Fixing the Current CB Prize System

[Splash]

I think that there should definitely be a limit on CB prizes in that you can't receive another until everyone else who enters has one. However, this would take a really long time, and I suspect that the raffle will be put on hold if something like this comes close to happening so prize offspring is still valued. If prizes were as common as Guardians of Nature, for example, their offspring wouldn't be worth what they are now.

 

I do think that a store is a good idea, however not with real currency. Maybe for collecting dragons or badges you could receive some sort of in-game currency which could be traded for raffle tickets, and the more tickets you entered, the higher your chances. That way, also, people who have been on Dragon Cave longer without winning a prize would have more of a chance (my best friend won a golden prize in her first raffle the month she joined, and I couldn't help but feel as if it was a bit unfair, even though I know it's entirely chance). The prize limit would to apply for this to work, though.

[Dragon_Arbock]

9 minutes ago, Splashie said:

I do think that a store is a good idea, however not with real currency. Maybe for collecting dragons or badges you could receive some sort of in-game currency which could be traded for raffle tickets, and the more tickets you entered, the higher your chances. That way, also, people who have been on Dragon Cave longer without winning a prize would have more of a chance (my best friend won a golden prize in her first raffle the month she joined, and I couldn't help but feel as if it was a bit unfair, even though I know it's entirely chance). The prize limit would to apply for this to work, though.

 

I mean, if you're going to mention giving people more raffle tickets, why not actually make it harder to enter the raffle in the first place? Literally anyone can raise 3 dragons in a month, it's child's play, and making it that easy to enter means it doesn't reward people who are actually more active.

[Splash]

20 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

I mean, if you're going to mention giving people more raffle tickets, why not actually make it harder to enter the raffle in the first place? Literally anyone can raise 3 dragons in a month, it's child's play, and making it that easy to enter means it doesn't reward people who are actually more active.

That's another problem. Someone could pop in on DC once a month, grab a few eggs, put them in a hatching site, and have as much luck as someone who raises 30 or more dragons a month. If the raffle was based off badges (or just overall amount of dragons), then I think that this would be much more fair.

[blockEdragon]

13 minutes ago, Splashie said:

That's another problem. Someone could pop in on DC once a month, grab a few eggs, put them in a hatching site, and have as much luck as someone who raises 30 or more dragons a month. If the raffle was based off badges (or just overall amount of dragons), then I think that this would be much more fair.

Badges? So older players should have a permanent advantage for the achievement of joining earlier? 

 

Also if they actually do grab a few eggs once in a while and successfully raise them who's to say they don't deserve a chance at winning something special PURELY because they don't devote part of every day to raising tens of dragons a month?

Even if they don't breed it as often as others, it's no reason to deprive someone who is still somewhat active and capable of raising a dragon.

Edited January 5, 2018 by blockEdragon

[Splash]

Maybe there could be a rule that you have to have participated for two or three months before entering a raffle to make it a bit more of something you earn, or you have to respond to activity checks to ensure that players who are active are more likely to get a prize.

[schmupti]

They already are "more attainable". I've regularly been offered tidy <4G prizes in trade, and there are now 12 chances to win a CB each year instead of just one.

 

That was the fix. The average user can afford to be a little picky instead of grabbing that 23G inbred tinsel from the AP just to have one. Long-term users, Platinum users, and users who've knocked out the Encyclopedia are even better off in that regard.

 

It's a lottery, not a queue. Nobody 'deserves' to win. That's what separates prizes from other rares: they're the one rare anybody can get as a CB, because it requires almost no effort, so the usual inequities that make hunting rares awful for some people (mobile vs PC, slow ISPs, physical impairments, etc.) don't apply. Trying to declare some users 'deserving' due to longevity, scroll size, ability to spend real money, etc.—users that are arguably already advantaged in the game—that's just putting your thumb on the scale. There's nothing fair about that.

 

tl;dr: "I don't have one yet" doesn't mean the system is broken.

[Sazandora]

If it really needs fixing, I'd say just up the amount of CBs given each month to... say, maybe 80 or 100 or something. As much as I love the idea of an in-game store (without real money being used as a currency!), I kinda doubt that will ever happen.

[Fuzzbucket]

7 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@CellyBean many people are worried about grinding, and because of that the store suggestion was extensively and carefully thought out to ensure it would only reward normal play and not excessive play. I’ve seen games with grinding and huge prices and I hate them too, but I think there are ways to avoid them happening.

 

The suggestion and question the OP has is how we can fix the current prize system. I think a store would do exactly that. Just because you dislike it yourself doesn’t mean mentioning it is derailing the thread. 

 

7 hours ago, Marie19R said:

I too honestly think the store would fix a *lot* of the current issues in this game, including Prizes. The main thing against a store/currency that most people bring up is not wanting to "grind", which is why the specific store option was so good, because it was very extensively talked about and figured out, and you would get currency only from doing regular game-playing things that you'd be doing anyways, like raising dragons. Grinding wouldn't be necessary or even possible.

 

If the store is an absolute no-go, I'd very very strongly support raising the number of winners each month. At *least* 200-300 winners a month. 60 per month is so ludicrously small that it would take at *least* 4 years for every user to win once, and that's assuming there are less then 3,000 active players and that no one wins more then once, which we already know isn't true. I'd also MAJORLY support a way to actually *earn* Prizes, whether through trophy status or raising a certain number of a specific breed or whatever, don't really care. 

 

I coudn't agree more. The store would solve this and a number of other issues with one (major piece of coding) stroke.

 

6 hours ago, Marie19R said:

I like the anniversary idea, but how do you work that with people who've been here forever? I've been playing for over 9 years now, does that mean I'll immediately get to have 9 Prizes? Or would it just start fresh from whenever the feature is introduced (in which case the entire userbase active when it's introduced will be owned a Prize 1 year later....)

 

The store suggestion thread had a cap on how much you could earn in a certain amount of time, so I don't see much of a way to exploit it. You gain points/currency/whatever by playing the game as you normally do, but only up to a certain value, and then you can't earn any more for that period (I think it was a week or so). So someone holding dragons for you wouldn't really work if you are already at that cap, and even if you aren't the cap will stop you from accumulating too much at once from the people giving you dragons.

 

OOH yes - I'd get the lot othe spot, too

 

4 hours ago, Dorchet said:

Caveborn Prizes dragons already are not able to get sick, just so you know, nor can they be abandoned, either.

 

Is that the case now ? One lucky person here caught an abandoned CB in the AP in the days they were only won once a year

[Ruby Eyes]

About this suggestion: I don't think the current CB Prize system needs any fixing, really. That's just my personal feeling.

 

 

Slightly off-topic:

Upon reading the first handful of posts, I'm amazed how mentioning of a real-money-store (which the OP themselves had already clearly marked with "don't like") quickly concluded in a complaint that "The Store" is in the talk again (which is a definite no-real-money store).

Baffling.

[LibbyLishly]

2 hours ago, schmupti said:

They already are "more attainable". I've regularly been offered tidy <4G prizes in trade, and there are now 12 chances to win a CB each year instead of just one.

 

That was the fix. The average user can afford to be a little picky instead of grabbing that 23G inbred tinsel from the AP just to have one. Long-term users, Platinum users, and users who've knocked out the Encyclopedia are even better off in that regard.

 

It's a lottery, not a queue. Nobody 'deserves' to win. That's what separates prizes from other rares: they're the one rare anybody can get as a CB, because it requires almost no effort, so the usual inequities that make hunting rares awful for some people (mobile vs PC, slow ISPs, physical impairments, etc.) don't apply. Trying to declare some users 'deserving' due to longevity, scroll size, ability to spend real money, etc.—users that are arguably already advantaged in the game—that's just putting your thumb on the scale. There's nothing fair about that.

 

tl;dr: "I don't have one yet" doesn't mean the system is broken.

This. All of it.

 

I support the currencyless store and I'm not about to protest if the pool of monthly winners is enlarged, but I am also fine with how the system is working. It's SO much better than when the raffle was only annual. I might never win. That's okay. There are more prizes in circulation than ever before and it's exciting.

Edited January 5, 2018 by LibbyLishly
A word

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, schmupti said:

It's a lottery, not a queue. Nobody 'deserves' to win.

 

tl;dr: "I don't have one yet" doesn't mean the system is broken.

 

Missed this, and I totally agree. I really think it's time to get over the entitlement thing about prize dragons which pervades this forum.

Who here has never bought a lottery ticket ? Who here who has bought one (90% of us, I bet)  goes around complaining about people who have won the lottery more than once or saying that everyone should win because I haven't and it's not fair.

Lotteries are random. If you don't like that, don't enter. Simples. (And no I have never won, and I never will. That has been my life for 73 years and I expect it will last till I turn up my toes. And I am still fine with the system as it NOW is here. I was even OK with the old way, which really WAS restrictive.)

Edited January 5, 2018 by fuzzbucket
clarity and bad grammar

[bluesonic1]

3 hours ago, schmupti said:

They already are "more attainable". I've regularly been offered tidy <4G prizes in trade, and there are now 12 chances to win a CB each year instead of just one.

 

That was the fix. The average user can afford to be a little picky instead of grabbing that 23G inbred tinsel from the AP just to have one. Long-term users, Platinum users, and users who've knocked out the Encyclopedia are even better off in that regard.

 

It's a lottery, not a queue. Nobody 'deserves' to win. That's what separates prizes from other rares: they're the one rare anybody can get as a CB, because it requires almost no effort, so the usual inequities that make hunting rares awful for some people (mobile vs PC, slow ISPs, physical impairments, etc.) don't apply. Trying to declare some users 'deserving' due to longevity, scroll size, ability to spend real money, etc.—users that are arguably already advantaged in the game—that's just putting your thumb on the scale. There's nothing fair about that.

 

tl;dr: "I don't have one yet" doesn't mean the system is broken.

I love this post very much, it sums up my feelings nicely on the subject. Particularly the part about how the raffle is what makes them special- to get a CB, no matter what your skills in catching CB Golds/Silvers or making Neglecteds, whether you're on desktop with a super connection or mobile browsing on your commute to work, it doesn't even matter if you've been here 8 years or 1 month... you'll always have a chance to win a CB Prize. Everyone is on an equal playing field.

 

The trade off to the fact that it's a chance to win one is that it barely takes any effort at all- click a button and you could be the owner of one of the rarest dragons in DC. In a world were everything is instant, where you can buy something online and have it delivered the same day, or food made for you and delivered to your door in less than 30mins, I think what's missing here is patience.

[deleted_account]

-CB Limits-beats the whole purpose of the raffle - NO!!!

-Once you win, you cannot win again until everyone entered in the raffle has already won-similar to the above - NO!!!

-A store-don't really like this one as dragon cave has, unlike other sites, stayed completely free to use and I appreciate that. - YES!!!

-Prizes as, well prizes for doing actual things, such as being on dc for X amount of years, completing the dragon encyclopedia, raising/freezing/breeding X amount of dragons, earning a platinum trophy, etc. - YES!!!

-Increase Amount of Prizes - YES!

 

Random is never fair, we need some ways to EARN them and scroll CB limits are ALWAYS bad and should be removed, not added. 

 

 

 

"Who here has never bought a lottery ticket ? Who here who has bought one (90% of us, I bet)  goes around complaining about people who have won the lottery more than once or saying that everyone should win because I haven't and it's not fair."

This is a COLLECTING GAME, not life. Huge difference. The whole purpose of a collective game is that you can set your own goals and reach them someday, the Prizes break that part, as well as CB limits of holidays and GoNs(you can no longer reach your original goals if they were about more of X than the game lets you have and are forced to change thegoals and live in frustration or leave the game, I know such people). If it's in the game everyone should be able to obtain it. Especially as CB if the game is so much about lineages and breeding (and where CB is worth the world, and 3g is worth barely anything if anything) like DC is. For some things things that work someplace else just don't work. And this is the case. Lottieries may work in real life but they don't work in a collecting game... it's counterproductive here. Game is not life.

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by MhKhu

[Fuzzbucket]

Random is as fair as it gets. Everyone is in with an equal chance.

[Jazeki]

Not gonna address other things because a lot of other users have said it better, but nothing tied to trophy level or the number of dragons you have. The anniversary thing is fine because it just has to do with how long you actively play and gives everyone a chance. But nothing that favors older players or people with more dragons. Trophies don't mean anything with regards to how long you've played or whether you are an old player or not. 

[Herk]

37 minutes ago, fuzzbucket said:

Random is as fair as it gets. Everyone is in with an equal chance.

 

While this is true in a sense - I think the basic disagreement is Random vs Earned and which one you prefer is a question of temperament. As someone who has NEVER played the lottery (unless you count random charity things that I do for the charity not the win chance) I would PREFER the 'earned' side like the store. If that doesn't happen well - like Libby said it's very exciting to see so many new Prizes around, s that's OK with me too

[schmupti]

1 hour ago, MhKhu said:

This is a COLLECTING GAME, not life. Huge difference. The whole purpose of a collective game is that you can set your own goals and reach them someday, the Prizes break that part, as well as CB limits of holidays and GoNs(you can no longer reach your original goals if they were about more of X than the game lets you have and are forced to change thegoals and live in frustration or leave the game, I know such people). If it's in the game everyone should be able to obtain it. Especially as CB if the game is so much about lineages and breeding (and where CB is worth the world, and 3g is worth barely anything if anything) like DC is. For some things things that work someplace else just don't work. And this is the case. Lottieries may work in real life but they don't work in a collecting game... it's counterproductive here. Game is not life.

 

 

You will never get a CB alt Black or Vine. They do exist, but only as TJ's originals and special prizes awarded in previous years (and even then, it wasn't likely). Regardless of your goals, you and I and everybody else on the site gets our alts the regular way, through breeding.

 

You will never have spriters' alts. Each exists only on the scroll of the artist who made the image. Even if you learn to make pixel dragons, you will only get an alt for the dragon(s) you make. Goals be darned, you and I and everybody else has to enjoy spriters' alts the regular way, by hustling and trading for regular dragons that have them in their lineage.

 

You will never have pancakes. I will never have pancakes. You and I and everybody else on the site can only gaze wistfully at the pancakes. (Go on. Gaze.) The pancakes do not care about our goals.

 

There are already things in the game you and I will never be able to obtain. That you want to collect all the things does not matter - it's not possible. The unavailability of pancakes and spriters' alts and CB alts does not affect the way you play unless you get hung-up on it. Yes, sometimes things become obtainable, e.g. un-retired breeds and CB Holiday biomes, but you'll still face limits - you can't get an original post-dated Holly if you weren't there for it. That's not a flaw in the game, it's just part of it.

 

CB prizes are obtainable. They're just not easily obtainable.

Edited January 5, 2018 by schmupti

[Fuzzbucket]

15 minutes ago, herk said:

 

While this is true in a sense - I think the basic disagreement is Random vs Earned and which one you prefer is a question of temperament. As someone who has NEVER played the lottery (unless you count random charity things that I do for the charity not the win chance) I would PREFER the 'earned' side like the store. If that doesn't happen well - like Libby said it's very exciting to see so many new Prizes around, s that's OK with me too

 

True. I am fine with earned. I'd be happy to work for them. But the idea that because it is a collecting game we are entitled to be able to get everything is so VERY wrong. I collected stamps for years, but was never able to get a lot I really wanted.  Random IS fair; it just doesn'  deliver to everyone equally.

 

As Schmupti so eloquently says:

 

13 minutes ago, schmupti said:

 

You will never get a CB alt Black or Vine. They do exist, but only as TJ's originals and special prizes awarded in previous years (and even then, it wasn't likely). Regardless of your goals, you and I and everybody else on the site gets our alts the regular way, through breeding.

 

You will never have spriters' alts. Each exists only on the scroll of the artist who made the image. Even if you learn to make pixel dragons, you will only get an alt for the dragon(s) you make. Goals be darned, you and I and everybody else has to enjoy spriters' alts the regular way, by hustling and trading for regular dragons that have them in their lineage.

 

You will never have pancakes. I will never have pancakes. You and I and everybody else on the site can only gaze wistfully at the pancakes. (Go on. Gaze.) The pancakes do not care about our goals.

 

There are already things in the game you and I will never be able to obtain. That you want to collect all the things does not matter - it's not possible. The unavailability of pancakes and spriters' alts and CB alts does not affect the way you play unless you get hung-up on it. Yes, sometimes things become obtainable, e.g. un-retired breeds and CB Holiday biomes, but you'll still face limits - you can't get an original post-dated Holly if you weren't there for it. That's not a flaw in the game, it's just part of it.

 

CB prizes are obtainable. They're just not easily obtainable.

 

[Paradisiske]

as others here have said prizes are prizes. random is as fair as you can get and excluding people who won before due to random is just mean spirited. 

 

somethings we will never get like spriters alts but other things shouldnt have been exclusive imo like pancakes and the upside down mints. utter bs 

[Ruby Eyes]

There's also the permafog https://dragcave.net/view/bb19 and the special eggs https://dragcave.net/view/XD and https://dragcave.net/view/<3

But mostly, I'd love a winged stack of pancakes. Its owner isn't playing anymore anyway, right?

[Paradisiske]

5 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

There's also the permafog https://dragcave.net/view/bb19 and the special eggs https://dragcave.net/view/XD and https://dragcave.net/view/<3

But mostly, I'd love a winged stack of pancakes. Its owner isn't playing anymore anyway, right?

honestly theres no point to why the permafog, pancakes and upside down mints should be exclusive to a few players. they werent a raffle prize or anything like that.

 

the special eggs belong to tj as far as i know so i have no issue with those. same reason why i have no issue with spriters alts. 

 

 

prize dragons the way they were introduced screwed up the game royally but now we just have to make the best of it. increasing the amount of winners every month is good. limiting or not letting people who won before enter again is not good.

[sh20000sh]

By the way, if people who got mutliple prizes are too common, we can doubt about random number generator at that lottery system, but how common are they?

[Jazeki]

1 minute ago, sh20000sh said:

By the way, if people who got mutliple prizes are too common, we can doubt about random number generator at that lottery system, but how common are they?

TJ discussed this in a different thread and chalked it up to the RNG doing its job. It is apparently likely that people will win multiple times because that is how it works. Some users have mentioned winning more than once, but we have no way of knowing how common this is because not everyone has a forum account and not everyone posts. 

[VixenDra]

10 minutes ago, CellyBean said:

somethings we will never get like spriters alts but other things shouldnt have been exclusive imo like pancakes and the upside down mints. utter bs 

 

Exactly.

 

Don't even mix SAs into this, it's irrelevant (but if you have to, I'm wondering why they are based on whether the spriter got a holiday release instead on how much they contributed... but well, no matter how SA distribution is altered, still only very few of the good spriters get released, new blood feels to be avoided like fire. Still, if an artist can make just holidays and get SA of each dragon they get released this way while an artist who made no holiday but plenty of regular releases gets none sounds beyond unfair, but also, another topic).

Also, TJ has made many mistakes about DC, such as e.g. the Pancakes, Missingno or CB hybrids and other unfair and unjustified exceptions given to some friends or RNGed users others can't even dream of. Misakes, if can't get fixed (how would that look if suddenly some pancakes or fogs got released into a DRAGON game? but you can't just remove those instances of mistakes from the game anymore, that wouldn't look any better - though would be neat from the owners if they just released those mistakes which they surely won't do and nobody should ever ask them except TJ), shouldn't be repeated and more mistakes shouldn't be madem as simple as that. Not all can be fixed by getting obtainable (can you imagine DRAGON Cave with a pancake creature if we can't even get gryphons released? me neither) but of all the Prizes should become asap.

The reintroduced raffle is way better than the original raffles and the contest(today there are certain better known users who are more liked or more hated than others, we can't have a commmunity voting as it won't be fair at all, nto to mntion there are way too many users in the poll even if everything would be anonymous - one wouldnt' be able to possibly see all entries, one would vote from just a few they saw. So nope to votings.) but still, the raffle is not a good thing. Prizes are NOT SAs, they are NOT Pancakes... and to the slighest... There are hundreds of people who have CB Prizes and rule the market and all because a RNG... and thousands of users who can't get any no matter what they do. It's just wrong.

 

 

EARN the Prizes. Don't limit people based on how many they already have. Let people choose the breed...

We NEED the store. Especially if it's done the way I've seen people suggesting it in its thread.

And trophy-based and the like aren't bad, even I, with so limited goals(5 per breed or variant, minus dinos), exceeded Platinum without altering my playstyle at all and I haven't even reached 5 per breed for all yet. Someday, there will be so many breeds out there that even people whose goal is to collect 1 dragon per breed would someday reach the trophies. Not to mention some breeds are like required to play at all such as Pinks and most of us get themselves more of these regardless the playstyle which just needs to get altered already (I wish there was some other way to influence gender, fertilise etc. than hoarding some dragons that ruin the feng-shui of my scroll by just being there:()... I don't think it would harm anyone actually (at least not any more than the BSA dragons already do)... not on the long run at least. A fair, non-competitive way to earn Prizes and max 4 if it's just the trophies. That's still very few in the pool either.

 

EARN > RNG

[KrazyKarp]

14 hours ago, JadeEyedJasmine said:

-Prizes as, well prizes for doing actual things, such as being on dc for X amount of years, completing the dragon encyclopedia, raising/freezing/breeding X amount of dragons, earning a platinum trophy, etc.

 

I actually like this a lot. These achievement type of things actually seem really fun. Then I'm actually working towards Prizes, which is exactly what I want. RNG is incredibly annoying and, to be honest, raffles are far more toxic to a game than anything else. For example, just look at trading; CB Prize owners are gods. That should NOT be happening.

I understand people want them to "be special" but you can still keep 'em special? It's not a "If they're in raffles, they're 100% special" and "If they're not in raffles, they're complete trash" type of thing. 

 

I'm also in favor of the store idea, too; it fixes Prizes and more! Who knew you could knock out so many birds with a single stone?!

 

I'd like to point out that increasing the amount of winners is merely a temporary solution. Soon enough, people will become dissatisfied, and the question will again be proposed: "Should we raise the amount of winners?" I'd like a permanent solution, please. And it's rather inevitable that we'll need a permanent solution to this.