Option to view updated sprites differently

[NotBambi]

Whenever people post lineages that have been "ruined," I can't help to think how fantastic they look!

Same here. Oh well...

[Tehya Faye]

I can sympathize a bit with the ruined lineage view, even if I personally like the lineages they are posting as an example. You put time into building a lineage because there's just something about it that really appeals to you, and if the new sprite looks very different the lineage is no longer a perfect reflection of your personal tastes. It still looks very pretty, yes, but your own lineages get judged more harshly because they represent you.

[KageSora]

That is true, Kage.  But you didn't quote the part that said silvers are an anomaly in the form of updates, and it's silvers that have caused this fear.

Anomaly they may be, but isolated anomaly they are not. The golds also had quite the uproar. Multiple people have cited strong negative feelings about the Nilia update with the dimorphism causing changes to their lineages.

 

We have now at least three examples in which drastic changes to the sprites altered the views of lineages, negatively impacting players who are, as such, strongly upset about it. Needed or not in the above three cases isn't the point--the point is that incredibly dramatic changes that caused people to be deeply upset and feel their lineages were ruined have happened more than once in the past, and as such there's no reason not to think they won't ever happen again.

 

You do not have to be an art critic or anatomy expert to be able to pick out the dragons that are less likely to have drastic updates, or any at all. Those that are less likely to be updated have more "realism", they have more detail in the sprite and the shading. If nothing else, look at the before and after of a few updated dragons and you'll get the idea of what to look for.

This, again, is exactly 0% reassuring. After all, if you have a favored dragon that falls into one of these categories you run the risk of a gold or silver-level update happening to it that may very well destroy a prized lineage.

 

Additionally, the longer the sprite is around the more time people have to become attached to it or invested in lineages using it.

 

If you are specifically trying to pick dragons that are not going to ruin future lineages, a feature that could be a warning sign is if the dragon has only one adult sprite for both genders. Way back when, it was only silvers that had different sprites for male and female, and some dragons have been gaining dimorphism since.

Sadly this advice is completely useless if you already have a lineage started. Or your favorite sprite is one of those "at risk" sprites. You'll just have to abandon any ideas of using your favorite dragon in a lineage unless you want the risk of potentially months or years of work being ruined in an instant.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Stupid mobile deleting my post...

 

Ugh anyway, yes, even if shock updates like the nilias are uncommon, they have occurred several times in the past and it does give lineage building (and, heck, even dragon collecting in general) an unpleasant air of uncertainty. Even if I know the risk is small, it still exists, and the bland (or even outright disdainful, from some players) response to users complaining doesn't breed an air of reassurance. Obviously I'll still keep making lines, the vast majority of which will remain totally intact, but when things do go drastic it's going to drive me crazy every time it happens.

 

I don't really think anything is going to be done about past updates at this point, but I'd still breathe easier if:

1) We were told exactly which sprites were candidates for updates

2) We were assured that sprites not on that list, future and present, wouldn't receive any update more drastic than those done to, say, female purples or the original water dragon sprite

 

This would allow TJ to keep updating the oldest sprites AND let spriters feel they can tweak things about their old sprites that later bother them without anything going drastically different (well, except the to be updated ones, but at least we'd KNOW what to expect). I mean... I have attachments to the old sprites, too, and even when updates are done amazingly, like the hollies, I can and do miss the old for a variety of reasons. But at the same time I know some of the oldest sprites were made under very different standards (limited color palettes, quickly done to replace the original copyright sprites, made when DC was smaller and had less of a pool of artists to draw from, etc), and understand why TJ / artists would want them modernized. However, I also think all the sprites released in the past five or six years have been superb, and thus don't have really justifiable reasons for updates. I don't think dimorphism is a good cause, either. It can be cool, of course, but there are plenty of neat sprites without it (xenos--at least gender wise--royal crimsons, fevers, frostbites, kind of pyralspites), and purebred lines with all the same look can be really cool. Non-dimorphic sprites aren't inherently broken.

Edited December 14, 2015 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Pokemonfan13]

Kage, why are you harping on the fact that my recent posts are worthless to existing lineages? My posts were specifically responding to the people who have posted worrying about building future lineages and that those lineages would be "ruined" with updates like the silvers, and I'm trying to give advice on what to choose to reduce the risk of that, and you're tearing them apart on points that are completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about. It is true that my posts don't help people who are worried about existing lineages (unless they just happen to be made from dragons that fit my description of dragons unlikely to be updated), but they were never intended to.

 

 

Angelic, that is a good idea. I hope TJ does something like you suggest. It would be pretty easy to pick out the update candidates that are most likely to have serious updates, and the artists would be able to say if they have any plans for future dimorphism, which would be the main disruptive update for more recently released sprites. Either that or it would be decided that any sprite released after X that doesn't have dimorphism will never have dimorphism.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Pokemonfan13

[NotBambi]

I don't really think anything is going to be done about past updates at this point, but I'd still breathe easier if:

1) We were told exactly which sprites were candidates for updates

2) We were assured that sprites not on that list, future and present, wouldn't receive any update more drastic than those done to, say, female purples or the original water dragon sprite

Frankly, I think that is unlikely that TJ will be providing such detailed information. Unless he wants to deal with a bunch of posts from the "vocal" members that do not want any change. The update of the Silvers was announced, did that change anything? Also, maybe he does not have yet that detailed information and is going through the process to choose what to update.

 

He already provided quite a bit of information, people should know what to expect:

Which means that any "newer" breed—or really, any of them released in the past four or five years, which can hardly be considered "new"—is extremely unlikely to be changed, just by raw statistics. And they're not just empty numbers; there's simply no real reason to consider drastic updates to the newer sprites.

So... Released in the past four or five years, unlikely to be changed. Otherwise, yes they could.

Edited December 14, 2015 by NotBambi

[evinin]

Oh, please, let there be an option to change them back if we wish. My male silver is one of my two most favourite dragons and dragon designs and even though the new one looks fancy, I just want my old dragon back... I hated it when they changed the gold dragon so much. I really want to have the old spirtes back.

[mermaid]

Oh, please, let there be an option to change them back if we wish. My male silver is one of my two most favourite dragons and dragon designs and even though the new one looks fancy, I just want my old dragon back... I hated it when they changed the gold dragon so much. I really want to have the old spirtes back.

Same here, I have a ton of slivers since I bred them exclusively in the beginning and I just now noticed the change and I was all "MY SILVERS!?!?!?!?! NOOOOOOO" :'(

[Predat0rs]

As someone who loves change, good or bad, I am going to say "No" to this particular suggestion.

 

I absolutely adore them. By them I mean the new Silvers. The "ruined" lineages I also think look pretty good But personal opinions are always going to differ from each person.

 

Even if I hated the new Sprite, I still wouldn't want to see this implemented.

[XiziX]

+1 Support this suggestion.

 

Sorry, but I am not a fan of the new sprites. Most of my thoughts on the matter have already been expressed, but I am just adding myself as another member eyeing this thread.

 

Heres to hoping. Sprite Swapping seems like a decent idea. Similar to switching scroll skins. But I get coding is a pain. Oh do I. The memories of my coding classes still haunt me.

 

Edit: If I recall the thread correctly that had a few artists doing re-makes of the silvers, I did see some ones in there that followed along the lines of 'staying the same, but had slight changes'. Part of me may have preferred those over these, but I think that bounces back to the minor topic in this thread that was mentioned.

 

Keep new sprites extremely close to the old ones.

 

Edited January 13, 2016 by Lyxii

[Fuzzbucket]

Keep new sprites extremely close to the old ones.

Even though I still prefer the old ones - I have to say that the new ones ARE very close to those. It's the shiny shockiness that still grates on me a bit (I like my silver bugged to a matte shine !) - and the SLIGHT change of colour in the blue.

[TricksterWhiskers13]

As someone who loves change, good or bad, I am going to say "No" to this particular suggestion.

 

I absolutely adore them. By them I mean the new Silvers. The "ruined" lineages I also think look pretty good But personal opinions are always going to differ from each person.

 

Even if I hated the new Sprite, I still wouldn't want to see this implemented.

Why? It wouldn't affect you. You would simply have to not click the option in settings. Keeping other people from having something they want just because it's not something you will be utilizing is selfish in a nonsensical way.

 

I support this! Give me the option so see the old Nilia Pygmies, pretty please, because they were one of my favorite pygmies and looked much more elegant.

 

Also, an extra way to personalize our accounts wouldn't hurt the site.

[VixenDra]

I don't like the new Nilias for the female's creepy long legs... The old sprites were all fine and were not of a poorer quality than the game's recent average. I'd definitely prefer the old Nilias even though I'm pro sprite dimorfism for all breeds:P Or maybe at least the male sprite being the only one.

But alctually all the other sprite updates were for good... I mean the sprites are better in terms of quality, anatomy, level of detail etc. and I can't wait to see twaks on quite a few of other breeds^^;

 

Maybe someone would be able to create some browser addon that replaces chosen sprites to other chosen image? I remember seing such things for other sites, so maybe that would be possible to code for DC too?

Edited January 30, 2016 by VixenDra

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe someone would be able to create some browser addon that replaces chosen sprites to other chosen image? I remember seing such things for other sites, so maybe that would be possible to code for DC too?

I am pretty sure that browser addons that did this would be against the rules, even though they wouldn't offer a game advantage. Also I think you would need artist permission - and some artists have already said they don't want their old sprites showing.

[Amaterasu-sama]

It seems to me like I am bumping an old topic but considering its not locked, I am assuming it's still open to discussion? I fully support OP's suggestion about legacy view or better still, I would prefer what's already there on people's scroll aren't forcefully taken away from them and older breed are phased out like old pink to make way for new ones. Minor updates are okay but some of the updates make the dragons essentially look like a completely different one altogether. (Most notably silver).

 

So a workable solution to this is still very much needed.

[olympe]

Frankly, retirement in old pink style is so not an option IMHO because it will only increase drama, the feeling of being left out for newer players and trading issues that I don't think we should even discuss it.

[bob_jones]

No support from me.

People complain loudly every time there's a sprite update, no matter what. If every single sprite update was accompanied with an option to view the original sprite, then what would be the point of updating at all? The complainers always die down and get used to it after a while. That's just a side effect of changing anything on a site where people loudly protest change.

 

[VixenDra]

Also with Bright Pinks this is no longer true. They were re-released and ALL UPDATED.

 

So yeah, there are no longer such sprites in the game, thankfully.

And let's not ruin the current retirement-free DC, pelase.

 

 

BTW really, most of the updates are for the better... I mean the sprite quality is rised. I only hate the Nhilia update, it's not better at all and the female looks so creepy and poorly proportioned compared to the original (the new one has uneven limbs in the right-left dimension), but the rest? All are better, just maybe the Gilded Bloodscale is like in the middle - some of the changes are to better some are to the worse(like the more cartoony/cell shaded wings and male's hand but the rest is fine).

Silvers are now WAY better and still looks like the same dragon, really and not just pose-wise but everything, it's simply with fixed mistakes better shading...

GoN improved a bit indeed, ...

 

Just look at how many sprite updates there were guys, you DON'T want all those to stay as retired... Many of the updates is so minor that hardly anyone would notice there were any exept maybe 'hm, I think that sprite didn't look so well before but I can't really tell what changed.'

 

A few examples of updated sprites?

GoN, Pillow, Frill, Bright Pink, Zombie, Almandine(yes!), Gilded Bloodscale, Nhilia, Horse, Holly, Two-Headed, Silver, and these are all only after I joined the game (March 2013) and I know there were more, starting with those replaced due to copyright issues!

And really, from all of these like 1-2 can be named that can be considered a change to the worse quality/anatomy, really... And yeah, even I don't like 100% and believe 1 to be changed into MUCH worse while loosing way too much of the original dragon but well, I'm still against.

 

I'm strongly against retiring of anything and for plenty of duplicates of nearly the same thing but just poorer quality. Everyone should have a chance to collect all sprites others have, no matter in they joined in 2008 or 2017.

 

I'm only for the Encyclopeadia having all old sprites listed (expept for those with copyright issues ofc) like the Frills have.

 

and all that I could add would be a restriction to sprite updates - any major changes of the dragon design and pose shouldn't be allowed - only the improvement of the anatomy, shading, proportions and detail level and/or adding additional sprite for dimporphism. So basically what was done to Splits, Sillvers etc. and Frills, Horses etc. is okay but what was done to Nhilia pygmies shouldn't be - the pose was changed drastically and the sprite(anatomy, proportions, etc.) doesn't feel improved - the dragon was simply trashed and done again. But then TJ would have to make this rule in that agreement the artists must sign.

 

[olympe]

Well, there was the gold update, which was quite drastic. All for the better, true, but the look of the golds changed considerably.

 

Shadow Walkers were updated shortly after their release, too. Something about their tail looked quite off originally.

 

Sunrise and Sunset dragons got updated way back when. Ochredrakes, Purples, Waters, Whiptails and Horses had a small update a while back. Neos were also changed when they got dimorphism, but the female is still very close to the original sprite.

[Wymsical]

Another big factor about sprite updates is that improvements to sprites make the game more appealing to people. I know of at least one person that liked DC as a concept but didn't join for the longest while because they didn't like the quality of the sprites on the site. I've also lurked on some random DC threads on other communities that often wished that more sprites would be updated.

 

While I understand why people get upset when something changes, the fact of the matter is that what's most important at the end of the day is how the site is perceived by not just some of the users within that site's community, but how others not as directly involved in the DC community itself perceive it as well. If a site has attractive visuals, it's more likely to garner and keep users.

[Fuzzbucket]

Another big factor about sprite updates is that improvements to sprites make the game more appealing to people.

ER - not that I want to stir, but not all of us see EVERY update as an "improvement" - as in there are a couple that I personally would class as "disimprovements" (and while I am still upset over the golds, I don't actually mean them.). I do know people who have almost left over the silvers, for instance - and whether or not it was objectively (no such thing) an improvement, clearly many did not see it that way.

 

I would have said almost all sprites ARE attractive visuals, and that updates are not something that significantly affect most people who join/consider joining; I'd say they have more effect in terms of people leaving.

[Dragon_Arbock]

As a spriter, the new Silvers definitely are objectively better. I can understand why people would be attached to the old ones though- but that they were flawed is no question. Now.. the new egg I don't like so much, but those don't stick around very long anyway.

An option so utilize retro sprites though I don't see as being too much to ask for.. but moreso, knowing TJ.. just probably won't ever happen.

[gigglymonkey12]

No support from me.

People complain loudly every time there's a sprite update, no matter what. If every single sprite update was accompanied with an option to view the original sprite, then what would be the point of updating at all? The complainers always die down and get used to it after a while. That's just a side effect of changing anything on a site where people loudly protest change.

I agree. I can't imagine all the coding that would have to be done in order to accommodate every single update and what happens when a dragon gets a second sprite update? Would there be an option to see all three versions (original, 1st update and newest update).

 

Honestly, I do miss some of the old sprites...but having an option to switch between old and new sprites sounds like a lot of coding to be doing.

[silver_tiger]

I like the idea of the older sprites being compiled in the encyclopedia entries (other than anything changed due to copyright, of course), hopefully unlocked for everyone so that we don't have a bunch of shadows there! That would be annoying, lol.

 

Other than that, though, no support. I did a dance of joy when the Golds were updated, and while I am far less happy with the way Silvers now look, I am willing to acknowledge that they are now as shiny as a Silver thing ought to be. Every sprite change is going to have its fans as well as people who don't like it, and while we can argue about this point until the cows come home, I personally feel that an artist has the right to change their work if they feel it is necessary.

 

Finally, I suppose I could be wrong about this, but I just don't see TJ giving us this option. It seems like a lot of coding work and the artists that resprited probably wouldn't give their permission anyway.

[Fuzzbucket]

They are all in the wiki anyway so I really can't see the need.