ANSWERED:Can We Please Have Prizes Available in the Market

[ShorahNagi]

*Sees all the comments about value* *thinks about the number of CB prize dragons*

 

If my math is not wrong...there are 840 original CB prizes. Since the raffles started in May, and add an additional 60 each month, again if I'm not wrong...we're currently at 1,200 CB Prize dragons. I know many argue that they are losing value, but I don't feel that is the case (I still see people all the time asking for 2nd Generation prizes in the Trade forums and the like). So at most, that's 1,200 people who can start lineages (though I know there are a few who have won the raffles twice (myself included in that number)).

 

I recall originally feeling opposed to this idea, but then the more I thought about it...the more I found myself liking it. Like the original Hollies, Frills, and Auras (Bright Pinks) - the original raffle prizes have their dates and in many cases custom codes to set them apart, so there is still something special there...and I know there are some people who want offspring from those.

 

Provided the Raffle system remains in place and remains the same (gives everyone a chance as I've found the objectives to be easy enough to where even casual players like myself can accomplish them in the first week), I wouldn't mind seeing prizes added to the market, provided that they are given a set price as opposed to fluctuating.

 

 

[Nove NuVonde]

Some people here have already talked about the merits of dc having almost no exclusive dragons that only a special few get, so I'm going to primarily echo that sentiment without getting too in depth. One of the biggest turn offs for me for so many adoptables sites is the sheer quantity of content that's ludicrously difficult or sometimes literally just outright impossible for me, as a new user, to get. Sure, putting prizes in the market lowers the """""specialness""""", but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere for when something is just too special, and in my opinion, not only have prizes (proportionately to the availability of other dragons in dc, at least) crossed that line, they bolted past it and didn't look back.

The only sentiment I'm going to have to strongly speak against is the "2 years of shards" proposal. I think it should be one year at most, much more ideally half a year because we have two different prizes to account for. A special anniversary present or two for dedicating a whole year to a funny pixel dragon game. As someone who has scroll goals not unlike most people's - 2 cb of each (I'm personally actually aiming for 4 of each but that many cb prizes is unrealistic with or without this hypothetical market egg) - I do not want to have to play dc for 12 years just to get a full set of one of the prizes. I can't even know that dc will still be around in 12 years. 6 years of dedication and buying nothing else from the market for 12 prizes seems completely reasonable to me. You put in the work, you get rewarded, none of this rng business except as a fun way to shave some of that time and work off for a lucky few.

[FiveSix]

I started reading this thread expecting to hate the idea but actually those on the OP's side have me convinced; I think 6 months to a year worth of shards for a random prize (maybe pick between Eastern and Western), would be a pretty effective way of making CB prizes obtainable without losing their special status.

[Zeditha]

On 11/27/2018 at 7:33 AM, ObsessedWithCats said:

I started reading this thread expecting to hate the idea but actually those on the OP's side have me convinced; I think 6 months to a year worth of shards for a random prize (maybe pick between Eastern and Western), would be a pretty effective way of making CB prizes obtainable without losing their special status.

 

A personal no on buying a random prize. A large part of the reason so many people want Prizes in the market is so that you can just outright pick what Prize you want, no 'aww, I wanted X colour, but I got Y...' which I can see very quickly becoming a large complaint.

 

Given that a CB Gold takes a year, that should definitely be the minimum price. Anywhere 1-2 years seems good to me. To those saying it's still too long... There do seem to be an equal number of people feeling that 2 years is still way too low. And if we have them in the market at all, high price or low, then it's a long-term goal that can be worked towards. If it takes you 12 years to collect your scroll goals, then that's an incentive for people to keep playing, coming back, for that long - and an incentive on TJ to keep the site going that long!  

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 hour ago, Zeditha said:

Given that a CB Gold takes a year, that should definitely be the minimum price. Anywhere 1-2 years seems good to me. To those saying it's still too long... There do seem to be an equal number of people feeling that 2 years is still way too low. And if we have them in the market at all, high price or low, then it's a long-term goal that can be worked towards. If it takes you 12 years to collect your scroll goals, then that's an incentive for people to keep playing, coming back, for that long - and an incentive on TJ to keep the site going that long!  

 

I don't think that TJ would support something that takes 12 years given he's not even willing to support a 5000 dragon trophy. 

[Ruby Eyes]

It's "only" 12 years if you want one of each type and colour, for 2 years per Prize. If you just want one altogether, you'd be done after 2 years.

Personally, I'd prefer something like 15 to 20 months or so ...

[Dragon_Arbock]

That still seems like an awful long time, but I haven't actually done the calcs for how long a gold with take- I guess you get 100 per week.. so 39 weeks, I don't think a prize should cost more than twice a gold, so at most 78 weeks. Guess that would be around 15 months, but jeez, 12 years to get a m/f pair of  all is painful. I don't think each rarity of prize should have the same price, since they're not given out all in the same numbers

Edited November 28, 2018 by Dragon_Arbock

[DragonLady86]

I would take the two years, but don't think it needs to be that high, and would actually prefer it to be lower.  If golds are supposed to be the rarest dragon they should also be the most expensive dragon.

[Ruby Eyes]

3 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

If golds are supposed to be the rarest dragon they should also be the most expensive dragon.

Good point! So could Gold Prizes equal Golds (currently 3900), and Silver and Bronze Prizes slightly less (e.g. 3700 and 3500, respectively)?

[Dragon_Arbock]

That would be well and good if the market didn't currently have magmas also worth more than golds. I think it's based on ratios somehow, so that would need to be fixed.

[Ruby Eyes]

Chicken is currently 5000. Could that be the maximum?

[DragonLady86]

it's the 5k chicken that gets me. o.O

 

[JavaTigress]

On 10/14/2018 at 9:34 PM, sorenna said:

 

Thanks!  I feel like it preserves the "prize" aspect of Prize dragons, while still opening up their availability a little. 

 

I figured the ratios would probably be the same as the raffle - the ratio of 15 Bronze Eastern:15 Bronze Western:10:Silver Eastern:10 Silver Western:5 Gold Eastern:5 Gold Western (so your odds of a Bronze Eastern are 15/60=1/4, Bronze Western 1/4, Silver Eastern 1/6, Silver Western 1/6, Gold Eastern 1/12, and Gold Western 1/12) - but naturally TJ could set it to anything he likes and feels would maintain the balance of the odds!    There might even be some kind of "wild card" included in the shuffle that means you can't get a prize that day? "You close your eyes and point to an egg quickly.  ...Wait, that's not an egg, it's just a rock!  You leave the market for the day, embarrassed." 

 

I do feel that Prize dragons should be prizes!  I also feel that a prize with incredibly low odds of winning is less of a prize and more of a disappointment.  Asking someone to fail at something for 1-2 years before they can try another route is enough; their only option shouldn't be continuing to throw away effort on the tiny odds.

Uggggh, no, just NO!

 

For me,personally, a 'wildcard' like that would RUIN the whole point of having them in the market for me.

 

The great thing about the raffle is that it really doesn't COST anything to enter ( Other than the time spent raising my dragons which I would likely DO ANYWAY). I would HATE the idea that I might save up for months, YEARS maybe, for the chance to BUY a prize, drop all those shards only to get NOTHING for my time and trouble. So please, no, don't turn it into a gamble which would spoil the purpose of the whole suggestion. IF I save up to buy a  prize, I'd prefer it be a guaranteed thing when I part with that many shards, rqather than turning t into an expensive lottery ticket.

 

I would probably be MORE inclined to turn in my shards for something DEFINITE ( A Shiny CB gold, perhaps!) rather than that if it were implemented that way.

 

 

At LEAST with the raffle, while I know winning isn't guaranteed ( And nor should it be, necessarily) I can reasonably try again every month ( Or at least MOST months) without it setting me back on YEARS worth of carefully saved shards.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Sylph264]

16 minutes ago, JavaTigress said:

Uggggh, no, just NO!

 

For me,personally, a 'wildcard' like that would RUIN the whole point of having them in the market for me.

 

The great thing about the raffle is that it really doesn't COST anything to enter ( Other than the time spent raising my dragons which I would likely DO ANYWAY). I would HATE the idea that I might save up for months, YEARS maybe, for the chance to BUY a prize, drop all those shards only to get NOTHING for my time and trouble. So please, no, don't turn it into a gamble which would spoil the purpose of the whole suggestion. IF I save up to buy a  prize, I'd prefer it be a guaranteed thing when I part with that many shards, rqather than turning t into an expensive lottery ticket.

 

I would probably be MORE inclined to turn in my shards for something DEFINITE ( A Shiny CB gold, perhaps!) rather than that if it were implemented that way.

 

 

At LEAST with the raffle, while I know winning isn't guaranteed ( And nor should it be, necessarily) I can reasonably try again every month ( Or at least MOST months) without it setting me back on YEARS worth of carefully saved shards.

 

 

The spinner idea does not force you to buy anything. You're spinning for the chance to purchase something available on the spinner. You spin and it lands on a gold shimmer? Great! Now you can buy it, if you have the shards and if you want to. You spin and it lands on a rock? Tough luck, spin again tomorrow for the chance to be able to buy something else. At no point do you ever part with your shards without getting something. 

 

I'm not even sure I like the spinner idea, though it's one of the best ideas this thread has produced, but I wonder if there would be massive outrage about "wasting" shards on a purchased prize if this ever came to pass due to this consistent misunderstanding.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Sylph264

[HeatherMarie]

I don't like the spinner idea simply because it's completely different then anything else in the Market. If Prizes are ever going to be added to the Market, then ADD THEM TO THE MARKET. Don't make this whole unnecessarily complicated 'spinner' with a *chance* of getting something that kind of defeats the entire purpose of the MARKET. You go to the Market, you look for an egg you want, if you have enough shards you can buy the egg. I see no reason to make it so complicated and annoying just because Prizes are 'meant to be prizes'. Especially considering they WEREN'T ORIGINALLY RANDOM at all. People argue against the Market because Prizes are supposed to be raffle luck stuff, but *originally* Prizes were *won* by getting people to vote for your decorated Christmas tree. It wasn't a game of chance at all. People seem to conveniently forget that. 

 

Honestly, I'm at a point where I'd rather they *not* be added to the Market, if it will require all this jumping through hoop crap. You can only buy this-or-that, you have to spin just to get a *chance*, etc etc etc... No thanks. The whole point of putting them in the Market is so we *don't* have to jump through unnecessary hoops (ie the raffle). 

[Nove NuVonde]

I think comparing golds to prizes is a little apple and orange-y. The thing about golds is that you can, theoretically, get them at any time from the cave. Buying a gold in the market is essentially skipping the effort of hunting for them in exchange for a different kind of effort. There is no such equivalence for prizes. There is no current effort in getting them outside of remembering to click a button once a month and praying. It's also not even close to as hard as it would be for prizes to get a full set of golds, if they were the same price. And yes, it's true that you don't technically need a full set of prizes, but you don't technically need anything in DC. However, making prizes take more than a year to get is unfairly punishing to people who don't want to play in such a minimalist way.

 

I think a lot of people are really underestimating just how long a year is. DC itself has been around for roughly 12 years (13? On mobile and don't feel like looking up). How many people from allllll the way back then are still playing? Some, I'm sure, but I doubt the core playerbase of DC is people who have been playing since the early-mid 2000's. I mean heck, 12 years is longer than half the time a lot of players have been alive, myself included. If you only want one of each, or would be happy with just one prize, that's great! But that's not everybody, and in fact, very many people want full sets of each breed, prizes included.

 

I don't have much to say against the spinner idea that hasn't already been said. I'm with the people saying it's unnecessarily complicating and is trying too hard to preserve the rng component, which is the exact part so many people vehemently hate.

[Fuzzbucket]

37 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Honestly, I'm at a point where I'd rather they *not* be added to the Market, if it will require all this jumping through hoop crap. You can only buy this-or-that, you have to spin just to get a *chance*, etc etc etc... No thanks. The whole point of putting them in the Market is so we *don't* have to jump through unnecessary hoops (ie the raffle). 

 

This, very much. Set a high price, but jut add them. Two years of shards is fine by me, though I'd prefer 18 months.

[JavaTigress]

3 hours ago, Sylph264 said:

 

The spinner idea does not force you to buy anything. You're spinning for the chance to purchase something available on the spinner. You spin and it lands on a gold shimmer? Great! Now you can buy it, if you have the shards and if you want to. You spin and it lands on a rock? Tough luck, spin again tomorrow for the chance to be able to buy something else. At no point do you ever part with your shards without getting something. 

 

I'm not even sure I like the spinner idea, though it's one of the best ideas this thread has produced, but I wonder if there would be massive outrage about "wasting" shards on a purchased prize if this ever came to pass due to this consistent misunderstanding.

Thanks for the clarification on this if I was misunderstanding.

I would be LESS opposed to it if the shards are ONLY taken if you successfully roll a prize. At said, I am still not SOLD on the concept, either.

 

As others have said, part of the whole 'let's have them in the market' thing is to bypass some the jumping through hoops that the raffle involves and only for a CHANCE.

 

IF we have to jump through hoops anyway, and even then aren't guaranteed to get it.... we may as well just have the raffle.

 

A spinner would very quickly become as annoying as summon.  I think any number of peeps on here can tell stories about THAT.

I personally feel that IF they are added to the market it should be like all the other dragons... pay your price and get your dragon, that simple.

 

The price for a CB shimmer or tinsel would be set high, of course ( AND that is pretty much expected).... but here is the secret.... I'd save up and PAY it if it meant I was guaranteed to actually get a shimmer scale. That would be absolutely worth EVERY shard I would spend on it, IMO... AND if you happen to win one in the raffle, meanwhile? Great! You can spend your saved up shards on something else! NOT an issue either. IF the concern is for the ratios of the colors.... perhaps the colors could be priced differently? ( gold shimmers are a different price than silver or bronze, for INSTANCE?)

 

We don't have to jump through extra hoops if we choose to purchase a CB gold, for instance... providing we have the shards, that is!

It seems silly that prizes should involve such in the market when nothing else does.

Edited November 28, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Guillotine]

My beef with making Prizes take longer than a year is that getting even a single sprite of each color would take 6 years, and DC's only been around for 12. It would be more acceptable if the raffle winnings were larger, but they aren't.

 

I think 6-9 months is fine; it still takes work, but getting every sprite would only take 3-5? years, which is much more reasonable.
 

[Forever_Monee]

1 hour ago, JavaTigress said:

As others have said, part of the whole 'let's have them in the market' thing is to bypass some the jumping through hoops that the raffle involves and only for a CHANCE.

 

IF we have to jump through hoops anyway, and even then aren't guaranteed to get it.... we may as well just have the raffle.

 

A spinner would very quickly become as annoying as summon.  I think any number of peeps on here can tell stories about THAT.

I personally feel that IF they are added to the market it should be like all the other dragons... pay your price and get your dragon, that simple.

...

We don't have to jump through extra hoops if we choose to purchase a CB gold, for instance... providing we have the shards, that is!

It seems silly that prizes should involve such in the market when nothing else does.

I agree with this 100%. I honestly like the silver shimmers the best out of all the prizes and I would rather save up my shards for that color specifically. I don't want to keep having to re-roll if I keep getting the unwanted colors of bronze or gold.

[olympe]

The fact remains that the spinner won't do anything to help the ratios, as it's intended to do, because people will simply spin again the next day, and the next - until, finally, they spin the color they want. So, it's nothing but another piece of annoying stuff made up for annoyance's sake only.

 

Which leaves pricing for differently colored prizes - which is okay, considering the ratios with which they're handed out. Of course, this might mean (in an extreme case) that a golden prize costs three times as much as a bronze... not ideal, but still better than nothing.

 

Personally, I'm fine with saving up for a year or even two for a single CB prize. The situation would still be far from ideal, but it would enable us to trade for other 2nd gens for lineage purposes, so it's an acceptable compromise for me.

[JavaTigress]

28 minutes ago, Forever_Mone said:

I agree with this 100%. I honestly like the silver shimmers the best out of all the prizes and I would rather save up my shards for that color specifically. I don't want to keep having to re-roll if I keep getting the unwanted colors of bronze or gold.

This is a good point BECAUSE so far as I know,even IF ( A BIG if, there, as well of us know!) you are lucky enough to win the raffle, it means you win a particular dragon ( Bronze shimmer or silver tinsel or what have you,for example...) and you don't get to CHOOSE. AFAIK that is an option even the raffle doesn't give you and it NEVER did! AND I, for one, would love it.

 

IF I am wrong about that a winner may correct me!

8 minutes ago, olympe said:

 

Which leaves pricing for differently colored prizes - which is okay, considering the ratios with which they're handed out. Of course, this might mean (in an extreme case) that a golden prize costs three times as much as a bronze... not ideal, but still better than nothing.

 

Personally, I'm fine with saving up for a year or even two for a single CB prize. The situation would still be far from ideal, but it would enable us to trade for other 2nd gens for lineage purposes, so it's an acceptable compromise for me.

AFAIK that is how the prices on what is already in the market are determined? Via the ratios, somehow?

Which is how we end up with wierdnesses in the pricing sometimes, akin to what you described? 

 

Seems like it would be a logical extension of the system we already have, if so.

 

NOT 'ideal', as you say,maybe.... but it sure looks like it ought to be workable,at least

Edited November 28, 2018 by JavaTigress

[olympe]

To me, being able to get a very limited number of CB prizes is akin to the scroll limits for CB holidays or GoNs. We don't have many, but we can trade the offspring for our own purposes.

[Keileon]

I'm... fairly neutral on this, actually.

 

A year ago I'd have been opposed to the idea (I mean we didn't even HAVE the market a year ago but you get the point), but right now I can easily see CB prizes going from anywhere between 5200 shards (a year's worth) to 10000 (almost two years). Seeing as (at this time) we can only get shards on our own, 100 per week, no exchanging with other players- AND there's other stuff to catch our interest before we reach that point, that seems more or less fair, imo.

[Belisar]

Collecting shards for 12 months and being able to buy a random prize would seem fine with me. Collecting shards for about 18 months and then being able to buy the very version you ever dreamt of - ooooh yes please! xD

It is still a hugeeffort and I'm sure it will not completely kill their tradeing value for those who already won in the raffles or even in the Christmas popularity contests right at the beginning. It would simply make this game a tinsy bit more enjoyable in its frustrating parts.