is over glorified by the media it confused me. I was always taught sex is disgusting and shouldn't be done unless married. ._.   Now that I'm actually aware of things, now I understand. I can just go to college and see how everyone just praises each other for how much sex they have. Or if they can persuade their current gf to have sex with them.   

 

That aside, from 9th grade for me I seen like 5 pregnant people, when I got to 12th I counted roughly 30. So the whole scare tactic method definitely isn't doing anything. People are going to have sex, you might as well teach them how to be safe while doing it instead of pretending people aren't going to.

 

 

What I don't understand is what they think their doing with sex ed. Because there's enough information about how something's not right that it should be addressed. Of course then they could say that "oh that's the parents job" when, at least in my case, I didn't even get that.

I got a book about what to expect when a girl hits puberty and not to be ashamed of your breast size/your period because everyone has it. And asking my mom about sex was never something I was comfortable with doing.

 

Took me til I was 20 to at least understand if people love each other than it's not disgusting. Hell, not even. As long as you're being safe when doing so and both people are consenting adults what's the problem? It's not other people's business to criticize them...be kind of creepy if you think about it.

 

So I'm sure I'm not the only one that has and education/parents that think once you're an adult you're magically endowed with the knowledge of sexual education.  dry.gif

Fortunately for me, my Mom was willing to talk about it.

 

Basically the subject came up when I was seven and mom was pregnant with my baby sister.

Being an inquisitive child, I naturally wanted to know how that happened.

 

At that point, I basically got 'the Talk'. At least, a version of it appropriate for a seven year old.

I DO get that not EVERYBODY is as fortunate in that regard, though.

Edited by Silverswift

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Which is great for Planned Parenthood because Abortion = $$$$.

 

Abortion services are ~3% of what PP provides. The rest of what they offer is a wide range of family planning and sexual health services and in some cases more general health care, as I found out from their website.

 

Regardless of your view on abortion, PP is an extremely good thing to have, especially for poor people and young people (especially who feel they cannot discuss these things with their families for any reason). It would be a great detriment to, and a huge step backward for, this country and its people not to have PP.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

All I want is the right to choice, and the right to make that choice without the interference of others (like politicians) intent on forcing their views on me. I want my right to choice respected and preserved. And that's all I want...hate my decision for all you're worth but don't take away my right to make my own choice.

 

I feel like it's important to note that no one likes abortion. It's not a decision that is made lightly - and the sad fact is that some conditions necessitate it and for other conditions it becomes the kindest decision. For me, it is a question of quality of life rather than quantity of life. I feel my time is best spent working for better quality of life.

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Cireth,

 

All-encompassing sex ed is definitely the answer, as well as access to contraceptives and abortions. Teaching sex ed isn't pushing people to go have sex, it's arming people with knowledge such as:

 

 

-The knowledge that you only have sex for yourself, when you are ready, and to not to be pressured and how to recognize when you are being pressured or manipulated.

 

-The knowledge that sex is a natural and healthy part of being human and can be used to deepen emotional bonds, and that sex isn't necessary in a relationship and that there are many other ways to be intimate.

 

-The knowledge of the consequences of sex, such as pregnancy and STDs.

 

-The knowledge of contraceptives, their success/fail rates, what to do when they fail.

 

-Debunking myths, such as "popping the cherry" among others.

 

 

The aim is to give you all the objective knowledge so you can make your own decisions. Not selectively give you knowledge to push you into making one decision over the other.

 

That's why I love PP. They give you all the information you need to make your own decision and will help you non-judgmentally. People wanting to take it away make me sick and sad sad.gif They do so much for so many people and help them plan for their lives and their general health.

Edited by High Lord November

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Planned Parenthood does so much good and helps so many people. It boggles my mind that anyone would want to take that away, and that our government is trying to defund it as a major healthcare provider. I don't understand the reasoning behind that at all.

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Fuzbucket this is not an attack on you. I want you to know that because I can be very opinionated and there is no tone on the internet so some communication is lost. Having said that:

 

The solution IS NOT sex education. At least not the way it is taught now.

 

People today are taught how to have sex by schools when they are still far too young. They're taught about when it's still disgusting to them and then told to go have lots of it because banging everyone with a pulse is normal and "Hey it's fine you've got contraception."

 

The problem is that NO form of contraception is 100% effective. Add to that people who use it wrong and you get a lot of unwanted pregnancies. Which is great for Planned Parenthood because Abortion = $$$$.

 

People need to be taught that sex = babies and contraception IS NOT anywhere near 100% effective. My college (last two years of UK High School) talk never mentioned that. (My High School didn't say much about it at all because they're Catholic and don't believe in contraception.)

 

It made it sound like contraception was always effective and so I could never accidentally get pregnant. NOT TRUE.

 

I've never been pregnant because I've never had sex. Problem solved. (I do want kids but not till I'm married and have a regular income.)

 

And for those who say "What about rape victims? They didn't choose it."

 

True enough. But less than 5% of abortions are because of rape and if you're the product of rape or incest are you any less human?

 

OF COURSE NOT.

 

*Gets off soapbox and walks away.*

Sex ed in the US is, I am told, appalling. But if you look at what is done in Scandinavia and the Netherlands - proper sex ed does not encourage early exploration. On the contrary - the age of first sexual activity is much higher in countries that take the trouble to teach relationships and consequences. I well recall when my daughters' school was about to set up a good programme and one angry mother said you just have to tell them not to do it. It took hours to explain to her that if they didn't know what it was they weren't to do, they didn't know not to...

 

Even then she was adamant that as we were a farming community, they should know it all from cows...

 

I am very opinionated on this one - no worries. Though I was a little startled the day I was informed that one of my girls had announced to her friends that "masturbation is perfectly normal, mummy said..." blink.gif but they knew all the mechanics from the age of about three - and neither of them was even into heavy groping before 18. And I never ever told them not to, just how to be safe and considerate. I answered every question that came up, though the day one of them - aged 4 at the time - wished to know how that floppy thing gets in there, I was mildly alarmed about what would come next. I answered,

 

The next question ?

 

"Oh. OK. Can I have a cookie?"

 

Kids are pretty good about what they can handle, given the chance.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Cireth:

A lot of sex ed in the United States goes, "This is what sex is, it's only for babies, abstinence is the only way." I would be completely shocked to find a sexual education class that told kids to have lots of sex, at least in the US.

Edited by sparkle10184

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If abortion is considered killing a baby

 

Then is that the same out come when a couple uses a condom???

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"If abortion is considered killing a baby; then is that the same out come when a couple uses a condom???"

 

In short, no. In long, definitely not and here's why: we're not complaining about vasectomies or condoms because both of those don't result in the termination of developing fetuses. While, yes I do agree it sounds hypocritical, my view is that life doesn't truly start until the egg is fertilized. After that I'd sincerely prefer people to not terminate, but before that there was no chance of human life to form in the first place. You have to make a conscious effort (the polite way of saying sex) to unite sperm and egg, and without that effort there is no reproduction, so it's not the same to compare condoms to abortions.

 

I hope I cleared that up a bit, but if not feel free to ask about any contradictions or tell me what you'd like me to define more absolutely.

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"If abortion is considered killing a baby; then is that the same out come when a couple uses a condom???"

 

In short, no. In long, definitely not and here's why: we're not complaining about vasectomies or condoms because both of those don't result in the termination of developing fetuses. While, yes I do agree it sounds hypocritical, my view is that life doesn't truly start until the egg is fertilized. After that I'd sincerely prefer people to not terminate, but before that there was no chance of human life to form in the first place. You have to make a conscious effort (the polite way of saying sex) to unite sperm and egg, and without that effort there is no reproduction, so it's not the same to compare condoms to abortions.

 

I hope I cleared that up a bit, but if not feel free to ask about any contradictions or tell me what you'd like me to define more absolutely.

not every egg implants. something like 40 to 65 percent of fertilizations either fail to implant or miscarry, and that doesn't include second and third trimester infant loss. (Cord wrapped, birth defects that are incompatible with life outside of the womb)

 

So in a sense it IS the same thing, I can say half of all fertilized ovum die/fail to thrive egg meets sperm does not equal pregnant. a fertilized egg successfully implanting equals pregnancy. With your view of life half of them die the moment they become alive.

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"not every egg implants. something like 40 to 65 percent of fertilizations either fail to implant or miscarry, and that doesn't include second and third trimester infant loss. (Cord wrapped, birth defects that are incompatible with life outside of the womb)

 

So in a sense it IS the same thing, I can say half of all fertilized ovum die/fail to thrive egg meets sperm does not equal pregnant. a fertilized egg successfully implanting equals pregnancy. With your view of life half of them die the moment they become alive."

 

That's a reasonable opinion too, however I don't understand your argument. Are you saying that because there's an inherently high implant fail and miscarriage rate condoms are like abortions? That was what the argument originally was over, and I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

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"not every egg implants. something like 40 to 65 percent of fertilizations either fail to implant or miscarry, and that doesn't include second and third trimester infant loss. (Cord wrapped, birth defects that are incompatible with life outside of the womb)

 

So in a sense it IS the same thing, I can say half of all fertilized ovum die/fail to thrive egg meets sperm does not equal pregnant. a fertilized egg successfully implanting equals pregnancy. With your view of life half of them die the moment they become alive."

 

That's a reasonable opinion too, however I don't understand your argument. Are you saying that because there's an inherently high implant fail and miscarriage rate condoms are like abortions? That was what the argument originally was over, and I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

YES I am saying that it's the same thing. a good portion of all these fertlizations fail before a missed period or a single postive test. I Very much support abortion- because

 

In the U.S. 397,122 children are living without permanent families in the foster care system. 101,666 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 32% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.

 

This doesn't include statistics for children given up at birth for disabilties like Downs syndrome. Aborting due to genetic conditions is perfectly fine. If people decide that they can't support/don't want to support a child with an extreme mental and phsyical handicapp and abort rather than adopt it's not being selfish at all.

 

EVERYONE wants a healthy (often white) newborn with no baggage or issues. nobody wants a 11 year old with downs and an iq of 56 about to go through puberty.

 

this is a good read to explain the problem

 

http://www.childrensrights.org/wp-content/...r_care_2006.pdf

 

Prolife is turning into pro birth. Once these kids are born because abortions are so limited /will be limited if some of the laws banning abortion after a downs dignosis are passed then the population of disabled children in foster care and the adoption system will boom.

 

do you know what happens to kids who age out? A good number of them kill themselves or are homeless. Very few manage to beat the system. They have nothing, they're nobodies no one cares. It's even worse for special needs and disabled children who age out.

 

here's a NPR about one:

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=125594259

Edited by Kiti

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it is a womans body therefore her choice. especially in horrid situations such as to disgusting to write on here, that poor woman should be given everything she needs to survive for free.

 

 

i honestly hate people who are probirth as they dont give a damn about the baby or the mother after the baby is born. i find those people to be disgusting.

 

planned parenthood is amazing.

Edited by CellyBean

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i honestly hate people who are probirth as they dont give a damn about the baby or the mother after the baby is born. i find those people to be disgusting.

 

Look, I don't mind sharing opinions. I'm not going to argue with your first or last point for that reason, but I can't let this one slide. This isn't based on any poll taken, or is factual in any way, and is just a gross generalization of a group of people. Let's try and keep this from devolving into a name calling contest.

Edited by Htt71

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To me, very simply, if the law has legal abortions, "pro-life" people aren't forced to get them, and can live happily not getting them, and people who have to make that choice can do so safely.

Whether abortions are legal or not, the sad reality is they are going to happen. It is much better for them to be legal so the procedure can be done safely.

 

I think unless you and personally going to pay for and go through every step of the pregnancy with someone, and then make sure that child is paid for and looked after the rest of their livers, you don't get a say at all. If you do, you still don't get as much of a say as the woman who actually has to carry the baby.

 

It boggles my mind that the same people that call themselves "pro-life" will also often be the ones complaining about taxes and people who can't look after their children. I'm sure not all of them are that way, but I wouldn't be surprised if an overwhelming majority were.

I've also seen stories about people who have had health complications being pressured by the people in their community have pressured them to not have an abortion, and the person has died. I also know not all of the people that call themselves pro-life are like that, but these particular ones are not pro-life, they are pro-birth, or pro-fetus.

 

I think a common misconception is that pro-choice means pro-abortion. It certainly took me a while to realise it, and when I did, it changed my view. You can be very anti-abortion but still realise that it's not your place to make that decision for everyone.

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if a woman wants/needs to get an abortion, she should be able to get an abortion. It is in no right for anyone to deny her the access to clinics.

 

One thing as well, if a woman can't get an abortion, she has to have the baby and then in turn give it up for adoption. There are simply too many children up for adoption right about now, I believe that someone made a post earlier on it.

 

PP is amazing, they give so many other things other than abortion that is necessary and I don't understand why the government may stop funding them.

 

And understand, if a woman gets an abortion, does it really affect you?

 

I'd like to hear some reasons pro-life people have against abortion.

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Hey everyone, I had a question and figured this would be a good place to ask.

 

I have an (extremely conservative, fairly pro-life) friend. He often rants about Planned Parenthood, saying that they recommend the birth control pill because it has the highest chance of user error, which leads to unwanted pregnancy and thus abortions. He believes that, when women go to PP for counselling, the counselors try to get them to lean towards abortion.

 

This all sounds really fishy to me, so I would love some information that either supports or denies this. What I feel is that PP is a great organization that provides great and necessary services. But I do believe in hearing out the other side of things (if I didn't, I would probably still be pro-life), so I'm curious to know more about this particular issue.

 

Also, as far as my opinions on abortion, I completely support it. It's extremely necessary.

 

I do think that improving sex ed would reduce the need for abortions by a lot. The US's sex ed is horrendous.

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May I very respectfully ask a question?

 

I know that some states have laws requiring abortion clinics to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals. Or at the least, there was talk of such laws. What I am wondering is... why are some pro-choice people so opposed to this idea? I mean.... whatever your stand on abortion it is a procedure that DOES have the potential to go wrong. Wasn't the big argument for legalizing it so that desperate women wouldn't be driven to get unregulated, dangerous 'back-alley' abortions where they would have little chance to get help in the event of a problem? Wasn't part of the idea that IF it is happening anyway, it may as well be out in the open so that it can be regulated and made safer?

 

Not trying to be difficult on this but an genuinely curious of the thinking there.

Edited by Silverswift

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