Abortion

[Fuzzbucket]

I might accidentally stand on a critical electrical lead till it just happened to slip in its socket, if I were a family member. UGH.

 

This is UTTERLY sick. But an organic incubator is what all these anti-choice politicians want women to be, really.

Edited January 4, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Brite]

I might accidentally stand on a critical electrical lead till it just happened to slip in its socket, if I were a family member. UGH.

 

This is UTTERLY sick. But an organic incubator is what all these anti-choice politicians want women to be, really.

Pretty much. Whether you're alive or not. It's all the same in their eyes.

[Aprilis]

Is there anyone here who knows if a fetus whose mother was deprived of oxygen for so long she turned blue and had massive brain swelling at 14 weeks of development still has a possibility of being born healthy?

[ValidEmotions]

It's very unlikely, Aprilis.

 

The situation with the woman on life support is absolutely horrible. I've never liked the mindset of America from the day I started to understand politics and the like. And I'm a U.S citizen. These doctors and the supporting Government officials are probably Pro-Life extremists or just money-hungry lowlifes.

 

I think I read someone saying earlier that the dead shouldn't have rights anyways? If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and disregard my next statement pertaining to the false recollection.

 

If I read true: It's not that the dead have rights, per say, but we honor them. It's a traditional thing rooted in every culture. That's why we see necrophilia as a bad or unhealthy thing. It's why we see grave robbers as criminals. It's also a traditional thing that we try to honor the last wishes made by someone who has passed as best as we can. That includes a signed or written DNR statement/wish to not be on life support.

 

I'm not religious, but I used to study the Bible when I was younger and had faith in the Christian religion (regardless if it was Catholic, Witness, or what-have-you). I do know that God - if he exists - would be disapproving of the actions taken to preserve something that wasn't even near full development and living without support from within the mother's womb.

 

Why would the doctors bother with life support anyways? The fetus is most likely going to suffer more in life than if they had just listened to the mother's living wish of not being placed on life support. I'm not a physician nor am I practicing to be one, but even I know this to be a fact. Plus, what about the small child already alive? The father, thankfully, is doing what he can to keep his living child from being permanently traumatized. We're supposed to protect the young from horrors but our priority needs to be on those already surviving, not on ones that aren't even born yet.

 

I wish to turn back to the matter of abortion itself here a bit.

 

I'm in a sort of middle ground. I'm not strictly against it but I don't fully support it either. I mean, if a girl was dumb enough to get herself knocked up, then I believe she should be responsible for the child if she is capable of raising it to be a good citizen. If she's a horrible person all around (does drugs, gets drunk on a more than regular basis, hangs out with the wrong crowd, etc), then she shouldn't raise the child unless doing so proves to turn her into a better person. If she has mental or medical conditions that prevent her from effectively raising her child, then the child should go to the care of someone else, starting within the family.

 

Now, if it's a case of rape (non-incest or incest), then that's a bit of a different matter. It would be unfair to put the female in the position of raising a child that could only serve as a traumatizing reminder and possibly drive her to suicide if the event itself didn't already make her take her life. Of course, if she wants to raise the child, then she wants to raise the child but I believe that should only be the case if she is strong enough - mentally and emotionally - to have overcome the traumatizing event.

 

I do not support abortions made without the consent/final decision of the woman who is carrying the child. I do not believe that another individual should force someone who is pregnant into a situation they do not want to happen; be it to have or not have the abortion. I do believe that the final decision should ultimately lie with the pregnant woman. It should be her decision as it will be her experience of what happens before and after. She is the one who is physically affected and it is for her to experience whatever the consequences may be; good or bad.

 

However, I do believe that a wanting father should be able to talk through the matter with her; he should still be able to have his opinion known. But, again, the mother is the one physically affected. Not every woman survives child birth or complications related to pregnancy, meaning that she doesn't have a guaranteed second chance. Men, however, do.

 

Finally, I do support emergency abortions. I believe that it would be better to have one survive rather than lose them both. If the child is to be lost, so be it; the mother would survive and recover, thus having a second chance at pregnancy if she so chooses. However, if an emergency c-section is possible, I would highly prefer that method.

[Infinis]

I'm in a sort of middle ground. I'm not strictly against it but I don't fully support it either. I mean, if a girl was dumb enough to get herself knocked up, then I believe she should be responsible for the child if she is capable of raising it to be a good citizen. If she's a horrible person all around (does drugs, gets drunk on a more than regular basis, hangs out with the wrong crowd, etc), then she shouldn't raise the child unless doing so proves to turn her into a better person. If she has mental or medical conditions that prevent her from effectively raising her child, then the child should go to the care of someone else, starting within the family.

A girl is not "dumb enough" to get pregnant. That's actually offensive. Many women DO use some form of birth control, even if it's just a condom. The fact of the matter is that birth control can fail or be tampered with.

 

Most of the time it's not a girl randomly being "dumb." Sex is not only for procreation, and consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy.

 

I also am sad that you seem to pin the blame on the woman here. It takes a man to fertilize an egg and make a fetus. It is only 50% a woman's "fault." It is EQUALLY a man's fault. People continue to overlook this and I'm not sure why. So if you want to call women "dumb" for getting pregnant with or without it being intended, call the men who helped dumb too.

[ValidEmotions]

A girl is not "dumb enough" to get pregnant. That's actually offensive. Many women DO use some form of birth control, even if it's just a condom. The fact of the matter is that birth control can fail or be tampered with.

 

Most of the time it's not a girl randomly being "dumb." Sex is not only for procreation, and consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy.

 

I also am sad that you seem to pin the blame on the woman here. It takes a man to fertilize an egg and make a fetus. It is only 50% a woman's "fault." It is EQUALLY a man's fault. People continue to overlook this and I'm not sure why. So if you want to call women "dumb" for getting pregnant with or without it being intended, call the men who helped dumb too.

When I said "dumb enough," I'm referring to a girl who agrees to unsafe sex; no use of any contraception. Additionally, a lot of the blame falls onto the woman because of the society we live in. I blame the female because she has the ability to say "no," and if the male does not back away, then it becomes rape and the guilt falls to him.

 

Today, sex is less about procreation and more about reputation or even under the influence. So what if the man fertilizes the egg? Unless he forced his way there, the egg can't have the chance of being fertilized without the woman's consent to even let the breach happen. As I see it, men are in this case under the bidding of women.

 

Sex made in simple passion without any forethought of what the partners plan to do or realization of what the consequences can be shows that the partners were dumb, if not at the least unready.

 

This does call on the double standard, however, where women are expected to be virgins till marriage and men are expected to have sex with every hot girl they see.

 

Maybe I'm slightly contradicting myself in a few areas but, my opinion stands: the fault mostly lies with the girl who has all the power to say "no," except in the case of rape, if she winds up pregnant because of the lack of contraception or having too much faith in something man-made.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Narvix

[eritated]

I wish to turn back to the matter of abortion itself here a bit.

 

I'm in a sort of middle ground. I'm not strictly against it but I don't fully support it either. I mean, if a girl was dumb enough to get herself knocked up, then I believe she should be responsible for the child if she is capable of raising it to be a good citizen. If she's a horrible person all around (does drugs, gets drunk on a more than regular basis, hangs out with the wrong crowd, etc), then she shouldn't raise the child unless doing so proves to turn her into a better person. If she has mental or medical conditions that prevent her from effectively raising her child, then the child should go to the care of someone else, starting within the family.

Why are you just putting the blame on the girl? D: It's equally the male's fault.

 

So, hypothetically, in your opinion, if I, a good person who doesn't do drugs, get drunk, or any of the bad things you named, were to get pregnant (ahaha) I should be forced to go through hell for the next 18 years (and beyond that) of my life? o_o What about the fact that I absolutely hate children, and even just the thought of giving birth scares the hell out of me? I also have a rare genetic disorder, and many other bad genes, that I do not want to pass on. Why would you want to punish not just me, but the child, too, just because I did something that is a completely natural thing for humans to do?

 

edit: whoops, didn't see the above posts so I'm basically just repeating what others have already said.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Erica8798

[ValidEmotions]

Why are you just putting the blame on the girl? D: It's equally the male's fault.

 

So, hypothetically, in your opinion, if I, a good person who doesn't do drugs, get drunk, or any of the bad things you named, were to get pregnant (ahaha) I should be forced to go through hell for the next 18 years (and beyond that) of my life? o_o What about the fact that I absolutely hate children, and even just the thought of giving birth scares the hell out of me? I also have a rare genetic disorder, and many other bad genes, that I do not want to pass on. Why would you want to punish not just me, but the child, too, just because I did something that is a completely natural thing for humans to do?

 

edit: whoops, didn't see the above posts so I'm basically just repeating what others have already said.

You state you hated children so why would you even have a hypothetical case for yourself?

 

The case of being dumb mostly resides in the young teens getting themselves knocked up because of stupid choices. If you are almost 18 and know the full extent on what you are doing, then you wouldn't even be considering abortion to begin with because you have decided to claim responsibility. If you know what you are doing without claiming responsibility for your actions, then you must suffer the punishments and are therefore another version of dumb.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Narvix

[eritated]

You state you hated children so why would you even have a hypothetical case for yourself?

 

The case of being dumb only resides in the young teens getting themselves knocked up because of stupid choices. If you are almost 18 and know the full extent on what you are doing, then you wouldn't even be considering abortion to begin with because you have decided to claim responsibility. If you know what you are doing without claiming responsibility for your actions, then you must suffer the punishments and are therefore another version of dumb.

Um, because people who hate children can and do still have sex.

 

I'm 15. I don't care if I get pregnant tomorrow or in 20 years, I will abort the fetus. So yes, I would consider abortion and go through with it. I'm not going to "suffer the punishments" because I did something natural. Aborting the fetus when you know you can't handle/don't want it is being responsible. It's a way better option than bringing yet another unwanted child into the world.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Erica8798

[KageSora]

These doctors and the supporting Government officials are probably Pro-Life extremists or just money-hungry lowlifes.

From what I read in one article, actually, at least one person consulted helped draft the law in question and flat-out states that being brain dead would exempt this woman from the law, since she's not incurably or terminally ill--she's dead.

 

(Though the idea that a terminally ill person could be forced to exist on life support just to incubate a fetus is horrifying. Now, if the person WANTED to endure that, that's one thing--but if they just wanted their pain to end, and they were FORCED to continue to exist, and suffer, just to incubate a fetus? That's ed up. Which is, also, the impression that I got from the articles--though I don't know for sure)

 

If everything goes well and the child is safely 'born' then it's going to leave a slightly disturbing family legacy. I hope the child isn't told it's mother was already dead several months before it was born. If so, at least move someplace the neighbors and school kids won't know. Poor child. Assuming it survives, that is.

 

Can something like this be true? It feels more like a horror story than reality. I need to get my tubes tied asap.

Agreed. Poor kid...

 

Though I dunno if you could ever escape that--with the way the Internet is now, somebody is bound to connect the dots and realize their new neighbor is the guy with the corpse-incubator baby.

 

And the poor kid he ALREADY has. And the poor entire family, honestly. It's just a horror story all around for them.

 

I guess I'll just add "clarifying that even in the highly unlikely event I ended up pregnant, I STILL don't want to be kept on life support if I'm brain dead" to the list of things I never realized would even need to be said.

 

You state you hated children so why would you even have a hypothetical case for yourself?

 

The case of being dumb mostly resides in the young teens getting themselves knocked up because of stupid choices. If you are almost 18 and know the full extent on what you are doing, then you wouldn't even be considering abortion to begin with because you have decided to claim responsibility. If you know what you are doing without claiming responsibility for your actions, then you must suffer the punishments and are therefore another version of dumb.

...Except they could very well be considering abortion.

 

If I were to get pregnant, I'd know full well what I was doing when it happened and I'd still not only consider but insist on an abortion. Even in the highly unlikely event it WASN'T the result of rape (I'm asexual, and not in a relationship of any kind that would cause me to consider sex regardless-).

 

Because I, personally, know that I couldn't handle a pregnancy. It would mentally break me. Not only that but I'd rather not have a chance of passing on my problems to kids. They don't deserve to be saddled with that.

 

An abortion IS a form of responsibility. I'm admitting that my actions had a hand in what was happening, and I'm preventing a worse problem from happening by nipping it in the bud.

 

I mentally could not handle a pregnancy. I'm just not mentally and emotionally stable enough for it. Not to mention that I don't have the resources to raise a child. And I couldn't just dump them on a family member, that would be highly irresponsible IMO. So would dumping them into the already overflowing system. And setting up a private adoption isn't cheap.

[Fuzzbucket]

You state you hated children so why would you even have a hypothetical case for yourself?

 

The case of being dumb mostly resides in the young teens getting themselves knocked up because of stupid choices. If you are almost 18 and know the full extent on what you are doing, then you wouldn't even be considering abortion to begin with because you have decided to claim responsibility. If you know what you are doing without claiming responsibility for your actions, then you must suffer the punishments and are therefore another version of dumb.

Thank you. Not.

 

I was 20. I knew what I was doing.

I was in a committed relationship. (Which later failed, but the guy knew nothing about the pregnancy anyway; he would have been horrified, too. I was NOT carrying it, no matter what.)

Contraception failed.

I had an abortion.

So hit me. It was the only responsible thing to do - for me and the clump of cells.

I was NOT silly and irresponsible.

Edited January 4, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[diannethegeek]

You state you hated children so why would you even have a hypothetical case for yourself?

 

The case of being dumb mostly resides in the young teens getting themselves knocked up because of stupid choices. If you are almost 18 and know the full extent on what you are doing, then you wouldn't even be considering abortion to begin with because you have decided to claim responsibility. If you know what you are doing without claiming responsibility for your actions, then you must suffer the punishments and are therefore another version of dumb.

Just to get this straight, you believe that nine months of medical bills, discomfort, risk of poverty, risk of serious medical conditions (both physical and mental), and risk of death are all suitable forms of punishment for a woman having unprotected sex when she doesn't want a child. Is that correct?

 

Pregnancy is a lot more than 9 months of waiting and then whoops there's the baby. It can have serious and lifelong complications for the woman.

 

And what's the appropriate punishment for the man in your scenario? Because men can say no, too.

[ValidEmotions]

Thank you. Not.

 

I was 20. I knew what I was doing.

I was in a committed relationship. (Which later failed, but the guy knew nothing about the pregnancy anyway; he would have been horrified, too. I was NOT carrying it, no matter what.)

Contraception failed.

I had an abortion.

So hit me. It was the only responsible thing to do - for me and the clump of cells.

I was NOT silly and irresponsible.

I'm not completely against abortion; much of what I'm reading in response to what I've stated sounds like you guys believe I'm 100% against it. I'm neither for it 100% nor against it 100%.

 

Your situation was made with a judgment that seems you've thought it over before you even conceived. That's fine. I, myself, do not know if - in the unlikely chance of my getting pregnant - I should abort or not. My financial situation is below comfortable. I live with my parents and sister; three of us earn checks and we still barely make it living paycheck to paycheck because of so many bills, a lot of them consisting of medical bills and car bills. Our luck is just rotten and my biological dad had ruined my mom's credit years ago which she is unable to fix as of yet.

 

I would consider aborting in the case that I can't easily support a child and my focus is primarily on completing college. Now, while I am active in my committed relationship, we are also smart not to fully trust contraception; he pulls out before any chance to finish.

 

However, I also cannot consider aborting because we do want children in our future and I would happily prefer adoption if my significant other was not against it for reasons even he can't actually figure out.

 

But, again, I am talking about girls who have acted in complete disregard for the consequences. Man-made things always fail at some point in time; this is a given and yet, a lot of ignorant people put their full faith in something to always work without failure.

 

Just to get this straight, you believe that nine months of medical bills, discomfort, risk of poverty, risk of serious medical conditions (both physical and mental), and risk of death are all suitable forms of punishment for a woman having unprotected sex when she doesn't want a child. Is that correct?

 

Pregnancy is a lot more than 9 months of waiting and then whoops there's the baby. It can have serious and lifelong complications for the woman.

 

And what's the appropriate punishment for the man in your scenario? Because men can say no, too.

Yes, I do believe that suffering the 9 months is a suitable punishment for their stupidity. And the men should be legally bound to support the woman. This can be made possible by the mother's parents and a paternity test. The man is never perfectly guiltless but society lets him get away 9 times out of 10; nothing I can do about that.

 

I know that pregnancy is more than just waiting. My mom went through hardships to have myself and my younger sister. She nearly lost her life twice because she wanted us and my sister and I have had a number of medical conditions; my sister is presently suffering through allergies to almost everything under the sun. But after my sister, my mom got her tubes tied willingly because she wanted no more than two children.

 

That's the major thing about this society: Everyone has sex and few ever actually comprehend the consequences that can occur. If you want sex but don't want children, get your tubes tied, find a man who can't fertilize you, or make sure you aren't fertile. There are a plethora of ways that will, for certain, keep you from getting pregnant if you don't want kids; and a lot of the methods are completely natural without having to spend thousands on surgery. If you can't do any of these measures, then don't put your full faith in a man-made contraception; take higher precautions or, better still, abstain.

[sparkle10184]

But getting your tubes tied isn't an available option if you plan to someday have children, just not now. And finding a man that can't fertilize you? That is ridiculous. What if the man you love and want to have sex with can fertilize you? Should the woman dump him and go seek out some other guy she doesn't care about so she can have sex with someone who can't fertilize?

 

And by forcing the woman to give birth you are not just punishing her - you are punishing the child. If the woman keeps the baby there's a pretty good chance it won't grow up happy. And if she chooses to give it up for adoption its life will be a living hell.

 

No, it's not stupid to do something that comes naturally. Sex is natural, and not just for reproduction. No one should be punished for choosing to consent to having sex. In many cases aborting an unwanted fetus is the responsible thing.

[eritated]

That's the major thing about this society: Everyone has sex and few ever actually comprehend the consequences that can occur. If you want sex but don't want children, get your tubes tied, find a man who can't fertilize you, or make sure you aren't fertile. There are a plethora of ways that will, for certain, keep you from getting pregnant if you don't want kids; and a lot of the methods are completely natural without having to spend thousands on surgery. If you can't do any of these measures, then don't put your full faith in a man-made contraception; take higher precautions or, better still, abstain.

You make it sound like it's incredibly easy to get your tubes tied.

 

And why should someone abstain from something they enjoy doing because there's a chance they could get pregnant? That's not right.

[diannethegeek]

I'm not completely against abortion; much of what I'm reading in response to what I've stated sounds like you guys believe I'm 100% against it. I'm neither for it 100% nor against it 100%.

 

Your situation was made with a judgment that seems you've thought it over before you even conceived. That's fine. I, myself, do not know if - in the unlikely chance of my getting pregnant - I should abort or not. My financial situation is below comfortable. I live with my parents and sister; three of us earn checks and we still barely make it living paycheck to paycheck because of so many bills, a lot of them consisting of medical bills and car bills. Our luck is just rotten and my biological dad had ruined my mom's credit years ago which she is unable to fix as of yet.

 

I would consider aborting in the case that I can't easily support a child and my focus is primarily on completing college. Now, while I am active in my committed relationship, we are also smart not to fully trust contraception; he pulls out before any chance to finish.

 

However, I also cannot consider aborting because we do want children in our future and I would happily prefer adoption if my significant other was not against it for reasons even he can't actually figure out.

 

But, again, I am talking about girls who have acted in complete disregard for the consequences. Man-made things always fail at some point in time; this is a given and yet, a lot of ignorant people put their full faith in something to always work without failure.

 

 

Yes, I do believe that suffering the 9 months is a suitable punishment for their stupidity. And the men should be legally bound to support the woman. This can be made possible by the mother's parents and a paternity test. The man is never perfectly guiltless but society lets him get away 9 times out of 10; nothing I can do about that.

 

I know that pregnancy is more than just waiting. My mom went through hardships to have myself and my younger sister. She nearly lost her life twice because she wanted us and my sister and I have had a number of medical conditions; my sister is presently suffering through allergies to almost everything under the sun. But after my sister, my mom got her tubes tied willingly because she wanted no more than two children.

 

That's the major thing about this society: Everyone has sex and few ever actually comprehend the consequences that can occur. If you want sex but don't want children, get your tubes tied, find a man who can't fertilize you, or make sure you aren't fertile. There are a plethora of ways that will, for certain, keep you from getting pregnant if you don't want kids; and a lot of the methods are completely natural without having to spend thousands on surgery. If you can't do any of these measures, then don't put your full faith in a man-made contraception; take higher precautions or, better still, abstain.

That kind of cruelty is not something I'm comfortable with. Do you believe pain and suffering should be inflicted on all women who have unprotected sex without considering the consequences or just those unfortunate enough to become pregnant?

[ValidEmotions]

That kind of cruelty is not something I'm comfortable with. Do you believe pain and suffering should be inflicted on all women who have unprotected sex without considering the consequences or just those unfortunate enough to become pregnant?

Then don't get pregnant.

 

Women who want children go through the exact same pains as those who do not want children but still end up pregnant; there is no bias from the symptoms of pregnancy. It's not so much a punishment as it is an experience to be learned from and possibly even appreciated. A lot of the time, woman who did not want a child but ended up pregnant either went through with the abortion and ended up with immense regret about it. Other times, the woman went through with the pregnancy and, as time passed, found that she couldn't separate from the child and promised to be the best that she can in raising it.

 

It's an experience that no one can truly know the outcome of for each individual woman or for themselves until they go through it. You cannot know that you are, for certain, mentally incapable or physically incapable (or vice versa). There are cases where women who are completely paralyzed are still able to give birth and survive to raise the child as possible for them. The human race survives quite a bit, mentally and physically.

 

You make it sound like it's incredibly easy to get your tubes tied.

 

And why should someone abstain from something they enjoy doing because there's a chance they could get pregnant? That's not right.

I didn't say it was easy and I stated that there were a multitude of other options that did not include thousands of dollars worth of surgery.

 

If they enjoy having sex, then I must question their integrity. I must question if they are simply using their partner for the aspect of sex rather than truly loving their partner for who they are. That is a form of sex I do not approve of and, unfortunately, it rules our society more than the true form that a relationship should be. That is a case that, yes, they should abstain because they cannot understand the true concept of having a sexual relation. Call me of an old mind or traditional in this matter. I truly believe that two people should not have sex unless they are fully committed to each other for life and truly desire one another at that level. If they are only to have sex because they simply enjoy it, then they are not true to their partner and frankly a despicable person in my eyes.

 

Sex is not some little game to be played and for simple amusement. It involves the heart and should only be committed once both partners are fully ready in heart, body, and mind, and understand the implications of it entirely.

 

No, it's not stupid to do something that comes naturally. Sex is natural, and not just for reproduction. No one should be punished for choosing to consent to having sex. In many cases aborting an unwanted fetus is the responsible thing.

Again, there are multiple and more guaranteed ways of preventing pregnancy so long as you don't put full faith in a man-made contraception.

 

I never said having sex was stupid. I said that today a lot of people are showing a lack of intelligence about having sex.

[sparkle10184]

Then don't get pregnant.

 

Women who want children go through the exact same pains as those who do not want children but still end up pregnant; there is no bias from the symptoms of pregnancy. It's not so much a punishment as it is an experience to be learned from and possibly even appreciated. A lot of the time, woman who did not want a child but ended up pregnant either went through with the abortion and ended up with immense regret about it. Other times, the woman went through with the pregnancy and, as time passed, found that she couldn't separate from the child and promised to be the best that she can in raising it.

Excuse me?

Accidents happen. Sometimes even with birth-control it doesn't work and the woman ends up pregnant. She tried her best, so why should she be punished? It's not as simple as "Don't get pregnant". If it was completely controllable then a lot of women wouldn't end up with unwanted pregnancies. But it's not completely controllable, but that shouldn't mean 'no sex'.

 

Who are you to make choices about what other people do in the privacy of their own home? The human race recognizes sex as an enjoyable experience that is not only for reproduction purposes. Do you honestly believe that if you don't want a kid you shouldn't have sex?

 

Actually no, they don't go through the same pain. It's a lot worse if you don't actually want to be pregnant. You won't be as prepared and ready for the experience if you didn't even want to be pregnant in the first place.

 

 

[eritated]

Oh dear. I'm going to try really hard to respond to this in a way that I won't get a warn.

 

Then don't get pregnant.

 

Women who want children go through the exact same pains as those who do not want children but still end up pregnant; there is no bias from the symptoms of pregnancy. It's not so much a punishment as it is an experience to be learned from and possibly even appreciated. A lot of the time, woman who did not want a child but ended up pregnant either went through with the abortion and ended up with immense regret about it. Other times, the woman went through with the pregnancy and, as time passed, found that she couldn't separate from the child and promised to be the best that she can in raising it.

 

It's an experience that no one can truly know the outcome of for each individual woman or for themselves until they go through it. You cannot know that you are, for certain, mentally incapable or physically incapable (or vice versa). There are cases where women who are completely paralyzed are still able to give birth and survive to raise the child as possible for them. The human race survives quite a bit, mentally and physically.

First off, there is NO way to 100% protect yourself against pregnancy. Even if you use all the protection in the freakin' world, things can fail. Unfortunately it's not as simple as just "oh don't get pregnant, k?"

 

I didn't say it was easy and I stated that there were a multitude of other options that did not include thousands of dollars worth of surgery.

 

If they enjoy having sex, then I must question their integrity. I must question if they are simply using their partner for the aspect of sex rather than truly loving their partner for who they are. That is a form of sex I do not approve of and, unfortunately, it rules our society more than the true form that a relationship should be. That is a case that, yes, they should abstain because they cannot understand the true concept of having a sexual relation. Call me of an old mind or traditional in this matter. I truly believe that two people should not have sex unless they are fully committed to each other for life and truly desire one another at that level. If they are only to have sex because they simply enjoy it, then they are not true to their partner and frankly a despicable person in my eyes.

 

Sex is not some little game to be played and for simple amusement. It involves the heart and should only be committed once both partners are fully ready in heart, body, and mind, and understand the implications of it entirely.

 

Other options like....?

 

Okay, what the hell. Not everyone agrees with that. Just because YOU truly believe that, doesn't mean others do. Some have sex because they enjoy it, and they don't care about the commitment aspect. I'm not sure why we're even discussing this, as it has nothing to do with the topic.

 

Again, there are multiple and more guaranteed ways of preventing pregnancy so long as you don't put full faith in a man-made contraception.

 

I never said having sex was stupid. I said that today a lot of people are showing a lack of intelligence about having sex.

Again, like what? You gotta elaborate.

[Katie92]

If they enjoy having sex, then I must question their integrity. I must question if they are simply using their partner for the aspect of sex rather than truly loving their partner for who they are.

 

Sex is a completely natural, healthy way to show affection between partners and can really strengthen emotional bonding. How the hell does someone not have integrity if they enjoy it? You CAN love your partner in every way, shape and form and still have an active sex life, or you can keep it casual. It doesn't make you some ****ty demon with no integrity.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Katie92

[High Lord November]

I'm not completely against abortion; much of what I'm reading in response to what I've stated sounds like you guys believe I'm 100% against it. I'm neither for it 100% nor against it 100%.

 

Your situation was made with a judgment that seems you've thought it over before you even conceived. That's fine. I, myself, do not know if - in the unlikely chance of my getting pregnant - I should abort or not. My financial situation is below comfortable. I live with my parents and sister; three of us earn checks and we still barely make it living paycheck to paycheck because of so many bills, a lot of them consisting of medical bills and car bills. Our luck is just rotten and my biological dad had ruined my mom's credit years ago which she is unable to fix as of yet.

 

I would consider aborting in the case that I can't easily support a child and my focus is primarily on completing college. Now, while I am active in my committed relationship, we are also smart not to fully trust contraception; he pulls out before any chance to finish.

 

However, I also cannot consider aborting because we do want children in our future and I would happily prefer adoption if my significant other was not against it for reasons even he can't actually figure out.

 

But, again, I am talking about girls who have acted in complete disregard for the consequences. Man-made things always fail at some point in time; this is a given and yet, a lot of ignorant people put their full faith in something to always work without failure.

 

 

Yes, I do believe that suffering the 9 months is a suitable punishment for their stupidity. And the men should be legally bound to support the woman. This can be made possible by the mother's parents and a paternity test. The man is never perfectly guiltless but society lets him get away 9 times out of 10; nothing I can do about that.

 

I know that pregnancy is more than just waiting. My mom went through hardships to have myself and my younger sister. She nearly lost her life twice because she wanted us and my sister and I have had a number of medical conditions; my sister is presently suffering through allergies to almost everything under the sun. But after my sister, my mom got her tubes tied willingly because she wanted no more than two children.

 

That's the major thing about this society: Everyone has sex and few ever actually comprehend the consequences that can occur. If you want sex but don't want children, get your tubes tied, find a man who can't fertilize you, or make sure you aren't fertile. There are a plethora of ways that will, for certain, keep you from getting pregnant if you don't want kids; and a lot of the methods are completely natural without having to spend thousands on surgery. If you can't do any of these measures, then don't put your full faith in a man-made contraception; take higher precautions or, better still, abstain.

So yes, let's blame the teenagers who are brought up in an extremely anti-sex education environment for getting pregnant. Then, let us further blame the girl for not forcefully saying "no" to unprotected sex in a peer-pressured, hormone, anti-sex education and emotion-driven environment (THE GIRL, who is brought up to be non-confrontational and polite, not the guy for NOT LISTENING to her wishes and taking anything but an outright "no" as a "yes"), and in a society where rape culture is extremely prevalent and she'll get blamed for her own rape anyway, or no one will believe her (she'll get called out for "really wanting it" or "changing her mind the day after"). Yes, let's call her dumb. You know, you might slightly more ground in a society where: sex is openly talked about, information about sex is accurate and openly available, the attitude isn't "let's hide it or else they'll want to have it", and where contraceptives are easily available (because then they both have that knowledge and do it regardless, although that still doesn't even begin to touch the connotation and expectations of how women are supposed to act). If you could just update me on when the world, particularly the states, begins to act like that, let me know.

 

Then lets take away her rights to abortion. Let us take away her rights to taking responsibility for a mistake. Instead, she'll have to go through an intensive nine month period of time that she is not ready for, or doesn't want for any reason at all (not to mention all the talk that'll go around her). Let's PUNISH her with pregnancy. "Bad teenager, you shouldn't have had sex. Here, have this parasite that'll proceed to grow in you for nine months and could cause a host of serious issues, followed by a dangerous and painful birthing." Abortion is taking responsibility for a mistake. You want to skip right past that and punish them for making a mistake, and not allowing them to take responsibility for their mistake. What kind of sick mentality is that?

 

You admit to your mother almost dying twice. Why do you want to force that on other women?

 

"Get your tubes tied?" You throw that around like I could go and get it done right now, which indicates that you have NO idea how difficult that is.

 

Oh, so now if they guy I love can get me pregnant, I should leave him because he can fertilize me?

 

Your post is full of double standards. You acknowledge that sex is for much more than procreation, and then tell me the best way is to abstain. You assume that everyone knows fully about sex, when they don't, you assume that all decisions are made in supportive environments where the guy will listen to the girl 100% of the time and the girl will voice her opinions strongly and clearly 100% of the time, when it isn't, you assume that sex is always held with clear, rational minds. You know of the dangers and then are willing to actually force that upon other people and prevent them from taking responsibility for their mistake. You call uneducated people "stupid".

 

But let's say they are completely educated and there are absolutely no issues, and they still have unprotected sex and she gets pregnant? She should still be able to get an abortion.

 

The definition of when to get an abortion is very simple; if you want one, you have one. No one should have to go through pregnancy or give birth to a child if they don't want to. That's all that matters.

Edited January 5, 2014 by High Lord November

[Infinis]

That's the major thing about this society: Everyone has sex and few ever actually comprehend the consequences that can occur. If you want sex but don't want children, get your tubes tied, find a man who can't fertilize you, or make sure you aren't fertile. There are a plethora of ways that will, for certain, keep you from getting pregnant if you don't want kids; and a lot of the methods are completely natural without having to spend thousands on surgery. If you can't do any of these measures, then don't put your full faith in a man-made contraception; take higher precautions or, better still, abstain.

People don't comprehend the consequences because other people fail to teach them. Parents drop the ball, and then schools drop the ball, and the internet is full of misinformation. Where are people supposed to learn accurate information from? Sex and pregnancies and other options are largely confined to the Closet of Taboo Things because...well I really don't know why. Maybe people are scared of it.

 

I don't know if your sex ed was useful or not, but in too many places it's inadequate, innacurate, and/or abstinence only, which does not work. What has been proven to work, however, is comprehensive sex education and use of contraception.

 

Consenting to sex is NOT consenting to pregnancy. Children should NEVER be used a punishment; that's just asking for that child to be hated and resented. Forcing anyone to go through a painful medical condition as a punishment because you think they're stupid is cruel and unusual.

 

A lot of the time, woman who did not want a child but ended up pregnant either went through with the abortion and ended up with immense regret about it.

 

untrue. More women experience regret over *adoption* than abortion, and in almost every one of the stories I've read very few women actually regret having an abortion.

[Slaskia]

There are only two 100% 'guarantees' in avoiding pregnancy (on the woman's side anyway):

 

1: abstinence, which is not for everyone, since sex is not just for reproduction.

2: full hysterectomy, which is incredibly difficult to have done here in the US unless you have a medical condition that warrants it (like some forms of cancer), or are 35+ and have kids already (and even THEN, there are many doctors are very reluctant to do it due to how sue happy people can be here).

 

Every thing else has a failure rate (even having the tubes tied)...and on top of that, we have a generally ****ty sex ed system in many places here that leave many women (and men) ignorant of what they are getting into.

[Kith]

Also, there are situations in which you can be 100% certain that you are not physically or mentally capable of a successful pregnancy.

 

1. I have a friend with severe endometriosis - a pregnancy WILL kill her if not terminated immediately.

 

2. People can be on medications that are necessary for their mental and/or physical health but dangerous to a developing fetus.

 

I'm reasonably sure these are not the only exceptions.

[ValidEmotions]

First things first, you are all attacking my opinions. I have simply stated what my beliefs in certain matters are and, while I get that this is a debate thread, you are still attacking me for it.

 

Secondly, HLNov, (I'm not going to bother quoting your entire post; it's too long but I've read it through) you seem to be missing a good portion of what I've been saying. I never said "getting tubes tide" was easy nor am I "throwing it about." I've also said that it would be the guys guilt in the case of rape (which the affects of it from society on the girl is another matter but still serious and in need of serious debate) but society lets the man go 9 times out of 10, especially if the girl does not stand up for herself; I cannot control that and I am not against her getting an abortion if she got pregnant from such a case. Please refer to the very first post I made in this thread and read the entirety of it.

 

Thirdly, I am not against abortion but neither do I support it, 100%. I am open to certain cases of abortion being acceptable. If abortion was taken as the only "responsible" decision, I am not against it if it was done after long thought before there was even the chance of pregnancy. A lot of people who do not want children but had safe sex, while they should not have had full faith in their contraception not failing, and know they would get an abortion before getting pregnant, I have no qualms against their decision.

 

Any emotional/mental/physical consequence after the abortion (or even adoption) is for them to deal with and I only hope that they are happy with their choices.

 

Additionally, I never said sex was just for reproduction. I've stated that (not in these exact words) it's an experience of connection that should not be taken lightly but most of society does. That is why we have illegal prostitution, strip clubs, and the like. Our society (in America at the least) is disgusting to me with this case being one of the reasons.

 

Slaskia, there are herbal methods that can easily be obtained from stores or from the wilderness itself.

 

And, again, there's the factor of ignorance. Children are no longer respecting their parents and care less about what teachers or their parents are trying to tell them about having sex. Once more, don't put your full faith in man-made things; they always fail at some point in time. Take higher precautions if you intend to have sex, whatever your mental state or level of knowledge is.

 

Kith, regarding the second point, that is why a woman always needs to consult a doctor if she plans to get pregnant; they can find alternate medication that will not harm the fetus. Besides, just because someone has a condition like endometriosis does not mean they are barred from having a child if they want one.

 

Oh dear. I'm going to try really hard to respond to this in a way that I won't get a warn.

 

 

First off, there is NO way to 100% protect yourself against pregnancy. Even if you use all the protection in the freakin' world, things can fail. Unfortunately it's not as simple as just "oh don't get pregnant, k?"

 

 

 

Other options like....?

 

Okay, what the hell. Not everyone agrees with that. Just because YOU truly believe that, doesn't mean others do. Some have sex because they enjoy it, and they don't care about the commitment aspect. I'm not sure why we're even discussing this, as it has nothing to do with the topic.

 

 

Again, like what? You gotta elaborate.

 

Now, there are methods such as herbal teas that are proven to make a woman barren when drunk in enough doses. I do not have to elaborate as not every country has condoms or birth control pills but still have forms of contraception. For the rest, you've already read above I assume?

 

Excuse me?

Accidents happen. Sometimes even with birth-control it doesn't work and the woman ends up pregnant. She tried her best, so why should she be punished? It's not as simple as "Don't get pregnant". If it was completely controllable then a lot of women wouldn't end up with unwanted pregnancies. But it's not completely controllable, but that shouldn't mean 'no sex'.

 

Who are you to make choices about what other people do in the privacy of their own home? The human race recognizes sex as an enjoyable experience that is not only for reproduction purposes. Do you honestly believe that if you don't want a kid you shouldn't have sex?

 

Actually no, they don't go through the same pain. It's a lot worse if you don't actually want to be pregnant. You won't be as prepared and ready for the experience if you didn't even want to be pregnant in the first place.

No one is ever prepared for the symptoms of pregnancy. It is the same pain, just different levels of complaining as each individual has a different personality. Sure, some can tolerate pain more than others, I'm one of them. But the symptoms are all very similar if not exact.

 

I never said I was making choices for other people about their private life. You are wrong to assume that I was or was trying to do so. My definition of enjoyable is different from yours. I don't see sex as some responsibility to mankind but I don't see it as an act that can simply be played and taken for granted. This world, however, is doing much of the latter in this modern age and it's unethical. That's why we have a ridiculous show called "Cheaters," why we have people selling themselves for sex and it's not to support their family or against their wills.