Abortion

[KageSora]

Responding to KageSora

 

1-3 You act as if (horrible as it sounds) orphanages are non existent.

3 Again still the problem of it being encouraged, and thus causing this to be more of an issue.

4,6 Did you just call the human's first form a parasite? If so that is a huge insult to mankind.

5 Yes, we the high and mighty humans look down upon every living creature that doesn't think as we do and believes they are unworthy us using our ability to judge consent on them.

7-9 I agree that this is a problem, but I don't exactly preach the alternative.

9 If they should be looked on as a blessing, the. Obviously let's take the logic of throwing that blessing out the window.

...Would YOU want to grow up with a bunch of other kids knowing your parents didn't want you and that you were nothing more than an accident, a mistake? And as you got older, you had less and less chance of finding a loving family? WOULD you? In all seriousness?

 

Because, honestly? I'd rather have been aborted than lived in an orphanage--or any other sort of foster system.

 

And yes, I do call fetuses parasites. Because that's what they are. A fetus grows inside the body of another person and leeches nutrients from that person--putting their health at risk if they are not physically capable of supporting two lives. A fetus does not give back more than it takes. Therefore, it is a parasite. It's not an insult, it's a simple statement. It's not any more insulting than saying humans are mammals. It's just the way things are. ESPECIALLY if it's unwanted, in which case it can't even give back any kind of emotional fulfillment or happiness to the host.

 

It's not really so much a superiority thing (though in many regards we are superior to many animals, just as in other regards they are superior to us). It's that animals are NOT capable of giving consent in the way that humans are--it's just because of differences in how we are built, what our brains are capable of.

 

 

It is not a blessing if it is unwanted. If I were saddled with a child, it would be a curse. I cannot stand the screaming poopsacks that are babies, I don't want the hellspawn that are toddlers, and I have enough of my own issues without dealing with those of a teenager on top of it. Little children are demons, they crap up, destroy things, run around, are loud and messy... I'm one of those people who should never be allowed to raise children because I'd be terrible at it. I know this full well, and I don't want any partially because of it--and partially because I just hate them.

 

 

It's either high rate of depression (sadly) or execution. You pick.

...I'll pick being humanely put down before having any concept of happiness or depression, or even awareness of life itself over high rate of horrible depression.

 

I'd rather spare them the pain of reaching that point. But then, I'm the sort who'd be more willing to give up potential happiness to avoid the greater chance of pain. And having been in the situation where I wanted to end it all several times, I'd really rather not force other people to be in that position and making that choice.

 

 

 

I can't stress his enough... AND HAVE GROWN TO KEEP.

I don't mean, I got used to it, I mean I have grown older and done research and agree with my former opinions more than ever. Dont call me uneducated, because that isn't the topic.

You claim education on the topic. Well, here's some new information for you, countering a claim you yourself have made. Consider it more research on the matter:

 

No matter how much sugar you coat this in you are killing a forming creature that will be a human being. Fancy terminology doesn't negate the fact. Sorry to disappoint.

 

Assuming it's not stillborn or miscarried, a fetus can still become a tumor or a calcified mass, among other fates. So no, there's actually no guarantee that a pregnancy will result in a baby even if it doesn't suffer a miscarriage.

 

It's something that I didn't know right away either, though. I learned that much later, after I'd already started changing the religion-based opinion I'd been raised with. It was just a fact that helped me change my opinion even more in the end, because I realized a fetus doesn't always equal a baby.

[Kestra15]

To be honest abortion may not affect any of us directly, but we still talk about it to decide what is ethical.

And herein lies the problem; it has nothing to do with you. Why should you decide whether or not it is 'ethical'? And yes, the ' ' are intentional, because while abortion is a highly-ethical and moral issue, it is also completely individualised and subjective and decisions can only be made case-by-case. To apply a blanket opinion on an ethical subject is, in fact, unethical.

And in response to Lila:

No matter how much sugar you coat this in you are killing a forming creature that will be a human being. Fancy terminology doesn't negate the fact. Sorry to disappoint.

But that's the point, and best yet you've worded it for us; it will be. Future tense. In other words, here and now, it isn't a human being. It's no more murder than, say, an egg being slewed away during menstruation.

Well to some extent I think it's necessary, but teens ... need to seriously keep their hormones under control. Like some people say, you have all control of what goes on in your body.

Hahahah!

 

Good luck with that

 

I would prefer to teach them effective sex education than try and turn back the tide.

Something that doesn't have the capacity to feel or think doesn't really get the option of choice, in my opinion. I don't believe an acorn is an oak tree.

Dangerous territory there - what about someone in a permanent vegatative state? (Rhetorical question, not an actual challenge). Agreed that's when best interest decisions, lasting power of attorney, etc comes in, but as a stand-alone statement it's one to be careful of

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kestra15

[sparkle10184]

No matter how much sugar you coat this in you are killing a forming creature that will be a human being. Fancy terminology doesn't negate the fact. Sorry to disappoint.

Watch your wording there "Will" means it is guaranteed it will become a human being. But at the stage when most abortions happen there is no guarantee of the fetus forming into a human being.

 

 

To be honest abortion may not affect any of us directly, but we still talk about it to decide what is ethical.

The choice to abort is a very individual decision. It is not something that should be decided by anyone else. Only the woman who is actually going through the pregnancy has the right to make the choice. She is the one feeling the pain, the mental and physical side-effects of the pregnancy. Go ahead, decide whether you think it is ethical or not, but don't impose that opinion on anyone else.

[Fuzzbucket]

Htt71 - I assume you will practice total abstinence until the day you decide you want to bring forth a child ?

 

Just curious. Because if you use BC and some unfortunate woman ends up pregnant by you, and you didn't intend that - I HOPE you would not force her to carry to term. It's not your body.

 

Again I point out that my own abortion followed properly used and failed contraception. I planned not to have a child and I was very careful but the powers that be conspired against me... Abortion was the right choice for me and for that parasitical clump of cells - and for my children who came later.

 

You make your choices, and allow others to make theirs based on their own life circumstances and principles, please. And - don't have sex, OK ? It wouldn't be fair on whoever might end up unwillingly pregnant because of you.

 

I should add, by the way that I was not an "irresponsible hormone ridden teen". A LOT of abortions are needed - and I do mean needed - by adult women who - for instance - simply cannot afford to bring up another child, or something.

Edited December 30, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[diannethegeek]

When I and most others imply death to planned parenthood I believe we mean the abortion sect. I have no quarrels with those starting families.

I hate to nitpick your wording any further, since that appears to be a theme right now, but I'm from Kansas, where abortion doctors have been killed for what they do and continue to have their lives threatened in certain cities even today. I assume that you meant that you're in favor of defunding or dismantling Planned Parenthood, not that you actually condone violence against them?

 

This kind of rhetoric is one of the reasons that pro-lifers are so scary to me. While it's becoming safer to enter an abortion clinic these days, there are still places that have to provide escorts and security for their patients, bring then in and out through back doors, install cameras and shatter-proof glass, and screen their mail for threatening substances.

 

In my opinion, anyone who uses this kind of phrasing, whether they intend to do harm themselves or not, is contributing to an environment where patients and providers have to live in fear of someone overstepping the law to do violence to them or their clinic. Words and phrases like "death to planned parenthood" normalize the kind of violence seen against these clinics, patients, and providers and make it easier for those who actually will do violence to do so without fear or thought of the consequences.

 

tl;dr Be careful of how you word things. Words matter.

[Fuzzbucket]

 

This kind of rhetoric is one of the reasons that pro-lifers are so scary to me.

Pro-lifers my eye.

 

Pro lifers don't force women to carry to term and then say "your baby, deal with it." True pro-lifers would support the mother and baby for as long as needed, provide housing, education....

 

That is NOT what those who try and prevent abortions, and put a stop to Planned Parenthood and sex education and the rest do. All they do is try and punish mother AND CHILD for the sin of having sex and accidentally conceiving.

[Infinis]

'Pro-life' as a term is itself a misnomer and a gross misrepresentation of what that side actually stands for. The so-called 'pro-life' side is not actually pro-life (has anyone actually met anyone who's pro-death? Pro-choicers are not pro-death) but rather it is instead anti-choice, because that is exactly what they fight for - restrictions on the choice of a woman (or outright denying it any circumstances) to have an abortion.

 

Making abortion illegal for any or all circumstances it's done for will not make abortion go away. It will simply make it increasingly unsafe - coat hanger abortions are not myths. A woman who wants an abortion will get one, whether it's safe or not, even going so far as to intentionally harm or kill herself. Unsafe abortions are highly risky for the mother and can easily result in infections, permanent damage to the mother, and/or death of the mother.

 

Hiding from sex and pregnancy doesn't help anything. Instead of trying to force people to go through life with little or no accurate knowledge of pregnancy and sex we need to get these things out of the taboo closet and start discussing them openly. Abstinence only does not work. But proper, comprehensive sex education does. Knowledge and use of birth control options works.

 

If children are living up to the point where they are wishing they had not been born or had been aborted, then it's really significantly more humane to not give them sentient life in the first place, isn't it? It is sad to me that people would rather have hundreds of thousands of unwanted children who don't want to be alive (or with other problems) than never letting them reach that stage at all.

 

There is no magical line that defines good reasons from bad reasons to have an abortion. Any reason is a good enough reason.

[Htt71]

Before I begin:

How do we tell if someone will be depressed or suicidal before they are a human? If they were able to communicate they wanted to be aborted, by all means, do it. We can't tell though, and this is where the gray area kicks in again. You could be aborting a normal child fine with their lives. No matter how humane they are killed, they still are. Suisse is a choice made by someone with control f their body, abortion is not, it is chosen by someone making decisions for the thing in their body. Something the living thing inside cannot control.

 

Now my point:

This is just the point. I can't decide for the mother. (Not I as in pro-lifers I as an individual.) only I can decide what is ethical and hope someone is swayed by my opinions to choose possible life over a loss. I do not wish to murder abortion doctors, that's their job and their business. My business here is simply to discuss why I don't believe in their business. Now, don't twist my words when I say a possible life IS a life. A fetus, true, doesn't always become a human, however I take the side of letting it become what it's going to become. I sincerely hope I do not offend anyone here, as it seems I'm the only one who has this opinion. Feel free to respond or debate further, I'll be watching .

 

-Vinn

Edited December 30, 2013 by Htt71

[High Lord November]

Before I begin:

How do we tell if someone will be depressed or suicidal before they are a human? If they were able to communicate they wanted to be aborted, by all means, do it. We can't tell though, and this is where the gray area kicks in again. You could be aborting a normal child fine with their lives. No matter how humane they are killed, they still are. Suisse is a choice made by someone with control f their body, abortion is not, it is chosen by someone making decisions for the thing in their body. Something the living thing inside cannot control.

 

Now my point:

This is just the point. I can't decide for the mother. (Not I as in pro-lifers I as an individual.)  only I can decide what is ethical and hope someone is swayed by my opinions to choose possible life over a loss. I do not wish to murder abortion doctors, that's their job and their business. My business here is simply to discuss why I don't believe in their business. Now, don't twist my words when I say a possible life IS a life. A fetus, true, doesn't always become a human, however I take the side of letting it become what it's going to become. I sincerely hope I do not offend anyone here, as it seems I'm the only one who has this opinion. Feel free to respond or debate further, I'll be watching .

 

                                                                                        -Vinn

They aren't human yet. They don't have consciousness, they are literally a ball of growing cells. They don't know they exist. They don't have anything remotely resembling self consciousness or intelligent activity, therefore the cannot choose because all they are are cells. They are not a human being. They are a parasitic growth. All you seem to be caring about is the potential of the cells, not what it actually is. You are projecting in the future and applying that in the present, which is wrong.

 

Aborting a fetus does not equate killing a child. Aborting a fetus is removing a clump of inanimate cells. It is not the killing of a separate human being.

 

 

It's an actual, proven fact that what Planned Parenthood does, access to contraceptives, and excellent sex education drastically decreases the amount of abortions. Why? Because there are less unwanted pregnancies. Who cares if it increases the amount of sex someone has (if it even does)? Seriously, who cares? Sex is natural, fun for many people, a good way to release tension and tighten emotional bonds. Why are you condoning something that is natural and harmless and is proven to have benefits? That isn't rhetorical, I'd actually like an answer.

 

Orphanages and the adoption system are absolutely terrible. I'd encourage you to go looking back a couple of pages to find some statistics someone posted on them, they're eye-opening and disgusting.

 

What if I don't want pregnancy? Because I don't. Pregnancy is terrifying to me. What would you tell me? That, because a condom broke, I'm now stuck with nine months of hell and then later have to be forced to face the choice of throwing an unwanted child into a system where it most likely won't be adopted and will be faced with depression and greatly increased suicide rates, or being stuck with an 18 year and beyond emotional and monetary commitment that I'm not ready for and don't want? That's what you are suggesting. That is the result of the actions you want to take. You can't ignore those problems, you have to take those into account and address them, and there is no possible way you can address them being pro-birth.

 

I shouldn't have had sex? See the above paragraphs. Saying that I have to accept pregnancy as a result of sex? Uh, no I don't. That's a terrifying punishment and therefore supporting the idea that I shouldn't have sex unless I want a baby, which is supporting the idea that I shouldn't have sex, which, as I already covered, is bull.

 

If it's the "morals" you follow? Fine. Forcing those scientifically unproven and religiously inspired "morals" on me? No.

Edited December 30, 2013 by High Lord November

[Fuzzbucket]

Before I begin:

How do we tell if someone will be depressed or suicidal before they are a human? If they were able to communicate they wanted to be aborted, by all means, do it. We can't tell though, and this is where the gray area kicks in again. You could be aborting a normal child fine with their lives. No matter how humane they are killed, they still are. Suisse is a choice made by someone with control f their body, abortion is not, it is chosen by someone making decisions for the thing in their body. Something the living thing inside cannot control.

 

Now my point:

This is just the point. I can't decide for the mother. (Not I as in pro-lifers I as an individual.)  only I can decide what is ethical and hope someone is swayed by my opinions to choose possible life over a loss. I do not wish to murder abortion doctors, that's their job and their business. My business here is simply to discuss why I don't believe in their business. Now, don't twist my words when I say a possible life IS a life. A fetus, true, doesn't always become a human, however I take the side of letting it become what it's going to become. I sincerely hope I do not offend anyone here, as it seems I'm the only one who has this opinion. Feel free to respond or debate further, I'll be watching .

 

                                                                                        -Vinn

You only have the right to make choices for yourself. Not for others. Sure - ask the woman carrying your clump of cells (that's what it is at that point) not to have an abortion (but remember that it is her body and not yours) - but you have nothing to do with - for instance - me, and you know nothing of my life. How can you possibly say what would be right for me and mine. And who gave you the right to impose your ethics on me.

 

Mine are very different. I want every child born to be a wanted child. Wanted by the woman giving birth to it - not by some children's home or potentially abusive foster family... And there are one hell of a lot of those. A vanishingly small percentage of children given up by their desperate mothers are actually adopted - you've been shown the stats.

 

A potential life is not a life. If it were, every last sperm in your testicles should be preserved with the greatest of care. And don't forget to feel sorry for the couple of million that fail to make it with each ejaculation. And you'll need to prevent menstruation, too... One potential pregnancy falls over every month.

 

Good luck with THAT.

Edited December 30, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[sparkle10184]

Before I begin:

How do we tell if someone will be depressed or suicidal before they are a human? If they were able to communicate they wanted to be aborted, by all means, do it. We can't tell though, and this is where the gray area kicks in again. You could be aborting a normal child fine with their lives. No matter how humane they are killed, they still are. Suisse is a choice made by someone with control f their body, abortion is not, it is chosen by someone making decisions for the thing in their body. Something the living thing inside cannot control.

 

 

                                                                                        -Vinn

How many children do you know who are unwanted AND happy? Yes, there may be a child who is born to a mother who is forced to give birth and that child is happy and fine with being unloved and stuck in an adoption center or abused, but there probably aren't many. I believe that all children should be loved. It is not fair to child to force it to live a life of abuse and sadness.

But you are right, we don't know. But what we do know is whether or not the mother wants to go through with the pregnancy. We have no idea whether the child will be happy, or what it wants, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the information we do have.

 

and hope someone is swayed by my opinions to choose possible life over a loss.

But what if to the mother abortion is not a loss? I know, for me personally, losing a clump of cells is much less of a loss than me losing my own chance at a happy life. Why? Because, if the pregnancy is terminated, the fetus will never know what it is losing. But if a woman gave birth against her will she would have the ability to know what she was losing. She would be able to think about all the things she wanted to do and see that she was missing out on because of the unwanted child. She could be permanently crippled or have serious mental issues and be suicidal.

 

 

[Htt71]

Wow leaving for 3 hours and coming back to 4 replies.

 

I'll edit this post with some responses when I get to my computer, I'm a bit busy now with holiday cleanup.

[St. Jimmy]

It's either high rate of depression (sadly) or execution. You pick.

Speaking as someone who is actually diagnosed with clinical depression... the choice isn't always clear.

 

A few years back, I attempted suicide because I couldn't take constantly being in that low place. It was only once, but I've thought about it many times. It's an awful feeling, that even living is too much for your mental capacity to handle, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

Just out of curiosity, Htt71, what is your opinion on abortion if the pregnant person would be mentally destroyed by carrying to term?

[HeatherMarie]

Speaking as someone who is actually diagnosed with clinical depression... the choice isn't always clear.

 

A few years back, I attempted suicide because I couldn't take constantly being in that low place. It was only once, but I've thought about it many times. It's an awful feeling, that even living is too much for your mental capacity to handle, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

Just out of curiosity, Htt71, what is your opinion on abortion if the pregnant person would be mentally destroyed by carrying to term?

THIS.

 

If you've never had to live with depression, Htt71, then good for you.

 

But yunno what? At this point in my life, at 26 years old with 16 years of fighting to survive, I would GLADLY have asked my mother to abort me back then if I could have. I would GLADLY choose no existence at all over struggling to get through each day, unable to work, unable to even communicate at times, unable to feel happiness or joy. Harming myself, on suicide-watch for over a month now... unable TO LIVE. This is no life. And I wouldn't wish it on *anyone*, especially when there *is* an option to abort.

[KageSora]

Before I begin:

How do we tell if someone will be depressed or suicidal before they are a human? If they were able to communicate they wanted to be aborted, by all means, do it. We can't tell though, and this is where the gray area kicks in again. You could be aborting a normal child fine with their lives. No matter how humane they are killed, they still are. Suisse is a choice made by someone with control f their body, abortion is not, it is chosen by someone making decisions for the thing in their body. Something the living thing inside cannot control.

Let me turn that around for you:

 

How do we know a person wants to be born beforehand? If they can communicate that they want a chance at life, then by all means, give birth.

 

 

Besides--it's just that, it's living INSIDE another person. Why does that person suddenly become less of an individual than a corpse? Unless you're all for harvesting the organs of the dead even if they made it explicitly clear that they don't want to donate upon death, and you want to make it legal to grab people off the streets, strap them down, and harvest spare organs and blood and stuff from them for dying hospital patients.

 

A fetus, true, doesn't always become a human, however I take the side of letting it become what it's going to become.

Aaaaand you're back to saying "it's going to be human" when it might not.

[Lila]

A potential life is not a life. If it were, every last sperm in your testicles should be preserved with the greatest of care. And don't forget to feel sorry for the couple of million that fail to make it with each ejaculation. And you'll need to prevent menstruation, too... One potential pregnancy falls over every month.

 

Good luck with THAT.

Thank you, fuzz.

 

Regardless of what it is, it certainly should NOT take precedence over the woman carrying it.

[Shienvien]

How do we tell if someone will be depressed or suicidal before they are a human? If they were able to communicate they wanted to be aborted, by all means, do it. We can't tell though, and this is where the gray area kicks in again. You could be aborting a normal child fine with their lives.

 

A fetus is not a person, and has never been. A fetus doesn't want anything because it was never capable of thought and preferences to begin with. It isn't "fine" or "not fine" with its existence because it doesn't feel or have opinions - it is no more a separate person than my right index finger is. Abortion doesn't kill a person - abortion just prevents one from forming.

 

Besides, you discount the fact that the unwanted fetus is in a body of a very stressed woman. Assuming that the woman doesn't just end her life (about every second woman to commit suicide is pregnant), being constantly flooded with high levels of stress hormones doesn't exactly support the development of a healthy person. They would be both unwanted and have to deal with a weaker than average psyche.

 

 

And in any case: The life and wants of a person should always be more important than the life of a non-person, under all circumstances. Stating anything else is, as I see it, far more unethical than anything one could ever do to a non-person.

[Cecona]

Pretty much what everyone else is saying, when the majority of abortions are preformed the fetus is nothing but an unconscious, parasitic lump of cells. And abortions preformed after the point where the fetus is conscious is usually because it was wanted but something went wrong, like a deformity that will give it a very poor quality of life which would be very short.

 

And treating sex like it's taboo is extremely, extremely harmful as that is the main cause of unwanted pregnancies. People are going to have sex whether they know how it works or not. They do what feels right, and it makes me queasy to even think that people believe a woman should be punished by not being able to get an abortion if she desires one. What about the guy, how would he be punished? Or is it okay for guys to have sex?

 

But.... honestly the thing that gets me the most is how you are just fine with severe depression and suicide. Obviously you must not have personally been effected by suicide if that is how you truly feel. I lost possibly the most important person in my life to suicide and it effects me even after 4 years. How can you possibly think it's better or even okay to force a child to go through the torture that is being unwanted and unloved by their mother and being abused and thrown about in the foster care system to the point they are so depressed they see suicide as the only viable answer?

 

One thing an ex of mine told me is that children that have been abused are very likely to abuse others like they had been. And foster care doesn't even care to separate them to keep any of the children safe, and it becomes a huge vicious cycle. My ex's family was a good foster family and a lot of children they took in had been neglected and abused to a point they were mentally damaged from it (not emotional or psychological abuse, but physical abuse to the soft baby head). It's not just babies willingly surrendered that are in the foster system, it also includes children that have been taken from their parents because they were abusive and used drugs and possibly have untreated mental issues. Maybe you need to hear some actual stories instead of just statistics.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Cecona

[hazeh]

Just wanted to chime in--

An abortion is not preformed to kill the fetus. That is not the intent of the procedure, which is what most anti-abortion people seem to be thinking it is. It isn't. An abortion is a procedure done to remove a fetus, and that's it. It's not done to murder a fetus or rip it to shreds. If the fetus dies because of the removal, that is the consequence of it, not the purpose.

The mother has full jurisdiction to decide if something gets to live in her body or not. Whether or not it survives should not be a reason to withhold that control from her, because NOTHING in the world has the power to say what can and what cannot use her own body without her consent. That is the basic line. Sure, it is sad if something perishes because it cannot receive the proper sustenance it requires, but you can't just make laws restricting someone's control over their own body just because something else requires it.

 

I've heard/seen a lot of arguments where anti-abortion protestors go, "But it's not the mother's body to decide on!"

Well, sure, we can put it that way. But in that same vein, the fetus does not have control or jurisdiction on the mother's body just because it needs it. So the mother can do what she wants her body, including remove something-- including another person, if you see it that way-- from her own body if she so desires to have it removed.

[edwardelricfreak]

Well to some extent I think it's necessary, but teens (ENEMY RADICAL OPINION INBOUND!) need to seriously keep their hormones under control. Like some people say, you have all control of what goes on in your body. This is right, so why should the fetus suffer because you made a stupid mistake that you can't handle the consequences of. Also, giving teens all his planned parenthood and free birth control is ENCOURAGING, hell, practically welcoming them to have sex, because they suffer no consequences whatsoever. What is happening to our generation!?!?

I can pretty much disregard the rest of what you're saying, as many have said the same things before. However, I take EXTREME offense to this right here, and quite personally, too. I'm not normally one to be offended, but this kind of ignorance I will NOT stand for.

 

What the SO wrong with sex? Tell me that, right now. I am sexually active. I'm on the pill PLUS he uses condoms, JUST so I DON'T get pregnant and have to even deal with abortion or keeping it or adoption. I'm not ready for a child. I don't have the money, I'm not even NEARLY emotionally ready, and I'm just barely starting to learn how to live on my own. How dare you suggest that if the BC fails that I have to put my life on hold and SUFFER severely, financially, emotionally, mentally, AND physically, just because "I can't handle the consequences" or keep my "hormones under control".

 

AMAZINGLY, you can't very easily control your hormones without outside influence, including, but not limited to, certain foods (in which the hormone change is pitifully minimal at best) and medications, like birth control pills.

 

I didn't start having sex because I couldn't keep my hormones under control, and I CERTAINLY didn't sleep around with just anyone. I wanted the sex to be special, but the whole "waiting for marriage" crap is just that: crap. It can work, but it's extremely ineffective and is one, if not the, worst forms of birth control. I had it because I love my boyfriend and want to be able to express my love in as many ways I can. It's, shockingly, a VERY strong bonding method, due to how incredibly physically close you become. Why should I deprive my relationship of that kind of bonding? I don't want to even get engaged until I'm at LEAST 25, have been in a relationship for a SOLID 2 years, knew the person for a few months before even starting the relationship, and I have a steady income, car, and my own home. I'm going to put bonding with someone I love on hold for that long.

 

The main reason why there are so many teen pregnancies is because they are sexually ignorant. Do you know what I was taught in school about sex? Girls and boys were in separate rooms and learned about puberty during 5th grade. We didn't have anything else until 7th or 8th grade, where students could actually get parent permission, SIGNED on a piece of paper, that EXCUSED them from the sex ed class where we barely even talked about sex anyway. We learned about STDs, briefly went over condoms, and then all that was preached was abstinence and we had little cards to sign saying we would remain abstinent. "Shockingly", the other students in my class tore up their cards and/or signed fake names. I think the last bit of sex ed was in health class, where our teacher awkwardly went over the genitalia, some more STDs, fetal development, and that was about it. I think the sex ed segments lasted anywhere from a day to MAYBE a week or two at most.

 

I learned PROPER sex ed from my church. It's a Unitarian Universalist church specifically. The class was called OWL standing for "Our Whole Lives" and went in depth about puberty, the genitalia, orgasms, the different types of sex, all different kinds of STDs and their types and cures if any, all the different kinds of birth control (including many I didn't even know existed!), PLUS other things like relationships (not just romantic but even familial ones), the differences between sex and gender, and even about the different forms of gender and sexual preferences. I'm pretty sure I even learned other things too but I learned so much I can't even remember it all at the moment to list it. I took two classes, one during 7th grade that lasted for the whole fall semester, and one during my senior year which extended on what I learned and also lasted for a whole semester.

 

I LOVED my OWL class. I strongly wish for it to be taught nationwide. It made me feel comfortable about sex and not awkward about any of it. I used to feel ashamed and awkward and weird but after that class I just rolled my eyes at the idiots giggling in the sex ed classes at my schools and carried on knowing that they were just ignorant and had parents who stifled their learning experience.

 

I'm proud that I'm not stupid and ignorant about sex. I'm proud to say I've had it, it's consensual, and it's with someone I care deeply for. I'm not ashamed of it at all. I used to be in the crowd that giggled about genitalia and hid my pads and tried not to let anyone see that, oh no, I was going through puberty and menstruating, the horror! /sarcasm

 

Sex isn't a big deal and is NOT the issue. Why there's a big fuss about it, I don't know. Using this whole thing with people, especially teens, where they SHOULDN'T EVER have sex before marriage is the worst possible thing. I'd much rather people enjoy their lives and sex lives while being safe and not ending up with an unwanted child that will get dumped off somewhere or poorly raised because the parents are still children themselves.

Edited December 31, 2013 by edwardelricfreak

[Fuzzbucket]

Way to go edwardelricfreak. Sex ed (from KINDERGARTEN age, please !) and easily available contraception are THE way to go. In countries where you have both (the Netherlands, to name but one) abortions are way down - but so is teenage sexual activity... Do the logic thing here ! In countries like the US where some people are trying to stamp out sex ed in case knowing how babies happen makes you decide to have sex at the age of 10, everything is going the other way.

 

And yes, it's true - suicidally depressed mothers very often give birth to babies who are ALREADY headed straight for mental health issues. It is a genetic thing in part (I - a depressive - gave birth - happily and enjoying it all with a planned child that time - to a depressive - the genes were there and they got her.)

 

And if a woman is deeply unhappy and disturbed in pregnancy, the chemicals of being that way that are flowing around her body can very easily get into the brain of the foetus, and damage it. That child, once born - will very likely develop into an unhappy person. I guess that's OK, yeah ? It is better to be alive and miserable than not be born at all ?

 

But all this crap about teens - what about the huge number of married women who have abortions - because they NEED to ? Aren't married people allowed to have sex for pleasure and bonding, either ?

Edited December 31, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Lila]

edwardelric pretty much nailed it. Sex is sex, and a child should not be a punishment for failed BC or just plain ignorance.

 

Also, I'm curious as to why it's okay to perform an abortion on a woman who was raped. A fetus is still dying. A fetus that had no say in the matter. So, in anti-choice's eyes, would that not still be murder? Or are we just appealing to the masses in saying, "You only have control of your own body if someone else did this to you, but as long as you don't have sex, it shouldn't be a problem."

 

That makes sex an awfully scary thing, to say that the only freedom you have is if you were raped. That's disgusting and shouldn't even merit discussion; you should ALWAYS have the choice to remove something from your body that you DO NOT WANT.

[Syaoransbear]

I think when people say that aborting a child conceived of rape is okay, they are believing that consenting to sex is consenting to pregnancy(which I disagree with). But I don't believe consent should have any factor in the worth of the fetus as a human or merely a parasite. It still sounds like an argument that is rooted in the belief that it's righteous to bring humans into existence purely for the reason of punishing another human or holding up an agreement. I would still happily support an abortion for a woman who purposefully got pregnant because she wanted a baby but then changed her mind for whatever reason and wanted an abortion.

[Obscure_Trash]

Also, I'm curious as to why it's okay to perform an abortion on a woman who was raped. A fetus is still dying. A fetus that had no say in the matter. So, in anti-choice's eyes, would that not still be murder?

Because it's really about punishing a woman for having sex.

[HeatherMarie]

Because it's really about punishing a woman for having sex.

But punishing a man for having sex is obviously not a concern. Doesn't matter that it takes *two* to have sex, if the woman gets pregnant it's all her fault. The man doesn't have consequences.

 

(UGH!)