Suggestions for Sweets

[Rally Vincent]

1 minute ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

It doesn't  allow for 99% of players to have both. Eggs will only hatch alt on CB alt owners' scrolls; as always, they will turn pink on most. But alt owners can now have both colours. That affects only them, not the rest of us - the vast majority.

 

I didn't say > 99% can have both. I said > 99% cannot have both. And yes - it does affect those who cannot get both variants. An exclusion is an effect.

[noxlyx]

Can someone please clarify this for me:  but if an Alt swere owner breeds a Sweet and trades it with another Alt Sweet owner, would the offspring Alt or not?

 

Because from what I’ve read, and I can be grossly wrong on this, once and Alt baby is traded it will not Alt regardless of scroll.

 

IF this is the case, then... we’ll, I don’t know how this will force them to retire faster. I can kind of see how but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s unreasonable to suddenly up and retire the Alts entirely to revert things back to how it should’ve been when that ship has sailed.

[Siliskor]

Alt babies will still alt upon transfer to another alt scroll.Him.

[noxlyx]

In that case, I have 0 idea how all this is supposed to retire Alts any faster.

 

If babies don’t Alt after they are traded then, okay, theoretically this will allow them to slowly die out because the only way to ever get an Alt is if you breed it yourself and kept one of the babies you bred. You can’t have an Alt baby from anyone else’s Alt.

 

But if the baby still Alts on someone else’s scroll, then we’re just back to the way things are... but Alt owners can now have both versions if they abandon one of their Alts in favor of a Pink?

 

So now they can breed and trade both Pinks and Alts?

 

So... how does this even help Alts retire?

 

And thank you Skilisor for the clarification!

Edited February 15, 2018 by noxlyx

[Amazon_warrior]

It does slow their "spread" a bit because before if I as a Pink Sweet owner sent Siliskor (an Alt Sweet owner) offspring from my CB Sweetlings, they would have become Alt on the other scroll.  Now, however, they would stay Pink regardless.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Amazon_warrior

[noxlyx]

9 minutes ago, Amazon_warrior said:

It does slow their "spread" a bit because now, if I as a Pink Sweet owner sent Siliskor (an Alt Sweet owner) offspring from my CB Sweetlings, they would have become Alt on the other scroll.  Now, however, they would stay Pink regardless.

 

Ah okay, that makes sense. Thank you!

 

Whelp.

 

RIP gorgeous alternating lineages then because the only way those can happen would be between fellow Alt owners who chose both sprites.

 

EDIT

 

Wait, no, I’m wrong. RIP alternating lineages in general because Pinks can only produce Pinks now.

Edited February 15, 2018 by noxlyx

[LadyLoki]

1 hour ago, Tinibree said:

I have to admit I love this line.

 

I really hate the unfairness of letting previous alt-only owners get pinks while those of us with pinks can't get the alt. That is my issue with this whole thing.

 

I love the alt sweetling sprite but I accepted I'd never get one, the discussion around snow angels made me hopeful I might, but then for the alt owners to be able to get the pinks is a slap in the face to me.

 

As others have said, CB hollies used to be around 100, I'm sure that shot up this past winter, just because something is rare doesn't mean it always has to be.

 

If TJ is trying to preserve the original intent, he's beating a dead horse, he missed that chance years ago when alts started breeding alts. If it's spriter's wish, he should say so, ask her how she feels about it now, and then tell us that. It seems more probable that he can't get in contact with her, if that's the case than I feel it more accurate to assume she doesn't overly care about the site anymore. Maybe, he could revert them to the original behavior, and over the next year try to get in contact for her opinion, and come out next year and tell us the outcome of that. If he can't get in contact in a full year, its safe to assume she doesn't care and has been given ample chance to weigh in, so he could do whatever.

 

I think this pretty much sums up everything I've personally thought on the matter.

[Siliskor]

1 minute ago, noxlyx said:

 

Ah okay, that makes sense. Thank you!

 

Whelp.

 

RIP gorgeous alternating lineages then because the only way those can happen would be between fellow Alt owners who chose both sprites.

 

Actually, alternating lineages are dead because alts don't come from pinks anymore. This.

[noxlyx]

2 minutes ago, Siliskor said:

 

Actually, alternating lineages are dead because alts don't come from pinks anymore. This.

 

That is entirely my bad. >__< Ithoght at right after I pressed send and went back to edit immediately. But a visual always helps too to keep things straight! :3

 

Thank you.

[purplehaze]

It seems that a Sweetling baby will now follow the color of its father any time it lands on the scroll of an Alt Sweetling owner. Which means that I can never continue this lovely lineage that I picked up. https://dragcave.net/lineage/28hod  I bred him last year and passed the egg to a friend with pinks on her scroll, so that one grew up pink. But breeding hers for me as we had planned would have resulted in an egg that would have hatched pink also, and there is no way to get the blacks back in there with the way breeding works now. Lineage ruined.

Edited February 16, 2018 by purplehaze

[Verilidaine]

Thoughts after musing about this out loud with someone...

 

If the spriter is unavailable, what about polling the active alt sweetling users (the original recipients of a gift that has been changed with no notice 8 years later) about what they would want?  I'm sure most if not all would be more than happy if alts would start breeding true to any scroll.  And, yeah, for a few years they might be rare and valuable but 1) Multiclutches, all but one egg from every alt sweetling bred will go to the AP and 2) Can only breed once per year so it won't be like another prize dragon and 3) Every alt sweetling owner I have ever talked to doesn't want to use them as some huge trade advantage (and even if they did, so what...? That's already something that has been worked into DC trading economy...)

[Dragon_Arbock]

I still like the idea that makes them breed like Solstices. Breeding where depending on the time of day you get black sweets or pink sweets, regardless of the parents. That doesn't even ruin any lineages.

[Guillotine]

Yeah, and at least unlike Solstices we have the black egg sprite so you know immediately if you bred at the wrong time for a line.
 

[noxlyx]

33 minutes ago, Verilidaine said:

Thoughts after musing about this out loud with someone...

 

If the spriter is unavailable, what about polling the active alt sweetling users (the original recipients of a gift that has been changed with no notice 8 years later) about what they would want?  I'm sure most if not all would be more than happy if alts would start breeding true to any scroll.  And, yeah, for a few years they might be rare and valuable but 1) Multiclutches, all but one egg from every alt sweetling bred will go to the AP and 2) Can only breed once per year so it won't be like another prize dragon and 3) Every alt sweetling owner I have ever talked to doesn't want to use them as some huge trade advantage (and even if they did, so what...? That's already something that has been worked into DC trading economy...)

 

I definitely agree with all of this, and I feel like what we really need is for TJ to explain why is he putting original intent over current wants/needs.

 

As so many people have pointed out things change, times change, nothing ever stays the same. The ball already dropped. The milk has already been spilt. The mistake is already done. What should have been done eight years ago wasn't done, and the userbase as whole adapted to that mistake and were okay with it. We weren't happy, but we saw that it was "okay fair-ish" even if it wasn't a great or ideal station.

 

Then all of sudden... BAM! Time to retire these babies with no warning because originally they were never meant to breed true and were supposed to be like Spriter Alts.

 

Okay, cool, if we were to have discontinued this breeding habit that should've been nixed a year or two after the mistake was found. Why was it allowed to stay for so long? And why is TJ hell bent on keeping with what was originally supposed to happen but didn't? I get the addage of "better late than never" but that only really applies to positive changes that improves quality of life - the 8th egg slot, Trader's Canyon, etc. Better late than never shouldn't be applied to things that doesn't improve quality of life, and this whole Alt Sweet thing that happened? It doesn't just not improve quality of life, it just frustrates the userbase.

 

It's been eight years, and I do agree with users who are asking "why does the original intent matter today?" especially since many Alt Sweet owners don't care and are happy if other people got the sprites as well.

 

Again, if we're wishing to preserve the intent of the Spriter's sacrifice of their alt to the masses, then for me that's an acceptable answer because it is a moral or logical reason. Moral because he is acknowledging that he respects the original spriter's intent and sacrifice of their original Spriter alt. Logical because there might be some legal component behind this whole situation that we're not aware of. I don't know if the majority or minority of people are okay with that answer, but for some it is and I have no real argument against it. There might be legalese involved and I'm a psychology major, not a law major.

Edited February 16, 2018 by noxlyx

[blockEdragon]

I've got an idea that's a bit unorthodox and probably hasn't been pitched but could work.

 

Fix the difference by REMOVING the difference entirely, both alts and pinks could be one and the same.

They could make it a time based form change similar to Nocturnal Dragons and their stone forms, at night they would be black and during they day they would be pink.

No dependencies on other users, no fussing around with mechanics and methods to get yourself an alt, no one is left out of either sprite, and most lineages would be fine for the most part since all the sprites are uniform just swap at a certain time of day.

[Tini]

The issue with that is it ruins alternating lineages, which were incredibly hard to make.

 

And then all other lineages would only be right half the time which I guess isn't the worst thing. I don't hate the idea but I haven't been making these lineages so I don't think my opinion matters.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Tinibree

[Verilidaine]

Honestly, there is no way to make a change that doesn't ruin at least some lineages (except a day/night breeding perhaps).  Breeding true ruins alternating, the current "fix" ruins alternative, any kind of day/night all sprite behavior ruins lineages...

 

These projects have been developed for 8 years on a stable behavior pattern, you can't change it without upsetting some of them.

[cerimonster]

See, I don't like this idea personally simply because I like to have both sprites at the same time. And like Tinibree said, alternating lineages would be affected, but normal lineages too. Plus, this doesn't allow for those who like/dislike the sprites. Over all, I mean the idea is a good one, I'm just against it because I want to be able to see both sprites when I'm on.

[blockEdragon]

The lineages would only be "ruined" at certain times of day. (plus most lineages are fine as long as all the sprites are uniform, sure the colors change but they also change back so it's not like it's gone forever)

And no option will save EVERY lineage.

[Sir Barton]

2 hours ago, Guillotine said:

Yeah, and at least unlike Solstices we have the black egg sprite so you know immediately if you bred at the wrong time for a line.
 

The egg sprite has always been pink. You don't know the dragon is black until it hatches.

[Siliskor]

2 minutes ago, blockEdragon said:

The lineages would only be "ruined" at certain times of day. (plus most lineages are fine as long as all the sprites are uniform, sure the colors change but they also change back so it's not like it's gone forever)

And no option will save EVERY lineage.

 

My alternating lines have been destroyed, I'd rather not have lineages I've worked on for 5 years wrecked as well.

[Dragon_Arbock]

11 minutes ago, blockEdragon said:

The lineages would only be "ruined" at certain times of day. (plus most lineages are fine as long as all the sprites are uniform, sure the colors change but they also change back so it's not like it's gone forever)

And no option will save EVERY lineage.

 

Breeding at certain times of day would save every lineage. It's fairly simple.

 

Yeah I don't know if there ever was a different egg, but there really should be (should be for Solstice as well). at least with sweetlings you can tell when they hatch.. but not good enough.

[Tini]

16 minutes ago, blockEdragon said:

The lineages would only be "ruined" at certain times of day. (plus most lineages are fine as long as all the sprites are uniform, sure the colors change but they also change back so it's not like it's gone forever)

And no option will save EVERY lineage.

The breeding @ day/night would save EVERY lineage so long as its not applied retroactively (and it shouldn't be). There was also a thing where alt Hatchlings would retain their color when passed on, but if the egg wasn't hatched before it was traded it wouldn't. That would save all of them as well, though I'm not the biggest fan of that one I admit.

 

We got a mature hatchling sprite update for the solstice, I don't think we'll be getting an egg sprite. Pretty sure the solstice is set. Another way to tell is where it sorts among your christmas dragons, the rosy and blue don't mix in sorting so that's how I figured it out this last christmas.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Tinibree

[blockEdragon]

The main reason i'm weary of that idea is because of how awful solstice dragons are, I collected them last Christmas and it was just awful,It's almost impossible to tell when they where bred because they updated the mature hatchling sprite instead of the egg for some GoN forsaken reason and i'd worry that they'll do that again and only have the hatchies or adults turn black.

 

On the other than if fire gems can have marked eggs then maybe sweetlings won't have the solstice problem, and that would probably be better for the most lineages possible, though having to release my adult to get another egg will stink.

[TJ09]

13 hours ago, Brekke said:

What he can do is reply to our posts!

 

I'm struggling to figure out what reply is even wanted here. I keep seeing "but tell us WHY," when I already did. I've already explained why I think retiring is the best direction, and why alts aren't going to be released to the general public. And somehow I'm still seeing this:

 

14 hours ago, JavaTigress said:

a LOT of us would like to know WHY they need to be phased out at all?

 

On 2/14/2018 at 8:08 AM, Kelkelen said:

I'm still confused as to WHAT the problem is, WHY it's a problem

 

It's one thing to disagree with the explanation, but the explanation is out there. I've already said why. All I can guess at this point is people don't like what I said and assume there's some other reason I'm not giving—but I can assure everyone here there's not some ulterior motive. The reasoning you're looking for has been posted.