Abortion

[eritated]

And, again, there's the factor of ignorance. Children are no longer respecting their parents and care less about what teachers or their parents are trying to tell them about having sex. Once more, don't put your full faith in man-made things; they always fail at some point in time. Take higher precautions if you intend to have sex, whatever your mental state or level of knowledge is.

That has nothing to do with the fact that we are not being taught proper sex-ed. Wanna know what I learnt in "sex-ed"? They tried to scare us into not having sex by teaching us about STDs and pregnancy. Then they "taught" us abstinence, and forced us to write a letter to a friend convincing them that abstinence is the best option. That's it.

 

I spoke out and told the teacher that it's ridiculous that they're telling us all this, and the teacher flat-out told me that she didn't want to teach abstinence, as she knows it won't prevent kids from having sex, but she has to.

[Brite]

First things first, you are all attacking my opinions. I have simply stated what my beliefs in certain matters are and, while I get that this is a debate thread, you are still attacking me for it.

 

No attacking indicated. Sorry if you feel you are. And They hardly sounded like opinions.

 

Not trying to attack you, promise, just saying you might want to reword a bit better.

 

Yes, I do believe that suffering the 9 months is a suitable punishment for their stupidity.

 

Children are not punishments. They are humans that need love and attention like every other child. It is downright wicked to tell a child when they're born, "You're here because your mom needed to be taught a lesson"

 

 

Edited for pasting problems

Edited January 5, 2014 by GhostChilli

[ValidEmotions]

That has nothing to do with the fact that we are not being taught proper sex-ed. Wanna know what I learnt in "sex-ed"? They tried to scare us into not having sex by teaching us about STDs and pregnancy. Then they "taught" us abstinence, and forced us to write a letter to a friend convincing them that abstinence is the best option. That's it.

 

I spoke out and told the teacher that it's ridiculous that they're telling us all this, and the teacher flat-out told me that she didn't want to teach abstinence, as she knows it won't prevent kids from having sex, but she has to.

That's not the point but, fine. In your definition, what would be proper sex ed? Being taught about STD's is not for the purpose of scaring you and being taught abstinence has connections to when the Bible was still taught in public schools.

 

I've had sex ed in a few different forms. One from my parents in the form of a book called Where Did I Come From?, and others in school lectures. One lecture example mentioned jumping around from sex partner to sex partner using a piece of duct tape; it loses it's adhesiveness which was the comparison for someone's ability to form a true relationship to the individual who jumps around.

 

As I see it, sex ed should be, and is about, the consequences - good or bad - with having sex. This includes STDs, HIVs, AIDs, abstinence, and the like.

 

[[Former unedited quote from Ghost]]

 

I'm not saying that children are a punishment. I am saying that the symptoms should be experienced, that they should understand what they're actions truly caused for them in the short run. A lot of cases have the woman changing her mind and wanting the child at the end. Other cases see the child being cared for be it the father without the mother, other family members, or in a foster system (which I know to be imperfect).

Edited January 5, 2014 by Narvix

[Kith]

If a medication that won't interfere with any other medications can be found that will be safe for the fetus and affordable for the mother and the mother wants the child, by all means it should be tried. Hopefully the mother will not be allergic or otherwise have an adverse reaction. But this is not always possible.

 

Also, how will my friend not be banned from having children due to her medical condition? She physically cannot take a pregnancy to term without dying, therefore she cannot give birth. Unless you mean she's not banned from adopting and "having" children that way, in which case you are certainly correct... she is just not of an income level that is typically accepted by adoption agencies, even though they do have (just barely) the means to support a child in addition to the desire.

 

 

I have a question, and I'm not intending to judge but to clarify: you keep saying man-made birth control always has a failure rate. Are you saying there are natural substances that can be used as birth control which do not have a failure rate? If so, which one? I've seen the seeds of the Queen Anne's lace plant recommended as a natural alternative, but even the at-home "study" results did not report a 100% success rate among the participants, even those with perfect use. If there's a perfect, natural alternative, I'd be very interested in taking a look at it. Perhaps there could be a method of directing a university or company into testing it, and then it can be farmed and/or synthesized for wider distribution. ^..^

[Brite]

That's not the point but, fine. In your definition, what would be proper sex ed? Being taught about STD's is not for the purpose of scaring you and being taught abstinence has connections to when the Bible was still taught in public schools.

 

I've had sex ed in a few different forms. One from my parents in the form of a book called Where Did I Come From?, and others in school lectures. One lecture example mentioned jumping around from sex partner to sex partner using a piece of duct tape; it loses it's adhesiveness which was the comparison for someone's ability to form a true relationship to the individual who jumps around.

 

As I see it, sex ed should be, and is about, the consequences - good or bad - with having sex. This includes STDs, HIVs, AIDs, abstinence, and the like.

 

[[Former unedited quote from Ghost]]

 

I'm not saying that children are a punishment. I am saying that the symptoms should be experienced, that they should understand what they're actions truly caused for them in the short run. A lot of cases have the woman changing her mind and wanting the child at the end. Other cases see the child being cared for be it the father without the mother, other family members, or in a foster system (which I know to be imperfect).

Those are one of the worst forms of sex ed. Duct tape thing is rather...ridiculous. It sounds more like they're trying to say "Once a always a " Certainly not true

 

It's all a "scaring method" Not saying that STD's aren't real, they very much are, but there are ways to prevent that by teaching PROPER sex ed by teaching about birth control and condoms.

 

I'm not saying that children are a punishment. I am saying that the symptoms should be experienced, that they should understand what they're actions truly caused for them in the short run. A lot of cases have the woman changing her mind and wanting the child at the end. Other cases see the child being cared for be it the father without the mother, other family members, or in a foster system (which I know to be imperfect).

 

And in many other cases, the woman takes measures into her own hands when being denied an abortion and will ingest poisonous things to kill the fetus or throw themselves downstairs or other heights, and if that doesn't work, after giving birth they abandon the baby in dumpsters or kill it and dispose of it

Edited January 5, 2014 by GhostChilli

[eritated]

That's not the point but, fine. In your definition, what would be proper sex ed? Being taught about STD's is not for the purpose of scaring you and being taught abstinence has connections to when the Bible was still taught in public schools.

 

I've had sex ed in a few different forms. One from my parents in the form of a book called Where Did I Come From?, and others in school lectures. One lecture example mentioned jumping around from sex partner to sex partner using a piece of duct tape; it loses it's adhesiveness which was the comparison for someone's ability to form a true relationship to the individual who jumps around.

 

As I see it, sex ed should be, and is about, the consequences - good or bad - with having sex. This includes STDs, HIVs, AIDs, abstinence, and the like.

Being taught how to properly use various birth control methods is proper sex-ed, not just my definition. Yes, they were teaching us STDs simply to scare us.

They're still teaching abstinence to us, why does it matter where it comes from? The bible is no excuse for improper education.

 

The duct-tape thing is stupid. Simple as that. They taught us something similar, but with a candy bar.

 

Yes, that's what sex-ed should be (minus abstinence), but it's not, at least not here in the U.S.

[ValidEmotions]

Being taught how to properly use various birth control methods is proper sex-ed, not just my definition. Yes, they were teaching us STDs simply to scare us.

They're still teaching abstinence to us, why does it matter where it comes from? The bible is no excuse for improper education.

 

The duct-tape thing is stupid. Simple as that. They taught us something similar, but with a candy bar.

 

Yes, that's what sex-ed should be (minus abstinence), but it's not, at least not here in the U.S.

How can they teach the proper use of condoms or birth control? If that's the intent, then all they can really do before the classroom is read off the instruction sheet for the condoms or the directions for the pills. Besides, in the case of the pills, doctors prescribe different things for different women; no one is the same and can take the exact same thing in the same way. I've seen lectures with the proper use of a condom being taught. That still doesn't stop stupid teenagers from doing stupid things (like unsafe sex despite proper teaching), especially if under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.

 

teaching PROPER sex ed by teaching about birth control and condoms.

They do teach about condoms and birth control. There are also commercials everywhere (which is unfortunate because then children below age 10 are exposed to it when they aren't ready) but, once more, they fail because of improper use, poor manufacturing, wrong size, or not waiting the directed amount of time. I keep saying this do not put full faith in man-made things. Take higher precautions.

 

~Removed~

 

The classes I've taken did not use STD's as a scare tactic. They were information bits; plain and simple.

Edited January 6, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[BlitzDrake]

Herbal remedies for abortion or contraception? Well as a specialist in this area you have to be fully dedicated to it. You have to incessantly pump your system with the right herbs for what week you are in, you can never let your system be cleared of the material. In addition to that the various herbs that CAN induce abortion are also dangerous some are mild some can kill you. Some are recommended to take as an extract with grain alcohol, some are recommended as powder form, some as essential oils. All such have to basically have your full attention to induce an abortion. They AREN'T easy, it can be downright stressful, having to take some herbs every 30 minutes, some every 3 hours.

For herbal contraception there are HARDLY any herbs that are guaranteed for this. Some herbs that induce abortion may help but there are maybe a handful of herbs that can serve this purpose, and you have to wait about 6 weeks for it to be 99% effective.

 

Edit: Then your school was nice. Mine said BC never was effective, never brought up anything about the guys. Mine relied solely on getting STD'S for abstinence.

 

If there is any sex shaming going on here that is wrong as well. People CAN and do love their partner in every aspect and do have sex to ENJOY it. People do it as a form of bonding, not just to reproduce. Some people can and do have sex just for the enjoyment. And this is not going off saying everyone is like.

 

And EXCUSE you? Its THEIR fault for trying to kill themselves if they are denied an abortion? Ugh..this is so disgusting to think like this. If *I* was denied an abortion I *would* do just that. Ingest toxic substances or ANYTHING to end it. Why? Because I'm a lockiophobic. I cannot, nor WILL I let a parasitic mass take over MY body. MY mental state would go to hell. MY physical health would drop. MY life would be over before I had to deal with this. I would go to any alternative. So telling those "irresponsible" people that get pregnant "tough" you weren't being responsible, you spawn the thing. No. They would turn to illegal or malpractice to get it out. Just because or if the law denies them, doesn't mean they will listen to it. Yeah responsible person or not this attitude is beyond awful. You know, the clump of cells would also die if they killed themselves.

 

Is there a secret to not getting pregnant that isn't MAN MADE? Because if there is, then share this with the rest of us. There is a large group on here that would LOVE to know how.

Edited January 5, 2014 by BlightWyvern

[Aprilis]

Being taught how to properly use various birth control methods is proper sex-ed, not just my definition. Yes, they were teaching us STDs simply to scare us.

They're still teaching abstinence to us, why does it matter where it comes from? The bible is no excuse for improper education.

 

The duct-tape thing is stupid. Simple as that. They taught us something similar, but with a candy bar.

 

Yes, that's what sex-ed should be (minus abstinence), but it's not, at least not here in the U.S.

My school did it with glasses of water, with one glass being dirty water. We had the "Sex Can Wait" program as well and also watched a video featuring an abstinence spokesman recounting nothing but horror stories. What's incredibly stupid is he outright stated how much he personally loved sex and how great it was. Way to taunt your hormone driven audience with that forbidden carrot.

 

Also, after hearing about my sister's sex ed course, I can't help but wonder if it's policy for abstinence only classes to seek out a pregnant teen from the local high school and have her do the presentations.

[BlitzDrake]

Also, after hearing about my sister's sex ed course, I can't help but wonder if it's policy for abstinence only classes to seek out a pregnant teen from the local high school and have her do the presentations.

Huh...so my school isn't the only one. Yeah my school just takes the one that recently had the thing and do a presentation...not too hard really..beings in total so far our school has about 15 visibly pregnant people. :I shouldn't that say something about the sex-ed teaching? Oh, we also got "awards" for taking the class...like..plastic cards saying "abstinence is the only way to be 100% sure" or something

Edited January 5, 2014 by BlightWyvern

[Obscure_Trash]

There may be language in any of my links although I don't recall any language (except in comments sections) and they are otherwise appropriate.

 

Relying on scaring people away from sex by forcefully teaching about STIs is common and also really dangerous. For one, it doesn't teach anyone anything about sex, really. Secondly, it puts huge stigmas on people who do have STIs. People with STIs face a large amount of discrimination and it's attitudes like using them to scare people from sex that really start these attitudes. Many people may get an STI and go untreated due to these attitudes. It's dangerous and infuriating what people do with sex "education".

 

And no, sex ed is not "everywhere" even if you look for it. How many people here know about dental dams? I bet not many. Even the sex ed that is available is extremely piv heteronormative. And there are soooooooo many myths out there. Anyone who thinks that sex ed is actually easy to find if you just listen should take the job my friend did. She helped answer calls for PP. People thought they couldn't get pregnant if they had sex in the shower, sex on Sat, sex in the kitchen. People didn't even know what or where their own vagina was (part of sex ed focusing all responsibility of people with vaginas not getting pregnant but only really teaching any anatomy of men and boys - sex is always from their POV as if they're the only important ones involved). People had all kinds of nicknames for their vagina, too - penis is fine to say but people are too embarrassed to say vagina. People who tried to avoid getting pregnant by having ear sex or anal sex (even though you can still get pregnant this way). All kinds of issues. It's heartbreaking, really.

 

Pregnancy can have life long negative consequences. Here's a short list of things pregnant people can go through: http://doulaness.tumblr.com/post/54078236832

 

From: http://www.who.int/features/qa/12/en/

 

Every minute, at least one person dies from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth – that means 529 000 persons a year.

For every person who dies in childbirth, around 20 more suffer injury, infection or disease – approximately 10 million women each year.

Some one million children are left motherless each year. These children are 10 times more likely to die within two years of their mothers’ death.

99% of all maternal deaths occur in developing countries.

Maternal mortality is higher in women living in rural areas and among poorer communities.

Young adolescents face a higher risk of complications and death as a result of pregnancy than older persons.

 

From: http://beautyisinside.com/wp-content/uploa...veAbortions.jpg Here's why people have abortions:

 

25% of persons don’t believe they are mature or responsible enough to raise a child.

23% aren’t ready for another child.

19% can’t afford a child.

8% have other dependents that are relying on them.

7% don’t want to be a single parent or are having relationship problems.

4% are pursuing educational opportunities.

4% have health concerns for themselves.

3% have fetal health concerns.

 

and http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/characteristics.html

 

57% of the persons obtaining abortions experienced a potentially disruptive event within the last year, most commonly unemployment (20%), separation from a partner (16%), falling behind on rent/mortgage (14%) and/or moving multiple times (12%)

 

If anybody doesn't think that's taking responsibility, then I have no idea what your idea of responsibility is.

 

And here are some reasons people who are pregnant get abortions: http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/t...rom-an-abortion

 

Most of the persons seeking early abortion are either very young or in the late part of their reproductive life. Young people are often coerced into unwanted pregnancies by their partners, or they didn’t think or know that they could get pregnant. Some of the older persons think they couldn’t get pregnant because they were “too old.”

Half of the abortions done in the US are done because of birth control failure.

A third of persons who have abortions had a partner who sabotaged their birth control method.

 

Bolding that last one because holy crap is it terrifying and important.

 

People denied an abortion are more likely to fall into poverty (even if the child is given up for adoption just going through with pregnancy and the process of adoption is extremely expensive) - there's no paid maternity leave, it's hard to get a job when you're pregnant and even after you've had the child, plus the cost of pregnancy and adoption or child raising - and less likely to leave an abusive relationship.

 

If someone doesn't want an abortion, that's completely fine, but that doesn't give them the right to stop others from getting one. And I really hope people would judge in silence rather than out loud because judging out loud is why my friend has had her shoulder dislocated like six or so times (protecting people coming into PP from protestors). It's why so many pregnant persons were driven to Gosnell (away from protestors outside of legit clinics as well as affordability) and others like him. It's why CPC's exist. It's why so many choice advocates and doctors have been murdered. When we judge out loud and punish women for having sex or erase other identities and then punish them for having sex, it makes a society of oppression against them normative and acceptable, making behaviors described above also acceptable. :<

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[eritated]

Also, after hearing about my sister's sex ed course, I can't help but wonder if it's policy for abstinence only classes to seek out a pregnant teen from the local high school and have her do the presentations.

Mine didn't do this, but they had both a nurse AND a doctor (on different days) come in and tell us horror stories, again, just to scare us.

[HeatherMarie]

I.... just honestly can't believe what I've been reading in the last 3 pages. I really really shouldn't have even come in here, but I can't just be quiet now.

 

So I won't get a warn, I will try very hard to be factual with no finger-pointing.

 

Why do some people focus only on the younger, "uneducated", "lazy", or "stupid" women who have unwanted pregnancies?? Unwanted pregnancies, and abortions, happen in *all* age brackets.

 

It's pretty hypocritical to say that an older ("older" as in "not teenager") woman in a committed relationship who takes precautions and gets pregnant anyways is allowed to have an abortion; But a younger woman who *may not even know about protection* and gets pregnant and is *literally unable* to handle carrying the child should be "punished" for having sex.

 

Sex for pleasure is natural. Humans aren't the only ones who do it. Other mammals have also been proven to have sex solely for pleasure. Why are *we* the only ones who are supposed to be punished for it?

 

And seriously, the entire concept of being "punished" by being forced to carry a fetus to term.... That's basically saying that the CHILD is a punishment. Would *you* like to grow up and find out that you are only alive because laws/doctors/etc wanted to *punish* your mother for being irresponsible?? If nothing else, *think about the freaking child*.

 

Also, getting pregnant by accident (no matter HOW it happens) is seriously *no reason* to put the woman's life in jeopardy. That'd be like *deliberately* giving me tetanus because I accidentally stepped on a nail. No, worse then that. So the woman made a mistake, or some protection didn't work, or she *didn't know any better* because of lack of sex-ed.... And you want to give her a possible death sentence?? That's *more* then an eye for an eye.

[Brite]

Huh...so my school isn't the only one. Yeah my school just takes the one that recently had the thing and do a presentation...not too hard really..beings in total so far our school has about 15 visibly pregnant people. :I shouldn't that say something about the sex-ed teaching? Oh, we also got "awards" for taking the class...like..plastic cards saying "abstinence is the only way to be 100% sure" or something

Ha, my old highschool had like 50 VERY visible pregnant girls, and several of them I knew from elementary. Sad..

 

 

Sex for pleasure is natural. Humans aren't the only ones who do it. Other mammals have also been proven to have sex solely for pleasure. Why are *we* the only ones who are supposed to be punished for it?

 

 

 

This also goes for abortion. Many animals will self terminate. Like bears. The train wreck woman, Sarah Palin compared herself to them when she had no idea that bears can and WILL self terminate to give themselves a better chance through the winter.

Edited January 5, 2014 by GhostChilli

[brairtrainer]

@Narvix

 

1. Children should never be used for punishment. I've met several children in my life who have horrible home lives (or are ignored at home) because they were accidents. That should never ever be thrust on a child.

 

2. You say in circumstances where people take all percautions...then why not encourage and promote comprehensive sex ed (which has been statisticlly proven to result in less abortions/teen pregnancies?)

[whitebaron]

Just two statements from me:

1) rape and failed birth control make up for less than 50% of abortions. The other half is mostly naivity/stupidity

2) the best form of birth control is not having sex when the woman is fertile, which is around 1/4th of the month. It IS very easy to get no unwanted children, but it requires thinking. The problem is, in most parts, not sex ed - but being smart about what you do or not.

 

 

Our sex ed wasnt very good either, but it was better than what us,citzens seem to get. They never taught us how to use birth control, and honestly: whats the point,standards and rules there change all the time. (example: using condoms and spermicide at the same time, the recommendations change like every 5 years)

 

Just use your head. Use other forms of sex if the need is big but the day is bad. I've been having sex for longer than most of you are alive (no fuzz, not you. ), and whats the rush? There'll always be more of that available without taking big risks. (relying on condoms alone IS a big risk.)

[Brite]

Just two statements from me:

1) rape and failed birth control make up for less than 50% of abortions. The other half is mostly naivity/stupidity

2) the best form of birth control is not having sex when the woman is fertile, which is around 1/4th of the month. It IS very easy to get no unwanted children, but it requires thinking. The problem is, in most parts, not sex ed - but being smart about what you do or not.

 

 

Do you know how hard that is to precisely calculate, especially if a woman is irregular? Even if they know exactly when, doesn't mean they'll be in the mood.

[Shienvien]

2) the best form of birth control is not having sex when the woman is fertile, which is around 1/4th of the month. It IS very easy to get no unwanted children, but it requires thinking. The problem is, in most parts, not sex ed - but being smart about what you do or not.

Many women are highly irregular. What does a woman calculate and how when one time she has her periods two weeks apart and then the next time won't be for two months? Also, even if she is otherwise perfectly regular, it can change at any moment. It only takes one egg to be released and managing to plant at unexplected time to get pregnant. There is no predicting that kind of freak occurrences.

[Fuzzbucket]

How can they teach the proper use of condoms or birth control? If that's the intent, then all they can really do before the classroom is read off the instruction sheet for the condoms or the directions for the pills. Besides, in the case of the pills, doctors prescribe different things for different women; no one is the same and can take the exact same thing in the same way.

 

 

Just FYI - some GOOD sex education teaches condom use with a banana, in the first instance (and when public health in my area started this particular programme, they had to train up the teachers, and found that almost none of the MALE TEACHERS could put a condom on, as all their woman had been on the pill, and they'd never needed to know. Tells you a BUNCH about male responsibility, that.)

 

Teaching how to use the pill - you teach about how it works and what you have to do (as in take it at the same time every day, use a condom as well if you are on other meds, and so on.

 

IN the Netherlands and Scandinavia there is proper sex education, including contraception, taught from the day children start school I'm willing to bet any child from that country could give you chapter and verse. they are also taught relationship education, personal responsibility and the like. I taught my two from day one, too. ( was ready to be floored when my 3 y/o asked how that floppy thing gets in there... but she moved on to cookies after I told her !) Neither one of them ever got into unsafe or promiscuous sex. It';s the ones who are told that sex will give you AIDS, that masturbation will make you go blind and so on that have such rubbish information they are at risk. The truth will make you free is rather apt here. The day I (age 9) told my friends at school how babies are made they were all so horrified they went home and told their parents I was a liar. Their embarrassed parents had to admit that I wasn't, and then they all came back and told me the truth about Santa to get back at me.

 

I know a girl who was told that sharing cake with a boy could make you pregnant. I know teenagers who have heard from people they believe are reliable (or even read on line) that douching with coke is adequate birth control; that you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up; that you can't get pregnant on your period.

 

Have a look at this site for some of that stuff:

http://teens.webmd.com/sex-pregnancy-myths

 

There's way more like it, but my car has just broken down, so I have to go....

Edited January 6, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Kestra15]

Though this isn't abortion related it is related to the current topic: http://news.yahoo.com/life-brain-death-bod...-161202769.html

 

Pretty much a girls family has been ordered by the court to remove her from life support because she is brain dead. There are several comments about how certain processes can't maintain themselves even with machines, from our nurses and doctors here is this correct? If it is could the hospitals doctors be tried with harming the fetus of the woman we were talking about by keeping it in a body that would still decay?

Mostly true.

 

In brain death there is no higher brain function and fairly few basal functions, depending on where in the brain stem the 'death' has occurred - basically the lower down the stem, the less bodily functions that are being maintained by the body. Most of the time the body may be able to continue with the most basics of having a heartbeat, but even then it may not be able to breath effectively, let alone support any of the other more complex organs (liver, kidney, etc).

 

Someone who is brain-dead is going to be nothing more than a sack of half-functioning organs that will fail, slower or quicker it doesn't matter. There's the fact that you have a completely inert body, which will lead to a multitude of problems; pressure sores and moisture lesions that will break down first skin, then underlying tissues, down to organs and bone, and that's *before* infection. Pneumonia from stasis or ventilation will play hell with their lungs. The GI tract will start to malfunction as the body will rely first on liquid feed and then most likely TPN (so feed going directly into the person's veins). Generic risk of infection from being in hospital. Basically they will be in a constant running battle just to keep that sack of organs from failing - a battle they *will* lose.

 

And I say 'body' and 'sack of organs' because that is what a brain-dead person is; a dead body that is being (in this case perversely) left alive.

Is there anyone here who knows if a fetus whose mother was deprived of oxygen for so long she turned blue and had massive brain swelling at 14 weeks of development still has a possibility of being born healthy?

Depends on the length of down-time; there are plenty of stories of developed fetuses being delivered post-arrest without any damage, as the blood supply to a fetus is a bit more rigorous than is actually required - there would be an abundance of oxygen available that would allow the fetus to be maintained at safe saturation levels to keep everything 'ticking over' until a fresh blood supply is resupplied. On top of that remember a fetus is still developing so to an extent it may actually be able to 'regenerate' from any (minor) damage caused by oxygen starvation.

 

On the other had at 14wks the fetus is still in a crucial stage of development and so some of the damage caused may indeed be permanent and life-limiting. Without knowing the down-time I wouldn't want to make a guesstimate.

The case of being dumb mostly resides in the young teens getting themselves knocked up because of stupid choices. If you are almost 18 and know the full extent on what you are doing, then you wouldn't even be considering abortion to begin with because you have decided to claim responsibility. If you know what you are doing without claiming responsibility for your actions, then you must suffer the punishments and are therefore another version of dumb.

I wished I lived in a world as clear-cut as yours

Edited January 5, 2014 by Kestra15

[Kestra15]

I keep saying this do not put full faith in man-made things. Take higher precautions.

What are these 'higher precautions?'

[Fuzzbucket]

What are these 'higher precautions?'

I guess like that mad politician said. If you are raped, your body will not allow you to be pregnant.... I imagine there are other such Powers....

Edited January 5, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Rosedamai]

Then that is their moral fault and they must suffer those consequences, the ultimate of which being that they take their own life in the course of the action.

...you do know that if a pregnant person dies their fetus dies too?

[Fuzzbucket]

...you do know that if a pregnant person dies their fetus dies too?

Not if you live anywhere near that ghastly hospital cited above....

[sparkle10184]

Narvix, you're saying that the the child isn't a punishment but the symptoms are. But with those symptoms come a baby. Forcing a pregnancy on someone is not a suitable punishment for anything. Even if the symptoms are what you are considering the punishment, there is still the kid to worry about. Children are people and they deserve love and proper care. They shouldn't be part of a punishment for someone else.

 

And Narvix, from what I can tell you're not against abortion (or rather, sometimes against it) because you consider it murder, you're against it (again, sometimes) because the woman shouldn't have had sex? But why does that affect you in any way, shape, or form? You have no right to say who should be punished for what. If a woman wants to have sex, that's up to her. It has nothing to do with you so you shouldn't care.