Fixing the Current CB Prize System

[Yubelchen]

As KrazyKarp said: An sorta Archievement system would be awesome!

It would give you something to work on and it could favor breeds that many people usually dont hoard (commons), so there could be 'Have 1000 Spitfire Dragons' or 'Breed any two holiday dragons together' or 'Create an Hybrid' or 'Successful hatch an egg with the BSA 'Earthquake' '

There are so many options and it would be interesting to see what is possible, damn, i would end up as an archievment hunter for sure.

 

A store would be great too, sure, it would beat the 'Free to Play' system we have currently, but to be honest: Its for dragons you could win in a raffle AND you would support DC as a whole, i think it would be nice to get some money to pay the power bill of the server for sure (TJ & Staff and Server/s, you are awesome!). One could see it as a donation.

 

An idea i also have: How about winners are not allowed in the next raffles?

But i would make it depending what you won.

Bronze: You cannot enter the next raffle. OR You cannot win a bronze Prize the next raffles.

Silver: You cannot enter the next two raffles. OR You cannot win a silver Prize the next two raffles.

Gold: You cannot enter the next three raffles. OR You cannot win a gold Prize the next three raffles.

 

So such things as winning 3 times in a row cant happening and those who didnt wonn have a higher chance of winning next time!

[olympe]

Why not combine the trophy idea with the anniversary idea? 

You get a bronze/silver/gold tinsel whenever your trophy level increases and a CB dragon of your choice when you reach platinum.

You get a bronze/silver/gold shimmer on your first/second/third anniversary, and a CB dragon of your choice every anniversary thereafter. (Maybe - just maybe - add that you'll have to have entered at least 6 raffles during that time as a kind-of activity check?)

 

Of course, I'd also totally dig the store as detailed in the respective suggestion. (no real-life money, no grinding, no player-to-player interaction)

[LadyLyzar]

I'm actually surprised that the pancakes made it into this discussion.  They were made for a former staff member as a joke because many people misread his name and called him Draco Pancake.  It would not make sense for anyone else to have them.

 

If I remember right, the <3 and X D eggs (go away smiley) are test eggs.  Again, users do not need these.

 

I do not see the CB prizes as an issue any longer with the release of so many per raffle. When it was once a year - yes that was an issue, because they were so extremely limited that it caused issues.  Now it's not nearly so bad anymore. 

 

That being said, I would like to see additional ways to obtain rare dragons through regular gameplay, but make it fairly difficult to do so - these are supposed to be prizes, after all.

[Dragon_Arbock]

To the people saying the raffle is fine because spriter's alts are things we can never have either- I don't really like the idea of spriter's alts either, but at least 1, a spriter's alt is a variation of a dragon we can get CB, and 2, they did technically earn them by doing a service for DC.

Same to thuweds- the only thing special about most thuweds is the name. If I never get a 2nd gen thuwed, I won't care.

 

But CB prizes of any variation are only a dream for most of us. I can't make a Tinsel checker- I don't have a Prize,  and I don't have the catching skills or luck to have CB gold eggs on hand, because that's pretty much the only thing you can trade for them. Prizes would have been one thing if they couldn't breed, but 2nd gens have way too much trading power- and it's all almost anyone with anything rare will ask for. No otherwise normal user should have been given, by random chance and nothing more, something that 'prints money'.

 

And the raffle entry fee is way too low. It's so low it's super easy to multi-account to get one. Yes, you can't trade the prize if one of your multi-accounts get it, but you can trade the offspring, and anything you trade the offspring for, to your 'main'.

 

And comparing Prizes to the lottery- you don't win special money in a lottery you can't get anywhere else. It's normal money, it's just more money. This is a special dragon. You can't currently earn this dragon like you can money. Luck is your only option.

[HeatherMarie]

I can see both sides of the issue here, but I do think that Prize attainability is so completely *different* then *all* other dragons on DC and maybe that's part of why so many people don't like how it is right now. With the exception of joke things and Spriter's Alts, you can *earn* or *work towards* pretty much every single dragon in the entire game... If you aren't fast enough to catch CB Golds you can trade for them, which often simply includes gathering lots of uncommon hatchlings to trade. Sinos are a pain to get because you have to collect tons of Zyus in order to summon them, but you can *work* for them and eventually get them (same with GoNs). Alts are a crapshoot based totally on luck, but again you have the ability to actually *work* towards those, hatching tons and tons of eggs in order to get one, and if you just aren't lucky enough you can again trade for one.

 

CB Prizes are the *only* dragon in the entire cave that you can *only* get through a completely luck-based raffle. You can't work towards it, you can't trade for it. You can spend every single day on DC for an entire year and have no better chance of getting one. In a game that is, at it's simple core, a *collecting* game, having the only way to *collect* something be by sheer luck is very frustrating. I honestly think that's one of the biggest issues here, is that it's just random stupid luck. No one has a better chance, no one can *do* anything to increase their chances. When you can't do a darn thing to influence the outcome, it can make you feel rather helpless and frustrated. 

 

That's why I very much support a way of getting CB Prizes that are tied to something you can actually do. I don't really care what that something is. 

 

Full disclosure, I'm not a CB-inclined player and I really don't give a crap if I ever win a CB Prize (although I would like to in order to gift 2nd-gens). But just because I don't personally have a stake in this doesn't mean I don't have thoughts about it.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Maybe we can keep the low entry requirements for the raffle but also add ways to gain additional tickets. 10 dragons raised = extra ticket? Or monthly different requirements, like “use precognition 5 times,” “breed 10 eggs,” “freeze 3 dragons.” Some months could have harder challenges and some very easy. One month it’s “make a Neglected,” next it’s “raise a Red dragon.”  

 

Anniversary and trophy rewards sound nice too.

 

Although all of the above said, I’m still most in favor of a store, because it would solve so many other problems as well (letting users who’ve played for years but never managed to catch a CB metal finally earn one, let you pick up that annoying common you just can’t find in the caves... heck, maybe cooler stuff like CB Alts / Hybrids or unique codes too!)

Edited January 5, 2018 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Paradisiske]

1 hour ago, LadyLyzar said:

I'm actually surprised that the pancakes made it into this discussion.  They were made for a former staff member as a joke because many people misread his name and called him Draco Pancake.  It would not make sense for anyone else to have them.

i just feel with the way you stated this that he didnt actually need the sprite. oh so people misread his name and he gets a totally unique sprite out of it no one else can have. by that logic what about other users who get their name misread? should they get a totally unique sprite out of it as well? no because that is utterly ridiculous and hassle to create and a waste of time. hence why the pancakes shouldnt exist and should either be deleted or released into the wild. because the user in question didnt do anything to earn them like spriters alts. they just had their username misread by people. 

 

 

im more than okay with having additional ways to get raffle tickets that would be cool. 

[purplehaze]

I don't even know why pancakes and such are an issue here. They have existed almost since the beginning of the site. We have always known that they were there and it was just a part of the quirkiness of the game. Now all of a sudden, in a discussion about something totally different, everyone gets their nose out of joint about those little quirks? Because, if I can't have it no one should? Anything else I can say at this point will probably get me warned, so I am just going to shut up now.

[Dragon_Arbock]

9 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

i just feel with the way you stated this that he didnt actually need the sprite. oh so people misread his name and he gets a totally unique sprite out of it no one else can have. by that logic what about other users who get their name misread? should they get a totally unique sprite out of it as well? no because that is utterly ridiculous and hassle to create and a waste of time. hence why the pancakes shouldnt exist and should either be deleted or released into the wild. because the user in question didnt do anything to earn them like spriters alts. they just had their username misread by people. 

 

Pancakes is a harmless joke.. it can't breed or be used for any sort of advantage.

(you want a pancakes so badly go use a script to replace the image of your leetle tree).

 

Order of preference;

Trophies -> Anniversary -> Store

[Paradisiske]

@purplehaze

 

this issue that i have is not one of quirkiness. it is the fact that this is a collecting game and exclusives will always not be cool especially if the person didnt win them in a raffle or earn them like spriters alts. i am trying to say that the person who got the pancakes simply got them because people misread their username. is that a good reason to get an exclusive sprite? no otherwise all of us should have a unique sprite based off our usernames.

 

prize dragons were introduced in what 2010? as prizes for a contest. one that i heard many people begged and cheated to get votes so that their tree or wreath would win. thats how they were introduced when the game was only a couple years old. should they have stayed that way? as prizes for a contest? no. the raffles were adapted and now we have monthly rng based raffles. 

 

@Dragon_Arbock

it is still a sprite in this game. an exclusive sprite. in a collecting based game. 

 

[Dragon_Arbock]

@CellyBean Many of us who put time into this collection-based game care about lineages. that's why CB prizes are such a sticking point. I don't care so much that someone has an ages-old joke on their scroll. I care that I have a bunch of cruddy-lined prizes and can never even dream of breeding an even-gen checker Prize. It's not just the sprite, it's what can be done with the sprite. The fact that I didn't even know pancakes existed before today should show how unimportant pancakes is compared to a breedable, tradable functioning thing in the game that has messed up trading and playing for a lot of users.

[LadyLyzar]

It wasn't a "need", it was a silly thing that TJ did as a joke between friends in the site's early days.  If I remember right, he actually hated it when people called him Draco Pancake.  No more, no less.  They don't breed or do anything else and give absolutely zero advantage in the game.  Giving them to everyone makes zero sense because of their origin.  I'd honestly quite forgotten about them until they were mentioned here.

 

One of my Heartseekers has the code Lyzar.  I didn't ask for that - TJ did it to be nice.  (I think it's absolutely hilarious since Heartseekers are all male - that's why his name is Banner of the Lady.)  So by the logic of the pancakes, since I received an unexpected gift, TJ now has to give everyone the ability to give one of their dragons a special code.  Except that my Heartseeker, although he is an alt, gains zero advantage in the game by having a special code.  He's as much of a brat when breeding as his brother.

 

That being said, a CB prize is absolutely no different in appearance than a horribly inbred prize with no pretty lineage to speak of.  The sprites are identical.  As such, I don't think that collecting sprites is really the issue here.

[purplehaze]

12 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

That being said, a CB prize is absolutely no different in appearance than a horribly inbred prize with no pretty lineage to speak of.  The sprites are identical.  As such, I don't think that collecting sprites is really the issue here.

Well said!

 

@CellyBean - The origin of the pancakes had absolutely nothing to do with "collecting" -- I think TJ was probably about 17 when he did that and it was a JOKE! I think it is just time to let it go. It has NEVER been an issue in the game until now, so why is it one now?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@CellyBean the pancake thing was done way, way back when the site was pretty new and had far less users than it does now. While I agree that introducing a private sprite out of the blue now to a single user would  be a terrible idea, I don't think there's any point in getting bent out of shape out of a joke between staff members that's almost ten years old and sitting on the scroll of someone who's been inactive almost that long. As others above have mentioned, no one is bemoaning their lack of the joke eggs or a stack of winged pancakes. Prizes are on a whole different level.

Edited January 5, 2018 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Lady Natasha]

My only problem with the prizes right now is that, as others have stated, it is very difficult to create nice lineages out of them. That's why CB dragons are more important than lineaged ones: so you have a blank canvas to make whatever lineage you desire. With CB prizes being so limited, it is nearly impossible for most users to create their own lineages unless thy are willing to sell their soul.

[olympe]

Well, if you want to discuss IHOP, feel free to start a thread about them. I don't think that discussion about IHOP, XD, <3, Missingno or the good old "glitch breedings" between rare x rare or rare x holiday. (Oops, nothing special about those "glitch breedings" any more, as that has become a regular thing!) The question here is how to fix the system to obtain CB prizes.

 

Personally, I think that any system that is neither solely luck-based nor as restrictive as the one we have in place will be a vast improvement.

[Guillotine]

18 hours ago, CellyBean said:

i completely disagree with any penalty for previous winners. they did not choose to win, they did not trade, barter, cheat or buy their way to a win. they just got lucky. there is nothing wrong with getting lucky and if someone gets lucky more than once who cares? they should not be punished for it just for people who haven gotten lucky yet.

 

im more than fine with greatly increasing the amount of winners per month. lets have a thousand winners per month. maybe more.

a way to get prize dragons through getting trophy levels or maybe even just doing ingame regular things and you'll randomly get a pop up saying you got a prize in addition to the monthly raffles fine.

That they didn't choose to win and won fairly is irrelevant, especially since a small penalty would be unlikely to completely prevent repeat winning in that time frame (twelve rolls is a fair few, even given our current small stock). Which was the point of specifying a small penalty: an alteration to the RNG that makes it so that more people over time win. Double/triple wins would still happen with that, just less often. In games, true randomness is often not the best thing for the game.

 

But again, the Trader's Canyon suggestion is really the best one for this. Especially when you consider that people massively prefer the version where you'd only be able to get the currency via current normal gameplay.

 

And to counter the people saying CBs don't matter: If all I cared about was the sprites, I'd have stopped playing years ago. It is trivial to get almost all of the non-SA/test sprites if you don't care about lineage. But... well, if CBs were unimportant, we wouldn't have gotten CB holidays reintroduced. There wouldn't have been any pressure to get them reintroduced.
 

[The Dragoness]

Speaking as somone who owns no upside down Mint, no CB Prize, and no HM Prize, I know how much it sucks to not win. I don't even get excited about the monthly raffles anymore, especially when I see people posting that they've won twice or more. Yes, maybe that makes me selfish and greedy, but it is honestly becoming a problem. If I can't win myself, I would at least like to see someone else in a similar situation win. I want to see the excitement and joy and genuine surprise spread, not be limited to a group that many have dubbed "elite." And yes, I would love to win someday. I don't need anything trade-wise, so, just like most other people, I would give the 2Gs away to those with little trading power.

 

I don't ever want to see CB Prizes drop in the cave or cost real currency. The raffles have never led to good things either. 1000 Prizes could be given out each month and a sour taste would be left in someone's mouth. There will always be double/triple/quadruple winners, winners who only show up once every few months to enter the raffle, and people who multiscroll their way into winning. The raffles are random, so those people have just as great a chance as an active, honest, CB Prize-less player. That's why I prefer the store or an anniversary award over all else. Right now, CB Prizes are one of the few valuable dragons left in the game, but it's nearly impossible to get them. It's player-driven value, but value nonetheless.

 

That being said, I don't think it's fair to get upset with CB Prize owners or spriters. The winners won by random chance. The spriters deserve their alts in return for their hard work.

Edited January 5, 2018 by The Dragoness

[HeatherMarie]

For what it's worth, I don't fault CB Prize owners in any way at all, and I'm totally happy for them. Winning must feel great, and I'm glad they get to experience that. I fault the system, the way Prizes are distributed, the fact that it's complete and utter chance and there is no way at all to increase that chance. To all CB Prize winners, good for you! I'm happy for you. I just wish it wasn't such a crapshoot for others to experience the same thing.

[olympe]

11 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

For what it's worth, I don't fault CB Prize owners in any way at all, and I'm totally happy for them. Winning must feel great, and I'm glad they get to experience that. I fault the system, the way Prizes are distributed, the fact that it's complete and utter chance and there is no way at all to increase that chance. To all CB Prize winners, good for you! I'm happy for you. I just wish it wasn't such a crapshoot for others to experience the same thing.

This very much sums up my feelings.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I wish Honourable mentions would come back (mainly so I can get a CB Green Spinel Wyvern)

[The Dragoness]

45 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

For what it's worth, I don't fault CB Prize owners in any way at all, and I'm totally happy for them. Winning must feel great, and I'm glad they get to experience that. I fault the system, the way Prizes are distributed, the fact that it's complete and utter chance and there is no way at all to increase that chance. To all CB Prize winners, good for you! I'm happy for you. I just wish it wasn't such a crapshoot for others to experience the same thing.

I agree!

[Guillotine]

43 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

For what it's worth, I don't fault CB Prize owners in any way at all, and I'm totally happy for them. Winning must feel great, and I'm glad they get to experience that. I fault the system, the way Prizes are distributed, the fact that it's complete and utter chance and there is no way at all to increase that chance. To all CB Prize winners, good for you! I'm happy for you. I just wish it wasn't such a crapshoot for others to experience the same thing.

This is why I suggest minimizing the number of duplicate winners. It's not spite, it's that there are so few that even having a handful going to people who have won them before makes an already flawed system more frustrating.

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Marie19R said:

For what it's worth, I don't fault CB Prize owners in any way at all, and I'm totally happy for them. Winning must feel great, and I'm glad they get to experience that. I fault the system, the way Prizes are distributed, the fact that it's complete and utter chance and there is no way at all to increase that chance. To all CB Prize winners, good for you! I'm happy for you. I just wish it wasn't such a crapshoot for others to experience the same thing.

 

54 minutes ago, olympe said:

This very much sums up my feelings.

 

Mine too.

 

12 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

This is why I suggest minimizing the number of duplicate winners. It's not spite, it's that there are so few that even having a handful going to people who have won them before makes an already flawed system more frustrating.

 

Doing that immediately makes it not random. And that will mean even more people crying unfair, and trying to ask for ways to change the RNG so that they are more likely to win. If not the store, then totally random is the only viable option. Duplicate winners make a VANISHINGLY small difference to anything. As TJ has pointed out somewhere.

[olympe]

Sometimes, complaints aren't about facts, but about perception. 12 double winners and 2 triple winners (random numbers here, I don't follow the CB prize thread!) may be an insignificant number compared to the number of winners overall, but at the same time, it could have meant 16 more single winners if repeated winning was impossible.