ANSWERED:Can We Please Have Prizes Available in the Market

[Ruby Eyes]

2 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

but people leave all the time too, so if the number of active players is static...

 

Just now, Zeditha said:

I discussed this with my mother, and she said, "How many of those users are active?"

As more people sign up, old people will leave. The number will likely grow, yes, but perhaps not all that quickly.

 

 

Yep, they leave - including people who won a Prize already. The number of people without a Prize will sadly also kinda stay static that way.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Ruby Eyes

[Zeditha]

36 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Yep, they leave - including people who won a Prize already. The number of people without a Prize will sadly also kinda stay static that way.

 

But the players without a Prize will also - mostly - be newer users. Most users would expect to, if they keep entering the raffle, get a Prize within a few years. Assuming they play at the rate to fill their shard cap but not much more than that, it would also take about that long to buy a Prize, or to collect 2/3/5 CB of each breed (perhaps a bit longer for the metallics, especially if someone wanted to catch everything themselves).

And honestly I think that's fine. Having them available in the Market would be better of course, though.

 

 

I had an idea that may or may not be good. If the Prizes become available in the Market, people will complain that they haven't been 'won'. So perhaps there could be some kind of raffle-related objective to complete before they become available in the market; say, lose 6 raffles in a row. It'd make a nice consolation prize for those who haven't won.

Or perhaps there should be a 'guaranteed reward' mentality to the Raffle? It'd mean something of a rework for the system, but here's how I see this working:

 

 - Users enter and Prizes are distributed as they currently are. Prize winners are given their prize and then excluded from the next steps.

 - Some percentage of users (say, 10%) are given a metallic dragon (ie a Gold or Silver. I'd prefer the choice, but it could just as easily be random, as long as there's an option to 'cash in' your Metallic Prize for its current market price of shards.) They are now excluded from further steps.

 - For each remaining user who has not won, there could be a randomised reward. Perhaps they have a 50% chance of earning some shard prize and a 50% chance of earning a Prize ticket.

 

The Prize tickets could be specific to each colour/breed of Prize, or not. I imagine it working as 'you have won a Silver Tinsel ticket!' but it could just as easily just be gold/silver/bronze tickets, or Shimmer/Tinsel tickets.

 

Once you collect enough Tickets of the kind needed, you unlock that Prize in the Market. When you have unlocked a type of Prize, you can't win more of that type of ticket.

 

 

This solves a few problems:

 - Keeps some RNG to the system for those who feel Prizes need it

 - Prevents a big flood of Prizes being introduced all at once as soon as enough time has passed that buying one is possible

 - Gives the Raffle more appeal, since there is now a guaranteed reward

 - Keeps the Raffle relevant even with Prizes in the Market

 

But it does have one big drawback in that it keeps RNG in the system. Personally I feel like it shouldn't be too bad as long as you only need, say, 3 tickets of one kind to unlock it, which should mean you can unlock at least one type of Prize by the time you're able to afford them. (I think it should still be 1.5-2 years of shards.)

 

It might be too complicated and convoluted, and it introduces another kind of 'currency'. But I do think it might work, and solve most of the problems in the system.

 

 

 

A simpler solution would be to add the Prizes to the Market, but give Raffle-won Prizes custom codes again. That way they can still be special above Market Prizes (other than their location ofc), but the CB dragons themselves would be available.

[Ruby Eyes]

8 minutes ago, Zeditha said:

Most users would expect to, if they keep entering the raffle, get a Prize within a few years.

Sure, everyone expects, and a tiny fraction actually gets. Look at that calculation from the previous page, which got to an *optimistic* estimate of *only* 83 years.

I'm not sure how long you intend to live, but I wish you good luck with that.

 

11 minutes ago, Zeditha said:

But the players without a Prize will also - mostly - be newer users.

Mostly, sure. This here is an UNHAPPY old user posting. But yeah, if it takes 83 years, I guess with 9 years I'm just a newbie ...

On the other hand, players who just joined have already won their raffle Prize. I don't see your estimates working.

[Zeditha]

Sorry I wasn't clear - I was saying a few years if we upped the amount of Prizes in the Raffle (at at least ten times what they're at now), which would reduce the expected time for a Prize drastically.

[VixenDra]

Winnning a Gold or Silver would be pretty much an obstacle to me, sth I don't need nor want, a punshment more than reward. I don't even need their traing value anymore(acomplished pretty much everything trade-obtainable I needed) IF they were tradeable at all... and I bet they'd be locked like Prizes and exactyl for the same super precautious reasons... You know, peopel WOULD feel like they didn't win the Prize because they won the in-cave ultra rare, or just feel disheartened that of all things they could win they wont the thign that was the furthest away from getting the thign they actualy entered for - for getting the Prize or some way to obtain it.

 

So I'd have win multiple times to get an option to buy a Prize, doesn't sound that good, even with much more ticket winners, there would still always be some longer term players who are put in a disadvantage of never being able to buy a Prize regardless how many Shards they save up, because that's how RNG is flawed. Problem with Prize distribution is RNG with zero possibilities to earn for a Prize some normal way, I'd definitely prefer them simply available in the Market for everyone persistent enough to earn for them, not for 90% of the playerbase and 10% excluded because they never were RNGed for those tickets... because there sure would be (non-newbie) players who will never win one, not to mention enough if multiple are required...

Not to mention that if winning a Prize would mean no ability to buy Prizes without winning the ability, that woudl actually be a punishment for winning, because they won just 1 of which the 'worst' prize woudl allow to get multiple of...

(ofc all depending on what exactly the final mechanic would be)

Just make Prizes available in the Market, no special conditions other than loads of Shards saved.

 

And yes, I'd give the raffle winners the ability to choose codes and make it their prize, aside to a free valuable dragon and quicker CB Prize goal progress (no, don't exclude them, let the just actually win something, not exclusive but still more of a thing so rare noone else could possible have as many of as the winners, keep this the prize part, so it still feels big to win withotu taking away from others CB Prizes currently actually are - if you win you take someone's potential CB they'd get if you didn't enter, that's simply how it works currently in practice, ofc you can't help it). This is something I'd fully support, and although I disregard codes in general, picking my own for a won dragon would indeed feel like winning something, because hey, customised urls have something satyifying to them in general, not to mention gettign a free dragon and progressing on my own CB Prize goals quicker than otherwise, I'd be beyond happy to win such a boost to a non-exclusive expensive Market-only breed..  okay, in my case not if I won thevariant I'd have alreayd bought but I'm one of very few in not an only player who releases all CBs that make a 3rd of a breed/variant, everyone else would still be happy for an extra CB Prize, and with a custom code!

 

So, to  keep it short, Prizes should be added to the Market without any special conditions (at worst, the condition could be to enter the raffle at all, but the result should have no influence).

Keep the raffle but make it all about getting an extra CB free and picking your own custom code. Keeps winning special, because the breed is otherwise obtainable only for a months-load of Shard saving and you pick your url. No punishments neither to you for winning (which greying out the buy option for any time would do) nor to the never winning vast amjority of the playerbase (which the current system does).

 

And please, no random buy result, or at least let people choose the colour (I bet they'd have different prices) if theyre really must be any randomness there. Shards take too long callendar-wise, and to get even just 1CB per variant, you need 6 loadfulls, and I see people suggesting even up to 2 years worth of Shards, which would make 12 years, and now how about all the majority who likes to at least have a MF CB pair per breed? that woudl be 24 years, ofc without skipping a week and without buying anything else from the Market... Even with 1 year worth of Shards would mean 12 years... now add any randomness factor to this... plz god damn no, why on earth. 12 years is still an eternity for a browser adopt game... that's more than DC is by now...

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by VixenDra

[Ruby Eyes]

That seems like a good option, too. Allow raffle winners to pick a code for their Prize to make it more extra-special than a Market Prize would be.

It could just be a 5 character input field with an availability-checking function on it like there is already for naming - just leave it empty for a random code when you grab your Prize.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Ruby Eyes

[Zeditha]

When I said 'exclude them from further steps' I meant 'take them out of the prize pool because they have now won something'.

 

If Metallic prizes were to be introduced, I would be firmly arguing for the option to 'cash in' the egg for its current shard worth. That way, even if all you want is the Prize, it gives you some level of progress towards that goal.

 

After posting that idea above, I thought perhaps it would be best if losing players could choose between a ticket prize and a shard prize. That way, people who just want their Prize dragon can choose to get their tickets towards it, and people who aren't interested can gather shards for different Market dragons.

And as long as you can cash in your metallic, you won't have to feel bad if you won said egg, because it'll give you a super big shard boost towards getting that Prize.

 

The metallic prizes shouldn't be too common so that people would get all metallics and not get a chance at Prize tickets. No more than 20% of users should get an egg prize in one raffle, at most. (<1% getting prizes, 5% a Gold, 10% a Silver would seem ok to me.)

[HeatherMarie]

This idea was talked about awhile back in a different thread (I think one of the earlier shard-related threads?). Some of us pointed out that it would be *very* annoying/frustrating/disappointing to enter the raffle and then 'win' a handful of shards. I believe, in that case, it was being talked about as another raffle-winning option, like there would be more actual 'winners' but some would only win shards. If the shards/whatever were only going to people who already lost the actual Prize RNG, that'd be different, though I still don't personally like the idea. In general it just sounds too complicated/messy, needlessly so. *IF* Prizes were to ever be in the Market, why should there be additional hoops to jump through like collecting 'tickets', when there isn't for any other breed in the Market? The Market is about playing normally to collect shards, then spending those shards on dragons you can't otherwise get. No reason to make it more complicated then that, imo. 

 

(Although, if it turns out that TJ would be more likely to put Prizes in the Market if there *were* additional hoops like tickets, then sure okay please go ahead. I don't think it's necessary at all, but if it would actually get Prizes IN the Market I'm up for almost anything, lol.)

[osmarks]

Zeditha: that idea sounds kind of pointlessly convoluted though probably better than the existing system if the number of tickets required is fairly low.

[VixenDra]

38 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Zeditha: that idea sounds kind of pointlessly convoluted though probably better than the existing system if the number of tickets required is fairly low.

 

I guess most of us are just getting desperate about having those 2 breeds obtainable this much. We'd still rather another flawful sollution than the current state of things, if a good sollution cannot be hoped for, a flawful but still better than current ways would still feel like a huge improvement. 

Still, regular Market availability is a win-win... but if TJ wants to keep Prizes a DC's cancer, he just won't heal it, or at least not completely:( still, turning this cancer into a benign tumor would still be better than nothing, if healing is not an option to him, though I'll never understand how can that be considered a good thing, considering what kind of influence it has on the userbase as a whole...

 

I really wish they'll be simply added to the Market this Christmas because anniversary, or on DC's nearest birthday because that's when most of things happen, both dates are good, the first ofc better because the date comes sooner from now, and the sooner the better because time probably needed for obtaining the most default minimal goal is likely just way too massive for this game to postpone it any longer. Life's too short.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

Precisely. There have to be two sides to every argument/discussion, and we have to hear each other out. My mind has done a 180 flip sometimes reading through certain threads because people have opened my eyes to new points. That’s what it’s all about!

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah - that's partly why TJ disabled polls in suggestions - because you can't change your mind. I well recall a thread where about half of us DID change our minds, but the poll still showed otherwise.

[Saami]

Not sure I follow why prizes won have to have some kind of identifier, as if the market designation on market bought eggs wouldn't be enough.

[Guillotine]

Yeah, the Market biome would be enough of a tell. No need to add more than that.
 

[The Dragoness]

I would rather not have special codes attached to raffle Prizes, because I'm guessing that would only work for *new* raffle Prizes. Otherwise TJ would need to contact each of the new 1,020 Prize owners about choosing a code and then remove all of their old codes. I don't think raffle Prizes need a distinguishing factor anyway. Winning a free CB Prize is cool enough.

 

Anyway, I still want to see CB Prizes in the market. I don't think they should be cheap, but I hope it wouldn't take many years to ean enough shards either. Maybe a year of saving? Any less wouldn't be enough IMO, as I do think they should stay special (but not exclusive). I would like to see all variants valued at the same price as well.

 

I'm on the fence about consolation prizes. On one hand, I know how heartbreaking it is to enter month after month and never win anything. I can understand why winning something, even if it's not a CB Prize, would lessen that feeling slightly. But I also have to point out that not winning is just a risk that comed with entering a raffle. And wouldn't a CB common (ow whatever the consolation prize would be) only dull the sadness over not winning for a little while? Not everyone will want the consolation prize in the first place. I think, regardless of consolation prizes or how many Prizes are handed out each month, that feeling will always exist in the community. At least it will be less prevalent with CB Prizes in the market.

Edited October 2, 2018 by The Dragoness

[Ruby Eyes]

The only consolation prizes I'd accept would be breed-onlies, like CB alts and hybrids Kinda like the old HMs.

[Zeditha]

I know my suggestion was needlessly complicated (felt that way when I was typing it) but I'm just trying to think of a way where we can keep the RNG that some people (not me...) seem to love so much without it being *too* intrusive.

 

I'm all in favour of consolation prizes as long as:

 - They are given out *after* the normal Prize dragons, and this is made clear, so nobody feels like they missed out on a Prize because of receiving the consolation prize.

 - They are either tradable, or can be cashed in for their shard worth. (Or both! Both is good!)

 

Also preferable is that consolation prizes are given to a percentage of users rather than a set number distributed, even if those percentages are 1% or 2%.

If the addition of consolation prizes would get in the way of increasing Prize dragon distribution, though, Prize fixing first. Please.

[UnicornMaiden]

Wow, this was an intensive thread to read through! I never realized that having CB and 2G Prizes was so important to some people.

 

I don't really like the idea of having Prizes in the market just because that's antithetical to the concept of a prize. Prizes are something you win, not something you buy. That said, I think it's fine to make the Prize Dragons more accessible since the raffle odds are not very good. How about this:

 

Have three raffles per month instead of one. This increases the number of Prizes given out from 60 to 180, tripling the number of winners. Give each raffle different entry requirements:

• Keep the first raffle the same as what we currently have: Raise three dragons in a month to enter. This is easy to do and keeps the raffle accessible to everyone.
• The second raffle has a higher number of dragons required to enter. Make it manageable for most players but requiring more time and effort.
• The third raffle requires a really high number of dragons to enter. Make it so only people who spend a lot of time playing the game can enter.

 

Since the second and third raffles have more stringent requirements there would be a much smaller pool of people competing for each Prize. This means that people who put in enough time and effort to be able to enter would have much better odds of winning. It also means that people who raise the maximum number of dragons could be entered in three raffles at a time instead of just one, meaning it could be theoretically possible to win multiple Prizes in one month.

[HeatherMarie]

18 minutes ago, UnicornMaiden said:

Wow, this was an intensive thread to read through! I never realized that having CB and 2G Prizes was so important to some people.

 

I don't really like the idea of having Prizes in the market just because that's antithetical to the concept of a prize. Prizes are something you win, not something you buy. That said, I think it's fine to make the Prize Dragons more accessible since the raffle odds are not very good. How about this:

 

Have three raffles per month instead of one. This increases the number of Prizes given out from 60 to 180, tripling the number of winners. Give each raffle different entry requirements:

• Keep the first raffle the same as what we currently have: Raise three dragons in a month to enter. This is easy to do and keeps the raffle accessible to everyone.
• The second raffle has a higher number of dragons required to enter. Make it manageable for most players but requiring more time and effort.
• The third raffle requires a really high number of dragons to enter. Make it so only people who spend a lot of time playing the game can enter.

 

Since the second and third raffles have more stringent requirements there would be a much smaller pool of people competing for each Prize. This means that people who put in enough time and effort to be able to enter would have much better odds of winning. It also means that people who raise the maximum number of dragons could be entered in three raffles at a time instead of just one, meaning it could be theoretically possible to win multiple Prizes in one month.

 

I definitely don't like the idea of more raffles that only a handful of people actually have the ability to enter. That doesn't really address the issue at all, since the majority of players will *still* not be getting a Prize, since only the people who play all the time will be able to enter. I can very easily see that third raffle leading to a handful of very active users getting 2, 3, 4+ CB Prizes while the majority still have none. The idea here isn't to make sure the most active people win, it's to give *everyone* a realistic chance to get a Prize. I don't think I should have such a higher chance at getting a Prize simply because I play hours every single day. I want users in general, all DragonCave players, to have a better more realistic way to obtain a CB Prize. 

[Fuzzbucket]

25 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I definitely don't like the idea of more raffles that only a handful of people actually have the ability to enter. That doesn't really address the issue at all, since the majority of players will *still* not be getting a Prize, since only the people who play all the time will be able to enter. I can very easily see that third raffle leading to a handful of very active users getting 2, 3, 4+ CB Prizes while the majority still have none. The idea here isn't to make sure the most active people win, it's to give *everyone* a realistic chance to get a Prize. I don't think I should have such a higher chance at getting a Prize simply because I play hours every single day. I want users in general, all DragonCave players, to have a better more realistic way to obtain a CB Prize. 

I agree. More raffles would only mean the huge majority of players having more chances to be disappointed. And no support for effectively a better deal for people - like me and Heather Marie -who can spend days online. There is nothing wrong with getting a prize for saving hard for one. Do you know how hard it is to resist buying that common CB you need when you are saving for a gold. I'd even have to resist buying that gold if I could save for a prize instead.

Like Heather Marie I want everyone to be able to get one. However hard it is.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[HeatherMarie]

Also, I'd just like to point out that 'prizes' being something you have to win in a contest or raffle is only *one* of the actual definitions of the word 'prize'. A lot of people seem to get hung up on that, that these dragons are called 'Prize' dragons so obviously they can only be available through something like a raffle. However, many dictionaries give multiple definitions of the word 'prize', like the Oxford dictionary which has among the definitions:

1.2 Something of great value that is worth struggling to achieve.

 

The website for the Cambridge dictionary also has this:

 

something important and valuable that is difficult to achieve or get

 

And the Merriam-Webster website shows this:

 

2: something exceptionally desirable

 

So I really think we shouldn't be getting hung up on the perceived definition of what a 'prize' is. 'Prize' dragons can still be special and 'prize'-worthy while also actually being obtainable by more then a tiny little group.

 

[Zeditha]

Although I dislike the specific idea suggested, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to more raffles, as long as you couldn't win more than once per month.

But raffles with wildly different entry requirements - for example, we can have our 'raise 3 dragons <of X type>' raffle as normal, and then perhaps a 'use 5 BSAs <of X type>', or maybe 'collect 8 eggs <from biomes/AP/Market>'. Maybe 'set up 5 trades' (or 'offer on 5 trades') could be one, maybe 'name or rename 10 dragons'.

The one with fewest entrants should be drawn first, and the winners are given their Prize and not entered in the other raffles.

 

The thought here is that there are many ways to play DC other than the core 'raise dragons' part, and it'd be nice if those things were rewarded in the same way.

 

 

(Note: I don't necessarily think this is the *best* solution, just an idea.)

[osean]

Thinking about it now, I am really kind of neutral on whether they make it into market or not. At the very least, I do think the number released each month should be doubled or more. 

[Ruby Eyes]

It should scale with the number of people entering, at least ... like 1 out of X players wins.

[JavaTigress]

On 10/1/2018 at 11:51 PM, Guillotine said:

Yeah, the Market biome would be enough of a tell. No need to add more than that.
 

Valid point. The dragons I have purchased in the Market ( AND I have bought a few ) Are ALL clearly marked as such if ypouy look at their pages. I assume that a Prize purchased in market would be the same.