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ANSWERED:Can We Please Have Prizes Available in the Market

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I don't really want to see them in the market but I would like to see a way for you to earn extra raffle tickets each month for the current draws.

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1 minute ago, osean said:

I don't really want to see them in the market but I would like to see a way for you to earn extra raffle tickets each month for the current draws.

what good would that do?  Only 60 are given out as it is.  More tickets are not going to increase the extremely slim chances of winning.

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I would be okay with a two year shard requirement (or any concrete shard requirement) as long as the goal is tangible. 

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2 hours ago, osmarks said:

The multiple-prizewinners really only become relevant extrapolating into the far future of the raffle system. Getting rid of them will not fix the fundamentally broken prize distribution.

Of course not. But the longer these raffles go, the more multiple winners we will have.

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3 hours ago, osean said:

I don't really want to see them in the market but I would like to see a way for you to earn extra raffle tickets each month for the current draws.

 

Extra raffle tickets doesn't change how many are given out, though, and that's really the main problem. So *few* are actually given out each month that the vast majority of players are not going to get one any time within the next handful of years, and that doesn't change if a few people get extra tickets. Even if *everyone* got extra tickets, it's still the exact same number being won.

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Exactly. The only thing extra tickets would accomplish is to stack the deck in favor of the more active players - without any guarantee, of course. And can you imagine what would have happened to Xeno ratios if we'd have gotten an extra ticket for every three wyrms raised? Ouch.

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2 hours ago, olympe said:

Exactly. The only thing extra tickets would accomplish is to stack the deck in favor of the more active players - without any guarantee, of course. And can you imagine what would have happened to Xeno ratios if we'd have gotten an extra ticket for every three wyrms raised? Ouch.

 

Omg I can just imagine a Xeno drought like the metal drought we had way back when. Yikes. (And yeah, I've expressed multiple times that I don't really like the idea of being able to get bonuses, whether it be extra shards or tickets, just because I have the ability to play more often then some people. Me having no life should not directly disadvantage people who actually work full-time or whatever.)

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21 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

I didn't say 7 days a week I said 52+ weeks in a row.  (also despite being on everyday it usually take me all week to get my 100 so yes 7 days is accurate for me.)  So it IS still a lot of work AND time.

It all depends on what you do to get them.  I usually breed and auto-abandon all my pinks, reds, bolts. etc.  Each egg adds up. (of course, I do have quite a hoard of them :) )  But it is not that hard.  Breeding and abandoning anything  gives you shards.

 

Not that I am opposed to having them in the market...because I am greedy like that.  

Edited by Imzadi

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The Prize Dragons  (  Eastern and Western ) should remain raffle wins only.

 

It is their rarity that makes them treasured and highly valued. 

 

Purchasing them diminishes all that makes them special and desired.

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13 minutes ago, orphaned said:

The Prize Dragons  (  Eastern and Western ) should remain raffle wins only.

 

It is their rarity that makes them treasured and highly valued. 

 

Purchasing them diminishes all that makes them special and desired.

 

It is their rarity which makes trading so very very unbalanced, because 2nd-gens are still often the end-all-be-all in trading and still often cost ridiculous amounts (or are only traded with other winners). It is their rarity that makes a *lot* of people very very disadvantaged against the very tiny portion that actually wins, it is their rarity that will continue to restrict these wonderful prizes to only a very tiny portion of users for *years* to come. There is 'rare' and then there is 'pretty much completely unobtainable for the majority of users'. Rare is fine. Golds are rare. Dinos are relatively rare. Restricting the *vast* majority of users from *ever* getting one (in a reasonable amount of years) is beyond 'rare'. 

 

And actually, the idea that being able to purchase them would somehow take away from their specialness is an opinion that isn't held by the majority of people around here. Even a lot of winners have said they don't think that way. In general, for a lot of us, something isn't 'special' if you can't actually get it at all, it's just 'unobtainable'. It's *special* if it's a reward for hard work, or if it takes awhile to get but you *can* actually get it eventually. And the only way being able to purchase them will diminish their specialness is if people view it as something that *should* remain unobtainable for the majority of users. It's not less special if you deliberately work towards it for two years rather then winning it in a random raffle (actually, some of us are of the view that it's *more* special if you get it from hard work then just a random raffle). 

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That's the problem with blanket statements,  it's a one size fits none.  

 

I don't give a hoot about a cb tinsel, it's the shimmer artwork that grabs me.  If the shimmer artwork was on a common I'd have my scroll stuffed with them and not say a word on prizes.  I previously collected silvers (before sprite update) and was tickled to death everyone else thought they were worth less than golds (which I didn't like before the sprite update and am marginal on since).  I don't go for perceived "worth", I go for what I like.  

 

I like to make holiday checkers,  the highly restricted current situation with shimmer availability means I work years to even get a 3rd even gen.  Which is worse than just normal holiday x common reaching another generation. :o

 

 

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Just to Be clear, this is not me attempting to mini-MOD. This is me suggesting kindness when people want to work on this idea and not letting it get off course. If it appears that way, it isn't meant that way. I don't like people being sad on something they feel would have a very positive impact on the entire Community. That is all. *Ahem*

 

I think this is a great thread with lots of great ideas and feedback and interaction. I also think that some people, that every time posts Side A or Side B, that some people repost a barrage of their repeated feelings, logic, arguments, point of view, etc. A LOT. Which is ok. But, I feel like there is a lot of tug of war that is the same thing on loop without really new ideas or things being said. I mean, as someone who happened to win a prize, I actually am afraid to post in this Thread for fear that I might offend someone because "I just cannot any longer understand" and that idea will carry over into other things that I am trying to make a positive impact with, that I did *LONG* before that event happened. And I don't want that to happen, but I don't think it is because people are mean or being silly.

 

There have been some new ideas that get popped in and out, and sometimes very deep in depth discussion is good because it really drills down the point. But please know if you feel like you are really putting your views out there, and stuff isn't happening or people don't understand or whatnot, it is kinda like screaming into a void or at a wall and expecting it to change its mind.

 

At this point, to be more productive, I think it would actually be beneficial to possibly consider a "Add XXXX to Marketplace" Thread and a "Don't Add XXXX To Marketplace" Thread, and stop the back and forth. That way, people who generally have the same idea, but maybe have different minor points, and that way the Team can work together to Toss the idea around and get a few really good versions of it, or maybe refine various options.

 

I'm not saying this to try and pass judgement or say what you all are doing is bad and wrong. Quite the Opposite. I feel this is a thread that has become a Thread of Very Deeply Held Personal Feelings, and Ideas that Stem from those Feelings. So if someone posts the complete counter argument, which I feel is also heavily feeling driven vs ideas and development of them and working towards goals and potential things for Admins to scratch their chin and go hmmm... that isn't such a bad idea, or maybe that has merit. But if it is more of a "vent" thread where people say they are highly disappointed they have been involved for several years and have yet to win and probably won't ever win cuz they have such poor chances and that isn't fair - People aren't here to do that, They want to work on ideas. They already know how they feel. You need  Actionable Ideas and Fleshed out Variations. Not that your feelings aren't important too. But this will be my last post in this thread ever because I don't feel like I can fairly post without deeply offending people. And that is not what I want to do. Even if I don't have an opinion and/or agree or disagree with the topic. I am still always going to be in "That Group" and it makes a difference, and it shouldn't.

 

But this thread really should **ONLY** be about people wanting to add things to the Marketplace that aren't there already. If people want to argue that things **SHOULD NOT** be added to the market, those ideas or thoughts should have THEIR OWN THREAD. I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to debate. But we are long past the debating here. Someone maybe needs to consider that while it hasn't gotten to the point of hostile, people are deeply hurt or impacted by posts in this thread, and that is NOT why this thread was created. It was created to support that idea that, generally, people who don't like their limited chances of winning, should be able to own this thread. People who want to argue reasons why it should NOT be, are not helping the situation. It is making it worse and stopping progress from happening.

 

From my years in Debate, this is not a debate. This is an idea and a concept. The OP, and many posters, *WANT* more things added to the marketplace. So any conversation should revolve around that focus. Not against that focus. You may agree and have some differing ideas on how it could be tweaked, or what should or shouldn't be added, or how it might work, or values, or whatever, but there needs to be the creation of ideas, not a debate of deeply held feelings. Because if that keeps up, this is going to turn into a Vent thread, not a Hey, let's work together and flesh out some really good options to maybe make this happen.

 

And I'm totally 100% OK not being involved in that conversation because I cannot really answer that being on the other side of the fence now. It does change perspective. But I very much care about a lot of people in this thread, and I want them to have their ideas and concepts focused on and not have to continue the argue the ideas of why or why not this is a good idea. It doesn't matter if this is the BEST or WORST idea. THE OP stated the Idea is to *ADD* Items. This concept does not break any rules of the Forum, this concept is well received and has had a lot of discussion and ideas and things to consider in all sorts of ways, even a bit beyond the marketplace. And that is where the focus needs to remain. Not on anything else.

 

I don't want anyone to think I ever took anything personally and I don't know why I follow this thread. I think it is because it pops up so much and I was trying to learn about things when I got back on the forums. I want you all to have a successful awesome positive discussion and not the continued back and forth as that literally accomplishes nothing.

 

Yah that was a lot to say, and I don't think a Mod needs to come tell people they need a spanking, no one has been bad. I just can feel those things very strongly from the words and ongoing posts. That isn't fair to the people who want to see this idea or some version potentially happen. If you don't like it and want to oppose it, it is better to go start a thread dedicated to that. I want people to enjoy working with like minded people towards a generally common goal and see what else spins round. But not the same back and forth for pages and pages. It isn't fair to the people who have invested so much, and it isn't fair to ... in a sense, although unintentional by those who may really disagree and try to enlighten or share feedback with others, but it isn't helpful. It derails the goal the OP set.

 

The Community needs to be supportive and positive. If the thread isn't your cup of tea or an idea you like, unless there is something HORRIFIC or BREAKS GAME or VIOLATES ToS or IDK - Suggests kicking puppies and then using them as a replacement hockey puck on the ice arena... I get posting disagreements for that. But I think this thread has gone on long enough that we know it isn't that way, and if you disagree, you may wish to consider stepping aside and letting the people brainstorm and do the work they are deeply invested in doing. Crazy things change all the time in the game. If you feel it would really make the game bad, then I feel, at this point, again, it needs its own thread.

 

I hope that helps people to consider either a different thread, or to stop unintentionally throwing off and putting people on repeat for posts on end. Because that accomplishes nothing, and as it is VERY clear, some people are very deeply invested in this idea in both time and emotions and game play activity. Be a cool member of the community and support people being involved and caring.

 

You can choose to disagree with me, but that is just how I see it. The Topic isn't Is this a Good Idea? The Topic is Let's Do This! GO! And at this point, let people Go Go Go even if you disagree!

Edited by Natayah

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two separate threads for the same discussion makes no sense what-so-ever.  Because you can not discuss the pros of an idea without the cons.  Both sides need to be heard. So, yes it is a debate. 

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5 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

two separate threads for the same discussion makes no sense what-so-ever.  Because you can not discuss the pros of an idea without the cons.  Both sides need to be heard. So, yes it is a debate. 

 

Sorry, Natayah, but I agree. What would be the point of a thread with just one side ? It would just be a yes yes yes yes agree support yes.

 

And Prizes are a very specific problem. Anything else that isn't there doesn't really need discussion, and is already mentioned in the feedback thread. Also  everything else here can be obtained in the biomes. The prizes are a whole different thing.

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9 hours ago, orphaned said:

The Prize Dragons  (  Eastern and Western ) should remain raffle wins only.

 

It is their rarity that makes them treasured and highly valued. 

 

Purchasing them diminishes all that makes them special and desired.

  • It unbalances trading massively in favor of those lucky few.
  • Randomly getting a thing makes it less special to many than actually earning it.
  • Why the bold?
  • They are considered nice-looking by many and are desired by lineage builders, but most people can't get them because of the stupid system.
  • They're basically unobtainable. That is not the same as special.

@Natayah There's no sense in splitting the pros and cons into separate threads. Suggestions must be kept together with arguments against them.

Edited by osmarks

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@osmarks you forgot to add that very few people have already won more than once, one person had won three times in a row iirc

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I'd like to see them in the Market for a very high price (10 000?). I'm into lineages and it irritates me I cannot start my own. Also in the Market you could actually choose the color (silverrrrrrrrrrrr).

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Still waiting to see them in the Market. 

There's just no other fair way than to let everyone work to get them all if they want to. 

Raffle is so unfair, you can enter every single month and still never win, and since these are such an ultimate trading power of the 2g SA and ND value that they just must be somehow more evenly distributed, while still kept rare, with untradeable CBs 2gs would still be of value (because how many CBs one could get without winning the raffle? 1-2 a year depending on the price? and people tend to trade for bloodswaps a lot, especially of things somehow hard to get) but this time not for a tiny elite but for everyone who collected enough shards and decided for saving them for Prizes over spending them on other biome breeds, which IS fair, especially with how shards are designed - you don't need to spend billions of active hours in the game but also you can't just login once-twice a month and run, you have to be there long and often enough to stack most of the weekly shards every reset to hope to earn for them within a reasonable time... Which would still be long as hell since there are as amny as 6 different sprites, and now add both genders. vast majority of players collect at minimum. There could be like no better moment and way to make them TRULY obtainable for everyone who wants them than to add them to the shop, probably this Christmas. 

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I think two years of shard collecting is high enough.

 

I'd also be OK (ish) with buying a "prize - Western" and a "prize - Eastern" and RNG decides which you get - like with the dorsals you might get a red ATM. That might make the people who want to keep things so SPESHUL a little less antsy ?

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6 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I think two years of shard collecting is high enough.

 

I'd also be OK (ish) with buying a "prize - Western" and a "prize - Eastern" and RNG decides which you get - like with the dorsals you might get a red ATM. That might make the people who want to keep things so SPESHUL a little less antsy ?

I'd much rather be able to pick which one got if I worked that long and hard for it.  Personally I only really like the silvers. both the other colors are meh. and I may not even bother with them if this ever became a thing.

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5 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

I'd much rather be able to pick which one got if I worked that long and hard for it.  Personally I only really like the silvers. both the other colors are meh. and I may not even bother with them if this ever became a thing.

 

So would I - just trying to look to something that might make some of the nay-sayers happier...

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I'm not sure there is a good "middle ground" most of the people against seem to be so because they want prizes to continue to be valuable and dominate the trade market.  And that will eventually go away if they become something everyone could work for.

 

"I want them to be valuable because I hope to take advantage of that value someday."  Which is a nice idea, but very few people will ever have that experience.

 

Honestly, it's not as great as some people think.  Sure you can ask for whatever you want, but what are the actual chances of others having it at that time?  I traded exactly one of my prizes babies, the rest have been randomly gifted. because there is very little left in the game I can't get just fine without it.

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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I think two years of shard collecting is high enough.

 

I'd also be OK (ish) with buying a "prize - Western" and a "prize - Eastern" and RNG decides which you get - like with the dorsals you might get a red ATM. That might make the people who want to keep things so SPESHUL a little less antsy ?

I'd be okay with this as well. I think I'd also like the option to buy a specific one, so I can actively work towards getting all variants, but this is fine too. 

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11 hours ago, Natayah said:

This is an idea and a concept. The OP, and many posters, *WANT* more things added to the marketplace. So any conversation should revolve around that focus. Not against that focus.

 I don't think that's how S&R is supposed to work. Because everything has pros and cons, and some suggestions in this very sub-forum are so out there that there's no way to agree with them. ("Let's make DC more like Neopets!"/"Let's have epic dragon battles!"/"Let's create a hybrid for every possible breed combination!"...) So, criticism of an idea and/or suggestion itself is a necessary part of the discussion. This is doubly true for everything concerning our very own DC drama llamas (aka CB Prizes).

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