Remove drake breeding

[cyradis4]

Ditto. And if drakes - why not pygmies ? (No, I am playing devil's advocate here - it would be just awful.)

That's the slippery slope that TJ dislikes so much.

 

Why NOT have Pygmies breed with dragons? Because they have 1 major distinct feature from dragons: they are very small and no regular dragon is their size.

 

Why NOT have Two-Heads breed with dragons? Because they have 1 major distinct feature from dragons: they have 2 heads.

 

Why NOT Drakes? Well..... They have no really distinct features that do not appear in normal dragons. The wings and antlers appear in regular dragons. The legs / wings combo appear in dragons. The lack of intelligence appears in dragons (several dragon breeds are frightfully stupid, read the info on them).

 

 

 

Long story short:

Why not pygmies and two-heads? Because they have 1 distinct feature that dragons do NOT have. But everything "special" about Drakes appears in regular dragons too.... Hence why I think limited breeding between the two groups is the way to go.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Kovia]

Long story short:

Why not pygmies and two-heads? Because they have 1 distinct feature that dragons do NOT have. But everything "special" about Drakes appears in regular dragons too.... Hence why I think limited breeding between the two groups is the way to go.

 

Cheers!

C4.

That argument goes both ways: Wyverns, Wyrms, Amphipteres, etc. have/lack features found on normal dragons, so why don't we make them separate breeding groups?

 

Does anyone remember the original reason Drakes were introduced? They were already established when I joined, but there must be some reason TJ and the spriters wanted them to be special.

[cyradis4]

That argument goes both ways: Wyverns, Wyrms, Amphipteres, etc. have/lack features found on normal dragons, so why don't we make them separate breeding groups?

 

Does anyone remember the original reason Drakes were introduced? They were already established when I joined, but there must be some reason TJ and the spriters wanted them to be special.

Dovealove asked for Ocherdrakes to be special, and TJ went with it. Dovealove was.... not my favorite artist, she was..... difficult, at least from the rumors at the time.

 

And while you do raise a valid point about the wyverns ect, and had it been that way from the start that'd be one thing.

 

Having said that, I think both Pygmies and Two-Heads are an order of magnitude different than the limbs of the other dragons. Pygmies are clearly at every stage very physically smaller than all other dragons. And two-heads again.... all have 2 heads. But in many cases, you can't tell if a hatchie will have wings until S2, in some cases you can't count how many limbs they have until S2, or even adult. So I'd argue that for the dragon body types, the distinction between the various types doesn't necessarily manifest until later stages of development but for Pygmies and Two-Heads, the difference is always there right from hatching (two heads or very tiny) and can't be confused with dragons.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

So... am I in the minority for actually liking Drakes? The Glories and Glaucuses are gorgeous, and the recently released Morphos and Tarantulas aren't bad.

 

The only thing "limiting" Drake designs is that they have to have antlers and a certain wing structure. That's really not that limiting. People just tend to default to "let's just call it a dragon."

 

 

I definitely feel like TJ wants to make Drakes more different with the recent egg change, so I don't really see this happening. Drakes have a lot of lore to them and it'd be hard to justify them suddenly being able to breed with dragons they couldn't before.

Maybe you are in a minority - but I love them - and their specialness - too.

 

and @ Tango - you CAN use drakes in lineages. I have a number running - and they are harder work than many, partly because they so often turn up the wrong breed. It;'s a fun challenge that would be less fun if they were less special.

 

And to the slippery slope thing - yes I know he hates them - BUT - if this were allowed - well, we've seen it before; after we begged to be allowed to have moah holidays on our scrolls, and got our wish, now we have demands for moah CB holidays and while we are at it, allow them to be of both sexes... I know slippery slopes don't exist and he will point to that article about them again - bu the fact remains that the more we are given the more we demand.

[cyradis4]

Maybe you are in a minority - but I love them - and their specialness - too.

 

and @ Tango - you CAN use drakes in lineages. I have a number running - and they are harder work than many, partly because they so often turn up the wrong breed. It;'s a fun challenge that would be less fun if they were less special.

 

And to the slippery slope thing - yes I know he hates them - BUT - if this were allowed - well, we've seen it before; after we begged to be allowed to have moah holidays on our scrolls, and got our wish, now we have demands for moah CB holidays and while we are at it, allow them to be of both sexes... I know slippery slopes don't exist and he will point to that article about them again - bu the fact remains that the more we are given the more we demand.

Actually the more CBs was happening at the same time as the "More Holidays". Remember that some people were wanting no limits, and others were wanting upped by x? Others x per year? So people have been wanting more CBs for a very long time, as well as more Holidays in general.

 

And I have not seen ONE topic, ever, asking specifically for Pygmies or Two-Heads to be joined to Dragons.... But getting rid of Drake breeding comes up literally ALL the time. And that's because there IS nothing instantly distinct about Drakes: all of their physical features show up in Dragons, whereas with Pygmies and Two-Heads, its *nod nod* I see why that is, *move along*.

 

So what do YOU think of the limited fertility idea? We don't necessarily have to do away entirely with the sub-species in order to make them inter-fertile, just make Drake - Dragon pairings sub-fertile. That takes care of the major issue people have with them (few mates) while still preserving most of their original "not dragons" lore.

 

ETA: Its not "the more we are given the more we demand", its "Ohmy! We actually got something taken care of, lets bring up these other topics that are less important but still bugging us and see if we can get things improved, too". Yes, one does follow the other, but its NOT because we are spoiled children wanting ever more..... Its because there are so many issues that have been festering for so long that any forward progress brings HOPE for more forward progress on more issues... resulting in MORE suggestions, most of which were for long existing problems. For example, the unlimited bred Holidays was to address untaken eggs in the AP, most of the user-base ignoring Holiday breeding week, and there being no point in working with Holiday lineages at that point. And more CB Holidays isn't just for more dragons, its because 2 is such a limiting number for lineages, and the older the Holiday breeds get the smaller the breeding pool through user attrition. Each request is to address specific, PRE-EXISTING problems..... not because we "want more".

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited September 8, 2016 by cyradis4

[Paradisiske]

but the fact remains that the more we are given the more we demand.

Honestly I can see this happening from a good amount of users but the fact is I don't see anything wrong with asking/suggesting/demanding things for this game if it's a benefit got this game. Halloweens have no cb limit so it's not unprecedented. And now we have aeons. If you're worried about influencing now we can use precog to see if we even have to influence first. And there are wonderful people here who help with precog as what with happened to me (thank you so much amazon warrior and Ruby eyes!) Plus they drop over a three day period. They flood the cave. There's nothing wrong with wanting more cb holidays and then if the spriter(s) are okay with it making existing holiday dragons have both genders.

 

 

And yes it's possible to create lineages with drakes now fuzz but there's only so many lineage combinations you can make with the same 6-8 species. Expanding the breeding pool would allow for hundreds of different brand new lineage combinations. And if you don't want to breed your drakes with regular dragons and this gets implemented then just breed your drakes to other drakes?

Edited September 8, 2016 by CellyBean

[Millennium07]

People keep saying 'Oh I see why for two-heads' and the like. Why, exactly? If you're going to say 'Drakes being a different species akin to Gorillas as Dragons are to Humans' isn't a good enough argument, then why would having two heads? They still have one body and so one set of reproductive organs. I literally do not see how you can say 'no drakes' using the argument 'all of their traits barring their brains can be found on other Dragons' while at the same time saying that 'Two-Headed Dragons are fine, they have two heads. If Dragons with two legs and two wings can breed with a dragon with four wings and no legs, or no limbs at all, or four legs and six wings etc, then, following your logic, two-heads shouldn't matter either.

This suggestion would also render the very distinction of 'Drake' moot, seeing as, to facilitate it, they would need to be, essentially, elevated to the status of Dragons-in-all-but-name in the lore (TJ has said, as I do above, that Drakes are, currently, to Gorillas as Dragons are to Humans. Would you breed with a Gorilla, if it was shaved and wore clothes? I'd hope not). As someone has said, I believe, all it would take, physically, is changing a few lines of text. But what it symbolizes is that anyone with the slightest problem with the lore can get it changed.

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal taste. I personally like Drakes. I particularly thing the Glory Drakes are adorable, and have done ever since they were on the Completed List. And I use 'adorable' in the term for a cat. Cute or not, when I look at the Dragons, I see them as what they are meant to be - majestic and mighty beings of wisdom and grace, whereas when looking at the Drakes, I see wild animals, which is again, what they are meant to be. It should thusly, come as no surprise that I'm on team 'do not change', as I generally am in any such conflict.

[cyradis4]

Because Gorillas and Humans have very distinct visual, socialogical, and cultural differences.... And ALL of the characteristics of Drakes can be found in regular dragons. All physical features certainly, and the brains too (there are some terribly stupid breeds out there). I see it as saying Vikings weren't part of Homo Sapiens.... Because they had red hair, while ignoring the fact that the French had red-heads, too!

 

If there were one key feature that the Drakes had just one or two key features that Dragons *didn't*, that would be one thing, but..... They don't. They read more like a sub-set of dragons, like Xenowyrms have 6 "cousin" species..... but are still all Xenos and part of Dragons. All modifications on a basic body-plan with similar characteristics.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Pokemonfan13]

Physical appearance means very little. There are breeds of dog that differ much more in appearance than animals that can't breed, but those breeds of dog can make puppies. (I know it's a bit of a contrived example because the variety of dogs is man-made, but dragons could still be similar in concept. All dragons would be physically very different, but at the same time similar enough where it matters to breed. While drakes are the metaphorical foxes: not any more different in appearance than the variation of the dogs/dragons, but still not able to mate.)

 

What matters is little details like genetics and the reproductive systems and mating practices of the animals involved. Maybe the drakes use pheromones to attract a mate that just completely turn off a dragon. Maybe their egg-making bits are completely incompatible (think ducks and their cork-screws). Maybe they have different numbers of chromosomes, so even if someone tried to force the issue they're completely incompatible. None of that kind of thing could be included in DC lore either because of TMI or being too technical for their medieval level society to know about, but that wouldn't make it any less of a valid reason why the two groups can't breed.

[Obscure_Trash]

Because Gorillas and Humans have very distinct visual, socialogical, and cultural differences.... And ALL of the characteristics of Drakes can be found in regular dragons. All physical features certainly, and the brains too (there are some terribly s****d breeds out there). I see it as saying Vikings weren't part of Homo Sapiens.... Because they had red hair, while ignoring the fact that the French had red-heads, too!

There's so many breeds now that I've lost track of descriptions. Could you list some of the dragons that have the same intelligence level as drakes? Or at least list those that are less intelligent?

 

Also, from what TJ's said before, I think it's more akin to comparing neanderthals to modern humans/homo sapiens than Vikings and homo sapiens, if we have to go that route.

{x} {x}

 

- Give a huge release of just Drakes in ONE month: say 15. But keep regular releases going at the normal rate. Get the base population of breeds up high enough for good diversity, and see where that goes.

 

I'm so for this. Tbh, I'd like it for drakes + 2heads. 2heads don't get quite nearly the same amount of flack that drakes do, but they're still rather limited color-wise. Pygmies are a quite a bit more diverse than either of those, but I wouldn't be opposed to also doing a large release with them in the same style.

 

Only problem is that this involves a large push to get enough cave-ready art in order to make this possible. =x

Edited September 8, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Amaterasu-sama]

I very much agree.  I actually like having different breeding groups, ie pygmies and two heads as well as drakes. I'd be happier if there were more drakes and very happy if it was possible to breed good lineages (not getting the same egg all,the.time.)  But that is another subject. 

 

Maybe we need a couple of all drake releases.

I agree with this and no support from me on this suggestion. Sure I don't work on drake lineages but when I see a pretty drake I collect them. I collect two headed because why not? Pygmies are low on my priority but I will collect them eventually too.

 

Having different breeding groups adds fun to the game. As it is there are countless breeds to support game play for people who want normal breeds. It doesn't hurt to have some special breeds that can't breed with other types. If you dislike these dragons because they are limiting, you can simply collect what defines to you as less limiting. You can always cherry pick what you need and ignore the rest. It's a fun collecting game after all. No one said you have to create all the lineages with all the dragons and try every single combo imaginable.

 

By this logic I want to breed my GoN to my dinos. The dinos are so limiting! Oh and why can't neglected breed and breed more neglected? Why can't we have 50 GON s they are so limiting! What purpose does chicken serve if it can't be used in lineages! (/I am just trying to make a point here... not actually demanding these things)

 

The list of what we want is endless and any suggestion that requires the game to change in an unnatural way (for eg. A breeding group that never bred with normal dragons to suddenly start doing so) will get no support from me.

[Fuzzbucket]

Physical appearance means very little. There are breeds of dog that differ much more in appearance than animals that can't breed, but those breeds of dog can make puppies. (I know it's a bit of a contrived example because the variety of dogs is man-made, but dragons could still be similar in concept. All dragons would be physically very different, but at the same time similar enough where it matters to breed. While drakes are the metaphorical foxes: not any more different in appearance than the variation of the dogs/dragons, but still not able to mate.)

 

What matters is little details like genetics and the reproductive systems and mating practices of the animals involved. Maybe the drakes use pheromones to attract a mate that just completely turn off a dragon. Maybe their egg-making bits are completely incompatible (think ducks and their cork-screws). Maybe they have different numbers of chromosomes, so even if someone tried to force the issue they're completely incompatible. None of that kind of thing could be included in DC lore either because of TMI or being too technical for their medieval level society to know about, but that wouldn't make it any less of a valid reason why the two groups can't breed.

I am totally with Pokemonfan13 on this - AND with Socky on wanting more drakes. I've been delighted that we have got a few more lately, and look forward to many more. Two-heads - I feel the same for those who want bunches of those - they are less my thing, though. Pygmies - middle range for me - I do do lineages, but not as many.

 

And yes to every word of this too.

 

Having different breeding groups adds fun to the game. As it is there are countless breeds to support game play for people who want normal breeds. It doesn't hurt to have some special breeds that can't breed with other types. If you dislike these dragons because they are limiting, you can simply collect what defines to you as less limiting. You can always cherry pick what you need and ignore the rest. It's a fun collecting game after all. No one said you have to create all the lineages with all the dragons and try every single combo imaginable.

[cyradis4]

Having different breeding groups is quite fine, my issue with Drakes is that they are so similar to Dragons... but are all extremely similar to each other, with the only major variation being color and pose.

 

Neos are described as being "very stupid". Maybe not at Drake level, but still very stupid, showing that dragons have a broad range of intelligence, as GoN (who are very smart / powerful demi-gods) will breed with Neos. That's the one that comes to mind, but a couple of other breeds (I'll have to dig them up) also are described as very stupid.

 

And interesting that you should mention Neanderthals.... since about 5% of modern European DNA is *from* Neanderthals. Early Homo-Sapiens could and DID reproduce successfully with Neanderthals.... and its preserved in the species clear to today. Even back then, our species wasn't very selective about just who they reproduced with, I guess.... Now, what we don't know is how successful that reproduction was. Was it 1 in a million? One in a thousand? Was it a common occurrence? For all we know, it was one pair that happened to have a genetic anomaly (mutation, if you will) to be fertile, and it was carried through (sorta like the rare fertile female mule). Or it could have been like Cichlids, the Flowerhorn or Blood-parrot, and be fully fertile all 3 ways with both genders. We can argue genetics till the end of the week, but at the end of the day: This game is Fiction, ie, not reality. Sometimes, gameplay needs to take precedence, and in this case, a small modification to *not in game* lore would greatly expand the utility of Drakes. Its literally *just* their intelligence! Its a couple of words and a tiny bit of lore (can be handled by "it was recently discovered that the previously thought stupid Drakes, while still stupid by dragon standards, aren't nearly as dumb as people thought").

 

As for not collecting Drakes.... That's the problem, I DO love several of the drakes, but there is literally NO lineage combinations that I'd want to do with them. I love Glories, and I love Glaucus, and several of the others are lovely too. So for me just ignoring them really isn't what I want: I want an increased ability to use these dragons.

 

And for that, I've already listed two ways that can be handed:

- Limited fertility with Dragons, say half of all pairs refuse to breed and the rest are sub-fertile with lots of "no interest"

- One HUGE release of Drakes (and Pygmies and Two-Heads), of 15-ish breeds each. (and release several more breeds each year)

 

For the 2nd to work, you'd have to get at least 1 of the 3 sub-groups released a couple times a year, while maintaining the Dragon group releases. Plus you'd have to have the concepts, and with Drakes the group is so brutally limited that the only variation is pose and colors! There aren't many artists who seem able to handle exotic poses, sot hat leaves variations on the basic pose and variations in color for most of them.

 

And we already have issues with a complete dead zone in releases from November to March, so.... I'm not sure how likely it would be to get one huge release, based on the game's history.

 

And just to emphasize:

Pygmies and Two-Heads have as many variations as Dragons so have many options. Drakes, on the other hand, are an extremely limited group and have few options, sprite wise, so I feel pretty certain that even with more dragons in the group, we're likely to still not see many submissions on them because of the difficulty making them unique.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[olympe]

There's so many breeds now that I've lost track of descriptions. Could you list some of the dragons that have the same intelligence level as drakes? Or at least list those that are less intelligent?

 

Also, from what TJ's said before, I think it's more akin to comparing neanderthals to modern humans/homo sapiens than Vikings and homo sapiens, if we have to go that route.

{x} {x}

 

 

 

I'm so for this. Tbh, I'd like it for drakes + 2heads. 2heads don't get quite nearly the same amount of flack that drakes do, but they're still rather limited color-wise. Pygmies are a quite a bit more diverse than either of those, but I wouldn't be opposed to also doing a large release with them in the same style.

 

Only problem is that this involves a large push to get enough cave-ready art in order to make this possible. =x

Well, Neanderthals did breed with modern humans. As did Denisovans...

[Tango]

Thanks for putting several of the things I've thought in such an eloquent manner C4, and to everyone else who supports or brings new points to the discussion.

 

One thing I'd like to ask: What do the people who like separate breeding pools find 'fun' about them? I cannot see any reason.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Tango

[Paradisiske]

Thanks for putting several of the things I've thought in such an eloquent manner C4, and to everyone else who supports or brings new points to the discussion.

 

One thing I'd like to ask: What do the people who like separate breeding pools find 'fun' about them? I cannot see any reason.

i think one of the reasons they like it is because of lore and rp and how its one of the things that makes dc unique im assuming

[silver_tiger]

Yeah, it adds depth to the game. Things can't breed willy-nilly into homogenous slodge, there are (very tiny!) groups that stand apart.

 

What I don't get is why people are arguing so hard to have Drakes incorperated into the main Dragon group. If you don't like them, don't collect them. I am going to actually make collecting my Drake scroll-goals my new priority, so you know. More for me.

Edited September 8, 2016 by silver_chan

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Yeah, it adds depth to the game. Things can't breed willy-nilly into homogenous slodge, there are (very tiny!) groups that stand apart.

 

What I don't get is why people are arguing so hard to have Drakes incorperated into the main Dragon group. If you don't like them, don't collect them. I am going to actually make collecting my Drake scroll-goals my new priority, so you know. More for me.

I'm getting to the point where I might start collecting them more. If the drakes get pulled into breeding with other dragons, I WILL release all my drakes. Every single one for the fact they lost their own breeding pool. Hopefully, it won't get to that point. I'm already lining up a beautiful drake, I contacted Sock about it and hopefully they and I will discuss the uniqueness of my particular drake.

[Tango]

Yeah, it adds depth to the game. Things can't breed willy-nilly into homogenous slodge, there are (very tiny!) groups that stand apart.

 

What I don't get is why people are arguing so hard to have Drakes incorperated into the main Dragon group. If you don't like them, don't collect them. I am going to actually make collecting my Drake scroll-goals my new priority, so you know. More for me.

Well my reasons for wanting drakes breeding with dragons are:

 

1. I don't think they make sense as a breeding group. They don't have enough differences, regular dragons have all the traits drakes have and the only thing that separates them is a couple of lines of text (And C4 pointed out even those traits are found in regular dragons)

 

2. I DO like drakes and would love to breed them with dragons, make nice lineages. The banner in my scroll shows a couple of my favourite would-be pairs.

 

3. I think this is the best way to solve the problem of drakes being mostly unloved because of their limited breeding pool. Drakes are too limited when it comes to dragon design, so not many people make them. Why would you make a drake when you can label it as a dragon and have to have so many more options anyway?

 

Those are the main three points. I do wish people would stop implying that I don't like drakes, and that I should ignore them if I don't want them. It is because I like drakes I made this suggestion, I want them to be loved and used. I don't like the separate breeding group.

 

If the drakes get pulled into breeding with other dragons, I WILL release all my drakes. Every single one for the fact they lost their own breeding pool.

 

This is just cutting off your own nose despite your face. If you would be so insulted by this update you'd do that, you do you but the times you've said this seem like you're threatening this? Like 'don't do this or I'll release my dragons' I could be wrong, but it doesn't have a place in the debate. I understand not everyone wants this update. That's why were discussing it.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Tango

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Well my reasons for wanting drakes breeding with dragons are:

 

1. I don't think they make sense as a breeding group. They don't have enough differences, regular dragons have all the traits drakes have and the only thing that separates them is a couple of lines of text (And C4 pointed out even those traits are found in regular dragons)

 

2. I DO like drakes and would love to breed them with dragons, make nice lineages. The banner in my scroll shows a couple of my favourite would-be pairs.

 

3. I think this is the best way to solve the problem of drakes being mostly unloved because of their limited breeding pool. Drakes are too limited when it comes to dragon design, so not many people make them. Why would you make a drake when you can label it as a dragon and have to have so many more options anyway?

 

Those are the main three points. I do wish people would stop implying that I don't like drakes, and that I should ignore them if I don't want them. It is because I like drakes I made this suggestion, I want them to be loved and used. I don't like the separate breeding group.

 

 

 

This is just cutting off your own nose despite your face. If you would be so insulted by this update you'd do that, you do you but the times you've said this seem like you're threatening this? Like 'don't do this or I'll release my dragons' I could be wrong, but it doesn't have a place in the debate. I understand not everyone wants this update. That's why were discussing it.

What if the faces become more bat like then dragon, but still holding the dragon snout? I really would drop the drakes because then instead of having drakes, there'd be just be dragons, pygmies, and 2heads. Would the names change to dragons? Would they stay at drakes? I would hate to make my lovely drake dragon just for it to have it breed with other dragons besides drakes as it was going to be intended. If TJ goes along with this, I'll scrape the project and possibly refuse to any other dragon because of the breeding pool for dragons is too big.

 

Drakes don't get a lot of attention, but it's nabbing my attention now because of this thread. This thread is making me love drakes.

[cyradis4]

I'm getting to the point where I might start collecting them more. If the drakes get pulled into breeding with other dragons, I WILL release all my drakes. Every single one for the fact they lost their own breeding pool. Hopefully, it won't get to that point. I'm already lining up a beautiful drake, I contacted Sock about it and hopefully they and I will discuss the uniqueness of my particular drake.

Raptor:

What if we did neither?

 

You have made no comment on the sub-fertile idea I put forward: Where Drakes would breed normally within their own sub-set, but have a very high refusal rate / low egg generation rate when bred to normal dragons?

 

It still keeps almost all of the lore: they are a closely related cousin breed, and while many dragons will NOT breed with them, many will. They are genetically different BUT still close enough to produce fertile offspring with Dragons.

 

And it follows *right* along with evolution:

Drakes are a recent "branch" off of Dragons, so they still share all of the same characteristics BUT they are not as fertile with regular Dragons as with each other (speciation has started) and *prefer* their own group (and dragons prefer their own group) but can in captivity breed with Dragons (sort of like horses, donkeys, and Zebras only closer-related).

 

Pygmies and Two-Heads branched off from Dragons longer ago, and as a result have developed many very different body plans that can breed inside the group but are genetically different enough from Dragons that they can't cross breed anymore.

 

It keeps them separate while still greatly expanding their usability. The people who really want them to create lineages will (but it will be hard).

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Tango]

What if the faces become more bat like then dragon, but still holding the dragon snout? I really would drop the drakes because then instead of having drakes, there'd be just be dragons, pygmies, and 2heads. Would the names change to dragons? Would they stay at drakes? I would hate to make my lovely drake dragon just for it to have it breed with other dragons besides drakes as it was going to be intended. If TJ goes along with this, I'll scrape the project and possibly refuse to any other dragon because of the breeding pool for dragons is too big.

 

Drakes don't get a lot of attention, but it's nabbing my attention now because of this thread. This thread is making me love drakes.

I think for drakes to be a separate species, they'd need a trait regular dragons don't have and could not have. I'm not sure what a bat face would look like or if you'd be able to tell the differences.

 

No I don't want to change the drakes names, I see drakes are more of a 'type' of dragon. Like wyrms, eastersn and such. I would support a decreased chance of getting an egg or increased chance of refusals to further emphasis drakes are different.

 

I do see why people would want drakes to remain separate, the huge pool of regular dragons can be quite daunting when looking for nice pairs. Personally I see that as an adventure though, finding pairing no one really does but look spectacular but I get why people wouldn't want that. And it's good that if this thread has done anything, it's made another fan of drakes! Even if we disagree about their future.

[Paradisiske]

wyrms and amphiteres are all part of the regular breeding group so i see no reason why if drakes got added into that they wouldnt be called howler drakes or greater spotted drakes when skywings and sunsongs are called amphiteres and xenos are called wyrms despite not being the typical eastern or western dragon.

 

 

it seems a bit overkill to say you'll release all your drakes if this gets implemented. just dont breed them to other dragons besides drake problem solved

 

and just because me and tango and other people want this implemented does NOT mean we dont like drakes. i like drakes and i think night glories and kingcrownes would look good with each other. but i cant create second gens and third gens because of the drakes restricted limiting breeding pool hence why i want this implemented.

 

i dont understand what you mean by the breeding pool is to big could you please clarify?

[Pokemonfan13]

Physical appearance means very little. There are breeds of dog that differ much more in appearance than animals that can't breed, but those breeds of dog can make puppies. (I know it's a bit of a contrived example because the variety of dogs is man-made, but dragons could still be similar in concept. All dragons would be physically very different, but at the same time similar enough where it matters to breed. While drakes are the metaphorical foxes: not any more different in appearance than the variation of the dogs/dragons, but still not able to mate.)

 

What matters is little details like genetics and the reproductive systems and mating practices of the animals involved. Maybe the drakes use pheromones to attract a mate that just completely turn off a dragon. Maybe their egg-making bits are completely incompatible (think ducks and their cork-screws). Maybe they have different numbers of chromosomes, so even if someone tried to force the issue they're completely incompatible. None of that kind of thing could be included in DC lore either because of TMI or being too technical for their medieval level society to know about, but that wouldn't make it any less of a valid reason why the two groups can't breed.

I'm quoting this again because it seems like everyone jumped on Sock's poorly chosen Neanderthal comment and ignored this (except Fuzz).

 

It doesn't MATTER if there isn't a -significant- physical difference between dragons and drakes. The physical difference between wolves and foxes really isn't much more than dragons and drakes, the main part being that foxes are smaller. But wolves can't mate with foxes. The pro people can pull out maybe a few dozen examples of different species that can breed and sometimes maybe even produce fertile offspring, but there are many many more examples of species that are just as similar physically as the ones that can mate, but can't.

[Tango]

If you argue that drakes can't breed with dragons because of their biological difference, you can't ignore the fact that regular dragons wouldn't be able to breed. There are no species with different amounts of legs or different skin (Fluff, scales, feathers) that can breed together. At a certain point we have to accept this is a fantasy game and the only thing stopping certain dragons breeding together is TJ. Two of the current breeding groups make some sort of sense, drakes don't in terms of physical appearance which in a game based around design means a lot.