Suggestions for Sweets

[OMGitsKairi]

15 hours ago, TJ09 said:

[snip]

 

Outside of that, I have already addressed the topic of a non-CB release (e.g. in the form of alts breeding more alts). With such a limited base of CB dragons, availability of low-generation eggs would be super limited. Definitely way worse than prizes before regular raffles became a thing (there's fewer alt Sweetlings, *and* they only breed true once a year—multi-clutching helps a bit, but not enough).

[snip]

 

In terms of a non-CB release, alts breeding true was not the only suggestion people have come up with. One of 

my favourites so far was the time-based breeding mechanic, ie: Sweets bred during the day would be pink, and

Sweets bred at night would be black. With the mechanics already in place on other breeds, I feel like this would

be doable.

 

[geminia]

I too am kinda bummed about this. I finaly managed to grab a second gen from an alt sweetling this year , and it bugs me that it hatched pink. I think the best solution IMHO would be that the alts would breed true no matter on what scroll. That way we could all have both sprites, and still the people who where affected from the glitch 8 years ago , can still be the only ones with CB alts. I really do not get why do they have to be retired, why do they have to be SOOO limited, or why some people can have both sprites, and others just one. Seems like it's getting so complicated when it doesn't need to. Just let the sweets breed true no matter the scroll. Pink one gives pink offspring, alt one has alt offspring. Simple as that and everybody is happy 

[Brekke]

19 minutes ago, geminia said:

I too am kinda bummed about this. I finaly managed to grab a second gen from an alt sweetling this year , and it bugs me that it hatched pink. I think the best solution IMHO would be that the alts would breed true no matter on what scroll. That way we could all have both sprites, and still the people who where affected from the glitch 8 years ago , can still be the only ones with CB alts. I really do not get why do they have to be retired, why do they have to be SOOO limited, or why some people can have both sprites, and others just one. Seems like it's getting so complicated when it doesn't need to. Just let the sweets breed true no matter the scroll. Pink one gives pink offspring, alt one has alt offspring. Simple as that and everybody is happy 

Everybody but TJ, apparently...

[Verilidaine]

Having read through all of this, I have come to the conclusion of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  As an alt owner, I never wanted another "gift" like being able to have both sprites.  It isn't like they could breed true and be distributed, they were never some kind of trade fodder, and we've all created lineages based upon the old behavior.  This year has been an endless frustrating hunt for eggs with an alt father and finding lineages that would look so pretty alted and just... eh.

 

Mostly I just really miss my little alt hatchie army and collecting pretty ones every year.  Very little else about my scroll is even remotely special and I really treasured working on that collection (even the CB holly's value was nullified -- go figure ).

 

Is, "Go back to how it was before" a viable suggestion?

[SerasVahe]

I believe it's now clear that no matter what anyone sais, he is not going to change his mind (even though he changed his mind about his original "fix" this Valentine season, which honestly would have been a better option in my opinion, just rip the band-aid off). I hate the fact the Alt Sweetling had been my favorite sprite, even though I knew I could never obtain it, I was elated to collect lineages.

 

I don't normally bring up personal stuff, but I was gone Valentine 2010 because my brother was dying of bone cancer, my priorities at that point in my life were far from playing a game collecting pixels. Though in the aftermath, this game helped distract me from the depression that was consuming me entirely. This Holiday got me excited because I could finally collect everything I missed these past several years, but in the end all I have is a sour taste in my mouth from how this issue was handled. I feel for everyone on this site who was hurt by the decision.

 

I honestly don't even care anymore. Sad to see something like this go on for 8 years to be abruptly changed when it should have been fixed a long time ago. I honestly don't think I will stick around for anything Valentines related anymore.

 

I still wish the best for everyone and may everyone feel included in the love this holiday is meant to symbolize, single or not.

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by SerasVahe

[HawktalonOfRiverClan]

Has there been any response from Kila on the issue?

[AngesRadieux]

Just throwing in my own two cents.

Personally, I like the alt sprite way better. I caught my eggs in the first hour of the drop when sweetlings were released and was actually disappointed my eggs ended up not being taken by the glitch. But I, and at this point probably most people who ended up with pink dragons, accepted it. So, I think probably the most realistic option that would cause the least offense is to go back to the way things were. Was everyone thrilled over how things went with the alts? No. But it's been part of the mechanics of the game for so long now, that I think people had more or less come to accept it as an "it is what it is" kind of thing.

 

Also, not for anything, but I think part of the issue is the holiday itself. Valentine's Day is probably a little more polarizing than, say, Halloween. A ton of people hate Valentine's Day. I know I roll my eyes and get irritated with the pink vomit scattered all over every store from the middle of January until mid February, and feel a bit of relief on February 15th. So the idea of a dragon with a color scheme that's radically different from the stereotypical pink and red and is, in fact, more reflective of some of the more cynical feelings about the holiday, is really appealing. Anyway, I think in the future perhaps releasing a Valentine's Dragon with a similar color scheme, giving people who aren't really into the whole pink, heart shaped things everywhere theme might make the alts as a whole a little less contentious. For what it's worth I absolutely love the soul seeker dragon because it's a break from the usual color scheme. The Mutamores are a close second because, although they're pink, to me they look angry and ornery. This is kind of going off of what other people have said previously, about the alts being an especially contentious subject because they are so radically different from every other Valentine Dragon.

 

Anyway, I think leaving things as they used to be, and possibly the future release of another holiday dragon with a similar color scheme to the alts, that resonates with people who are a bit disgruntled about Valentine's Day would make most people reasonably happy. The original "gift" intention of the alts is preserved, lineages can continue as planned, and those who are a but grouchy about the holiday in general have a dragon that resonates with them instead of just looking longingly at one of the few unattainable sprites, which happens to be the only one which encapsulates an opinion about a fairly polarizing holiday.

[Kelkelen]

HOW is this change good?
WHAT does it fix?

WHO does it help?

(And "It fixes that they weren't super rare by making them super rare because they have to be super rare" isn't an answer unless we understand WHY they have to be.)

[darkmoore]

I'm pretty sure there have been alt owners who would have liked eggs from pinks to NOT alt on their scrolls as sure as non-alt owners would have loved an alt-offspring they knew they could never have. The point is, lineages will be ruined with the new system. Might as well make them breed true, that way since lineages will be ruined anyway, at least the disadvantage for non-alt users will be taken out. Less damage all around? Lineages still will be ruined, that's true, but at least everyone will be able to get both sprites on their scrolls. It also doesn't affect the fact that the original alt-owners will still be the only ones with CB alts. 

 

Personally I think the change has done nothing but ruin lineages and hurt feelings. 

[darkmoore]

5 minutes ago, Kelkelen said:

HOW is this change good?
WHAT does it fix?

WHO does it help?

(And "It fixes that they weren't super rare by making them super rare because they have to be super rare" isn't an answer unless we understand WHY they have to be.)

It HELPS users with alts because now they can have pure pink lineages as well as pure alt lineages as well as a lot of stuff in between. They get to have both sprites on their scrolls as opposed to the non-alt users who will never be able to obtain an alt. 

[stagazer_7]

While I don't like the way things are being handled now, I like the idea of creating yet another Prize Dragon situation by having alt Sweetlings breed true by a constantly dwindling alt owner populace even less - this will only lead to more chaos as everyone and their dog will be trying to get their hands on an alt of their own or try to find a mate for them. That is why I agree with TJ that this is not a good way to handle this (it took years to finally get to a point we are now and have new Prize dragons trickling among the playerbase every month and they can still cost a small fortune).

 

Among the pitched ideas I liked the reintroduction of CB Sweetlings as part of a Single Awareness Day best as the idea is very cute. Or any other way to introduce CB Sweetlings among the playerbase or a BSA that could influence eggs/hatchies (definitely not adult dragons, even without offspring). Anything that retroactively changes the way Sweetlings behave  (such as BSA that would make adults alt or turn pink) or the aforementioned 'Sweetlings breed true on all scrolls, but only some own CB's' gets a firm NO from me.

 

But since any of the pitched good ideas are unlikely to be implemented, I have no idea how TJ is going to find a solution to make things better - because now I don't believe a single player is happy, alt and non-alt owners alike. Nobody wins this way. And going back to the way things were is... well, kind of lame. Why mess with the system if there were no plans to improve the game anyway? Introducing anything super rare and niche in this type of game is not likely to be met with rounds of applause. Sorry, I hope I didn't come out too harsh, I can only imagine how challenging creating a balanced game must be, but any changes of this sort have never been accepted well (Prize raffle drama, upside-down Mint drama etc.), so I really don't see why these decisions are being made time and time again and have players bickering over them over and over... seems kind of pointless.

Edited February 15, 2018 by stagazer_7

[drabrugon]

I would really love to see Kelkelen's questions answered.....at the moment it still feels like a unnecessary step backwards.

[darkmoore]

11 minutes ago, stagazer_7 said:

While I don't like the way things are being handled now, I like the idea of creating yet another Prize Dragon situation by having alt Sweetlings breed true by a constantly dwindling alt owner populace even less - this will only lead to more chaos as everyone and their dog will be trying to get their hands on an alt of their own or try to find a mate for them. That is why I agree with TJ that this is not a good way to handle this (it took years to finally get to a point we are now and have new Prize dragons trickling among the playerbase every month and they can still cost a small fortune).

 

Among the pitched ideas I liked the reintroduction of CB Sweetlings as part of a Single Awareness Day best as the idea is very cute. Or any other way to introduce CB Sweetlings among the playerbase or a BSA that could influence eggs/hatchies (definitely not adult dragons, even without offspring). Anything that retroactively changes the way Sweetlings behave  (such as BSA that would make adults alt or turn pink) or the aforementioned 'Sweetlings breed true on all scrolls, but only some own CB's' gets a firm NO from me.

 

But since any of the pitched good ideas are unlikely to be implemented, I have no idea how TJ is going to find a solution to make things better - because now I don't believe a single player is happy, alt and non-alt owners alike. Nobody wins this way. And going back to the way things were is... well, kind of lame. Why mess with the system if there were no plans to improve the game anyway? Introducing anything super rare and niche in this type of game is not likely to be met with rounds of applause. Sorry, I hope I didn't come out too harsh, I can only imagine how challenging creating a balanced game must be, but any changes of this sort have never been accepted well (Prize raffle drama, upside-down Mint drama etc.), so I really don't see why these decisions are being made time and time again and have players bickering over them over and over... seems kind of pointless.

I thought re-releasing Alt Sweetlings was out of the question? Also ... if the bred true, wouldn't all those lineages with a black sweetling in them breed blacks, not just the CBs? That way there would be a lot more alt sweetlings around not just second gens...

Edited February 15, 2018 by darkmoore

[stagazer_7]

1 minute ago, darkmoore said:

I thought re-releasing Alt Sweetlings was out of the question?

Yeah, sadly I think it is. I just stated which ideas I liked. This is why I don't see any way this situation can be salvaged, it's like opening a can of worms... not pretty.

[darkmoore]

1 minute ago, stagazer_7 said:

Yeah, sadly I think it is. I just stated which ideas I liked. This is why I don't see any way this situation can be salvaged, it's like opening a can of worms... not pretty.

I agree. Which is why I thought that - now that no-one is really happy - the whole "alts breed alts" would be a manageable way. Cause then not only the CB alts would breed alts but the higher gens as well which would increase the alt population rather quickly seeing they throw multi-clutches. I mean sure a second gen alt would probably be valuable for a while but getting ANY alt at all should not be that big of an issue with higher gens being around?

[Ruby Eyes]

If we start comparing Sweetlings to Prizes ...

 

... add CB alt Sweetlings to the monthly Prize pool, as an opt-in ... up to 2 per scroll, and in addition to regular pink Sweetlings, starting February 2019 so that everyone gets to start with possibly 4 Sweetlings (2 pink, 2 alt) at the same time - except that the "old" owners already have their share of alts and only need to pick their pink ones from the cave, if they want any.

 

(And then you can allow any bred hatchies to pick their colour, I suppose.)

[laertid]

I'm strongly against "alts breed alts" situation, considering they only breed once a year and there is a very small pool of the alt owners. It'll be the Prize problem all around again, another rare trade-me-anything dragon. And it'll make that small pool of people - who are ALREADY super special by having two colours of sweetlings instead of one, mind you! - even more privileged and able to receive practically anything in return for the 2nd gen alt. Not. Fair. At. All.

 

No, please. Anything but that.

 

(I don't blame Alt owners, I blame the problem itself, it's not their fault. Apologize if I sounded offensive to them.)

[darkmoore]

35 minutes ago, laertid said:

I'm strongly against "alts breed alts" situation, considering they only breed once a year and there is a very small pool of the alt owners. It'll be the Prize problem all around again, another rare trade-me-anything dragon. And it'll make that small pool of people - who are ALREADY super special by having two colours of sweetlings instead of one, mind you! - even more privileged and able to receive practically anything in return for the 2nd gen alt. Not. Fair. At. All.

 

No, please. Anything but that.

 

(I don't blame Alt owners, I blame the problem itself, it's not their fault. Apologize if I sounded offensive to them.)

Well, true, they only breed once a year and you said it yourself - the alt owners already HAVE the advantage of getting to have both colors. If alts bred alts then the pool of alts would increase vastly, allowing for a multiplying amount of alts each time they are bred because there are higher gens who breed alts as well and they throw multi clutches. It's the only viable way I see to allow everyone to have both colors on their scroll seeing CB alts were ruled out? But I totally get where you are coming from regarding the rarity of it all. However it would at least take care of the injustice regarding being able to have both colors on one scroll. 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Like @laertid said, I’m not very fond of the idea of alt sweets becoming the new hollies / prizes. I mean, I would take the availability of bred alts over nothing... but I would much rather have CBs around. I still don’t see a good reason not to do it.

[JavaTigress]

24 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Like @laertid said, I’m not very fond of the idea of alt sweets becoming the new hollies / prizes. I mean, I would take the availability of bred alts over nothing... but I would much rather have CBs around. I still don’t see a good reason not to do it.

This. Thing is, @TJ09 , we UNDERSTAND that you feel the alts'd be better off retired. What most of us would like to understand is WHY you feel that way? And why now?

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Brekke]

This thread was full of good, meaty discussion yesterday.  TJ was here last night, he posted in a couple of other threads.  But he couldn't take 5 minutes to post--"interesting ideas--this and that might work, that one won't" or whatever.  Folks talk about threads going off the rails around here--but the fact is, they go off the rails because they get to a good point for TJ or a mod to say something...crickets chirp...and people start repeating arguments, etc.  It's not my imagination, is it?  TJ posted in a couple threads, but not this one despite a number of excellent posts.  Just a "can't make a decision now, but here's what I think about your comments so far" post would do.  If there's one guy at the top with all the power, and he won't talk to us, what hope is there for a good solution?

[Guillotine]

It's not your imagination. 
 

[Fuzzbucket]

Indeed it isn't. I really thought we were getting somewhere...

[Sazandora]

I do remember him saying something about how busy he'll be on the 15th, which is today...

But to stay on topic, I still think don't think it's a good idea to basically raise Sweetling limits to 4 just so that we could get CB alts. Other valentines have a CB limit of 2, so why Sweetlings should be given special treatment? To me the alt Sweets would need some major reworking for this to work, as right now they're just not unique enough to be wholly separate from the pink Sweets. They both have the exact same breed description and set of sprites (minus the color palette, of course). I know we already have Luminas and Dark Luminas, but hey -- those two are as different as night and day.

 

I'm not against non-alt owners getting alt Sweets, not at all. It'd certainly be a welcome break from the tradition of us getting eye-searingly pink valentine dragons every year. But if alt Sweets were to be released as their own thing, they need some serious reworking to make them more different from regular Sweetlings.

[Painter]

Yes, alt Sweets were originally meant to be a Spriter's Alt.

But they aren't that any more.

Just because something was originally made one way, doesn't mean that it's purpose and people's perceptions of it can't change over time.

Continuing to treat them as would-be Spriter's Alts is unnecessary, they aren't that anymore. They're sprites available to the general populace. Why not acknowledge that things have changed as time has passed, and treat them no different as any other alt sprite, like Ridgewings, Enraged Aegis, etc. (I'm not saying the mechanic of getting them should model those. I'm just suggesting that clearly the issue lies with not being able to view them differently. To TJ, they have been and always will be, basically, Spriter Alts. But they stopped being that the day they were given out to regular users.)

I guess there is nothing to do really, except hope that TJ can eventually see it from this perspective. Life really just isn't that rigid. Things can change purpose over time. It's okay. It doesn't mean we lose the respect for alt Sweetlings or the gesture Kila made -- it just means that they evolved to make more sense in the DC world, and more people get to enjoy the gesture and enjoy that part of the game as a result. Changing things doesn't diminish the original purpose of them at all. You can appreciate the way something was done in the past, while still acknowledging that it doesn't work for the present.