Limit AP eggs by breeder

[Mika]

Putting a sort of checker in the AP and limiting the number of eggs from any one person at a time seems a bit... extraneous. If it became so much of an issue that something had to be done (I'm talking a very extreme case) something more like limiting the number of eggs a person can receive through breeding every 24 hours seems more logical and straightforward. There would of course still be ways to block the AP even with that in place, like through a coordinated massbreeding.

 

I'm not saying anything needs to be done now or in the foreseeable future, I'm just saying there seem to be easier ways to go about things if it was absolutely necessary to do so.

[Guillotine]

If massbred walls became a common issue I'd be for this, but as-is I don't think it'd have much effect so it's probably not worth the time spent to implement it.

[Syphoneira]

AND here is the thing too. I DON'T feel that those that do mass breed generally do it out of malice.

 

( There may be those jerks that DO of course BUT I don't believe that they are in the majority) It may BE that when they breed... perhaps to see if they CAN create an egg wall and for how long.... they don't even THINK about those who may have a limited time to hunt. I doubt if MOST of them do it to be malicious. I, for instance, am not privy to everyone else on this site's general schedual or when they are most likely to be hunting the AP.

 

SO to call it a malicious behavior... IMO, of course, is a little harsh.

 

THOUGHTLESS, perhaps... but out and out malicious like some of the viewbombing that goes on, I DOUBT it.

There IS a difference between the two.

 

Inn the most recent case, for example, I believe that the eggs stayed on the AP MUCH longer than the breeder intended as fewer people than normal were picking them up.

 

@ Olympe- I got that after reading the OP a bit more carefully.

 

 

 

Sorry, I should have quoted the post then above mine where someone was saying something to the effect that they didn't mind if people bred scrolls-full of dragons people don't want specifically to fill the AP with unwanted dragons to spoil hunting because they'd run out and therefore thought breeding to jam the AP was a good thing for the ratios and so was giving them kudos for it.

 

I certainly didn't mean to imply that mass-breeding was usually done out of malice and in my post previous to this, was thankful that there were relatively few capable of that sort of petty behavior.

 

But if people congratulate people for doing things to spoil other people's hunting (or whatever other nastiness) and term it a good thing, making behaviours intended to foul up people normalized and 'acceptable', this is not a good direction.

 

 

We're out of cream/milk and I can't drink coffee/tea without it, as it upsets my stomach, so bear with me, lol.

 

I'll wake up eventually.

 

 

 

Edit: also, this may or may not have been a hint that I hadn't meant that the majority of mass-breeding was malicious; from within the post quoted: ... Some of the recent organized mass breedings have been designed to provide a nicely lineaged variety of dragons, increasing the odds that some people would want whatever was produced, which is something vastly different than flooding the AP with a messy-lineaged, useless-to-most batch of the same breed(s). ...

 

Until my room-mate, who seems to have gone out, comes back with cream shortly so we can caffeinate, I may have trouble telling. I hate mornings which continue into afternoons!

 

But I benefit from people breeding lovelies into the AP and appreciate their thoughtfulness, so I'm certainly not objecting to that, especially as one who has mass-bred (or attempted to, lol,) BSA dragons into the AP, although I've been off breeding for some time and lately have had a lot of no/wrong results in any event, other than from my trusty White lineages.

 

I'm just not impressed with the few who DO try to block up the AP out of sheer nastiness and don't want that sort of thinking encouraged.

 

 

 

Re-edit: was not referring to one of C-4s posts, btw, but somebody issuing congratulations regarding blocking the AP for 8 hours.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Jazeki]

But if people congratulate people for doing things to spoil other people's hunting (or whatever other nastiness) and term it a good thing, making behaviours intended to foul up people normalized and 'acceptable', this is not a good direction.

 

 

As I said earlier, I'm meh about this suggestion as I go and do other things if I find the AP and cave less than desirable.

 

However, I do think that calling mass breeding "malicious" or generally complaining about it as being something negative that spoils or attacks another user's style of game play is more likely to encourage any sort of intentionally negative behavior than talking about its positive outcomes will--much like complaining about view bombing ruining batches of eggs tends to encourage even more view bombing.

[Syphoneira]

As I said earlier, I'm meh about this suggestion as I go and do other things if I find the AP and cave  less than desirable.

 

However, I do think that calling mass breeding "malicious" or generally complaining about it as being something negative that spoils or attacks another user's style of game play is more likely to encourage any sort of intentionally negative behavior than talking about its positive outcomes will--much like complaining about view bombing ruining batches of eggs tends to encourage even more view bombing.

 

 

Lol, my lack of coffee is evidently a brain-threatening condition.

 

My original comment failed to quote a now seemingly missing comment which seemed to imply that the person wished to congratulate a mass breeder who produced an 8-hour wall of the same dragon, and potentially encourage people breeding even if specifically to foul up other people's hunting and I feared that such encouragement of the nastiness - not of mass breeding itself - would increase other nastiness.

 

 

Edit: seriously needz cofffffeeeee!

 

Edit: coffee IV, please!

 

 

Re-edit: was not referring to one of C-4s posts, btw, but somebody issuing congratulations regarding blocking the AP for 8 hours.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Syphoneira

[linda3.0]

this would be a really good change

[cyradis4]

As I said earlier, I'm meh about this suggestion as I go and do other things if I find the AP and cave less than desirable.

 

However, I do think that calling mass breeding "malicious" or generally complaining about it as being something negative that spoils or attacks another user's style of game play is more likely to encourage any sort of intentionally negative behavior than talking about its positive outcomes will--much like complaining about view bombing ruining batches of eggs tends to encourage even more view bombing.

This.

 

I know someone who has been inspired to do just this: hoard a blocker just so they can mass breed it and irritate everyone, since a certain segment is blowing this incident ALL out of proportion. Honestly? I feel the same urge myself. People are being absolutely RIDICULOUS, and not the mass breeders! It was ONE incident, caused by a confluence of multiple factors, and even still.... lasted for just 10 hours! And it has set off multiple flame wars and this thread.

 

Seriously people.... It was one incident! IF it happened every other day, where the AP was blocked for 10 hours, I could see the point of getting irritated. I have been an AP hunter for years, ever since the AP stopped blocking the Boimes, and I have NEVER seen another non-Holiday incu-hatchable wall stay around nearly this long. Some walls that were above 5d stuck around for a couple hours, but once it hit 5d... it vanished. And the only reason this stayed was most of the heavy hitter wall-clearers were in the Biomes for once.

This incident was an anomaly, and I am FIRMLY against any sort of change or over-reaction until its been proven that its going to happen multiple times a week.

 

I have already explained, at length multiple times, with examples garnered from years of experience, why it WON'T happen every week. Don't believe me? Then try it yourself. You'll find, a few months down the road, that I am indeed right.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Not-Jeff]

I personally would have liked the mass breeding if I'd had more egg slots open. If I had wanted to, I would have been able to pick up a breed I only have one of.

I understand most people being annoyed, but from what I've heard, this is an uncommon thing to happen, so implementing a whole new system seems a bit over the top.

[Syphoneira]

This.

 

I know someone who has been inspired to do just this: hoard a blocker just so they can mass breed it and irritate everyone, since a certain segment is blowing this incident ALL out of proportion. Honestly? I feel the same urge myself. People are being absolutely RIDICULOUS, and not the mass breeders! It was ONE incident, caused by a confluence of multiple factors, and even still.... lasted for just 10 hours! And it has set off multiple flame wars and this thread.

 

Seriously people.... It was one incident! IF it happened every other day, where the AP was blocked for 10 hours, I could see the point of getting irritated. I have been an AP hunter for years, ever since the AP stopped blocking the Boimes, and I have NEVER seen another non-Holiday incu-hatchable wall stay around nearly this long. Some walls that were above 5d stuck around for a couple hours, but once it hit 5d... it vanished. And the only reason this stayed was most of the heavy hitter wall-clearers were in the Biomes for once.

This incident was an anomaly, and I am FIRMLY against any sort of change or over-reaction until its been proven that its going to happen multiple times a week.

 

I have already explained, at length multiple times, with examples garnered from years of experience, why it WON'T happen every week. Don't believe me? Then try it yourself. You'll find, a few months down the road, that I am indeed right.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

Just to mention, (from the coffee-deprived peanut section who's having trouble writing clearly,) my comment was not in regard to one of your posts, but regarding someone who seemed to be, probably inadvertently, encouraging nastiness toward what was felt to be a good end.

 

The issue I was addressing, or attempting to, (with no cofffffeeeee!!!!!) was not mass-breeding but a concern I had with what appeared to be someone encouraging nastiness, which I feel is a bad direction to go in.

 

 

Edit: also, I've been lucky enough to have missed these flame-wars, but I can't think why anyone would be upset over this.

 

Seems to me that some people have pointed out a problem they've had and are discussing it.

 

While my personal feeling may be that I'd rather not advocate messing with the AP mechanics for something which which does seem to be a rare occurrence, if some people are going to react childishly enough to try to foul up the AP as a result of people discussing concerns about such a problem, some such fix may become necessary as a result.

 

If too many people can't self-regulate, that's when regulations DO become necessary to protect everyone else, and while I have sympathy for those with limited playing time and concerns about having this spoilt for them, I'd personally really rather not have to have eggs from breeders stacked so that lineages come out at separate times, making them more difficult to pick through and increasing the likelihood of missing out on a perfect bred unrelated mate from that same breeder, or another nice one of the same type, or whatever.

 

The forums are for over-13s, surely old enough that they can deal with people discussing concerns without getting all upset at the very idea, lol.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Jazeki]

Syph, I looked through and couldn't find the post that you're referring to in this thread. Maybe it's in the other "do mass breedings deserve hate" thread. Also, I was making more of a general observation as the negative commentary seems to be had in more than one thread right now.

 

I missed the neo wall and the explosion of discussions concerning it strangely enough, but the comments that still remain seem to be making a problem where there isn't one as there have been long-lasting walls of purple dorsals, flamingos, and other breeds in the past and I don't recall so much disdain that an option like this one needs to be seriously considered.

[HeatherMarie]

I honestly don't think this is needed. Like, at all.

 

That neo wall only lasted a few hours, and really, walls are rare nowadays. I remember when the *only* things you saw in the AP were vines and blacks. We could've used this suggestion then! But now it's just... not needed. I hardly ever see walls in the AP anymore. And I AP hunt for literally like 3 hours every single day.

[Syphoneira]

Syph, I looked through and couldn't find the post that you're referring to in this thread. Maybe it's in the other "do mass breedings deserve hate" thread. Also, I was making more of a general observation as the  negative commentary seems to be had in more than one thread right now. 

 

I missed the neo wall and the explosion of discussions concerning it strangely enough, but the comments that still remain seem to be making a problem where there isn't one as there have been long-lasting walls of purple dorsals, flamingos, and other breeds in the past and I don't recall so much disdain that an option like this one needs to be seriously considered.

 

 

 

 

 

Jazeki, the comment that worried me is long gone; I don't think the person realized that it came off as speaking approvingly of bad behaviour, probably just bad phrasing - much like mine.

 

I didn't want to seem to target anyone and being tired and fuzzy-headed, tried for some general comments, being sympathetic to concerns on both sides. Messed it up pretty badly, though, I'm afraid, had to go back and read, trying to figure out where the misunderstanding had occurred, mostly being me with NO COFFEE!

 

(Still have no cream for coffee, lol, but I'm trying instant hot chocolate mix in some - which oddly enough actually tastes rather funny, but which I hope will coat my stomach enough - and trying to get some caffeine to my brain, lol.)

 

 

Lol, I missed the whole thing, too, thank goodness; never saw the AP at that point and fortunately missed the thread you've referred to.

 

I was off desperately trying to catch new eggs, takes me all day and night to catch one or two, drat it!

 

 

[pinkgothic]

I don't mind the proposed suggestion. Since I rarely AP hunt it's unlikely to affect me, though.

 

Wasn't there something about stacking similar dragons by breed in the AP? (Like, 3x piles of Neotropical eggs, displaying the 3 lowest unique times) That might be a better choice, but then you have to consider how the site would decide which eggs show up first (time as default? But what about random by timestamp, example, one of the 40 dragons with 4 days 3 hours remaining?), if this would change during holidays and events (Stacks of Valentines? Halloweens? Or back to the wall for events only?), and if the stacks might end up just... not moving. At all.

 

The AP was stacked by breed for a while (lowest-time egg of breed on top; one slot per breed). It went away again for undisclosed reasons, though some people did dislike it because it no longer let them browse several eggs by breed. (There was probably also other feedback that I've forgotten about since.)

Edited July 7, 2015 by pinkgothic

[JavaTigress]

I don't mind the proposed suggestion. Since I rarely AP hunt it's unlikely to affect me, though.

 

 

 

The AP was stacked by breed for a while (lowest-time egg of breed on top; one slot per breed). It went away again for undisclosed reasons, though some people did dislike it because it no longer let them browse several eggs by breed. (There was probably also other feedback that I've forgotten about since.)

I actually think this would be sort of a neat idea.

 

IF it is actually as big an issue as some make it.

 

ALTHOUGH I am not too hot on the idea of not being able to browse through what eggs there are... though come to think of it, as it is NOW, all eggs of a given breed aren't necessarily visible, either.

It MIGHT have worked though, if clicking on the stack of eggs took you to a pile of JUST those.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Silverswift

[Ha-Ki]

I didn't really like the stacking by breed - it made it very hard to hunt for lineages, because the first visible slot of every stack would often be blocked by a messy that everyone was throwing back, and other eggs of the same breed would be stuck in the queue behind it.

 

Still not supporting any limitations to the AP, as I don't think it's needed.

[Syphoneira]

Actually, I believe that the Suggestion was for stacking by breeder, rather than breed, so that if someone decided to breed a scroll-full of messies, they wouldn't fill the AP and prevent any useful eggs from getting through.

 

The downside is, of course, that those breeding nice lineages would also have their eggs stacked and not available to pick through, which could also separate unrelated breeding pairs kindly bred for random gifting...

 

 

[Ha-Ki]

Yes, I know, but stacking by breed came up a few posts above mine as well, as TJ tried that before

 

The downside is, of course, that those breeding nice lineages would also have their eggs stacked and not available to pick through, which could also separate unrelated breeding pairs kindly bred for random gifting...

That is a very good point!

[Laugh]

As for how often.... I do not remember the last time someone blocked the AP for more than an hour or two,

I blocked the AP during Black Friday (planned them to appear on that date) for 5-6 hours (more likely 6) with my PB whites from 2g-7g and then bred remainer of the whites (CBs) that didn't have another CB White mate to CB Desipises. I don't recall how much I bred or how long it took me to breed. I know people were biting some eggs because I saw some offspring come out as vampire adults.

 

 

Anyways I'm against this. I would hate not being able to massbreed my whites whenever I reach a certain point of my collection or if something nice really happened and I wanted to massbreed my whites. And no, I do not breed them out to the AP with messy lineages.

 

Seeing as others addressed that mass breedings can help ratios, it can hurt it as well, but generally with the mass breeds I've seen a lot of commons/uncommons. I know AFTER I bred my whites I've been getting reports from people that have IOUs to me telling me, "After x release I haven't been seeing them lately", "I'd have more but I haven't seen whites in a while, they seem rarer", etc. As for me a few weeks ago I was hunting for CB Whites for an hour straight and only ended up getting 1 while netting 5 CB Magmas. After trading all the CB Magmas for CB White IOUs I had one IOUer (total 4) tell me that they were glad they did the IOU. While hunting they also caught multiple CB Trios/Rares while hunting for CB Whites.

 

I have been planning on breeding again, but after getting those messages from my IOU trades I refrained from doing so.

 

 

[Syphoneira]

Yes, I know, but stacking by breed came up a few posts above mine as well, as TJ tried that before

 

 

That is a very good point!

 

 

 

Just thought I'd mention that, mainly for anyone just coming in who might become confused, and the fact that some of us tend to breed things for the AP together, which may include our collections of pretty Bright Pink-based/checkered lineages and the like.

 

Pinks are among the Commons most likely to be snatched up, in great part for Influences, so if you find one pretty lineage of a type you particularly like and can use, you tend to wait for others to try to check them out, which is harder to do if they're hidden in a stack and being snapped up a few at a time, especially when wanted for other purposes as well.

 

Those are just my general preferences, of course, though others do share them.

 

I can empathize with both those having little time to play worrying about missing out on their chances to hunt because of an AP full of messy/the same unwanted eggs from someone mass-breeding them and with those, myself among them, concerned with potential issues from this sort of thing being implemented.

 

Unless the problem worsens, though, I should think that unlikely.

 

 

Edit: just want to say thanks to Saynna and people like her who take other members into consideration. My Whites are about my only reliable producers right now, and I do have some pretties I like to share with people, so it sucks when they don't produce, especially when people are waiting.

 

 

Re-edit: actually, the Suggestion doesn't limit breeding, just how many can appear on the AP at any one time.

 

The purpose is just to prevent the AP from losing variety for hunters when people do mass-breed.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Gryphonic]

All the interesting conversations happen when I'm at work/asleep... apologies for length. Some points bolded to break it up a bit.

 

I started playing only a little over a year and a half ago, and I remember walls. Lots of walls. It's why I never got into the habit of browsing the AP diligently; I was trained to associate it with solid walls of dorsal, mint green, black, canopy, tangar, neo*, etc. And most of then were horribly messy eggs.

 

That rarely happens anymore, thank goodness. Some breeds are always going to be more common sights in the AP, but there's a far greater variety now (and as frustrating as they were at the time, I suspect the previous massbreeds did have something to do with altering the ratios), and fewer of the eggs I do pick up are colossal messes. I found the neo wall to be slightly amusing, in a nostalgic 'heh, i remember those days...' fashion. I understand some people were very upset by the weekend neo wall, but I think a lot of DC was peroccupied with hunting xenos and the usual new release trading flurry. It was unfortunate timing for having many eggs slots open and nothing better to do than collect some incuhatchables, which is how walls disappear. Normally I would have been picking up a clutch of low-times just for the heck of it, since they wouldn't be taking up my egg slots for long. In hindsight I should have grabbed some to freeze for convenient scroll dividers.

 

A good point was brought up on the second page about Holiday breeding periods - those are always weird enough in the AP without asking TJ to change anything. I haven't been around longer than RAs, so I want access to all the bred holidays I can find. I have all the rest of the year to collect non-holidays. I would also oppose AP limits by breed in general. I have favorites breeds I'll pick up to see the lineage, and if I toss them back I would be very annoyed if they just sat there preventing me from looking for other lineages of the same dragon.

 

The last couple of massbreeds I was aware of, and for the first time participated in, were the ones for Vhale's raffle. And I found AP hunting during those to be very enjoyable! It covered a bunch of breeds, by a bunch of players, and bred over a period of days so the AP remained nicely varied. And I kept being frustrated at how easy it was to lock myself with lovely things - I checked off a surprising number of well-named checker mates from my wishlist just from the AP, and wound up with the materials for a lot of new ones to work on. I happily look forward to the next raffle now. (ALL THE RC CHECKERS! MINE!) Limiting the number of AP eggs shown by player would have been disappointing there because if I liked the lines one player was turning out I could pick up a lot of them together; if they'd been forcibly doled out over a period of hours I would have had to go do other things and miss out. I would only support that suggestion if the number was 'not the entire page', not '3-5 eggs'.

 

tl;dr: A large single-breed wall can be annoying, but they are pretty rare events these days and so I'm tolerant of them. I have other things I can do for a while if they happen. I personally see more drawbacks to altering the current AP system than benefits.

 

 

 

*I like the color green. I want more green dragons, but most of the existing ones are cave blockers. What an unfortunate association - I demand a rarish green! (.....eyeing my sketchpad and the Paint desktop icon. Cause I don't have enough ideas in progress already.)

Edited July 7, 2015 by Gryphonic

[RecycledHeart]

No support at all. How many times when I go to the ap do I see messy, inbred frankly ugly eggs. Do I think that people are stupid for breeding those? Yes, I do. But they have their full right as a player to do so because it doesn't break any game rules. Same with mass breeding. Every single user has the RIGHT to breed their entire scroll if they want to. The ap isn't something were only pretties are allowed . It's the trash can. We don't have the right to demand better stuff to be put into the trashcan. But some users are nice enough to give us pretties that way out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

All the complaints that happened because of the neo flood, I bet you (generalized you) that over half of them wouldn't exist if the wall had been of golds or xenowyrms.

 

This suggestion is just going to break something that isn't broken imo.

[VixenDra]

I think the main flaw of such system is a situation like this:

 

Sb mass breeds their eggs. First, they breed very common and common breeds, they breed and breed and finally they breed rares, including prizes. This way it may be slightly easier to ger rare eggs, because commons already grew in numbers. Idk, that could be the logic of such breeding order.

 

In such situaton rares and prizes may imply die. Because the cave-blocking breeds noone wants are blocking them from appearing on the AP more than ever.

 

But I also think this is the ONLY limitation I could possibly not be opposed to.

 

I personally own a pair/DC breed (not counting dinos, cheese and zombies; sometimes replacing lineages if it gets boring), so when I mass breed it's not harmful at all.

[Syphoneira]

No support at all. How many times when I go to the ap do I see messy, inbred frankly ugly eggs. Do I think that people are stupid for breeding those? Yes, I do. But they have their full right as a player to do so because it doesn't break any game rules. Same with mass breeding. Every single user has the RIGHT to breed their entire scroll if they want to. The ap isn't something were only pretties are allowed . It's the trash can. We don't have the right to demand better stuff to be put into the trashcan. But some users are nice enough to give us pretties that way out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

All the complaints that happened because of the neo flood, I bet you (generalized you) that over half of them wouldn't exist if the wall had been of golds or xenowyrms.

 

This suggestion is just going to break something that isn't broken imo.

 

 

 

Dunno if you noticed, but the suggestion is actually not to restrict breeding, merely the number of eggs appearing at one time on the AP of those bred by any particular scroll owner.

 

Going by what I've read, the people proposing and supporting this just want to discuss the possibility of ensuring that the entire AP isn't walled up with one breed/messies bred by a single scroll during the limited time they may available have to hunt, much as an earlier thread wanted to discuss the possibility of ensuring that their playing time wasn't overly restricted by extended periods of Holiday Walls during breeding season - the latter albeit no longer much of an issue going by last Christmas, with enough people by then aware of the ability to collect Holiday breds that walls were, from what I saw over a lot of time spent hunting, rarely formed and temporary, to say the least.

 

The AP Blocking is nowhere near as bad as it was, but it is a concern for some people, so we're discussing the pros and cons of the Suggestion.

[cyradis4]

The AP Blocking is nowhere near as bad as it was, but it is a concern for some people, so we're discussing the pros and cons of the Suggestion. 

I still find it amusing that a perfect storm situation caused by a very rare confluence of events sparked this tempest in a teapot.

 

I suspect this thread aims to solve a problem that exists only in theory.

 

Data seems to indicate that the vast majority of people who have abandoned eggs currently (that have not been picked up) would be entirely unaffected by this change.

 

I suppose this could be used as an argument both for and against this proposed change. On one hand, if it only applies to a few people, then it wouldn't really change much visibly about the AP, while purportedly improving one of its pain points.

On the other, being such a rare case means that it's potentially not worth the effort to implement and maintain (and protect against bitrot, work around, etc).

For those of you who missed this... TJ posted this on page 3. From my own experience.... I agree with his assesment. It is extremely rare for the AP to be blocked for more than an hour or so by one type of eggs when they are incu-hatchable, and the only reason it happened this time is because so many of the people who normally clear walls were in the Biomes, going after Xenos.

 

When this situation, with the AP being blocked for 6+ hours, happens every single week, then I'd think this might be worthwhile. But this doesn't happen every week. It doesn't even happen every month. In fact, I'd bet its been over a year since a non-Holiday wall of this length happened.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited July 8, 2015 by cyradis4

[JavaTigress]

I still find it amusing that a perfect storm situation caused by a very rare confluence of events sparked this tempest in a teapot.

 

 

For those of you who missed this... TJ posted this on page 3. From my own experience.... I agree with his assesment. It is extremely rare for the AP to be blocked for more than an hour or so by one type of eggs when they are incu-hatchable, and the only reason it happened this time is because so many of the people who normally clear walls were in the Biomes, going after Xenos.

 

When this situation, with the AP being blocked for 6+ hours, happens every single week, then I'd think this might be worthwhile. But this doesn't happen every week. It doesn't even happen every month. In fact, I'd bet its been over a year since a non-Holiday wall of this length happened.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Yeah, it really was sort of an odd set of circumstances. that led to it.

 

In fact.... I haven't HEARD of a wall in the AP lasting as long as that in some time.

 

It makes me wonder when the last time we had such a sustained AP wall was.... of ANY given breed. IF anyone knows.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Silverswift