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Remove drake breeding

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Love the doodlies, Odeen. And it just goes to prove that there's plenty of variety possible within the drake guidelines.

 

I said before but don't mind repeating: the way to solve the apparent lack of appreciation for drakes is to release more of them, not change the concept behind them. Then there will be more flexibility in lineages.

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I said before but don't mind repeating: the way to solve the apparent lack of appreciation for drakes is to release more of them, not change the concept behind them. Then there will be more flexibility in lineages.

Agree 100% with this!

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This just occurred to me: People keep comparing Drakes to Two-headeds and Pygmies, but what you're all forgetting is that originally there were only one each of those two subbreeds. They were (and still are) literally called the Two-headeds and the Pygmies. TJ even has a PB breeding pair of each on the Thuwed page. But people love Two-headeds and Pygmies now, even though originally they were in the exact same boat as Drakes. Heck there still aren't that many Two-headeds breeds, I think like 5.

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user posted image

 

I drew all of these in about half an hour. They're very bad and simplistic, and none of them have anything resembling a concept, but they're also all drakes and all distinct creatures.

In some weird way, the top one looks like Toothless, just saying.

 

But pretty smile.gif

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As nice as Odeens sketches are, they still don't make drakes less limited completely. The main reason drakes are restricted is because they can only have one body shape. They can be bulky, have fins, somewhat differently shaped wings but they will never be as diverse as regular dragons or have the potential pygmies or two headeds have. The other three categories can have the changes drakes have AND MORE.

 

 

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As nice as Odeens sketches are, they still don't make drakes less limited completely. The main reason drakes are restricted is because they can only have one body shape. They can be bulky, have fins, somewhat differently shaped wings but they will never be as diverse as regular dragons or have the potential pygmies or two headeds have. The other three categories can have the changes drakes have AND MORE.

So, that was the main issue you had with drakes? Only one body type?

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So, that was the main issue you had with drakes? Only one body type?

I think that's the main thing that limits them in terms of design. Their other limitation is that everything that defines drakes can be found in regular dragons, so they're not even unique.

 

Their limiting design (And how it affects their popularity) is only one of the reasons I think drakes should be able to breed with dragons though.

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If you hate drakes so much, ignore them. Other people like them just as they are.

I agree. I had no qualms with these dragons and I basically ignored them, I'm starting to adore them

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user posted image

 

I drew all of these in about half an hour. They're very bad and simplistic, and none of them have anything resembling a concept, but they're also all drakes and all distinct creatures.

Poke Poke. Do it, Odeen!

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If you hate drakes so much, ignore them. Other people like them just as they are.

It's not about hating drakes, it's about not liking the way they work.

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But you can't have it both ways. Either they're a separate thing with something special about them or they aren't. And what makes drakes drakes is the very limitations in design that are being railed against. So therefore they hate drakes.

 

Pygmies and two-heads both happen to have a very simple thing that defines their species, size and two heads respectively. That means that every other thing about them can vary and they are still what they are. Drakes happen to have a more complex category distinction that limits creativity a bit. But that doesn't mean that they are BAD.

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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But you can't have it both ways. Either they're a separate thing with something special about them or they aren't. And what makes drakes drakes is the very limitations in design that are being railed against. So therefore they hate drakes.

I disagree. Very much so. Wyverns, lindwurms, leviathans, amphipteres, etc. all have obvious/striking design limitations/differences from westerns but they aren't their own breeding group. Them not being their own breeding group doesn't change the fact that they are special. Drakes could be in the same breeding group with the same physical limitations.

 

As I said, I do not think this is going to happen and I would rather just focus on releasing more drakes, but people are allowed to have an opinion. Telling people to ignore drakes instead of making suggestions regarding them is kind of like telling people to quit the game because they don't like every single aspect of it, something I've never been a fan of. Clearly, they do care and they do like drakes (they want to be able to actually do things with them) or they wouldn't be posting. =|

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I didn't think I was suggesting that any opinions were wrong. Just that there seemed to be so much anger and frustration about the very nature of drakes (and the fact that they couldn't be wyrms and such like the other limited breeding groups), it seemed like ignoring them (since they ARE such a small portion of the site) and letting the people who did like them as they were enjoy them was a reasonable solution. Especially since making it so that they COULD be all the other body types would absolutely destroy them actually being drakes and change them into something else.

 

I also like the solution of releasing more drakes best.

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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But you can't have it both ways. Either they're a separate thing with something special about them or they aren't. And what makes drakes drakes is the very limitations in design that are being railed against. So therefore they hate drakes.

 

Pygmies and two-heads both happen to have a very simple thing that defines their species, size and two heads respectively. That means that every other thing about them can vary and they are still what they are. Drakes happen to have a more complex category distinction that limits creativity a bit. But that doesn't mean that they are BAD.

That's a logical fallacy. You went A then B so G, when really you needed to stop at C.

 

What people are railing about with Drakes is how limited the breeding pool is, not the concept of Drakes themselves, or separate breeding groups. There are two basic suggestions to address this extremely specific issue. Both ideas would requite small changes to "typical" Drake-ish-ness:

 

- More variety in Drakes: you'd end up with Drakes that look like Odeen's pretties (totally want 1 and 3, Odeen!). They technically qualify as drakes... but they don't *look* like classical drakes. Course you'd have to add 10+ of the new ones to really have an affect.

 

- Add them as a sub-group to Dragons, just like Xenowyrms are a sub-group, only Drakes are a larger group that can be added to. You can give them a decreased fertility out of their specific group, and if you wanted could keep them all true to Dovealove's original "rules" rather than the current, more relaxed ones. The only change would be an increase in their intelligence to very very stupid dragon levels, and being able to breed to dragons.

 

Like I said, you are equating not liking a part to hating the whole. Guess what? You can hate the hair color of someone... but still love them.

 

In short:

You can dislike a part of something with out hating the whole. And you can certainly feel that improvements can be made to parts while still loving the whole.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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This just occurred to me: People keep comparing Drakes to Two-headeds and Pygmies, but what you're all forgetting is that originally there were only one each of those two subbreeds. They were (and still are) literally called the Two-headeds and the Pygmies. TJ even has a PB breeding pair of each on the Thuwed page. But people love Two-headeds and Pygmies now, even though originally they were in the exact same boat as Drakes. Heck there still aren't that many Two-headeds breeds, I think like 5.

I'm not sure what the point of this was, but I'll counter it: Ochredrakes were the original Drake, and they were probably only called Ochredrakes instead of straight-up 'Drake' to reduce confusion about the whole... true definition of 'drake' or whatever people keep getting confused about. Anyway.

 

Day/Night Glories weren't released until a full year after Ochredrakes, and each of the subgroups actually has more than five, but all of them have less than 10. Pygmies have the most. These groups are pretty much in the same exact boat, but Pygmies and Two-headeds have more visible reasons to be in their own breeding group than Drakes do.

Edited by silver_chan

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In some weird way, the top one looks like Toothless, just saying.

 

But pretty smile.gif

Oooh Toothless. DO WANT! And he would SO be a drake.

 

But as odeen has shown, there's plenty of scope, so as people have said - you no like, you no hoard. Simple smile.gif

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I hate when people say "DON'T LIKE? DON'T LOOK!". To me, it's the same as saying "I DON'T LIKE YOUR OPINION SO SHUT UP!", even when it's not meant to be.

 

Now, back on topic; when it comes to removal of drake classification, I personally don't see it happening any time soon (if ever), but I can see why people would want it to happen. I even agree, though I would be happy either way. I am just of the opinion that SOMETHING needs doing.

 

The best option right now is to add more Drakes, and has Odeen has shown with those lovely sketches (seriously, can we get that last one as a real dragon please? xd.png), even with the limited criteria they can be immensely diverse. The problem is just getting people who are willing to work on them, from basic concept up to final sprites.

 

And this is where I partially agree with PokemonFan; Drakes having more complex criteria doesn't make them bad, but what might do is make people less willing to work on them due to being unsure as to whether or not they'd meet the criteria, not because the criteria isn't clear, but because everyone still has their own opinion on what Drakes should be. Again, look at Odeen's sketches. To some of us, they're Drakes, but to others, they're not Drakes.

I know we have Dovealove's criteria, but has it ever been set in official stone what classifies a Drake? (I'm asking this because I genuinely don't know.)

 

If you could somehow address the issues, like of differing opinions on what makes a Drake, then I think more people would work on them (I know I have a few ideas I'd love to work on.)

Edited by CharonDusk

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I disagree. Very much so. Wyverns, lindwurms, leviathans, amphipteres, etc. all have obvious/striking design limitations/differences from westerns but they aren't their own breeding group. Them not being their own breeding group doesn't change the fact that they are special. Drakes could be in the same breeding group with the same physical limitations.

 

As I said, I do not think this is going to happen and I would rather just focus on releasing more drakes, but people are allowed to have an opinion. Telling people to ignore drakes instead of making suggestions regarding them is kind of like telling people to quit the game because they don't like every single aspect of it, something I've never been a fan of. Clearly, they do care and they do like drakes (they want to be able to actually do things with them) or they wouldn't be posting. =|

Exactly - all of this...

 

 

if DC drakes could at least have the wyrm/wyvern etc. sub-types like the 3 other breeding groups but no, they can't, or the only definging trait left will be antlers, and if struts on the tail(or/and part of the back)aren't a must for drakes(this is why I have doubts about Odeens doodle no1 - lack of these, while they are present in ALL in-cave drakes -right?- and make them stand out this tiny bit, though this trait can be used for other dragons too) then well... drakes aren't distinctive enough, not visually/anatomically. ^^;

We can have 2 headed or pygmy lindwurms, wyrms, amphipteres, easterns, wyverns etc. and can put any kind of decorative thing onto their head(horns/antlers/none/spike crowns) but we can't have this diversity in DC drakes... we can just change the proportions of a western dragon with antlers and wings with no wing fingers (and I believe the struts are mandatory too... or at least should be kept mandatory now when it's not too late yet). We can't add or remove a limb unlike all 3 other breeding groups.

 

And yes, it's all about how they breed I beleive^^; I just could never see why drakes are separated here(even if this doesn't affect my gameplay even in the slightest), even now I know the lore behind them thanks to the forums, I don't think it's big enough or not possible to change very easly - editing the text of like 1 DC drake dragon maybe? you know about the level/kind of intellingence and the exact size

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Drake requirements were significantly relaxed a year or two ago? the *last* time this topic came up. So Dove's are no longer the controlling requirements, the ones Odeen quoted are.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Personaly, I think TJ should add some more drakes to the game.

I agree. I really don't think TJ will merge Drakes with the main Dragon breeding group, mostly because he's said before that he kind of wishes that he'd had more individual breeding groups (but that he wouldn't separate things this late into the game), plus the new egg type for Drakes.

 

But hey if I'm wrong and he does, sure that's fine. It's his game. I'll be a little disappointed but not to the point where I abandon my Drakes or anything like that. But like I said, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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I agree. I really don't think TJ will merge Drakes with the main Dragon breeding group, mostly because he's said before that he kind of wishes that he'd had more individual breeding groups (but that he wouldn't separate things this late into the game), plus the new egg type for Drakes.

 

But hey if I'm wrong and he does, sure that's fine. It's his game. I'll be a little disappointed but not to the point where I abandon my Drakes or anything like that. But like I said, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Honestly? You're probably right.

 

But then I come back to the little fact that, when the "raise Holiday limits" thread came out, TJ was on record as having said, some time previously, "wasn't happening". And it took an incredibly long time, (that thread was huge and old) but eventually... The change was made and its been very much to the betterment of the game, in the end.

 

And even if we don't end up with the OP's suggestion, the fact that there IS a problem in need of solution is now in the front and center, and has been shown through posts to be a Concern... making it much more likely that something will happen that will ease the situation.

 

*eyes Odeen's prettys* would love for them to be something that would happen.... And would love to see other artists try wildly different sketches that still fit the "drake" relaxed criteria.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Honestly? You're probably right.

 

But then I come back to the little fact that, when the "raise Holiday limits" thread came out, TJ was on record as having said, some time previously, "wasn't happening". And it took an incredibly long time, (that thread was huge and old) but eventually... The change was made and its been very much to the betterment of the game, in the end.

 

And even if we don't end up with the OP's suggestion, the fact that there IS a problem in need of solution is now in the front and center, and has been shown through posts to be a Concern... making it much more likely that something will happen that will ease the situation.

 

*eyes Odeen's prettys* would love for them to be something that would happen.... And would love to see other artists try wildly different sketches that still fit the "drake" relaxed criteria.

 

Cheers!

C4.

You have good points as well! In any case, even if the Drakes end up being merged, I'd love to see the group expanded upon--just like I want to see more Wyrms, Lindwurms, and all the rest of the Dragon sub-groups within the main Dragon category.

 

Hopefully more people will put their talents toward new and interesting Drakes. I wish I could as well, but I can't draw to save my life.

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I don't expect this change to happen anytime soon even if TJ does want it, and until he comments we have no idea what he currently thinks. Even suggestions that are very popular and supported by the majority take years to be implemented *cough*store*cough* and this one is pretty debated. I do think this suggestion could improve the game even if in the future we did have some more drakes, as I still believe their breeding group isn't exclusive enough to warrant it and the current drake guidelines are too restrictive.

 

Also, on a personal note, some dragon x drake pairs are beautiful.

 

 

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