Limit AP eggs by breeder

[cyradis4]

While it won't restrict it, I think that it DOES st a bad precedent, by catering to those people who thing they are entitled to good things in the AP.

 

Why I think that:

- A mass-breeding lasting for more than an hour is very rare, so the "problem" this is fixing is extremely rare

- By implementing it, TJ is saying that the AP is not the garbage heap its always been, its a "store" for used things

 

I remember the previous attempts at having 1 of any breed showing, or 1 egg from a breeder showing. I was playing in the AP during that whole mess. He tried those out because the AP was blocking the Biomes ALL the time, rendering the game almost unplayable for a huge percentage of the player base. And not just once a week, or once a month, or once a year. ALL the time! 90% of the time it seemed, the Biomes were blocked by the AP. And it was getting worse! Those attempts were an attempt to get the number of eggs showing in the AP down below 30, so the Biomes could be used again. More of the time, at least. They didn't get the job done, and people didn't like them then.

 

The solution eventually decided on, of not blocking the Biomes and letting the AP do as it would, revolutionized the game in a way that.... Those old days seemed like the dark ages, and then... The light came! I was there, and I remember.

 

If the blockage happened all the time, like was happening with the Biomes, then I'd feel a LOT differently about this. But that incident was literally a once-in-a-blue-moon occurrence, and people have been creating a tempest in a teapot, which to be honest... Still has me laughing.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[AnanoKimi]

There is no reason or need for this suggestion. The AP block of Neos was short lived and a very rare occurance. If this is really eing considered, then only apply it to holiday breedings, bot regular breeding. Why? holiday walls block regular AP eggs for days not measly hours thats why.

 

Regular AP breeding create short lived walls that last a few minutes to at most maybe an hour. The neo wall was a very odd occurance that happened from certain circumstances being met to create it. So this suggestion should not apply to every day breeding.

 

So no support for every day breeding but I will be more than happy to support if this is set up for only holiday breeding.

[Syphoneira]

There is no reason or need for this suggestion. The AP block of Neos was short lived and a very rare occurance. If this is really eing considered, then only apply it to holiday breedings, bot regular breeding. Why? holiday walls block regular AP eggs for days not measly hours thats why.

 

Regular AP breeding create short lived walls that last a few minutes to at most maybe an hour. The neo wall was a very odd occurance that happened from certain circumstances being met to create it. So this suggestion should not apply to every day breeding.

 

So no support for every day breeding but I will be more than happy to support if this is set up for only holiday breeding.

 

 

 

Yeah, that was a rare occurrence, but a comment on here stated that the writer knew of someone so enraged by the discussion of this that they'd started hoarding blockers to try to plug up the AP for everyone else, so if it does get bad because of people like that, we might need something like this, so discussion for possible future use would be good.. For normal eggs, 10 showing per breeder at any one time seems reasonable to me, although I have to admit that I'm not big on the idea of messing with the AP mechanisms unless absolutely necessary...

 

 

I dunno if that this would make much difference to any walls we might still get on Holidays, actually, (by last Christmas, enough people knew to show up for breds that any solid walls were very brief during the week I was frantically hunting them, and I seem to recall that there were many times where few or no Holiday eggs showed) as probably most people don't breed more than 10 Holidays all at one time during the week, (I don't, usually, at any rate, and am very often breeding specifically for people or saving the best of what's not spoken for in case somebody wants something, so actually on the last breeding day, I *might* wind up breeding more than 10 and having the rest stack beneath, Hollies and all, if any remain unbred, but otherwise, probably not,) so the odds are that everything bred by most breeders would all show at once anyway and likely be snapped up instantly unless messy. Although that could result in left-over messies bred by multiple people blocking the useful Holidays and nicely lineaged eggs coming up one at a time, with only the fastest having a crack at any, something which could happen anyway.

[AnanoKimi]

I personally find the alternative of dropping the hatching time of any egg that hits the AP to like 4 days xx hours much better than blocking how many bred eggs reach the AP and such. By dropping their times they become incuhatchable, as such they are picked up, once picked up they are raised, gifted, or re-released to the AP. That solves many issues.

[Syphoneira]

I personally find the alternative of dropping the hatching time of any egg that hits the AP to like 4 days xx hours much better than blocking how many bred eggs reach the AP and such. By dropping their times they become incuhatchable, as such they are picked up, once picked up they are raised, gifted, or re-released to the AP. That solves many issues.

 

 

 

Me, too! Even to just 5 days for Incuhatchables, although 4 days would clearly be better.

[cyradis4]

Yeah, that was a rare occurrence, but a comment on here stated that the writer knew of someone so enraged by the discussion of this that they'd started hoarding blockers to try to plug up the AP for everyone else, so if it does get bad because of people like that, we might need something like this, so discussion for possible future use would be good.. For normal eggs, 10 showing per breeder at any one time seems reasonable to me, although I have to admit that I'm not big on the idea of messing with the AP mechanisms unless absolutely necessary...

I do not think they are so "enraged" that they are doing it... I think they are enjoying the fireworks far too much and wanna see it again. I happen to know who it is, though its not me. I feel the same urge (down urge, down!). And the operative word here is "try". They won't succeed, not for long.

 

The reality of the Biomes means that.... *does calculations*

Assuming every pair breeds an egg...

Assuming it'll take at least 500 eggs to stop up the biomes.... (200 eggs last for less than an hour typically, so 500 gives you 2 or 3 hrs under normal circumstances)

Assuming you didn't pure-breed anything....

 

That means, 500 CBs minimum. That'll take.... 500 dragons * 2 days as eggs / 7 eggs per set (don't count hatchies time, because it won't prevent you from getting more).... So... That means 142 days. Or 5 months, more like. That of course assumes you already HAVE mates. Granted, if you trade really heavily, you can get those faster. People manage to get 100 Holidays by very careful trading and timing in a week, so.... It can be done sooner... IF you have the trade fodder and are willing to dedicate to it.

 

So, now you have your blockers. Your collecting has caused a spike in their numbers raised, so.... They won't breed quite as well. That first week, you come close to doubling that number. The week after that, and the week after that. Each week, the number of those blockers goes up by (normal numbers from Biomes / other breeders) + (your 500).

 

With that kinda attention? It won't be long before that blocker is not a blocker anymore. When the CCC competition first started up, collecting 2,000 Noctures in one month caused a down-turn in their ratios. They recovered a few months later. What do you think 2500 ish each month, every month, would do?

 

It wouldn't be more than a couple months before that "blocker" was heading toward "uncommon".

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Obscure_Trash]

I genuinely like mass breeding events. When I see a lot of one type of dragon in the AP, I light up! I go incubate dragons and stick them in ERs if I can, to make some room. I know that there's a good chance a lot of those eggs aren't messies and aren't cbs. They're nice/pretty lines, and I want in on that! And with none of the eggs hidden, I have a wider choice of what pretty I want to grab. If those get hidden behind a queue, that choice is effectively taken away from me (the same general problem I had with the suggestion to put same egg types in the AP through a queue), and I'll basically be stuck grabbing the first ones I see, not wanting to miss out on future pretties I'm not sure will show up.

 

So it depresses me any time I see users who come into mass breeding threads - even with multiple dragons listed - dreading when those fun lines with fun intent behind them hit the AP. It depresses me that we can't just play the way we want to when it doesn't really affect other's gameplay. Walls do not last all that long and even when they do - there is cave hunting, breeding, and trading that can be done to find what you want.

 

TJ said this doesn't really seem to affect many players, but I have to wonder what affect this would have on having incuhatchables in the AP when walls do go up. If those eggs aren't showing up, will time start ticking back up on eggs? It seems to have coincided with the raffle/s for breeding overly-common dragons, but we finally have an incuhatchable AP again and that's awesome. I'd hate to lose that.

 

BUT, as much as it saddens me and as much as mass breeding does fill me with joy, I know it has the opposite effect on others. For that reason and that reason only, I reluctantly support this compromise, even if I wish otherwise, if only because it doesn't actually affect how much a user can breed if they so desire.

[Obscure_Trash]

Bump.

[Pokemonfan13]

I think this is a reasonable balance between making sure there is a variety of things to collect on the AP but at the same time not limiting peoples actual ability to mass-breed. I don't do AP hunting much, but I can imagine the frustration of having the AP full of nothing but the same breed, and depending on the mass-breeder even essentially the exact same egg over and over. (for example if they collect CBs and just sent hundreds of PB 2nd gen eggs to the AP, would be pretty boring for anyone hunting rares or interesting longer lineages or even another common breed)

[Suzumiya]

I actually like repeated mass breeding. It's turned some eggs from cave blockers to uncommons that get snatched up almost immediately. I like how it affects the ratios. Sometimes, however, it can be annoying. I used to be able to trade a CB black for a low-gen metallic or a CB Nebula. Now, I can't even get a CB Stripe from a CB Black. Still, it's worth it to see boring cave blockers become desirable.

[SullenCat]

I'd forgotten this suggestion. Love it. Way to go, ADP! I would leave it as ONE egg per breeder. If compromising, one egg per breed and breeder.

 

I actually like repeated mass breeding. It's turned some eggs from cave blockers to uncommons that get snatched up almost immediately. I like how it affects the ratios.

Out of curiosity... can you provide examples and proof on how "it affects the ratios"?

Examples on how it "turned some eggs from cave blockers to uncommons" would be appreciated.

Edited January 18, 2016 by SullenCat

[blockEdragon]

I'd forgotten this suggestion. Love it. Way to go, ADP! I would leave it as ONE egg per breeder. If compromising, one egg per breed and breeder.

 

 

Out of curiosity... can you provide examples and proof on how "it affects the ratios"?

Examples on how it "turned some eggs from cave blockers to uncommons" would be appreciated.

Well the more that are owned by people the less that drop in the cave

so the more walls bred the more that are picked up

then less drop in the wild

[SullenCat]

Well the more that are owned by people the less that drop in the cave

so the more walls bred the more that are picked up

then less drop in the wild

Uh? Sorry, I do not understand. What are you saying?

[Bison]

No support.

 

People need to stop feeling entitled to amazing breeds, excellent lineages, perfect CBs, etc from the AP. Yes, you can find those things. No, its not all that rare in general. But people are expecting way too much from the Abandoned page. If you really want a CB, pick it up in the biomes. If you really want a lineage, breed or trade for it. If you don't want to go through random dropping full of messies, unpopular breeds, occasional walls, etc then why are you in the AP?

 

If my eggs were limited I would stop breeding rares and nice lineages to the AP. Like someone else mentioned I don't like that the change would send a message of the AP being for nice things and just generally having restrictions on it. I like that the AP is a crazy free for all. Maybe I'll find a CB Pygmy, a cool code, a gorgeous lineage, a G2 of something amazing, or a wall of a breed I love or never gave much thought to. The biomes are somewhat predictable to a degree but the AP could have almost anything in it.

 

There have been many times where I picked up an egg in the AP I never would've grabbed in the biomes or a gifting/trading thread. And this includes walls! They might be slightly more annoying to search (having to remember the codes of eggs you tossed back) but they're fun to see, sift through, and participate in for many members. Having to leave the AP for a couple hours maximum really isn't that big a deal. The AP will never be stocked 24/7 with things you personally (general you) are interested in. That's just not how it works or what its purpose is.

 

If restrictions are placed on mass breeding what's next? Messies? Lineage styles you (general) don't agree with? Its a game. Let people play however they want. If you don't like the freebies they dropped don't pick them up.

[SullenCat]

No support.

 

People need to stop feeling entitled to amazing breeds, excellent lineages, perfect CBs, etc from the AP. Yes, you can find those things. No, its not all that rare in general. But people are expecting way too much from the Abandoned page. If you really want a CB, pick it up in the biomes. If you really want a lineage, breed or trade for it. If you don't want to go through random dropping full of messies, unpopular breeds, occasional walls, etc then why are you in the AP?

 

If my eggs were limited I would stop breeding rares and nice lineages to the AP. Like someone else mentioned I don't like that the change would send a message of the AP being for nice things and just generally having restrictions on it. I like that the AP is a crazy free for all. Maybe I'll find a CB Pygmy, a cool code, a gorgeous lineage, a G2 of something amazing, or a wall of a breed I love or never gave much thought to. The biomes are somewhat predictable to a degree but the AP could have almost anything in it.

 

There have been many times where I picked up an egg in the AP I never would've grabbed in the biomes or a gifting/trading thread. And this includes walls! They might be slightly more annoying to search (having to remember the codes of eggs you tossed back) but they're fun to see, sift through, and participate in for many members. Having to leave the AP for a couple hours maximum really isn't that big a deal. The AP will never be stocked 24/7 with things you personally (general you) are interested in. That's just not how it works or what its purpose is.

 

If restrictions are placed on mass breeding what's next? Messies? Lineage styles you (general) don't agree with? Its a game. Let people play however they want. If you don't like the freebies they dropped don't pick them up.

Want to discuss entitlement? The suggestion has nothing to do with people feeling entitled to "to amazing breeds, excellent lineages, perfect CBs, etc from the AP". Eventually, from my point of view, it has a lot to do with people feeling entitled to control the AP for hours. Guess what, they should not. A single user should not be able to control the AP. Not for hours. Not for minutes.

Nobody wants to limit anybody for what concerns their breeding choices. Want to breed one thousand eggs? Who cares? Want to breed messies? Who cares?

Want to control the AP? NO. NO. NO. Nobody OWNS the AP. Nobody should be able to block it. Breed messies, have your fun. The suggestion would do nothing but to give everybody the chance to show off their eggs and give them a chance to be picked up. EVERYBODY. Not a single user that thinks he/she is entitled to.

[Obscure_Trash]

I prefer a 5 - 10 limit/queue over 1 because 5 - 10 is less than half the AP, which still leaves plenty of AP space for other breeder's dragons to show up. As well, if the limit is a little less limiting than 1, then perhaps massbreeding can still help bring down AP time a teeny tiny bit.

[Tawanda001]

How about something similar to the suggestion about adding a line to holiday walls? Say three rows are given over to mass bred eggs (by either breed or scroll) and two rows for the other random stuff? No idea if that would be a coding nightmare or what but it would give people that enjoy walls a mini wall of sorts, and those of us that don't like them would still have the ability to sort through other stuff.

[Fuzzbucket]

From time to time I mass breed my BSA dragons. People seem to like that. This would really annoy me, and I don't actually support it - frustrated though I was by the greenwing wall yesterday.

 

The walls don't take THAT long to dissipate. And I do have a life outside the cave. Seems to me TJ did at one point try out something like this and it didn't go well...

[DangerDragon]

No. Limiting how many eggs per breed or breeder is bad. There are millions of dragons and hundreds of thousands breeders. Now imagine if 10 000 breeders all bred 100 eggs each(1000000 eggs), and only 1 egg per breed/breeder showed, AP would be more "stale".

 

Or maybe I am not getting this, but I think there are simply too much dragons and breeders for this to be succesfull.

[Obscure_Trash]

I know users don't have numbers and this can be hard to work with for suggestions like this, but if you're going to spout some off, it'd be nice to explain where you got them. ^^;;

 

Now, this is from about half a year ago, so I don't know how much this has changed, but I'll bring this up again:

 

I suspect this thread aims to solve a problem that exists only in theory.

 

Data seems to indicate that the vast majority of people who have abandoned eggs currently (that have not been picked up) would be entirely unaffected by this change.

 

I suppose this could be used as an argument both for and against this proposed change. On one hand, if it only applies to a few people, then it wouldn't really change much visibly about the AP, while purportedly improving one of its pain points.

On the other, being such a rare case means that it's potentially not worth the effort to implement and maintain (and protect against bitrot, work around, etc).

 

It seems from the forum like massbreeding has gained a little more traction than it had at the time of TJ's post, so I'd be interested in more recent information, but I think the basic point will stand that the majority of people would be unaffected by this, even if massbreeding happens more often now. Keep in mind that massbreeding is a huge undertaking and can take hours to complete. It's not something that every breeder is going to do, much less do it every time they decide to breed if they breed fairly regularly.

 

From time to time I mass breed my BSA dragons. People seem to like that.

 

Having participated in several attempts to get BSA dragons to wall, I've never seen a wall of BSA dragons (although I suspect pebbles would wall just fine - purples and magis may get close, but usually people are talking about pinks and reds for BSA massbreeds), they just don't wall. The first ones get picked up while the rest are still waiting in the queue for more AP eggs to get picked up. So it's pretty darn unlikely that the breedings you're talking about here would be affected by this suggestion, anyway.

Edited January 18, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[purplehaze]

There are some people who routinely breed all their dragons of a particular breed to purposely create a wall for whatever reason, or just because they enjoy breeding their dragons and seeing them out there in other lineages, or . . . who knows why? Keep in mind that they can only possibly do it once a week, as their dragons are on cooldown after the effort. Such walls usually last no longer than one or two hours. That means it would take a lot of mass breeders coordinating efforts and timing to really control the AP.

 

It does seem that mass breeding is becoming a bit more common, but there is still a vast majority of time when the AP contains a wide variety of eggs. I really don't feel that the problem is serious enough to warrant making a change like this at this time.

[cyradis4]

I've made several attempts recently (me and others) to wall the AP and *despite* the high time in the AP, its failed. The most that happened was 20 ish Sunstones at once and from the time the first hit to the last vanished was less than an hour. And there were only 20 minutes ish where there more than half the AP was Sunstones. The Balloons suffered a worse fate (didn't even manage half the AP), and the Falconis and Green Wings didn't cause more than a brief surge. At no point in time was a true wall established (true wall being all but one or two eggs being the same breed), and the surges didn't last more than an hour.

 

I would REALLY like someone to *prove* to me with screenshots that the AP is being walled (blocked with all of one breed, or all but a couple eggs) for more than an hour each week.

 

I already know the answer, though. The high time in the AP right now is pretty much proof positive that such walls are not happening regularly.

 

So still no support. I've seen ZERO proof that mass-breeding regularly blocks the AP. In fact, all indications I've seen suggest the opposite: its a very, very rare occurrence that the AP gets blocked up with one breed for even an hour.

 

And I, personally, do not see ONE event that lasted all of 10 hrs just about 6 months ago as a reason to change the AP.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[Riverwillows]

I could be mistaken, but the walls I've seen recently, are eggs people want. They go fast, not like years ago when they'd wall for days straight. Usually walls go within hours. I don't think it's really a problem except on holidays but then everyone expects THEM to wall at that time.

[HeatherMarie]

I agree with everything cyradis4 has said.

 

I'm an AP hunter. I spend *hours* every single day refreshing the AP. And I haven't seen a true "wall" in months. Every so often one breed will take up maybe half the AP, but never the entire thing, and never for more then 30 minutes.

 

I just don't see "massbreeders" as a serious problem. And until someone gives me *proof* that AP "walls" last for a long time, that is going to remain my stance.

[PewterEyes]

The time I can spend on the site is very limited. If there is a wall on the AP, I'll just check again next Sunday. Sooner or later there will be a Sunday without walls. Right now there's a bunch of brown and dark blue eggs and I do not want them. In the meantime... there are other gaming sites.

Edited January 19, 2016 by PewterEyes