Abortion

[MasterWeavile898]

If I may ask, because I simply do not understand, how is suicide any worse than an abortion?

 

I see the argument a lot that abortion is fine because it lowers suicides. But wouldn't it make more sense to let them decide for themselves? I mean, if they wanna die let them die. I suppose that with statistics like that it makes equal sense to just kill them without giving them any choice, I just don't understand how either could be considered more wrong (from any standpoint)

[Lila]

It's either high rate of depression (sadly) or execution. You pick.

Secondly, that was mostly a joke. I completely understand we were parasites, but I'm just saying we start from parasites and become the people we are now, debating over the rights we could not have fought for ourselves before.

Thirdly, true.

Fourth, I was speaking generally, but another gray area arises there with that problem...

Fifth, probably could've chosen my words better. I meant two people willing to have sexual intercourse, but not willing to face possible consequences thereof.

Sixth, I agree, but still hold firm on removing the planned parenthood.

It's not a person. It's not "execution," in any sense of the word. It's a termination of a pregnancy by the removal of the fetal cells.

 

 

[Htt71]

To be honest I never considered it that way.

Let them decide? Or decide for them?

 

And in response to Lila:

No matter how much sugar you coat this in you are killing a forming creature that will be a human being. Fancy terminology doesn't negate the fact. Sorry to disappoint.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Htt71

[Obscure_Trash]

These are all factors that are absolutely true, but the reason it is a grey area is you don't have their consent beforehand. I am deeply saddened by those numbers, but I hold my opinion firm (Do not call me heartless for an opinion I was raised and have grown to keep and hold until I die.)

As they don't have consent to be in anybody's body. We cannot take organs from a corpse without prior permission. We cannot just take blood from people to save other patients. So why is a fetus given so many more rights over a living, breathing, sentient person with personhood? Why should a pregnant person have less rights than a corpse?

 

~

 

Here are things that are actually proven to lower abortion rates:

• Comprehensive sex education
• Accessible family planning
• Accessible and affordable contraception and birth control options
• Legalized abortion

If you hope to see the rates of abortion lower, these are the things you need to support and talk about and encourage others to support. Other countries have taken these measures and their abortion rates drop quite drastically.

[Lila]

If I may ask, because I simply do not understand, how is suicide any worse than an abortion?

 

I see the argument a lot that abortion is fine because it lowers suicides. But wouldn't it make more sense to let them decide for themselves? I mean, if they wanna die let them die. I suppose that with statistics like that it makes equal sense to just kill them without giving them any choice, I just don't understand how either could be considered more wrong (from any standpoint)

sorry for double post

 

It's worse because they lived a life of suffering, and others will grieve their passing. Also, they HAVE cost their caretaker money up to the point of suicide.

[Obscure_Trash]

If I may ask, because I simply do not understand, how is suicide any worse than an abortion?

 

I see the argument a lot that abortion is fine because it lowers suicides. But wouldn't it make more sense to let them decide for themselves? I mean, if they wanna die let them die. I suppose that with statistics like that it makes equal sense to just kill them without giving them any choice, I just don't understand how either could be considered more wrong (from any standpoint)

I'm... not even gonna go near the morality of this. However, I'm going to point out that I believe you are misunderstanding. Pretty sure people are talking about lowering the rates of suicide in pregnant persons, not in children (although it would also technically lower there since so many in foster care attempt suicide and many succeed).

Edited December 30, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Syaoransbear]

These are all factors that are absolutely true, but the reason it is a grey area is you don't have their consent beforehand. I am deeply saddened by those numbers, but I hold my opinion firm (Do not call me heartless for an opinion I was raised and have grown to keep and hold until I die.)

Have you ever considered researching on your own to form your own opinion instead of parroting the opinions your parents trained you to believe in? I think everyone should independently research both sides of this argument and come to their own conclusion.

[Htt71]

When did we bring money into this? This is an ethical problem about the life of a human that Shiism not have a money value. Suicide is a choice, and so is living. People suffer hardships ALL THE TIME. Not every one of them was unwanted. We should treat them with the same respect as any other downtrodden person. Some people even recover from poverty or unwanted feelings.

 

If you read me I stated, "and have grown to keep." I have done my research and I still feel the same way

Edited December 30, 2013 by Htt71

[Lila]

Have you ever considered researching on your own to form your own opinion instead of parroting the opinions your parents trained you to believe in? I think everyone should independently research both sides of this argument and come to their own conclusion.

SO MUCH THIS

 

please do not believe because "you were raised to." That is NOT a reasonable explanation for your convictions.

[MasterWeavile898]

@Sock

Ah, okay. That was mostly after reading a lot of stuff about how there's a lot people who wish they'd been aborted (like your one post on the last page) and try to commit suicide a lot

 

@Lila

I guess that makes sense?,Though it sounds to me like there wouldn't be many people grieving. And money is kind of low ATM, clearly worth more than life (I kid, I kid. Point taken)

[7Deadly$ins]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make now. Living and dying are both choices, sure. For people to make.

[Lila]

@Lila

I guess that makes sense?,Though it sounds to me like there wouldn't be many people grieving. And money is kind of low ATM, clearly worth more than life (I kid, I kid. Point taken)

So I definitely meant money in the sense of financial hindrances to the parent/adoption system/foster family etc. In the sense that they may not have been prepared for it....

[Obscure_Trash]

Suicide is a choice, and so is living.

And so is abortion. =3

[Htt71]

I can't stress his enough... AND HAVE GROWN TO KEEP.

I don't mean, I got used to it, I mean I have grown older and done research and agree with my former opinions more than ever. Dont call me uneducated, because that isn't the topic.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Htt71

[Lila]

I can't stress his enough... AND HAVE GROWN TO KEEP.

I don't mean, I got used to it, I mean I have grown older and done research and agree with my former opinions more than ever. Dont call me uneducated, because that isn't the topic.

I apologize. I didn't see your edit when I posted that.

[Htt71]

Eh. I apologize too, I was pretty harsh.

[Syaoransbear]

I can't stress his enough... AND HAVE GROWN TO KEEP.

I don't mean, I got used to it, I mean I have grown older and done research and agree with my former opinions more than ever. Dont call me uneducated, because that isn't the topic.

I didn't call you uneducated.

[Htt71]

You said I hadn't formed my own opinions about a topic, thus implying you believe I'm uneducated about it.

[Syaoransbear]

You said I hadn't formed my own opinions about a topic, thus implying you believe I'm uneducated about it.

But you said "Don't call me uneducated", not "Don't imply that I'm uneducated".

 

And really, you can be educated about something and still just be parroting information given to you without actually forming your own opinion about it using those facts. That's what school basically is, lol.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Syaoransbear

[Htt71]

Lol, true.

I guess I just need to watch my wordings next time I say something forty people are going to reply to

[hazeh]

I will never fathom anyone trying to get rid of Planned Parenthood. Even if you are anti-abortion, you should never be anti-Planned Parenthood. No one should ever be against them.

 

Planned Parenthood. The name implies EXACTLY what it does. It helps people plan to have their families-- including both women who want to have abortions, and women who want to keep their babies. They provide excellent service to women in need in all areas. They provide a lot of female health screening too (this, plus mapping out plans for families, is their main offered service). Planned Parenthood does NOT equal abortions. That is a very, VERY small fraction of the services they provide, and it is not funded by government money whatsoever (only funded through donations).

 

So anyone trying to tear down Planned Parenthood is going to hurt a lot of people for no good reason.

[Lila]

I will never fathom anyone trying to get rid of Planned Parenthood. Even if you are anti-abortion, you should never be anti-Planned Parenthood. No one should ever be against them.

 

Planned Parenthood. The name implies EXACTLY what it does. It helps people plan to have their families-- including both women who want to have abortions, and women who want to keep their babies. They provide excellent service to women in need in all areas. They provide a lot of female health screening too (this, plus mapping out plans for families, is their main offered service). Planned Parenthood does NOT equal abortions. That is a very, VERY small fraction of the services they provide, and it is not funded by government money whatsoever (only funded through donations).

 

So anyone trying to tear down Planned Parenthood is going to hurt a lot of people for no good reason.

This. I was very confused at why you wanted to eliminate them, Htt71. Yes, they use things you don't necessarily agree with, but they're not taking your money to do so, nor or they forcing you to use BC or get an abortion. So, it doesn't really affect you directly.

[Htt71]

When I and most others imply death to planned parenthood I believe we mean the abortion sect. I have no quarrels with those starting families.

 

To be honest abortion may not affect any of us directly, but we still talk about it to decide what is ethical. I have opinions that is it bad, to e put simply, and should be removed. (partly)

 

Due to me being about to pass out I'm signing off. Enjoy!

Edited December 30, 2013 by Htt71

[MasterWeavile898]

When I and most others imply death to planned parenthood I believe we mean the abortion sect. I have no quarrels with those starting families.

Maybe you should be a bit more careful with your words? When you say you want something to end, mean that you want it to end

[Lila]

 

To be honest abortion may not affect any of us directly, but we still talk about it to decide what is ethical. I have opinions that is it bad, to e put simply, and should be removed. (partly)

 

I know you're signing off. But I would like to note that while this is true, there are much more pressing issues to discuss than abortion, believe it or not, and that's why rather than making a decision to ban it, we should leave the choice so that those who really do believe they need it can utilize it, until we have really, really gotten into the gears of it and decided whether or not it is ethical.

 

Which I honestly think it doesn't really matter either way, but obviously not everyone thinks that way.