Allow Valentines/Christmas dragons to be either gender

[blockEdragon]

The Christmas/Valentines rule of one gender species should be done away with. It has no real reason to exist other then to keep the one gender tradition that is really just needlessly limiting for breeding/collecting. Now that the caveborns are coming back I think it would be best to just allow them to be either gender. It's not like doing this would destroy any of the species as a concept, none of the lore given really points to them only being able to function if they are a certain gender, all of the traits could easily apply to a dragon with either gender. The most that would have to be changed would be a pronoun or two in the descriptions and maybe one or two bullet points in the encyclopedia and that's pretty much all you need to change in order to make them work as a two gender species.

 

 

(PERSONAL NOTE: sorry for saying that we should overrule the spriters wishes below, that was out of line and i'd like to apologize.)

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by blockEdragon
Why ressurect a thread that is rendered mostly useless by the new limits when an edit will work?

[Dragon_Arbock]

I don't really care if they stay one gender, but dragons like Hollies and Mistletoes where the dragons that aren't first-gen can be male or female.. yeah I think that needs to be changed. (not to mention me not thinking I would need to influence my mistletoes, then they were suddenly male).

[KrazyKarp]

17 minutes ago, blockEdragon said:

Now that the caveborns are coming back I think it would be best to just allow them to be either gender.

This is the flaw in this suggestion. You're assuming the Christmas and Valentine breeds are coming back. While it is a safe assumption (I myself am expecting it), we don't know for certain if they're returning. At least, correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't recall TJ ever explicitly saying they're coming back.

[olympe]

Well, the mistletoe issue was all over the TLQ thread back then - people noticing that the eggs could be influenced and asking if something was wrong - and Piemaster answering each and every time with a meme or poster or something that made it clear that this was intended behavior. Anybody paying even a little attention to the thread would have been able to tell that mistletoes were able to be either gender after that, at least. 

 

That being said, even though I'd love for all dragons to be available in male and female version, I know that many artists are against this very change (from an earlier suggestion), so it's probably not going to happen. 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

We aren't sure that CB Valentine / Christmases are coming back yet. I'd like to think so, but Halloweens are a very different fish from the others, and we can't be sure. And even if they DID come back, they might still be limited to 2 per person, in which case letting CBs be different genders opens a whole new can of worms (do I get 2 of the same gender to make a checker?? 1 of each?! WHAT DO?!) 

 

I mean, IF old Christmas / Vals return and IF limits are raised, then... maybe. There are certainly pairings I'd like to do with the opposite genders (just saw a flipped Mistle x Rosebud today--very pretty!), but it's not an essential thing.

[Dragon_Arbock]

14 minutes ago, olympe said:

Well, the mistletoe issue was all over the TLQ thread back then - people noticing that the eggs could be influenced and asking if something was wrong - and Piemaster answering each and every time with a meme or poster or something that made it clear that this was intended behavior. Anybody paying even a little attention to the thread would have been able to tell that mistletoes were able to be either gender after that, at least. 

 

That being said, even though I'd love for all dragons to be available in male and female version, I know that many artists are against this very change (from an earlier suggestion), so it's probably not going to happen. 

As someone who logged only into the main site at that time, it was not something I was expecting. I shouldn't have to go on the forums to find out about gameplay changes.

 

Back on topic, the whole discussion is based on the idea of them coming back. If they don't, this is irrelevant, but it's about what we want if they do.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

But even if they DO come back, we don't know if limits will still be in play... and that has a big effect on how I would feel about this. I think the topic is a bit premature.

[Dragon_Arbock]

The only con I can see of no limits is the lag we're dealing with now. But as the site grows that will need to be dealt with either way.

Maybe this is premature, but I'd rather put in my two cents, then see something happen and then have it be 'well why didn't you say something beforehand?'

[The Dragoness]

I think this would only work if CBs are brought back. Otherwise, like with Mistletoes, only stairstep lineages can be created with both genders, since CBs will remain one gender only. And Holiday stairsteps aren't as popular as checkers.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited November 3, 2017 by The Dragoness

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Dragon_Arbock last month, TJ posted this:

 

Quote

 

I'd say [raising / lifting limits] is mutually exclusive with the idea of CB holiday dragons returning, and if I had to choose between the two, it'd be bringing back CB Dragons for people who didn't get a chance to grab them.

 

But neither is confirmed for happening, so make of that what you will.

 

 

TJ can and has changed his mind, but I'd be pretty surprised if both things happened next month. Of course you can speculate, but we won't know until we know.

 

If limits remain, I'd say FIRMLY NO to both gendered CBs. I would not want to have to choose how to gender such limited things; it's annoying with GoNs and would be annoying again here.

 

If limits are removed, I'm NEUTRAL. I would see pros to it, sure, but a lot of the lore around the breeds has been based on their zany single gender habits and it would feel a bit weird to remove it... even if similar changes have been done before with pinks and purples.

[Dragon_Arbock]

9 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@Dragon_Arbock last month, TJ posted this:

 

 

TJ can and has changed his mind, but I'd be pretty surprised if both things happened next month. Of course you can speculate, but we won't know until we know.

 

If limits remain, I'd say FIRMLY NO to both gendered CBs. I would not want to have to choose how to gender such limited things; it's annoying with GoNs and would be annoying again here.

 

If limits are removed, I'm NEUTRAL. I would see pros to it, sure, but a lot of the lore around the breeds has been based on their zany single gender habits and it would feel a bit weird to remove it... even if similar changes have been done before with pinks and purples.

I don't understand how that works though- to me, that thing TJ said means you either have no limits on the 'new breed of the year', or the new breed will return. It doesn't really say about if there would be limits on old things. It just makes me wonder cause just raising limits wouldn't actually be doing anything to help if it only applied to new breeds.

 

Also I'd say probably should make a new topic for the different gendered holidays.

[cyradis4]

As the conceptor of the Mutamores... 

 

Talk to me *after* TJ has re-released CB Christmasses with no limits. Until then, this is a pointless discussion... Because what text there is strongly suggests that if he brings old Holidays back they will still have the limits... in which case I deff do NOT want Mutamores to have both genders. 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

[Jazeki]

I'm with others in that if the Xmas/ V-day holidays come back with scroll limits of two then I think they should stay with a single gender. If they are raised to four or unlimited, then I would be okay with adding both genders. Really though, it's up to TJ and artists. 

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I'll get back to you when TJ gives us info. Until then.....

 

Yes, I want old caveborn winter/v'day dragons to return

Yes, I want the limits removed completely

Yes, I would like ALL dragons.. regular or holiday.. to have TWO genders

 

And when you get down to it, I'd like the holiday dragons to breed true ALL YEAR LONG!!!!!

[EscapistLore]

1 hour ago, cyradis4 said:

As the conceptor of the Mutamores... 

 

Talk to me *after* TJ has re-released CB Christmasses with no limits. Until then, this is a pointless discussion... Because what text there is strongly suggests that if he brings old Holidays back they will still have the limits... in which case I deff do NOT want Mutamores to have both genders. 

 

Cheers!
C4. 

And as the conceptor of the Snows...

 

I'd really prefer they didn't. If the argument was to allow all -bred- holidays to be either gender.. then.. Well, I wouldn't really care. But CBs?

 

I mean.. I designed the concept thinking of them as male. 

 

Maybe I'd reconsider IF holidays were rereleased with no limits. But I'm still not liking the idea. I'd have to seriously talk with Infi but.. yeah. I dont like the idea of female CB Snows.

[LibbyLishly]

I'd rather not, if solely because two genders gives me more eggs that I have to pick up and hatch in order to meet the scroll goals on which I am woefully behind! I'd also just sometimes rather not have to worry about influencing (looking at you, Mistletoes). I don't feel particularly strongly about it, and if it happened, I'd live, but... I'd just rather not, that's all.

[Stromboli]

Yep. If limits remain, it's a definite no from me. And even without limits, I'd rather it be with the conceptor/artist's agreement.

If I had a breed out that I'd designed to be one gender and after years of it being in the cave as such it's suddenly two? I'd be pretty unhappy about that.

 

At the end of the day, personally? I like the tradition the holidays have. But I wouldn't be upset if it changed, granted that limits were raised so we'd have a chance to get the gender we couldn't the first time 'round.

[HeatherMarie]

Hmm. Well, since two of the breeds in questions have had spriters comment negatively to the suggestion (unless limits are lifted), I'd like to say that I definitely would *not* want a few old holidays to change to both genders and the rest remain the same. Imo, it's all or nothing, and since it doesn't look like it will be "all" unless limits are lifted (which seems to be very unlikely), I'm not sure how much I'm liking this suggestion.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I don't really care either way. It just bothers me some breeds got the other gender introduced afterwards for no real reason- could even come up as an oversight with CB rereleases.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I have to say no on this. A lot of the lore on some of these dragons would have to be heavily changed. If the artists say no, then we must respect their decision and leave the issue alone.

[Fuzzbucket]

AS many have said - we have no idea what will happen with CBs over Christmas and Valentine's. But the creators created the dragons the way they wanted them - and we already see several of them not wanting it changed. Their view trumps everything we might want, in my view.

 

And I don't want it changed anyway ADP's right - it adds work having to influence and the rest.

[deleted]

The dragons wre specially designed to represent a gender, or at least thats what I think. A Male Rosebud wpuld look silly and I believe the Aegises were intended to be male and only male, so eone suggested this and the spriters of the Aegis dragon said they dont support the idea.

[VixenDra]

BIGGEST SUPPORT EVER!

 

If I had to choose between limits raised and both genders I'd still prefer BOTH GENDERS for ALL dem freaky dragons!  (It's just completly unrealsitic for a breed to survive from being just male-only. Not justifyable. And having only female-only breeds would be beyond inconsistent and strange in a bad way, not to mention incredibly unrealistic - jsut because 1 or 2 lower-developed organisms on Earth can survive like this, doesn't mean it's normal and good - this trait is iincredibly rare irl for a reason - and here we get sth like this twice every single year).

Not to mention for Valentines it makes way more sense for both genders to exist... they are abotu the holiday for COUPLES, ad well, we don't have a way to make homosexual parents so... they're contradicting themselves by bing against the spirit of their respective holiday.

 

It woudl add more consistency to the game, more lineage possibilities, more goals to be doable, etc.!

 

As for the artists who object, Bribe them with more CB SAs ;A: (please, just let your mind change somehow - FOR THE GREATER GOOD of DC!)

Edited November 3, 2017 by VixenDra

[Bison]

If limits were raised, CB holidays were re-released, and everyone involved in the creation of each dragon was fine with it I'd support this on a per-dragon basis. Its not realistic and can be annoying, absolutely, and I'd do anything for male Heartstealings so I understand the frustrations but eh. Its a cute tradition and I don't mind it enough to fuss about it too much.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

1 hour ago, VixenDra said:

BIGGEST SUPPORT EVER!

 

If I had to choose between limits raised and both genders I'd still prefer BOTH GENDERS for ALL dem freaky dragons!  (It's just completly unrealsitic for a breed to survive from being just male-only. Not justifyable. And having only female-only breeds would be beyond inconsistent and strange in a bad way, not to mention incredibly unrealistic - jsut because 1 or 2 lower-developed organisms on Earth can survive like this, doesn't mean it's normal and good - this trait is iincredibly rare irl for a reason - and here we get sth like this twice every single year).

Not to mention for Valentines it makes way more sense for both genders to exist... they are abotu the holiday for COUPLES, ad well, we don't have a way to make homosexual parents so... they're contradicting themselves by bing against the spirit of their respective holiday.

 

It woudl add more consistency to the game, more lineage possibilities, more goals to be doable, etc.!

 

As for the artists who object, Bribe them with more CB SAs ;A: (please, just let your mind change somehow - FOR THE GREATER GOOD of DC!)

No! There is a reason why the artists choose not to have the opposite gender and we must respect their decision to keep them this way.